It's certainly a nice thought, but who is able to afford computers built in US? Well for one maybe steve himself, but who else?
Apple computers were originally built in the U.S. and while the market was a lot smaller than it is today and the machines were vastly more expensive (especially considering inflation), people who are working in decent jobs can afford such expenditures. People who aren't working or are working for around minimum wage can't afford even an inexpensive computer. So where do we want to be as a country?
We have to decide as a country whether we want really cheap goods and high unemployment or more expensive goods and lower unemployment. (The reality for many goods, especially brand name clothing, is that we're vastly overpaying anyway, considering the cost of manufacture. Calvin Klein (and others) gets $35 for a single pair of men's undershorts that probably costs about 60 cents to make? I used to buy fairly high-end American made luggage. They moved the factory to Indonesia and then they actually had the nerve to raise prices! It's not like the manufacturing jobs were replaced with higher-level design, marketing and IT jobs.
It's my belief that we're slowly committing suicide. Companies manufacture overseas to increase profits and stock prices, but we're creating a nation of people who can no longer afford to buy those products because they don't have decent jobs.
The reason Macs aren't well suited from a software side is that management tools don't scale that well for 10,000 nodes. The server OS is little more than pretty GUI tools for a unix back-end. Working with raw config files breaks the GUI, so why have it in the first place.
Most corporations with an operation of this size could and usually do write their own software to handle such limitations. There is no such thing as "plug and play" on this scale. Even if you go to Oracle or IBM for a "packaged" solution, they are still customized to fit the specific needs of the customer. Also, I'm sure Apple has a sizable IT department as well as a few developers and engineers laying around they could use.
It took several offers from Apple for the Fulbrights to consider moving. "They told us to put a price on it and we did," Kathy Fulbright told Bloomberg. Using the funds from the sale, the Fulbrights purchased a 49-acre piece of land with a 4,200-square-foot-house and a Jacuzzi, the report noted.
so they spent most of it on a ridiculous house? another american idiot that can't manage money.
Nah, they bought more property. It's the land that has value. The structures on the property ("improvements" is the tax assessor's term) aren't worth much. They went from one acre to 49.
I seriously doubt Apple did much negotiating. These are incentives put out by the local council to help bring companies in. This happens all the time to help lure people into an area to build it up.
Exactly. I recall that Honda got about $160 million in incentives to set up a $400 plant in Alabama; Mercedes-Benz, $250 million for a $1B investment, again in Alabama. All states do this. There are dozens and dozens of such examples.
The most egregious one? The Pfizer-CT deal in New London that led to the (ridiculous) Kelo decision of the US Supreme Court (now laid to waste thanks to Pfizer's abandoned plans)!
How is building a high tech data center help a distressed area?
I guess a few janitors would be in order, but wouldn't most workers be outside the area?
Attracts attention to the area; could promote housing and small business growth near and around the data center as well as bring in other large corporations.
Not really. They'll use whatever is required. Data centers don't need a lot horsepower, they are more about storage capacity and bandwidth.
However, I'd bet they use Xserves whenever and where ever possible.
Actually the new trend is more powerful servers with virtualzation. Xserves are not that powerful. In fact, power per 1U of rack space is better utilized with a 2U or larger server with multiple virtual servers. Better still are blades which Apple doesn't make. I'd guess they won't be using xserves much at all. Data centers these days is all about conserving energy costs.
Not really. They'll use whatever is required. Data centers don't need a lot horsepower, they are more about storage capacity and bandwidth.
However, I'd bet they use Xserves whenever and where ever possible.
I'm more inclined to think that they would cram the place full of Mac mini servers: the closest thing to a blade server that Apple makes. While idle, it allegedly draws 11 watts.
It's called "eating your own dog food." by apple using their own products, they can see how they work in real-world scenarios and gain insight on how Mac OS X Server needs to be improved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowededwookie
Why buy your own gear? Fill the place with your own gear, take the hit for lost sales, and use the datacentre to shut those idiots who say Macs can't do business up.
That's what I'd do. What better sales pitch could you have than a multi-million dollar datacentre that pushes data around as though it was an air hockey puck over datacentres that run Windows that push data around like it's a brick on a rubber mat?
A triumph for Apple, yes - they have exempted themselves from a large part of the taxation system, thus increasing their profit at the expense of the US citizen.
You don't buy anything from China, do you?
How is it at the expense of the US citizen?
Is the government giving them a check?
This is a common misconception by the "progressives". A tax break is the government letting someone keep THEIR money, not the government giving someone money. You describe it is almost as if the government is entitled to 100% of someones money and they should be thankful if the government lets them keep a single cent.
The fact of the matter is that cities, counties, states, and countries now compete for jobs. If a governing body wants to attract jobs (they cannot create private secure jobs) then they must give an incentive to a company over locating the business in another area. If it costs 20% less to do business in Texas than say California, a company is going to locate themselves in Texas.
Dear shareholders: We are asking you to sacrifice a wee bit of your mind-boggling return on AAPL so that NC can spend it on stuff in which you have neither control nor interest.
My willingness to "sacrifice" even more than I have already been compelled to "sacrifice" is zero. As in, zero.
Let me be clear: zero.
And that is why Americans are inferior to Europeans, who are willing to sacrifice a bit to embetter society as a whole. As a result, they have cheaper healthcare for all, potholes are unheard of, and everyone is happier (as proven by surveys and quality of life studies). Your greed inhibits both yourself and your country.
Quote:
Or, we'll just locate our data center in one of the many more places more eager to provide jobs for a few thousand people and tax revenue forever.
China, perhaps. I hear they're interested.
That statement is about as intelligent as the previous one. Please explain to us how a data center that serves the U.S. could be located halfway around the world without very significant latency. We're all listening.
This is a common misconception by the "progressives". A tax break is the government letting someone keep THEIR money, not the government giving someone money. You describe it is almost as if the government is entitled to 100% of someones money and they should be thankful if the government lets them keep a single cent.
Straw man argument. No progressive has ever said the government should take 100% or even close to it. (And before you say "Marx did" that's so last century. I'm talking modern-day era.)
But the social and infrastructure services that businesses require to operate are not free. You think the roads plow and repair themselves? For any business to want to operate tax-free is to freeload. Non-payment of taxes hurts the entire country. As such, tax evasion is downright anti-American. It gets really old hearing conservatives claim to be patriotic at the same time they try to withhold needed funds from the country they claim to love.
Give me a break. Why on earth would they use Linux? Linux is, by definition, a UNIX-like operating system. They have a FULL UNIX operating system. I'm not sure if you've heard about it. It's called Mac OS X. It is FULLY UNIX.
50 billion in the bank and they negotiate a reduction in property taxes and income taxes. Greed is good!
So I guess you don't understand how site placement and property negotiation works for the impacted counties.
(edited based on previous postings) the reasoning behind the incentivisation were well-covered. Let's look at what the DC brings to the area. First, because you are bringing well-paid professionals into the area, real estate prices will rise to reflect that surge in demand for housing in the area. With more people comes local pressure on resources like grocery stores, pharmacies, gas stations, entertainment, and other consumables. In addition to bringing jobs into the area, they are increasing demand for the aformentioned resources, which forces more hiring and expansion. This increases the general prosperity of the local economy, and allow health and human service provision to increase as well - better hospital service, and so on. If these are young professionals they are probably bringing families into the area, creating more property tax value for the local schools to budget with. It also means more tax money to support local infrastructure. So the roads get better repairs, power is more consistent, the local telco can finally get that new blade it's been needing. Again more jobs are created than just those listed for the plant itself. This is why politicians offer tax incentives to the company. Because what they offer is small compared to what is gained.
Comments
I guess a few janitors would be in order, but wouldn;t most workers be outside the area?
It's certainly a nice thought, but who is able to afford computers built in US? Well for one maybe steve himself, but who else?
Apple computers were originally built in the U.S. and while the market was a lot smaller than it is today and the machines were vastly more expensive (especially considering inflation), people who are working in decent jobs can afford such expenditures. People who aren't working or are working for around minimum wage can't afford even an inexpensive computer. So where do we want to be as a country?
We have to decide as a country whether we want really cheap goods and high unemployment or more expensive goods and lower unemployment. (The reality for many goods, especially brand name clothing, is that we're vastly overpaying anyway, considering the cost of manufacture. Calvin Klein (and others) gets $35 for a single pair of men's undershorts that probably costs about 60 cents to make? I used to buy fairly high-end American made luggage. They moved the factory to Indonesia and then they actually had the nerve to raise prices! It's not like the manufacturing jobs were replaced with higher-level design, marketing and IT jobs.
It's my belief that we're slowly committing suicide. Companies manufacture overseas to increase profits and stock prices, but we're creating a nation of people who can no longer afford to buy those products because they don't have decent jobs.
The reason Macs aren't well suited from a software side is that management tools don't scale that well for 10,000 nodes. The server OS is little more than pretty GUI tools for a unix back-end. Working with raw config files breaks the GUI, so why have it in the first place.
Most corporations with an operation of this size could and usually do write their own software to handle such limitations. There is no such thing as "plug and play" on this scale. Even if you go to Oracle or IBM for a "packaged" solution, they are still customized to fit the specific needs of the customer. Also, I'm sure Apple has a sizable IT department as well as a few developers and engineers laying around they could use.
It took several offers from Apple for the Fulbrights to consider moving. "They told us to put a price on it and we did," Kathy Fulbright told Bloomberg. Using the funds from the sale, the Fulbrights purchased a 49-acre piece of land with a 4,200-square-foot-house and a Jacuzzi, the report noted.
so they spent most of it on a ridiculous house? another american idiot that can't manage money.
Nah, they bought more property. It's the land that has value. The structures on the property ("improvements" is the tax assessor's term) aren't worth much. They went from one acre to 49.
I seriously doubt Apple did much negotiating. These are incentives put out by the local council to help bring companies in. This happens all the time to help lure people into an area to build it up.
Exactly. I recall that Honda got about $160 million in incentives to set up a $400 plant in Alabama; Mercedes-Benz, $250 million for a $1B investment, again in Alabama. All states do this. There are dozens and dozens of such examples.
The most egregious one? The Pfizer-CT deal in New London that led to the (ridiculous) Kelo decision of the US Supreme Court (now laid to waste thanks to Pfizer's abandoned plans)!
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=5927+S...249.97,,0,6.26
Or this tinyurl
http://tinyurl.com/39y6dhw
How is building a high tech data center help a distressed area?
I guess a few janitors would be in order, but wouldn't most workers be outside the area?
Attracts attention to the area; could promote housing and small business growth near and around the data center as well as bring in other large corporations.
'Linux' and 'Android.'
Not really. They'll use whatever is required. Data centers don't need a lot horsepower, they are more about storage capacity and bandwidth.
However, I'd bet they use Xserves whenever and where ever possible.
Actually the new trend is more powerful servers with virtualzation. Xserves are not that powerful. In fact, power per 1U of rack space is better utilized with a 2U or larger server with multiple virtual servers. Better still are blades which Apple doesn't make. I'd guess they won't be using xserves much at all. Data centers these days is all about conserving energy costs.
Not really. They'll use whatever is required. Data centers don't need a lot horsepower, they are more about storage capacity and bandwidth.
However, I'd bet they use Xserves whenever and where ever possible.
I'm more inclined to think that they would cram the place full of Mac mini servers: the closest thing to a blade server that Apple makes. While idle, it allegedly draws 11 watts.
Why buy your own gear? Fill the place with your own gear, take the hit for lost sales, and use the datacentre to shut those idiots who say Macs can't do business up.
That's what I'd do. What better sales pitch could you have than a multi-million dollar datacentre that pushes data around as though it was an air hockey puck over datacentres that run Windows that push data around like it's a brick on a rubber mat?
One thing is certain Steve Jobs would not have gone to the expense if there wasn't a payoff to be had.
A triumph for Apple, yes - they have exempted themselves from a large part of the taxation system, thus increasing their profit at the expense of the US citizen.
You don't buy anything from China, do you?
How is it at the expense of the US citizen?
Is the government giving them a check?
This is a common misconception by the "progressives". A tax break is the government letting someone keep THEIR money, not the government giving someone money. You describe it is almost as if the government is entitled to 100% of someones money and they should be thankful if the government lets them keep a single cent.
The fact of the matter is that cities, counties, states, and countries now compete for jobs. If a governing body wants to attract jobs (they cannot create private secure jobs) then they must give an incentive to a company over locating the business in another area. If it costs 20% less to do business in Texas than say California, a company is going to locate themselves in Texas.
Dear shareholders: We are asking you to sacrifice a wee bit of your mind-boggling return on AAPL so that NC can spend it on stuff in which you have neither control nor interest.
My willingness to "sacrifice" even more than I have already been compelled to "sacrifice" is zero. As in, zero.
Let me be clear: zero.
And that is why Americans are inferior to Europeans, who are willing to sacrifice a bit to embetter society as a whole. As a result, they have cheaper healthcare for all, potholes are unheard of, and everyone is happier (as proven by surveys and quality of life studies). Your greed inhibits both yourself and your country.
Or, we'll just locate our data center in one of the many more places more eager to provide jobs for a few thousand people and tax revenue forever.
China, perhaps. I hear they're interested.
That statement is about as intelligent as the previous one. Please explain to us how a data center that serves the U.S. could be located halfway around the world without very significant latency. We're all listening.
This is a common misconception by the "progressives". A tax break is the government letting someone keep THEIR money, not the government giving someone money. You describe it is almost as if the government is entitled to 100% of someones money and they should be thankful if the government lets them keep a single cent.
Straw man argument. No progressive has ever said the government should take 100% or even close to it. (And before you say "Marx did" that's so last century. I'm talking modern-day era.)
But the social and infrastructure services that businesses require to operate are not free. You think the roads plow and repair themselves? For any business to want to operate tax-free is to freeload. Non-payment of taxes hurts the entire country. As such, tax evasion is downright anti-American. It gets really old hearing conservatives claim to be patriotic at the same time they try to withhold needed funds from the country they claim to love.
But I don't know, I'm just another stupid American.
i think they will use liunx
Give me a break. Why on earth would they use Linux? Linux is, by definition, a UNIX-like operating system. They have a FULL UNIX operating system. I'm not sure if you've heard about it. It's called Mac OS X. It is FULLY UNIX.
50 billion in the bank and they negotiate a reduction in property taxes and income taxes. Greed is good!
So I guess you don't understand how site placement and property negotiation works for the impacted counties.
(edited based on previous postings) the reasoning behind the incentivisation were well-covered. Let's look at what the DC brings to the area. First, because you are bringing well-paid professionals into the area, real estate prices will rise to reflect that surge in demand for housing in the area. With more people comes local pressure on resources like grocery stores, pharmacies, gas stations, entertainment, and other consumables. In addition to bringing jobs into the area, they are increasing demand for the aformentioned resources, which forces more hiring and expansion. This increases the general prosperity of the local economy, and allow health and human service provision to increase as well - better hospital service, and so on. If these are young professionals they are probably bringing families into the area, creating more property tax value for the local schools to budget with. It also means more tax money to support local infrastructure. So the roads get better repairs, power is more consistent, the local telco can finally get that new blade it's been needing. Again more jobs are created than just those listed for the plant itself. This is why politicians offer tax incentives to the company. Because what they offer is small compared to what is gained.
So what you are saying is if Apple had agreed to pay the standard tax rate that the stock of Apple would have been reduced in value?
Yes, that is correct.
Say from $278 a share to 275 a share.
No, not nearly that much.