I agree maybe it wouldn´t be in the netbook market, however, i don´t think they will compromise in the display or the keyboard, i don´t think you can put a full size keyboard alongside an 11.6 display
I'm reading that the Apple Wireless Keyboard is only 11" wide. If we assume Apple switches to a 16:9 aspect ratio (say what you will about it, they did switch on the iMacs), an 11.6" screen would feature a 10.1" width. Add half an inch to each side for the bezel and the keyboard fits. It's just within the realm of possibility.
wait, that's another thing, I wouldn't replace my pbook 12" which already has about a cm more vertical real estate than the 13" air with an even smaller v. screen size model, no way.
I can't imagine why Apple would think a 11.6" screen is something consumers would want... 13.3" is pretty small as it is.
Unless you're a waif model, at this point there is absolutely no reason to get the Air instead of the MBP 13. Speaking of which, what I'm really interested in is a refresh of the MBP 13, and with the iPad around, I'm not sure there's a future at all for the Air.
Unless you're a waif model, at this point there is absolutely no reason to get the Air instead of the MBP 13. Speaking of which, what I'm really interested in is a refresh of the MBP 13, and with the iPad around, I'm not sure there's a future at all for the Air.
For many of us that reason is the glare from the mbp 13" glass, had there been an anti glare option i would have been the perfect replacement for the old pbook, a proper pbook 12" replacemnt for people who want to work instead of kids who want to watch dark blacks in movies...
It's one of those few things about apple that is incomprehensible to me, why they are not offering a matte option, and they are letting their market erode to the sony's and the lenovo's just for a friggin screen. And I don't think it's in order to push people to buy the 15" model...
A monumental fail this choice to me.
Steve, eventually, please take note of that, at last, damn it.
I'm reading that the Apple Wireless Keyboard is only 11" wide. If we assume Apple switches to a 16:9 aspect ratio (say what you will about it, they did switch on the iMacs), an 11.6" screen would feature a 10.1" width. Add half an inch to each side for the bezel and the keyboard fits. It's just within the realm of possibility.
It is a possibility, i just think there is a greater possibility that there is no change in screen size... but as always with Apple we will have to wait and see.
I for one would not buy a computer that small, if they refresh it as a 13.3 i would definitely consider it, but as i am seeing in this an other forums there seems to be a good amount of people interested on a 11.6 so maybe if the numbers are right for Apple they will go ahead and do it.
Unless you're a waif model, at this point there is absolutely no reason to get the Air instead of the MBP 13. Speaking of which, what I'm really interested in is a refresh of the MBP 13, and with the iPad around, I'm not sure there's a future at all for the Air.
It's all about mobility and less weight to carry around. I'd rather be sitting in a restaurant updating my website or a report on an MBA than having to sit at home in my den working...I don't want to carry around the heavy MBP 13" even though it's a very powerful laptop.
Yes, I would prefer sitting in a restaurant and NOT updating my website/reports but that's life!
Best!
PS. As wonderful as my den is, it's starting to feel like a a cubicle. For all those who wish they could work at home, it's not that great. I really miss the human interaction. Don't miss having a boss or a commute, though. So doing my work sitting at a restaurant by the lake is very fine...I do have a tendency to drink too much beer, though. Oh well, there are worse things, I guess.
It is a possibility, i just think there is a greater possibility that there is no change in screen size... but as always with Apple we will have to wait and see.
I wouldn't be surprised to see it remain the same this iteration. I just don't think it has a future in the 13" segment if the macbook continues to shrink. It will eventually have to merge with the macbook or get smaller.
I wouldn't be surprised to see it remain the same this iteration. I just don't think it has a future in the 13" segment if the macbook continues to shrink. It will eventually have to merge with the macbook.
This info plus the previous week?s patent on a multi-touchbased Mac OS X makes me wonder if they will make a hybrid tablet/notebook. At 11.6? this might be feasible. Having a CocoaTouch overlay UI in the way Apple introduced the 10 foot UI BackRow for the AppleTV by first creating the 10 foot UI FrontRow for Mac OS X.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave K.
13.3" is the replace for the 12" Powerbook. 13.3" is widescreen, the 12" isn't.
QFT
The aspect ratio difference means that the 12? PB is actually taller than the 13? MB/MBA/MBP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doorman.
This was one of the 2 reasons why I did not buy current MacBook Air - no integrated 3G.
(Second was - that it has only glossy screen option).
Otherwise I would have made it my travel laptop.
I?d love that across all Mac notebooks, but even without a cellular option I?d love a GPS chip for Find My Mac that could be incorporated to the lowest levels of the system so unless a thief changes the digital representation of the BiAs then devices could still be found even after a reinstall of Mac OS X.
I too carry my Macbook Pro and iPad everywhere, i think the question is... Would users prefer a thiner lighter more powerful MBA with the same 13.3 display or would they prefer an 11.6 with maybe those same specs. I think the price will definitely come down be it a 13.3 or an 11.6
As one of those that carry a macbook and iPad (and iPhone) everywhere (occupational hazard, I suppose), I am very much interested in a more powerful MBA with the 13" screen. 4GB of RAM would be nice. Upgradeable to 8GB would be nicer.
Unless you're a waif model, at this point there is absolutely no reason to get the Air instead of the MBP 13. Speaking of which, what I'm really interested in is a refresh of the MBP 13, and with the iPad around, I'm not sure there's a future at all for the Air.
I am not a waif model (the thought makes me laugh) but the less that I have to carry, the easier life is is - especially with a suit jacket on as i found out the other day.
Sorry... I just had another look at the iPad intro and Steve keeps saying that the iPad is wonderful for certain tasks but not once did I ever hear him connect the dots to his trash talk about netbooks to the iPad as a replacement.
My opinion... an 11" MBA would be a perfect replacement for netbooks even if it costs twice as much.
It was Oppenheimer who kept saying that at a different meeting... and I agree with him.
I tried a "high-end" netbook back in late '08 to as a hackintosh. Driver issues aside (I even beefed up the RAM and got a broadcom wifi miniPCI), I got OSX running fine on it as well as Ubuntu Netbook Remix.
The netbook (Atom-based) was quite decent in performance for it's price, but the hardware just SUCKED. The input device kept registering false clicks, the keyboard was too small, and it was loud compared to my macbook unibody.
All in all, I just gave it to a friend who just wanted a cheapo desktop (she already had a monitor/mouse)... it was good for that. It failed at it's original goal to be portable and usable.
Input device quality matters, and Apple has cornered the market there.
That is exactly my problem. I'm looking for a small notebook that will serve as my coach potato/travel computer. I love the MBA but it's about 2.5x the cost of what i'm willing to spend, and I don't need a full OSX based computer. I can't seem to justify the cost, when all i'd use one for is internet, email and the occasional Netflix/Hulu viewing. The iPad won't due because it has no physical keyboard to type on (i.e. emailing and blogs and forums). Problem is a netbook won't work because of what everyone (including SJ) as already mentioned, slow slow slow. If they made the iPad with a fold-out keyboard, like a laptop, I'd be 100% satisfied. Edit: now i'm not exactly sure how Airplay works, but if you could run it on a laptop and stream music from your primary iTunes server to the iPad or another MBA...that would be all I would need.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels
I agree. The thing is the MBA costs triple or more.
I'm shopping for an inexpensive midrange notebook that runs Windows (I don't want to buy anything directly from Microsoft so I'm not buying their software to run on my Mac). I'm seeing things that will do the job for half the price of the basic Mac Book. The only thing the MBA offers is it's small size. I suppose the MBA will always be a small niche product. How much of Apple's overall sales come from MBA's?
I see the rumored MBA (as rumored) as filling the gaping void between iPad and MBP. I've thought of plenty of reasons I won't buy an iPad... and the MBA-as-rumored would fix them, were it a box at a reasonable price.
Of course, SJ and his band could well muck up the design or the running environment...\
I´m just not seeing it being smaller, they introduced it saying there would be nothing but a full size keyboard and full size display, at 11.6 they would have to compromise on both, i don´t know how they would spin that. I do think, however, that it is going to be thiner, lighter and more powerful...cheaper too.
They are going against the netbook market with the iPad, i just don´t see them making basically a netbook when they introduced the iPad as a netbook killer.
As long as peoples see this new AIR as a notebook it won't have sales problems. The trick here is for Apple to get the port allotment right, along with storage so that the device is seen as a notebook and not a netbook.
Demand is there still for small Laptops. Especially if we are talking about a small Laptop with a truly powerful CPU. In other words an ATOM free Laptop. I'm still thinking the unit will have a Bobcat based AMD Fusion processor. It just seems like the ideal solution for a device of this type.
More importantly this could give Apple the opportunity to produce a high quality sub $800 laptop. Maybe well below that number. In effect close to netbook prices but with far better performance and run time.
Now this might not be the computer for me or you but it could be ideal for many users. As I've said the demand is there. The idea that the whole platform might only use 20 to 25 watts is very inviting especially if paired with a decently sized battery.
@fjpoblam: yes, with the iPad topping out at $829, a $799 11.6" MBA or even call it an "iBook" and let it bridge the gap between the iPad and the MBP. Let it run iOS and OSX, either combined or some hybrid version. That's what I'd like to see.
Edit: I can just see the commercials now: "all the Apps you know and love, combined with enough power to run OSX...wrapped up in the thinest, lightest Mac EVER...the all new, Revolutionary iBook." This could be the ideal Student PC, and I'm not talking about College, but K-12...however I could see this as a college device as well.
@fjpoblam: yes, with the iPad topping out at $829, a $799 11.6" MBA or even call it an "iBook" and let it bridge the gap between the iPad and the MBP. Let it run iOS and OSX, either combined or some hybrid version. That's what I'd like to see.
Edit: I can just see the commercials now: "all the Apps you know and love, combined with enough power to run OSX...wrapped up in the thinest, lightest Mac EVER...the all new, Revolutionary iBook." This could be the ideal Student PC, and I'm not talking about College, but K-12...however I could see this as a college device as well.
1) That price point seems low to me if we assume at least Core-i7 SFF CULV ($300+?), 4GB RAM and 128GB SSD. I don't see Apple porting Mac OS X to ARM.
2) As I noted earlier in this thread having a 11.6" that could run a CocoaTouch overlay app, like Apple does with FrontRow, might work, but I think only iPad apps would be useful. Who uses iPgone/Touch apps on their iPad. It's just a horrid experience.
PS: A 9.7" 4:3 display is what length on the short side? How much different is this from an 11.6" 16:10 display on the short side?
Edit: 11.6" at 16:10 is 6.15" on short side. 9.7" at 4:3 is 5.83" on short side. That's a difference of 0.32" or 0.16" on each side so I doubt they would stretch iPad apps to fill that extra space. That leaves pixel density as a potential issue as Mac OS X is not yet RI.
Edit 2: if they use 1280x800 on an 11.6" display this will only be a difference of 3 ppi or about 10 total pixels per square inch off the iPad's display. Many iPad apps will still need to be adjusted if they didn't follow SDK guidelines and this will a bit constrained for Mac OS X UI elements, but no more than Apple's higher density display options for the 15" and 17" MBPs, and will have the added benefit of likely being closer to the eyes thus negating the issue for many. I just hope RI comes in 10.7 so this is no longer an issue and we start seeing some real display resolution density changes on Macs.
Comments
I agree maybe it wouldn´t be in the netbook market, however, i don´t think they will compromise in the display or the keyboard, i don´t think you can put a full size keyboard alongside an 11.6 display
I'm reading that the Apple Wireless Keyboard is only 11" wide. If we assume Apple switches to a 16:9 aspect ratio (say what you will about it, they did switch on the iMacs), an 11.6" screen would feature a 10.1" width. Add half an inch to each side for the bezel and the keyboard fits. It's just within the realm of possibility.
wait, that's another thing, I wouldn't replace my pbook 12" which already has about a cm more vertical real estate than the 13" air with an even smaller v. screen size model, no way.
Fair enough. I guess you'll have to keep waiting
I can't imagine why Apple would think a 11.6" screen is something consumers would want... 13.3" is pretty small as it is.
Unless you're a waif model, at this point there is absolutely no reason to get the Air instead of the MBP 13. Speaking of which, what I'm really interested in is a refresh of the MBP 13, and with the iPad around, I'm not sure there's a future at all for the Air.
Unless you're a waif model, at this point there is absolutely no reason to get the Air instead of the MBP 13. Speaking of which, what I'm really interested in is a refresh of the MBP 13, and with the iPad around, I'm not sure there's a future at all for the Air.
For many of us that reason is the glare from the mbp 13" glass, had there been an anti glare option i would have been the perfect replacement for the old pbook, a proper pbook 12" replacemnt for people who want to work instead of kids who want to watch dark blacks in movies...
It's one of those few things about apple that is incomprehensible to me, why they are not offering a matte option, and they are letting their market erode to the sony's and the lenovo's just for a friggin screen. And I don't think it's in order to push people to buy the 15" model...
A monumental fail this choice to me.
Steve, eventually, please take note of that, at last, damn it.
I'm reading that the Apple Wireless Keyboard is only 11" wide. If we assume Apple switches to a 16:9 aspect ratio (say what you will about it, they did switch on the iMacs), an 11.6" screen would feature a 10.1" width. Add half an inch to each side for the bezel and the keyboard fits. It's just within the realm of possibility.
It is a possibility, i just think there is a greater possibility that there is no change in screen size... but as always with Apple we will have to wait and see.
I for one would not buy a computer that small, if they refresh it as a 13.3 i would definitely consider it, but as i am seeing in this an other forums there seems to be a good amount of people interested on a 11.6 so maybe if the numbers are right for Apple they will go ahead and do it.
Unless you're a waif model, at this point there is absolutely no reason to get the Air instead of the MBP 13. Speaking of which, what I'm really interested in is a refresh of the MBP 13, and with the iPad around, I'm not sure there's a future at all for the Air.
It's all about mobility and less weight to carry around. I'd rather be sitting in a restaurant updating my website or a report on an MBA than having to sit at home in my den working...I don't want to carry around the heavy MBP 13" even though it's a very powerful laptop.
Yes, I would prefer sitting in a restaurant and NOT updating my website/reports but that's life!
Best!
PS. As wonderful as my den is, it's starting to feel like a a cubicle. For all those who wish they could work at home, it's not that great. I really miss the human interaction. Don't miss having a boss or a commute, though. So doing my work sitting at a restaurant by the lake is very fine...I do have a tendency to drink too much beer, though. Oh well, there are worse things, I guess.
PSS. My GF's cats like me being home!
It is a possibility, i just think there is a greater possibility that there is no change in screen size... but as always with Apple we will have to wait and see.
I wouldn't be surprised to see it remain the same this iteration. I just don't think it has a future in the 13" segment if the macbook continues to shrink. It will eventually have to merge with the macbook or get smaller.
I wouldn't be surprised to see it remain the same this iteration. I just don't think it has a future in the 13" segment if the macbook continues to shrink. It will eventually have to merge with the macbook.
That i completely agree with
13.3" is the replace for the 12" Powerbook. 13.3" is widescreen, the 12" isn't.
QFT
The aspect ratio difference means that the 12? PB is actually taller than the 13? MB/MBA/MBP.
This was one of the 2 reasons why I did not buy current MacBook Air - no integrated 3G.
(Second was - that it has only glossy screen option).
Otherwise I would have made it my travel laptop.
I?d love that across all Mac notebooks, but even without a cellular option I?d love a GPS chip for Find My Mac that could be incorporated to the lowest levels of the system so unless a thief changes the digital representation of the BiAs then devices could still be found even after a reinstall of Mac OS X.
Hoping Apple will give me a reason to give them my money. It's how our relationship works
I know the feeling. I had a wife like that once....
I too carry my Macbook Pro and iPad everywhere, i think the question is... Would users prefer a thiner lighter more powerful MBA with the same 13.3 display or would they prefer an 11.6 with maybe those same specs. I think the price will definitely come down be it a 13.3 or an 11.6
As one of those that carry a macbook and iPad (and iPhone) everywhere (occupational hazard, I suppose), I am very much interested in a more powerful MBA with the 13" screen. 4GB of RAM would be nice. Upgradeable to 8GB would be nicer.
Unless you're a waif model, at this point there is absolutely no reason to get the Air instead of the MBP 13. Speaking of which, what I'm really interested in is a refresh of the MBP 13, and with the iPad around, I'm not sure there's a future at all for the Air.
I am not a waif model (the thought makes me laugh) but the less that I have to carry, the easier life is is - especially with a suit jacket on as i found out the other day.
Sorry... I just had another look at the iPad intro and Steve keeps saying that the iPad is wonderful for certain tasks but not once did I ever hear him connect the dots to his trash talk about netbooks to the iPad as a replacement.
My opinion... an 11" MBA would be a perfect replacement for netbooks even if it costs twice as much.
It was Oppenheimer who kept saying that at a different meeting... and I agree with him.
I tried a "high-end" netbook back in late '08 to as a hackintosh. Driver issues aside (I even beefed up the RAM and got a broadcom wifi miniPCI), I got OSX running fine on it as well as Ubuntu Netbook Remix.
The netbook (Atom-based) was quite decent in performance for it's price, but the hardware just SUCKED. The input device kept registering false clicks, the keyboard was too small, and it was loud compared to my macbook unibody.
All in all, I just gave it to a friend who just wanted a cheapo desktop (she already had a monitor/mouse)... it was good for that. It failed at it's original goal to be portable and usable.
Input device quality matters, and Apple has cornered the market there.
I agree. The thing is the MBA costs triple or more.
I'm shopping for an inexpensive midrange notebook that runs Windows (I don't want to buy anything directly from Microsoft so I'm not buying their software to run on my Mac). I'm seeing things that will do the job for half the price of the basic Mac Book. The only thing the MBA offers is it's small size. I suppose the MBA will always be a small niche product. How much of Apple's overall sales come from MBA's?
Of course, SJ and his band could well muck up the design or the running environment...
I look forward to this little wonder.
I´m just not seeing it being smaller, they introduced it saying there would be nothing but a full size keyboard and full size display, at 11.6 they would have to compromise on both, i don´t know how they would spin that. I do think, however, that it is going to be thiner, lighter and more powerful...cheaper too.
They are going against the netbook market with the iPad, i just don´t see them making basically a netbook when they introduced the iPad as a netbook killer.
As long as peoples see this new AIR as a notebook it won't have sales problems. The trick here is for Apple to get the port allotment right, along with storage so that the device is seen as a notebook and not a netbook.
Demand is there still for small Laptops. Especially if we are talking about a small Laptop with a truly powerful CPU. In other words an ATOM free Laptop. I'm still thinking the unit will have a Bobcat based AMD Fusion processor. It just seems like the ideal solution for a device of this type.
More importantly this could give Apple the opportunity to produce a high quality sub $800 laptop. Maybe well below that number. In effect close to netbook prices but with far better performance and run time.
Now this might not be the computer for me or you but it could be ideal for many users. As I've said the demand is there. The idea that the whole platform might only use 20 to 25 watts is very inviting especially if paired with a decently sized battery.
Edit: I can just see the commercials now: "all the Apps you know and love, combined with enough power to run OSX...wrapped up in the thinest, lightest Mac EVER...the all new, Revolutionary iBook." This could be the ideal Student PC, and I'm not talking about College, but K-12...however I could see this as a college device as well.
@fjpoblam: yes, with the iPad topping out at $829, a $799 11.6" MBA or even call it an "iBook" and let it bridge the gap between the iPad and the MBP. Let it run iOS and OSX, either combined or some hybrid version. That's what I'd like to see.
Edit: I can just see the commercials now: "all the Apps you know and love, combined with enough power to run OSX...wrapped up in the thinest, lightest Mac EVER...the all new, Revolutionary iBook." This could be the ideal Student PC, and I'm not talking about College, but K-12...however I could see this as a college device as well.
1) That price point seems low to me if we assume at least Core-i7 SFF CULV ($300+?), 4GB RAM and 128GB SSD. I don't see Apple porting Mac OS X to ARM.
2) As I noted earlier in this thread having a 11.6" that could run a CocoaTouch overlay app, like Apple does with FrontRow, might work, but I think only iPad apps would be useful. Who uses iPgone/Touch apps on their iPad. It's just a horrid experience.
PS: A 9.7" 4:3 display is what length on the short side? How much different is this from an 11.6" 16:10 display on the short side?
Edit: 11.6" at 16:10 is 6.15" on short side. 9.7" at 4:3 is 5.83" on short side. That's a difference of 0.32" or 0.16" on each side so I doubt they would stretch iPad apps to fill that extra space. That leaves pixel density as a potential issue as Mac OS X is not yet RI.
Edit 2: if they use 1280x800 on an 11.6" display this will only be a difference of 3 ppi or about 10 total pixels per square inch off the iPad's display. Many iPad apps will still need to be adjusted if they didn't follow SDK guidelines and this will a bit constrained for Mac OS X UI elements, but no more than Apple's higher density display options for the 15" and 17" MBPs, and will have the added benefit of likely being closer to the eyes thus negating the issue for many. I just hope RI comes in 10.7 so this is no longer an issue and we start seeing some real display resolution density changes on Macs.