On the commercial front, I was amused that Google has learned the music lesson from Apple: nice simple upbeat/rom tune with images edited to the beat. On the down side, the carpet didn't match the drapes, so to speak. The images were too "techy" and complicated for the simplicity of the music. Plus, they threw in everything but the kitchen sink. Edit, please. Apple has always known that less is more. Google is still learning.
LOL! Fat chance. Google is the kind of company that hires someone to navigate the morass of negotiating across a dozen teams which one of forty-three shades of blue to use, but then they give the job to an engineer or project manager who doesn't have a artistic bone in their body.
Edit: To be fair, that's a lot to ask of people who can't cook their own meals or do their own laundry.
bugs are concepts, they aren't issued. So when you say "greedy buggers in suits" i don't think you even know how apple's products works. If you think there are bugs, using something else. Bottom line. If you think they are good, and they don't include the bug, buy them. "don't have a solution", you know why? No human is perfect, while there are humans, there will always be bugs, even in eggs. Good can't come down and program for us, in heaven, so we have to do it until we get to heven. I know apples is not good, and it's chauvinistic that you would say he is.
Bugs are concepts, they aren't issued. So when you say "greedy buggers in suits" I don't think you even know how apple's products works. If you think there are bugs, using something else. BOTTOM LINE. If you think they are good, and they don't include the bug, buy them. "Don't have a solution", you know why? No human is perfect, while there are humans, there will always be bugs, even in eggs. Good can't come down and program for us, in heaven, so we have to do it until we get to heven. I know Apples is not good, and it's chauvinistic that you would say he is.
I think we have been hacked by an alien life form trying to appear human.
This forum has a much higher average intelligence and lower troll tolerance than other apple sites such as the garbage that passes off as discussion at the lamentable macrumors forums.
thats so funny it hurts, please tell me you're serious
I am sure that all the stuff from Apple can and will continue to be JailBroken. But I think Apple has finally realized that there is some benefit in letting loose of this crowd.
I believe that with the AppleTV, Apple will let anything go as far as this is concerned. They will no longer be governed by anyone such as the Cell Carriers.
I even believe that Apple will give up on some of the consideration that they have had in protecting
all the content and even phone providers. Now with all the contenders in this new TV content,
Apple understands that in the end everyone will be offered all the same content from everybody.
It might take a different type of Content Provider to loosen up to start showing some 'cojones'. I
think it might even take a Woman to show all the 'old farts' how to do it right. Come on Oprah, open up your new Network to Apple. Let them put their new iAd ads to do the advertising on your shows. Remember a % of the people just see the Super Bowl for the halftime commercials. I can assure you that these Apple commercials that they are taking so long to produce will be the new way of attracting an interested crowd.
Let the Google's, Roku's and the rest keep trying to do things the old way.
Apple and especially Steve Jobs is tired of waiting for everything to happen on someone else's timetable. I am sure after Jobs saw his life on the balance, he said to himself. "No more. We have to take the Tiger by the hand and lead. The Carriers, the Networks, the Internet as we know it will never get to where I want to see it before I leave this Place".
Don't you think ATT is not to worried about Apple will be available for anyone else? After all
Apple is gonna flood the Market with FREE VideoPhone coverage. Apple also did not want to make any waves concerning the White Spaces that the FCC freed up. Let everyone know that Google, Microsoft, and the others are interested in giving us this openness.
But Apple is probably way ahead of everybody else as far as what we will ACTUALLY be able to do with it.
ALL the other guys will be giving things away. Apple can discount all of their offerings and still become the biggest Market Cap company in the world. Everybody else seems to have forgotten
that making money has to be a part of the equation.
thats so funny it hurts, please tell me you're serious
Please tell me you are trying to be ironic. Oh, yes macrumors forums are garbage, and this forum has infinitely more intelligent posting and infinitely less trolls.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko
* at least Ars spent half their review commenting on it being 300% smaller ...
The original AppleTV was easily Jailbroken. Erica Sadun wrote a video player app that I modified to play (stream) old movies from the web -- there are thousands of free movies on the web.
There was a lot of interest in Jailbroken ATV... Until the iPhone was announced. That sucked the air out of the room.
The big difference this time is that we have a proven iOS SDK and boatload of talented, trained developers.
The new ATV is a blank sheet of paper for Apple and/or Jailbreakers.
.
For sure Dick, by unifying the platform with the rest of ios (and I think part of the delay had been due to their waiting to adopt an adequate enough arm and gfx chip, and fine tuning them) this is opening up the gates for all sorts of things. And it had been mentioned here too, by yourself I think, by Danny certainly that there was no other logical step than ios on the atv. Of course there were differences in expectations (if I remember correctly Dan thought of it as some kind of touch enabled streaming remote).
I think it's the last time we've seen the atv presented as "another hobby". The only thing I am wondering about is how powerful these arm chips can be in terms of the supporting console type games on the atv as well as various legacy or older media formats (or new incompatible ones). I am sure they scale up well and they are being very rapidly developed but how well will the handle really demanding gfx for a tv game, or say an .mkv or .xvid file seeing as these won't get the h.264 hardware acceleration.
As a third-party set top box using a different input than your CATV and with no tuner, Google TV with its myriad choices, many "monetized," and methods of accessing content plus other bells and whistles is way too complicated for 90% of consumers. it is literally for "hobbyists" (who may love it). a lot of consumers already get confused by just having 300 CATV channels and those On Demand services (that few use except for movie rentals).
but ... built in to your TV as planned by some OEM's, and integrated somehow with your single CATV input (if CATV allows) or at least with your tuner, it has better possibilities. IF they can keep it simple somehow. and even more likely if the cable companies build Google TV into their STB's.
Google's style is to throw the kitchen sink at the wall and see what sticks (apology for mixed metaphoring). but i don't think that is going to work with TV for the large majority of households.
whereas Apple builds its product around the UI, and simplifies/dumbs it down to keep it "intuitive." Apple TV is a very good example of that.
it will be interesting to see which consumers prefer.
I'm trying to objectively look at the items announced...
* Turner Broadcasting has been hard at work optimizing some of their most popular websites for viewing on Google TV, including TBS, TNT, CNN, Cartoon Network and Adult Swim, available anytime through Google TV.
- What would Turner's motive be in dealing exclusively with Google instead of Apple? I don't see one, and believe that any such content will be available through Apple as well.
No net advantage
* NBC Universal has collaborated with Google TV to bring CNBC Real-Time, an application that allows you to track your favorite stocks and access news feeds while enjoying the best financial news from CNBC directly on the TV screen.
- Big 'nothing' here. CNBC Real-Time has been available on iOS all along, and CNBC only offers real-time streaming of the actual network via its crappy CNBC+ service... (Windows Media only.)
No net advantage
* HBO will bring access to hundreds of hours of programming to Google TV with HBO GO. Authenticated subscribers will soon be able to access all of their favorite HBO content on-demand in an enhanced website for Google TV.
- If I already subscribe to HBO, why would I need to insert a GoogleTV into the stream to... what? Time shift? DVR does that, as does OnDemand.
Watch on my phone? I supposed, but hardly a killer app.
No net advantage
* NBA has built NBA Game Time, an application that lets you follow game scores in real-time and catch up on the latest highlights from your favorite team in HD.
- Again, NBA has no more incentive to support Google over Apple than does Turner.
No net advantage
My personal bet is that Apple will think things through better than Google, and not just throw spaghetti at the wall and call it beta.
we're not there yet...but anyone who thinks the 60" HDTV Flat screen in the living room, will NOT be the center of all things digital in the household in the very near future is sorely mistaken.
Interesting except we have to share the HDTV with mum/ dad/ wife/ husband/ girlfriend/ boyfriend/ sibling.
But maybe I'm old school, I still think of the teevee being in the living room where the family gathers to watch all on one TV.
Changing though, dad has a 22" which he uses for watching downloads and I have a 21" to dock my Macbook Alu to.
I do take my iPad down to the living room to do stuff while watching live sports on the 46" HDTV.
(For the record I live on the second floor of the house not the basement )
Man, TV in the USA is so complicated. GoogleTV will gain some traction but I don't know if it will dominate. AppleTV will gain some traction but again I don't know if it will dominate.
Now that's funny...Made me laugh! Good points! And glad you're not relegated to the basement!
LOL I'm in Asia at the moment so I get away with being 30+ and living with my parents.
My neighbour has his nuclear family plus his dad, mother in law and sister in law in the same house. Our houses are not big, but I'm not talking the slums here. They like cramming families together in this part of the world...
Man, TV in the USA is so complicated. GoogleTV will gain some traction but I don't know if it will dominate. AppleTV will gain some traction but again I don't know if it will dominate.
Right. You have Cable companies which are comprised of regional operators...so no uniformity there.
then you have the "Networks" ABC. NBC and CBS which they sell their programming to "Affiliates"
The Networks are now parts of big media companies that own and create content such as movies.
No wonder Jobs finds dealing with all of them difficult! They all don't want to let go of what little control they think they have!
Mixed in with that you have the two Satellite TV companies which I'm not a big fan of.
This forum has a much higher average intelligence and lower troll tolerance than other apple sites such as the garbage that passes off as discussion at the lamentable macrumors forums. So I will stoop one last time to answer this, and let's end it here, and you can say anything you want about google tv then: Services and products are judged not based on specs or how they run in a demo but in actual usage. I feel silly even having to point this out. The greatest demo on the globe, the one that will run and answer the god, universe, and afterlife questions can't be compared with even a fart app simply by virtue of it not being available to use. It can be exciting -and you sound as excited for gtv as you would for the aforementioned demo- to know of such a forthcoming product to some, it can be uninteresting to others how are more aware of the difference between demo and actual product, but open to comparison to an existing product and service it's not. As soon as it ships and people use we will be able to compare.
It's no different than when Apple demos a new product and a lot of people get excited and start saying it's better than anything that's out there, line up and buying it on the first day of release without any hands on time on the device.
Okay.. Fair enough. A few GTV devices will be out this month and a real comparison can be made. I'm debating on getting an ATV or GTV but I'll more than likely get a GTV using my iPhone or iPad as a remote control.
I'm sure AI will post a review article when the first GTV comes out and then we'll come back here and debate which is better.
Comments
On the commercial front, I was amused that Google has learned the music lesson from Apple: nice simple upbeat/rom tune with images edited to the beat. On the down side, the carpet didn't match the drapes, so to speak. The images were too "techy" and complicated for the simplicity of the music. Plus, they threw in everything but the kitchen sink. Edit, please. Apple has always known that less is more. Google is still learning.
LOL! Fat chance. Google is the kind of company that hires someone to navigate the morass of negotiating across a dozen teams which one of forty-three shades of blue to use, but then they give the job to an engineer or project manager who doesn't have a artistic bone in their body.
Edit: To be fair, that's a lot to ask of people who can't cook their own meals or do their own laundry.
The best way to temper demand for a competitors product is to ship your own, better version
when your competitor ships such a limited, waste of space*, product - there is no rush
* at least Ars spent half their review commenting on it being 300% smaller ...
bugs are concepts, they aren't issued. So when you say "greedy buggers in suits" i don't think you even know how apple's products works. If you think there are bugs, using something else. Bottom line. If you think they are good, and they don't include the bug, buy them. "don't have a solution", you know why? No human is perfect, while there are humans, there will always be bugs, even in eggs. Good can't come down and program for us, in heaven, so we have to do it until we get to heven. I know apples is not good, and it's chauvinistic that you would say he is.
please read the post i was responding to.
Bugs are concepts, they aren't issued. So when you say "greedy buggers in suits" I don't think you even know how apple's products works. If you think there are bugs, using something else. BOTTOM LINE. If you think they are good, and they don't include the bug, buy them. "Don't have a solution", you know why? No human is perfect, while there are humans, there will always be bugs, even in eggs. Good can't come down and program for us, in heaven, so we have to do it until we get to heven. I know Apples is not good, and it's chauvinistic that you would say he is.
I think we have been hacked by an alien life form trying to appear human.
I think we have been hacked by an alien life form trying to appear human.
I am very confused as well.
This forum has a much higher average intelligence and lower troll tolerance than other apple sites such as the garbage that passes off as discussion at the lamentable macrumors forums.
thats so funny it hurts, please tell me you're serious
I believe that with the AppleTV, Apple will let anything go as far as this is concerned. They will no longer be governed by anyone such as the Cell Carriers.
I even believe that Apple will give up on some of the consideration that they have had in protecting
all the content and even phone providers. Now with all the contenders in this new TV content,
Apple understands that in the end everyone will be offered all the same content from everybody.
It might take a different type of Content Provider to loosen up to start showing some 'cojones'. I
think it might even take a Woman to show all the 'old farts' how to do it right. Come on Oprah, open up your new Network to Apple. Let them put their new iAd ads to do the advertising on your shows. Remember a % of the people just see the Super Bowl for the halftime commercials. I can assure you that these Apple commercials that they are taking so long to produce will be the new way of attracting an interested crowd.
Let the Google's, Roku's and the rest keep trying to do things the old way.
Apple and especially Steve Jobs is tired of waiting for everything to happen on someone else's timetable. I am sure after Jobs saw his life on the balance, he said to himself. "No more. We have to take the Tiger by the hand and lead. The Carriers, the Networks, the Internet as we know it will never get to where I want to see it before I leave this Place".
Don't you think ATT is not to worried about Apple will be available for anyone else? After all
Apple is gonna flood the Market with FREE VideoPhone coverage. Apple also did not want to make any waves concerning the White Spaces that the FCC freed up. Let everyone know that Google, Microsoft, and the others are interested in giving us this openness.
But Apple is probably way ahead of everybody else as far as what we will ACTUALLY be able to do with it.
ALL the other guys will be giving things away. Apple can discount all of their offerings and still become the biggest Market Cap company in the world. Everybody else seems to have forgotten
that making money has to be a part of the equation.
thats so funny it hurts, please tell me you're serious
Please tell me you are trying to be ironic. Oh, yes macrumors forums are garbage, and this forum has infinitely more intelligent posting and infinitely less trolls.
* at least Ars spent half their review commenting on it being 300% smaller ...
your point being?
The original AppleTV was easily Jailbroken. Erica Sadun wrote a video player app that I modified to play (stream) old movies from the web -- there are thousands of free movies on the web.
There was a lot of interest in Jailbroken ATV... Until the iPhone was announced. That sucked the air out of the room.
The big difference this time is that we have a proven iOS SDK and boatload of talented, trained developers.
The new ATV is a blank sheet of paper for Apple and/or Jailbreakers.
.
For sure Dick, by unifying the platform with the rest of ios (and I think part of the delay had been due to their waiting to adopt an adequate enough arm and gfx chip, and fine tuning them) this is opening up the gates for all sorts of things. And it had been mentioned here too, by yourself I think, by Danny certainly that there was no other logical step than ios on the atv. Of course there were differences in expectations (if I remember correctly Dan thought of it as some kind of touch enabled streaming remote).
I think it's the last time we've seen the atv presented as "another hobby". The only thing I am wondering about is how powerful these arm chips can be in terms of the supporting console type games on the atv as well as various legacy or older media formats (or new incompatible ones). I am sure they scale up well and they are being very rapidly developed but how well will the handle really demanding gfx for a tv game, or say an .mkv or .xvid file seeing as these won't get the h.264 hardware acceleration.
but ... built in to your TV as planned by some OEM's, and integrated somehow with your single CATV input (if CATV allows) or at least with your tuner, it has better possibilities. IF they can keep it simple somehow. and even more likely if the cable companies build Google TV into their STB's.
Google's style is to throw the kitchen sink at the wall and see what sticks (apology for mixed metaphoring). but i don't think that is going to work with TV for the large majority of households.
whereas Apple builds its product around the UI, and simplifies/dumbs it down to keep it "intuitive." Apple TV is a very good example of that.
it will be interesting to see which consumers prefer.
I'm trying to objectively look at the items announced...
* Turner Broadcasting has been hard at work optimizing some of their most popular websites for viewing on Google TV, including TBS, TNT, CNN, Cartoon Network and Adult Swim, available anytime through Google TV.
- What would Turner's motive be in dealing exclusively with Google instead of Apple? I don't see one, and believe that any such content will be available through Apple as well.
No net advantage
* NBC Universal has collaborated with Google TV to bring CNBC Real-Time, an application that allows you to track your favorite stocks and access news feeds while enjoying the best financial news from CNBC directly on the TV screen.
- Big 'nothing' here. CNBC Real-Time has been available on iOS all along, and CNBC only offers real-time streaming of the actual network via its crappy CNBC+ service... (Windows Media only.)
No net advantage
* HBO will bring access to hundreds of hours of programming to Google TV with HBO GO. Authenticated subscribers will soon be able to access all of their favorite HBO content on-demand in an enhanced website for Google TV.
- If I already subscribe to HBO, why would I need to insert a GoogleTV into the stream to... what? Time shift? DVR does that, as does OnDemand.
Watch on my phone? I supposed, but hardly a killer app.
No net advantage
* NBA has built NBA Game Time, an application that lets you follow game scores in real-time and catch up on the latest highlights from your favorite team in HD.
- Again, NBA has no more incentive to support Google over Apple than does Turner.
No net advantage
My personal bet is that Apple will think things through better than Google, and not just throw spaghetti at the wall and call it beta.
But time will tell.
we're not there yet...but anyone who thinks the 60" HDTV Flat screen in the living room, will NOT be the center of all things digital in the household in the very near future is sorely mistaken.
Interesting except we have to share the HDTV with mum/ dad/ wife/ husband/ girlfriend/ boyfriend/ sibling.
But maybe I'm old school, I still think of the teevee being in the living room where the family gathers to watch all on one TV.
Changing though, dad has a 22" which he uses for watching downloads and I have a 21" to dock my Macbook Alu to.
I do take my iPad down to the living room to do stuff while watching live sports on the 46" HDTV.
(For the record I live on the second floor of the house not the basement
With all its annoying shortcomings, ATV is still king.
Interesting except we have to share the HDTV with mum/ dad/ wife/ husband/ girlfriend/ boyfriend/ sibling.
But maybe I'm old school, I still think of the teevee being in the living room where the family gathers to watch all on one TV.
Changing though, dad has a 22" which he uses for watching downloads and I have a 21" to dock my Macbook Alu to.
I do take my iPad down to the living room to do stuff while watching live sports on the 46" HDTV.
(For the record I live on the second floor of the house not the basement
Now that's funny...Made me laugh! Good points! And glad you're not relegated to the basement!
Now that's funny...Made me laugh! Good points! And glad you're not relegated to the basement!
LOL I'm in Asia at the moment so I get away with being 30+ and living with my parents.
My neighbour has his nuclear family plus his dad, mother in law and sister in law in the same house. Our houses are not big, but I'm not talking the slums here. They like cramming families together in this part of the world...
Man, TV in the USA is so complicated. GoogleTV will gain some traction but I don't know if it will dominate. AppleTV will gain some traction but again I don't know if it will dominate.
Right. You have Cable companies which are comprised of regional operators...so no uniformity there.
then you have the "Networks" ABC. NBC and CBS which they sell their programming to "Affiliates"
The Networks are now parts of big media companies that own and create content such as movies.
No wonder Jobs finds dealing with all of them difficult! They all don't want to let go of what little control they think they have!
Mixed in with that you have the two Satellite TV companies which I'm not a big fan of.
This forum has a much higher average intelligence and lower troll tolerance than other apple sites such as the garbage that passes off as discussion at the lamentable macrumors forums. So I will stoop one last time to answer this, and let's end it here, and you can say anything you want about google tv then: Services and products are judged not based on specs or how they run in a demo but in actual usage. I feel silly even having to point this out. The greatest demo on the globe, the one that will run and answer the god, universe, and afterlife questions can't be compared with even a fart app simply by virtue of it not being available to use. It can be exciting -and you sound as excited for gtv as you would for the aforementioned demo- to know of such a forthcoming product to some, it can be uninteresting to others how are more aware of the difference between demo and actual product, but open to comparison to an existing product and service it's not. As soon as it ships and people use we will be able to compare.
It's no different than when Apple demos a new product and a lot of people get excited and start saying it's better than anything that's out there, line up and buying it on the first day of release without any hands on time on the device.
Okay.. Fair enough. A few GTV devices will be out this month and a real comparison can be made. I'm debating on getting an ATV or GTV but I'll more than likely get a GTV using my iPhone or iPad as a remote control.
I'm sure AI will post a review article when the first GTV comes out and then we'll come back here and debate which is better.