i don´t think you can put a full size keyboard alongside an 11.6 display
Why not, my MacBook Pro 13" has a keyboard that is 11" wide and could be trimmed by trimming some of the wide keys, tab, shift, return. Also my 13" diag screen fits in a 13" wide top, so the MacBook Air could be 11.6" wide with an 11" wide keyboard.
Yeah, $799 seemed low as I typed it. The post after mine that calls $999 would probably be more reasonable, given what I dreamed up in my last post. But you have to take into account that a hybrid OSX/iOS ("iBook" as I call it) would probably not need such hefty specs to run smoothly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
1) That price point seems low to me if we assume at least Core-i7 SFF CULV ($300+?), 4GB RAM and 128GB SSD. I don't see Apple porting Mac OS X to ARM.
There are many Apps that are written for both Touch and iPad (i.e. Netflix App. and iBooks to name a few). Many App Devs are writing them for both now. So I don't see compatibility with screen size as that big of an issue. And take into account, what I'm speculating doesn't necessarily have to be a 16x10 or 4x3 screen. The ipad and Touch have different ratios too (i think the iPad is a 3x2 screen).
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
2) As I noted earlier in this thread having a 11.6" that could run a CocoaTouch overlay app, like Apple does with FrontRow, might work, but I think only iPad apps would be useful. Who uses iPgone/Touch apps on their iPad. It's just a horrid experience.
PS: A 9.7" 4:3 display is what length on the short side? How much different is this from an 11.6" 16:10 display on the short side?
Edit: 11.6" at 16:10 is 6.15" on short side. 9.7" at 4:3 is 5.83" on short side. That's a difference of 0.32" or 0.16" on each side so I doubt they would stretch iPad apps to fill that extra space. That leaves pixel density as a potential issue as Mac OS X is not yet RI.
They are going against the netbook market with the iPad, i just don´t see them making basically a netbook when they introduced the iPad as a netbook killer.
The iPad doesn't even come close to replacing a netbook though, it's a different category altogether. I hardly even use my iPad anymore, because it can't do most of the things I need from a portable device.
Personally, I'd like to see Apple drop both the MBA and the plastic MB and replace them with a 10-11" Mac netbook with similar feature specs to HPs netbooks (built-in 3G, 3 USB ports, SD card slot, HDMI out, etc). I'd be first in line for one of those!
I own an MBA. Last time I checked it has a matte screen.
Check again .
The thing about the Air's screen that makes it tolerable for me is that it doesn't have the layer of glass in front of it. Glossy is somewhat doable for me if its only the panel, but then Apple had to add the layer of glass in front of its Macbook Pro line and Cinema Display, as well as the iMac that just put the reflectiveness over the top for me.
You can easily see the huge decrease in reflectiveness if you pop the glass off of an iMac for example using a pair of good suction cups (be careful!). The difference is astonishing and makes you wonder why Apple continues to place a sheet of glass in front of their glossy displays?
Funny enough, it doesn't bother me on my iPhone. (But it does bother me on the iPad).
after a week of looking at options and price (my imac is at end of life) i have decided that i am not going to give apple any more of my money for computers. the imacs all use the cheaper dual channel memory (even the top imac i7) and the mac pro with 6 core is just outrageously priced. so bye bye os x when the imac dies. bought a pc 12gig, 6 core machine with an ati 5770 video card with 24" display for 1600 dollars (that includes shipping and tax). will run ubuntu on it. sorry apple, i decided to 'think different'.
Pfft. I'd have held out for 24GB of RAM and twin 30" displays. You settled.
That is exactly my problem. I'm looking for a small notebook that will serve as my coach potato/travel computer. I love the MBA but it's about 2.5x the cost of what i'm willing to spend, and I don't need a full OSX based computer. I can't seem to justify the cost, when all i'd use one for is internet, email and the occasional Netflix/Hulu viewing. The iPad won't due because it has no physical keyboard to type on (i.e. emailing and blogs and forums). Problem is a netbook won't work because of what everyone (including SJ) as already mentioned, slow slow slow. If they made the iPad with a fold-out keyboard, like a laptop, I'd be 100% satisfied. Edit: now i'm not exactly sure how Airplay works, but if you could run it on a laptop and stream music from your primary iTunes server to the iPad or another MBA...that would be all I would need.
i don´t think you can put a full size keyboard alongside an 11.6 display
Juuuust to remind you guys, the 12 inch iBook and Powerbook had full sized keyboards, and their displays were not widescreen. Infact, Apple went out of their way to market the 12 inch Powerbook keyboard as identical to the ones in the 15 inch and 17 inch Powerbooks. Sure, we would lose 0.4 inches, but you gotta remember this screen would almost certainly now be wide aspect ratio. It'll fit, if they really wanted it to.
I don't see Apple doing anything but a full sized keyboard on this one, given Apple's nature to insist on a great user experience. Its the same reason Apple withholds features. If a feature is not up to Apple's standard of ease of use and quality, they don't include it rather than include it sub-par. Just look at the iPhone 3G video recording. Cycorder can do it, but its not included as a standard feature because video recording on the iPhone 3G is very low resolution and 10-15fps. When Apple finally DID include it in their 3GS, it was a respectable 640x480 and rivaled my point and shoot Casio digital camera in quality. Do you guys remember how horrible voicemail used to be prior to the iPhone? One of the big features Apple touted with the iPhone was a feature called visual voicemail. Before visual voicemail, standard voicemail was the MOST AWEFUL THING EVER and thats almost not exaggerating. Apple would have none of that, as it would provide a poor user experience.
Small keyboards IMHO are the same. They provide an inferior user experience. I personally find them so uncomfortable that it is a deal-breaker to buying ultra portables back in the day (Sony X505 anyone?)
Juuuust to remind you guys, the 12 inch iBook and Powerbook had full sized keyboards, and their displays were not widescreen. Infact, Apple went out of their way to market the 12 inch Powerbook keyboard as identical to the ones in the 15 inch and 17 inch Powerbooks. Sure, we would lose 0.4 inches, but you gotta remember this screen would almost certainly now be wide aspect ratio. It'll fit, if they really wanted it to.
The width of a 11.6" 16:10 display is 9.84" across and the width of the 12.1" 4:3 display is 9.67", or 0.17" wider than the 12" PB. The only issue may be the death of the multi-touch trackpad.
PS: After doing all these calculations based on this 11.6" display size and assuming a 16:10 aspect ratio it seems to me there is enough circumstantial evidence at makes this an ideal for all hinges discussed. Therefore I'm heavily leaning toward this being likely. Now, what do you think is likely for the other HW?
For many of us that reason is the glare from the mbp 13" glass, had there been an anti glare option i would have been the perfect replacement for the old pbook, a proper pbook 12" replacemnt for people who want to work instead of kids who want to watch dark blacks in movies...
It's one of those few things about apple that is incomprehensible to me, why they are not offering a matte option, and they are letting their market erode to the sony's and the lenovo's just for a friggin screen. And I don't think it's in order to push people to buy the 15" model...
A monumental fail this choice to me.
Steve, eventually, please take note of that, at last, damn it.
Why is it incomprehensible? Have you seen the quarterly results for sales of MacBook pros with shiny screens? Fabulous numbers.
As a user of a 12inch PowerBook G4, I would love to see a 11.6 inch MBA. The Powerbook has got a 320GB drive, and 1.25 GB of RAM, and it's still uslessly slow, but I love the small form factor, a 13 inch MacBook Pro seems HUGE beside it
Maybe they are going to discontinue the MacBook Air.
I used to want a MacBook Air. A light weight laptop that I could easily carry with me. But not anymore. The iPad - at least for me - has filled that hole. I still have a MacBook Pro for when I do need the full laptop experience but I find that most of the time all I need is the iPad which is lighter, easier to carry and a lot cheaper than an Air.
If you want power I'd recommend a MacBook Pro. If you want portability I'd recommend the iPad. Even better - buy both. I no longer see the need for the MacBook Air.
I can't imagine why Apple would think a 11.6" screen is something consumers would want... 13.3" is pretty small as it is.
I think it makes sense, actually. The MacBook Air was always about one thing, and one thing only: To make as light and as compact an ultraportable laptop as the laws of physics would allow. The first MacBook Air pioneered Apple's new UniBody manufacturing process, and since then they've accquired even more experience with (cost-effective) UniBody design with the iPad, and pushing the boundaries of compacting with the iPhone 4.
While most people were enarmoured with the sleek design of the MacBook Air it had two major things against it: Overpriced and underpowered. I think Apple can improve on both accounts with todays technology. For power the new Intel Core i3's are a much better match for an ultraportable than any of the Intel CoreDuos back in its day. Even from a price perspective. The UniBody manufacturing proces which used to be something exotic that came at a premium with the first two models of the MacBook Air, has now become standard procedure for Apple's manufacturing partner. That brings the production costs down, and allows for a lower retail price while keeping Apple's (high) profit margin on the MacBook Air.
The MacBook Air's claim to fame was always its extreme lightness and small size. It's only logical for Apple to take that hallmark one step further and shrink its ultraportable to 11,6" to differentiate it further from the (standard) 13" MacBook Pro.
Next time Steve won't pull the MacBook Air out of a Manila envelope, but a standard size white C4 envelope! Just you wait and see.
i don´t think you can put a full size keyboard alongside an 11.6 display
Having actually measured with a measuring tape, I have no doubt that Apple can put the current keyboard into an 11.6" MBA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove
I wouldn't replace my pbook 12" which already has about a cm more vertical real estate than the 13" air with an even smaller v. screen size model, no way.
I replaced my 12" PowerBook with a MBA that had 32 pixels more vertical real estate. 1280x800 trumps 1024x768 and will continue to do so when the former is 11.6". Unfortunately, I had to give up my MBA because 2GB of ram made it nearly unusable for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splinemodel
Unless you're a waif model, at this point there is absolutely no reason to get the Air instead of the MBP 13.
Rubbish! Many of us fight the 8kg weight limit for airline carry-on bags several times per week. A reduction in weight is worth about $1000 per 100g to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1
a $799 11.6" MBA
ROTFLMAO! I cannot imagine a MBA priced below $1199.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
The width of a 11.6" 16:10 display is 9.84" across and the width of the 12.1" 4:3 display is 9.67", or 0.17" wider than the 12" PB. The only issue may be the death of the multi-touch trackpad.
PS: After doing all these calculations based on this 11.6" display size and assuming a 16:10 aspect ratio it seems to me there is enough circumstantial evidence at makes this an ideal for all hinges discussed. Therefore I'm heavily leaning toward this being likely. Now, what do you think is likely for the other HW?
I'm expecting the new MBA to include:
- 1280x800 at a pixel density similar to that of the 17" and new 15" MBPs
- exactly the same keyboard used in current Apple laptops
- multitouch trackpad
- 4GB of ram directly on the motherboard
- 128GB (low-end model) and 256GB (high end model) SSD directly on the motherboard (no HD possibility)
- the above would give us the same upgradability that the iPad has, meaning lower weight, cost, thickness, and greater reliability
- 1280x800 at a pixel density similar to that of the 17" and new 15" MBPs
The pixel density of the 1280x800 13.3? MB/MBP/MBA is already slightly higher than the 15? MBP and slightly lower than the 17? MBP. If you consider the high-resolution display, which I mentioned earlier, then a 1280x800 11.6? display would equate to that BTO option.
Comments
i don´t think you can put a full size keyboard alongside an 11.6 display
Why not, my MacBook Pro 13" has a keyboard that is 11" wide and could be trimmed by trimming some of the wide keys, tab, shift, return. Also my 13" diag screen fits in a 13" wide top, so the MacBook Air could be 11.6" wide with an 11" wide keyboard.
1) That price point seems low to me if we assume at least Core-i7 SFF CULV ($300+?), 4GB RAM and 128GB SSD. I don't see Apple porting Mac OS X to ARM.
There are many Apps that are written for both Touch and iPad (i.e. Netflix App. and iBooks to name a few). Many App Devs are writing them for both now. So I don't see compatibility with screen size as that big of an issue. And take into account, what I'm speculating doesn't necessarily have to be a 16x10 or 4x3 screen. The ipad and Touch have different ratios too (i think the iPad is a 3x2 screen).
2) As I noted earlier in this thread having a 11.6" that could run a CocoaTouch overlay app, like Apple does with FrontRow, might work, but I think only iPad apps would be useful. Who uses iPgone/Touch apps on their iPad. It's just a horrid experience.
PS: A 9.7" 4:3 display is what length on the short side? How much different is this from an 11.6" 16:10 display on the short side?
Edit: 11.6" at 16:10 is 6.15" on short side. 9.7" at 4:3 is 5.83" on short side. That's a difference of 0.32" or 0.16" on each side so I doubt they would stretch iPad apps to fill that extra space. That leaves pixel density as a potential issue as Mac OS X is not yet RI.
I don't remember any Apple marketing touting the iPad as a netbook killer.
But Steve Jobs actually compared the iPhone 3G to a netbook.
They are going against the netbook market with the iPad, i just don´t see them making basically a netbook when they introduced the iPad as a netbook killer.
The iPad doesn't even come close to replacing a netbook though, it's a different category altogether. I hardly even use my iPad anymore, because it can't do most of the things I need from a portable device.
Personally, I'd like to see Apple drop both the MBA and the plastic MB and replace them with a 10-11" Mac netbook with similar feature specs to HPs netbooks (built-in 3G, 3 USB ports, SD card slot, HDMI out, etc). I'd be first in line for one of those!
I own an MBA. Last time I checked it has a matte screen.
Check again
The thing about the Air's screen that makes it tolerable for me is that it doesn't have the layer of glass in front of it. Glossy is somewhat doable for me if its only the panel, but then Apple had to add the layer of glass in front of its Macbook Pro line and Cinema Display, as well as the iMac that just put the reflectiveness over the top for me.
You can easily see the huge decrease in reflectiveness if you pop the glass off of an iMac for example using a pair of good suction cups (be careful!). The difference is astonishing and makes you wonder why Apple continues to place a sheet of glass in front of their glossy displays?
Funny enough, it doesn't bother me on my iPhone. (But it does bother me on the iPad).
after a week of looking at options and price (my imac is at end of life) i have decided that i am not going to give apple any more of my money for computers. the imacs all use the cheaper dual channel memory (even the top imac i7) and the mac pro with 6 core is just outrageously priced. so bye bye os x when the imac dies. bought a pc 12gig, 6 core machine with an ati 5770 video card with 24" display for 1600 dollars (that includes shipping and tax). will run ubuntu on it. sorry apple, i decided to 'think different'.
Pfft. I'd have held out for 24GB of RAM and twin 30" displays. You settled.
http://www.9to5mac.com/26887/ipad-ke...ble-in-the-u-s
That is exactly my problem. I'm looking for a small notebook that will serve as my coach potato/travel computer. I love the MBA but it's about 2.5x the cost of what i'm willing to spend, and I don't need a full OSX based computer. I can't seem to justify the cost, when all i'd use one for is internet, email and the occasional Netflix/Hulu viewing. The iPad won't due because it has no physical keyboard to type on (i.e. emailing and blogs and forums). Problem is a netbook won't work because of what everyone (including SJ) as already mentioned, slow slow slow. If they made the iPad with a fold-out keyboard, like a laptop, I'd be 100% satisfied. Edit: now i'm not exactly sure how Airplay works, but if you could run it on a laptop and stream music from your primary iTunes server to the iPad or another MBA...that would be all I would need.
I know the feeling. I had a wife like that once....
This comment is full of win.
Problem is a netbook won't work because of what everyone (including SJ) as already mentioned, slow slow slow. .
I guess it depends on which netbook. My HP netbook is a lot faster at most tasks than my iPad.
i don´t think you can put a full size keyboard alongside an 11.6 display
Juuuust to remind you guys, the 12 inch iBook and Powerbook had full sized keyboards, and their displays were not widescreen. Infact, Apple went out of their way to market the 12 inch Powerbook keyboard as identical to the ones in the 15 inch and 17 inch Powerbooks. Sure, we would lose 0.4 inches, but you gotta remember this screen would almost certainly now be wide aspect ratio. It'll fit, if they really wanted it to.
I don't see Apple doing anything but a full sized keyboard on this one, given Apple's nature to insist on a great user experience. Its the same reason Apple withholds features. If a feature is not up to Apple's standard of ease of use and quality, they don't include it rather than include it sub-par. Just look at the iPhone 3G video recording. Cycorder can do it, but its not included as a standard feature because video recording on the iPhone 3G is very low resolution and 10-15fps. When Apple finally DID include it in their 3GS, it was a respectable 640x480 and rivaled my point and shoot Casio digital camera in quality. Do you guys remember how horrible voicemail used to be prior to the iPhone? One of the big features Apple touted with the iPhone was a feature called visual voicemail. Before visual voicemail, standard voicemail was the MOST AWEFUL THING EVER and thats almost not exaggerating. Apple would have none of that, as it would provide a poor user experience.
Small keyboards IMHO are the same. They provide an inferior user experience. I personally find them so uncomfortable that it is a deal-breaker to buying ultra portables back in the day (Sony X505 anyone?)
Juuuust to remind you guys, the 12 inch iBook and Powerbook had full sized keyboards, and their displays were not widescreen. Infact, Apple went out of their way to market the 12 inch Powerbook keyboard as identical to the ones in the 15 inch and 17 inch Powerbooks. Sure, we would lose 0.4 inches, but you gotta remember this screen would almost certainly now be wide aspect ratio. It'll fit, if they really wanted it to.
The width of a 11.6" 16:10 display is 9.84" across and the width of the 12.1" 4:3 display is 9.67", or 0.17" wider than the 12" PB. The only issue may be the death of the multi-touch trackpad.
PS: After doing all these calculations based on this 11.6" display size and assuming a 16:10 aspect ratio it seems to me there is enough circumstantial evidence at makes this an ideal for all hinges discussed. Therefore I'm heavily leaning toward this being likely. Now, what do you think is likely for the other HW?
The N150 has an Atom N450, and the new NF210 model has an Atom N455. So I would say the manufacturers are responding to the need for increased speed.
The N450 is a hot little chip. The machines I've used with one were about as snappy as a well-performing laptop of 5 years ago.
For many of us that reason is the glare from the mbp 13" glass, had there been an anti glare option i would have been the perfect replacement for the old pbook, a proper pbook 12" replacemnt for people who want to work instead of kids who want to watch dark blacks in movies...
It's one of those few things about apple that is incomprehensible to me, why they are not offering a matte option, and they are letting their market erode to the sony's and the lenovo's just for a friggin screen. And I don't think it's in order to push people to buy the 15" model...
A monumental fail this choice to me.
Steve, eventually, please take note of that, at last, damn it.
Why is it incomprehensible? Have you seen the quarterly results for sales of MacBook pros with shiny screens? Fabulous numbers.
I used to want a MacBook Air. A light weight laptop that I could easily carry with me. But not anymore. The iPad - at least for me - has filled that hole. I still have a MacBook Pro for when I do need the full laptop experience but I find that most of the time all I need is the iPad which is lighter, easier to carry and a lot cheaper than an Air.
If you want power I'd recommend a MacBook Pro. If you want portability I'd recommend the iPad. Even better - buy both. I no longer see the need for the MacBook Air.
I can't imagine why Apple would think a 11.6" screen is something consumers would want... 13.3" is pretty small as it is.
I think it makes sense, actually. The MacBook Air was always about one thing, and one thing only: To make as light and as compact an ultraportable laptop as the laws of physics would allow. The first MacBook Air pioneered Apple's new UniBody manufacturing process, and since then they've accquired even more experience with (cost-effective) UniBody design with the iPad, and pushing the boundaries of compacting with the iPhone 4.
While most people were enarmoured with the sleek design of the MacBook Air it had two major things against it: Overpriced and underpowered. I think Apple can improve on both accounts with todays technology. For power the new Intel Core i3's are a much better match for an ultraportable than any of the Intel CoreDuos back in its day. Even from a price perspective. The UniBody manufacturing proces which used to be something exotic that came at a premium with the first two models of the MacBook Air, has now become standard procedure for Apple's manufacturing partner. That brings the production costs down, and allows for a lower retail price while keeping Apple's (high) profit margin on the MacBook Air.
The MacBook Air's claim to fame was always its extreme lightness and small size. It's only logical for Apple to take that hallmark one step further and shrink its ultraportable to 11,6" to differentiate it further from the (standard) 13" MacBook Pro.
Next time Steve won't pull the MacBook Air out of a Manila envelope, but a standard size white C4 envelope! Just you wait and see.
i don´t think you can put a full size keyboard alongside an 11.6 display
Having actually measured with a measuring tape, I have no doubt that Apple can put the current keyboard into an 11.6" MBA.
I wouldn't replace my pbook 12" which already has about a cm more vertical real estate than the 13" air with an even smaller v. screen size model, no way.
I replaced my 12" PowerBook with a MBA that had 32 pixels more vertical real estate. 1280x800 trumps 1024x768 and will continue to do so when the former is 11.6". Unfortunately, I had to give up my MBA because 2GB of ram made it nearly unusable for me.
Unless you're a waif model, at this point there is absolutely no reason to get the Air instead of the MBP 13.
Rubbish! Many of us fight the 8kg weight limit for airline carry-on bags several times per week. A reduction in weight is worth about $1000 per 100g to me.
a $799 11.6" MBA
ROTFLMAO! I cannot imagine a MBA priced below $1199.
The width of a 11.6" 16:10 display is 9.84" across and the width of the 12.1" 4:3 display is 9.67", or 0.17" wider than the 12" PB. The only issue may be the death of the multi-touch trackpad.
PS: After doing all these calculations based on this 11.6" display size and assuming a 16:10 aspect ratio it seems to me there is enough circumstantial evidence at makes this an ideal for all hinges discussed. Therefore I'm heavily leaning toward this being likely. Now, what do you think is likely for the other HW?
I'm expecting the new MBA to include:
- 1280x800 at a pixel density similar to that of the 17" and new 15" MBPs
- exactly the same keyboard used in current Apple laptops
- multitouch trackpad
- 4GB of ram directly on the motherboard
- 128GB (low-end model) and 256GB (high end model) SSD directly on the motherboard (no HD possibility)
- the above would give us the same upgradability that the iPad has, meaning lower weight, cost, thickness, and greater reliability
I guess it depends on which netbook. My HP netbook is a lot faster at most tasks than my iPad.
Could you please name a few?
I'm expecting the new MBA to include:
- 1280x800 at a pixel density similar to that of the 17" and new 15" MBPs
The pixel density of the 1280x800 13.3? MB/MBP/MBA is already slightly higher than the 15? MBP and slightly lower than the 17? MBP. If you consider the high-resolution display, which I mentioned earlier, then a 1280x800 11.6? display would equate to that BTO option.