How do you know they aren?t fact checking? It sounds like you are saying ?if they don?t reveal their source it?s because they don?t have one to reveal.? An anonymous source is still a source, and if this source has set a precedence by correct in the past why should they not trust it simply because this person wants anonymity.
Besides there being a lot of anecdotal evidence building up the WSJ and NYT articles that made me think a CDMA-based iPhone will be confirmed come January-ish, I don?t recall for the last 3 years of this Verizon iPhone rumour that either of these papers have made such bold claims about it being a done deal. So why now after so long would they finally jump into the fray with ?unfactual? reporting? Why would NYT also put the foot into the ring if they thought the WSJ was just making crap up? I think NYT source got to them a little later than they hoped and the WSJ had already scoped them.
read any news release that's talking about the iphone on verizon and citing either the NYT or WSJ. The honest ones will say they could not confirm it independantly, most will just leave a link to the main article. that's NOT fact checking. I'm not talking about NYT and WSJ as not fact checking though, I'm talking about all the others who picked up the story. Even if a reputable journal posts something, you still want to fact check it. These other news sites haven't, and they can't. And yet they report it like they know it's a done deal as well. It's shoddy journalism at best. NYT and WSJ don't have to reveal their source, but they have to give more than "we talked to someone in the know" someone in the know could be the janitor at the diner that exec's secretaries like to frequent for all we know.
WSJ and Bloomberg both said verizon was getting the iphone in june 2010, and the WSJ said verizon would be launch partner for ipad. Neither of which was true.
NYT doesn't have a direct source, they have a source who has a source. And they posted their own article because the quickest way to get noticed is to publish an Iphone on verizon rumor.
January makes NO sense for Verizon or for apple. It's contrary to what apple typically does, and it's just stupid for a carrier to launch an A list device in January or February. Those are the WORST months of phone sales.
A CDMA iPhone is coming. It's called the asian market. There is nothing short of "we have a source or a source of a source who we will tell you nothing about" level stories.
January makes NO sense for Verizon or for apple. It's contrary to what apple typically does, and it's just stupid for a carrier to launch an A list device in January or February. Those are the WORST months of phone sales.
Mid-cycle announcement makes the most sense for this rumoured device. Apple has more than enough trouble producing the GSM/UMTS version and dealing with sales for once carrier in the US.
Quote:
A CDMA iPhone is coming. It's called the asian market. There is nothing short of "we have a source or a source of a source who we will tell you nothing about" level stories.
So you think Apple will make a CDMA/EV-DO iPhone for Asian market when ignore the single largest CDMA/EV-DO customer base capable of buying this device? You?ll have to formulate an argument as to why you think that makes sense? How many CDMA/EV-DO networks in Asia do you need to combine to equal the number of subs on Verizon, excluding Sprint and ignoring the likely higher percentage of sales per total subs for the US market?
NYT doesn't have a direct source, they have a source who has a source. And they posted their own article because the quickest way to get noticed is to publish an Iphone on verizon rumor.
.
They had a source. He just wasnt from Apple.
"After more than three years of using only AT&T cellphone networks, Apple is now making a version of the iPhone 4 for Verizon’s network, according to a person who is in direct contact with Apple. Apple and Verizon will begin selling the phone early next year, said the person, who agreed to speak on condition of anonymity because the plans were supposed to be confidential and he did not want to alienate his contacts at Apple."
The NYT were not talking to Bozo the Clown, or s junior engineer. It would have been an executive in some company related to the deal.
As for the hostility here - just dont get it. Apple are stuck, all year, at about 28% of the smartphone market in the US. AT&T have 25% of all US mobilesubscribers ( clearly AT&T has more smart phone subscribers than the average carrier, possibly because of the iPhone).
But there it is, they are stuck. Android is catching up, or caught up, but in the US only. Apple pulled ahead of android in Europe Y-O-Y ( I posed these stats in another thread). But that is not reported.
The US is important. It is headline news. Apple will move to Verizon to they want to get into pole position again. Which they can if they are on all carriers. it isnt that much of a stretch to believe that the iphone in the US will go to 40% of the entire market - a mere 12% more - across all carriers.
CDMA is dead tech and 4G is on the way. Apple isn't going to take their flagship product and release a version that does LESS than it's predecessor. Maybe we'll see a T-Mobile iPhone since they use similar tech. But a Verizon CDMA iPhone doesn't help Apple or Verizon so it doesn't make sense.
What's important to Apple is selling mobile telephones. Why it would matter to them whether it's CDMA or GSM (another 'dead' technology) is rather irrelevant, IMHO. Further, who's to say the phone will do less, anyway? If you mean no simultaneous voice and data then you could be entirely wrong on that point.
"After more than three years of using only AT&T cellphone networks, Apple is now making a version of the iPhone 4 for Verizon’s network, according to a person who is in direct contact with Apple. Apple and Verizon will begin selling the phone early next year, said the person, who agreed to speak on condition of anonymity because the plans were supposed to be confidential and he did not want to alienate his contacts at Apple."
The NYT were not talking to Bozo the Clown, or s junior engineer. It would have been an executive in some company related to the deal.
As for the hostility here - just dont get it. Apple are stuck, all year, at about 28% of the smartphone market in the US. AT&T have 25% of all US mobilesubscribers ( clearly AT&T has more smart phone subscribers than the average carrier, possibly because of the iPhone).
But there it is, they are stuck. Android is catching up, or caught up, but in the US only. Apple pulled ahead of android in Europe Y-O-Y ( I posed these stats in another thread). But that is not reported.
The US is important. It is headline news. Apple will move to Verizon to they want to get into pole position again. Which they can if they are on all carriers. it isnt that much of a stretch to believe that the iphone in the US will go to 40% of the entire market - a mere 12% more - across all carriers.
Why there is such hostility to this I dont know.
hostility ??? where ??
in the end of the day or end of jan 2011.
We shall see
Yet T-MOBILE SPRINT may get the call !!!!
Or apple sells unlocked full priced phones direct to us/you .
and you/me find a carrier.
OR apple becomes a secondary gatekeeper / wifi keeper for the new cmda model and apple find us cheap minutes ...
It all comes together with the Verizon LTE announcement, typical Apple to leap frog competition again. It is not going to be simply iPhone 4 on Verizon 3G network.
and because of iPhone 4G on LTE it is going to be huge disruptive force in the mobile space.
Mid-cycle announcement makes the most sense for this rumoured device. Apple has more than enough trouble producing the GSM/UMTS version and dealing with sales for once carrier in the US.
Please tell me the last high end consumer device announced and launched in January that sold well.
January is NOT a good month to launch a device. Heck, even apple knows this. They announced the Ipad in the winter, but waited months before they finally sold it. That works for a off contract device, but NO carrier would agree to that for a hotly anticipated device, especially one like Verizon, which has no pressing need for an iPhone.
All of you arguments are based off of how beneficial any release of the iphone on verizon's network would be for Apple, which is true. But the same cannot be said for Verizon, and they are the ones who would control any negotiations atm.
Quote:
So you think Apple will make a CDMA/EV-DO iPhone for Asian market when ignore the single largest CDMA/EV-DO customer base capable of buying this device? You?ll have to formulate an argument as to why you think that makes sense? How many CDMA/EV-DO networks in Asia do you need to combine to equal the number of subs on Verizon, excluding Sprint and ignoring the likely higher percentage of sales per total subs for the US market?
Verizon doesn't need the iphone. Their Data, ARPU, and net subscribers continue to grow without it, and grow signifigantly without being forced to agree to apple's insane sale agreements. Android (and I'm assuming Blackberry, Winmo, and palm) are all a lot more profitable than the iPhone. Most of the people who "need" an iphone already left (and their churn keeps going down) and the people who want one on verizon will continue holding out for it (aka, still pay verizon) or give up and get another device (pay verizon even more than if they actually got a verizon iphone).
Contrast that to Apple, where they basically have the Userbase they're going to get unless they change something in the US. People who NEEDED the device already jumped ship for it. There are a lot of others on other carriers who want the device, but they won't leave the carrier for it (they're more loyal to the carrier than apple). So if apple wants to expand, they need to go to other carriers. This means that they are the ones who have to give up on some of their demands and some of their control.
So if Apple approached Verizon and said "you meet our terms and you can launch a phone in January," Verizon would laugh at them. If they did somehow work out a January launch, they'd be giving up signifigant control to get that demand... do you see apple doing that?
It's BECAUSE Verizon's potential market is so big that I don't see any truth to a january rumor, not in spite of it. Anyone who deals with carriers would see the same.
Please tell me the last high end consumer device announced and launched in January that sold well.
So they announce in Jan, and sell in feb.
Quote:
Verizon doesn't need the iphone. Their Data, ARPU, and net subscribers continue to grow without it, and grow signifigantly without being forced to agree to apple's insane sale agreements.
WHo knows what Apple's sales agreement with Verizon will be, probably not that onerous if they need to get on Verizon more than Verizon needs them. As to what beneifts it will bring Verizon - the people who defect over time from AT&T with their iPhones, or get the new iPhone when out of contract. The cachet of having an iPhone on their network. The higher data rate of iPhone users.
"After more than three years of using only AT&T cellphone networks, Apple is now making a version of the iPhone 4 for Verizon?s network, according to a person who is in direct contact with Apple. Apple and Verizon will begin selling the phone early next year, said the person, who agreed to speak on condition of anonymity because the plans were supposed to be confidential and he did not want to alienate his contacts at Apple."
The NYT were not talking to Bozo the Clown, or s junior engineer. It would have been an executive in some company related to the deal.
As for the hostility here - just dont get it. Apple are stuck, all year, at about 28% of the smartphone market in the US. AT&T have 25% of all US mobilesubscribers ( clearly AT&T has more smart phone subscribers than the average carrier, possibly because of the iPhone).
But there it is, they are stuck. Android is catching up, or caught up, but in the US only. Apple pulled ahead of android in Europe Y-O-Y ( I posed these stats in another thread). But that is not reported.
The US is important. It is headline news. Apple will move to Verizon to they want to get into pole position again. Which they can if they are on all carriers. it isnt that much of a stretch to believe that the iphone in the US will go to 40% of the entire market - a mere 12% more - across all carriers.
Why there is such hostility to this I dont know.
The NYT also reported from "someone familiar with the negitiations" that Apple and verizon would have a deal worked out by the end of 2009 Didn't happen.
WSJ, Bloomberg, etc all claimed to have this information for well placed sources. None of their predictions from these highly placed sources came true either.
I'm not hostile, I'm frustrated and maybe a little confused. One of these rumors literally pops up EVERY SINGLE MONTH and every time it does, people run around saying that this time it will happen, and this time it's real. And when it doesn't happen, they just latch onto the next rumor. WHY?
If I told you that whenever you stuck a fork in a socket you would get a thousand dollars and it didn't happen after you tried it every month for four years straight.. why do you keep trying it?
If the iphone is that great of a device, get it on att. If Verizon is that great of a carrier, get another device on their network. Holding out for something that's been promised but never shown for FOUR YEARS makes no sense.
Please tell me a single high end device (especially a phone) that was announced in jan, sold in feb and was a smashing sucess. again. it DOESNT MAKE SENSE. not to mention if they announce in january, they'll still have returns.
Please actually think a bit before you reply.
Quote:
WHo knows what Apple's sales agreement with Verizon will be, probably not that onerous if they need to get on Verizon more than Verizon needs them. As to what beneifts it will bring Verizon - the people who defect over time from AT&T with their iPhones, or get the new iPhone when out of contract. The cachet of having an iPhone on their network. The higher data rate of iPhone users.
And nothing you listed can't be accomplished with Android, often for a much lower cost.
There is a deal coming sometime. but they will NOT release a phone in the winter. That is like opening up a Christmas store in January.
The NYT also reported from "someone familiar with the negitiations" that Apple and verizon would have a deal worked out by the end of 2009 Didn't happen.
Have you got a link to that?
In any case you argument is that the past is prelude. It is entirely possible that negotiations have been on-going for more than a year but have broken down - last year Android was nowhere, this year Apple need to get on other carriers to grow, simple as. I expect the terms will favour Verizon, at least by Apple's historical standards.
Anyway, now we have multiple sources, sources from component makers, and so on. The noise is getting too deafening to ignore. I think, it is true. I hope it is true. Maybe the hope clouds my judgement, dunno
( you are right, however, that it is better - now - for Apple than Verizon to get the iPhone on Verizon, but both will benefit)
Please tell me a single high end device (especially a phone) that was announced in jan, sold in feb and was a smashing sucess. again. it DOESNT MAKE SENSE. not to mention if they announce in january, they'll still have returns.
Please actually think a bit before you reply.
And nothing you listed can't be accomplished with Android, often for a much lower cost.
There is a deal coming sometime. but they will NOT release a phone in the winter. That is like opening up a Christmas store in January.
You are obsessed with the Phones dont sell in the Winter thing, which is a giant big red herring. As far as I can see this year Apple sold as much Jan-March as the previous quarter. So theres my answer. When the thing is announced is probably irrelevant. If they announce in Jan and sell in March are you happy? What about April?
The thing that I listed that can't accomplished with Android was the number of people waiting for an iPhone to defect from AT&T. There is clear evidence that people will defect from Androids if they could. And from AT&T if they could.
The "deal coming sometime" is ass covering. You were apparantly denying all rmours but now a deal will come, just not mid-winter.
The rest of us are not really that concerned with the actual dates. Just that it will happen.
It all comes together with the Verizon LTE announcement, typical Apple to leap frog competition again. It is not going to be simply iPhone 4 on Verizon 3G network.
and because of iPhone 4G on LTE it is going to be huge disruptive force in the mobile space.
No.
A change in the telephony chip means a change in the revision. No LTE iPhone would be an iPhone 4. The entire logic board would have to be completely rebuilt.
The iPhone 4 is the iPhone 4. The iPhone 5 COULD be LTE.
A change in the telephony chip means a change in the revision. No LTE iPhone would be an iPhone 4. The entire logic board would have to be completely rebuilt.
The iPhone 4 is the iPhone 4. The iPhone 5 COULD be LTE.
Plus I presume iOS will need pretty large update just to do CDMA. In some ways it makes sense to get the CDMA version out there and do LTE a bit later. How ever, that does not mean the chips would not be in there, but that doesn't follow apples basic pattern... So far.
But who knows, its a nice soap opera, it's like general hospital for tech nerds.
You are obsessed with the Phones dont sell in the Winter thing, which is a giant big red herring. As far as I can see this year Apple sold as much Jan-March as the previous quarter. So theres my answer. When the thing is announced is probably irrelevant. If they announce in Jan and sell in March are you happy? What about April?
The thing that I listed that can't accomplished with Android was the number of people waiting for an iPhone to defect from AT&T. There is clear evidence that people will defect from Androids if they could. And from AT&T if they could.
The "deal coming sometime" is ass covering. You were apparantly denying all rmours but now a deal will come, just not mid-winter.
The rest of us are not really that concerned with the actual dates. Just that it will happen.
And your still acting like Apple's the only one that matter. It's not, it's not even the most important, Verizon is. Winter launches DO NOT MAKE SENSE for a carrier. period. And announcing it MONTHS in advance also harms the carriers sales signifigantly. again, it doesn't make sense.
Customers coming from Android nets verizon LESS money not more.
And the iphone selling that well was a device already a year old. it wasn't a NEW device. new devices don't launc in january because launch numbers are everything.
And I'm not covering. An iphone on Verizon makes sense, but I'm not going to believe any rumors unless they have leaked internal documents or actual devices, and even then it will be suspect until steve announces it.
And I'm not covering. An iphone on Verizon makes sense, but I'm not going to believe any rumors unless they have leaked internal documents or actual devices, and even then it will be suspect until steve announces it.
I think you will only believe it a full 5 days after Steve announces it :-)
just to be sure.
Well if the difference here is one of release dates, it is a storm in a tea cup.
You can love them or hate them. But you should at least try to appreciate what Apple is trying to do.
Everyone will continue saying that they have a walled garden approach, that they want true freedom. If the Carriers would continue running the show. Would that give you the freedom to choose everything to your liking or would someone else control that?
Apple has always believed that their approach is better. Most people coming from a Microsoft mindset would prefer that approach. That has also been the Carriers approach. But there is a reason for that. They maintain control.
You can start seeing how Verizon is trying to strong arm control away from Android.
We would all love for the cost of having a cell phone to come down in price. I believe that it will eventually plateau at around $50.00 with call service being done thru Voip, and the carriers providing the Data connection needed.
At the moment Apple is our best hope to make that happen sooner rather than later.
I believe that the control staredown between Verizon and Google/Android has already been won by Verizon.
I also kinda believe that Google will look into taking better advantage of the White Space availability,
(perhaps even spending some 'dinero' on placing the needed hardware on the existing towers to make it
doable. I am sure that deep down they themselves don't believe the sincerity of Verizon's open speak.)
I also believe that Apple is just letting news come out about them making a Verizon capable phone in the now future. This way once the phone is announced and Sprint and other CDMA users worldwide start having them available. The uproar of all the people waiting for it on Verizon will make it known. They want to have the phone as is.
Steve Jobs,(I can not believe) will blink and let Verizon have their way. We will appreciate that.
In any case you argument is that the past is prelude. It is entirely possible that negotiations have been on-going for more than a year but have broken down - last year Android was nowhere, this year Apple need to get on other carriers to grow, simple as. I expect the terms will favour Verizon, at least by Apple's historical standards.
Anyway, now we have multiple sources, sources from component makers, and so on. The noise is getting too deafening to ignore. I think, it is true. I hope it is true. Maybe the hope clouds my judgement, dunno
( you are right, however, that it is better - now - for Apple than Verizon to get the iPhone on Verizon, but both will benefit)
We don't have a ton of sources. There are TWO. one for the WSJ and another for the NYT, both times their other sources (if they're not the same people) have been wrong.
Other sources, reputable sources, have claimed that verizon was getting an apple phone in 2007, 2008, 2009, and this year in June. They've ALL BEEN WRONG. They've all quoted sources, including hardware makers. Your judgement is clouded. You WANT this to be true, so no matter how often people sell you this rumor, and no matter how much it stinks of shit you'll continue believing them that THIS time things will be different.
Again, there are no device mockups, there are no internal documents, there isn't even verizon iphone branded Anything. Just the word of faceless sources who have been wrong in the past.
Please tell me the last high end consumer device announced and launched in January that sold well.
The rule is you don't introduce new products during the holiday season. There are reasons for this. There is no legitimate rule that says you shouldn't introduce products during the winter months (Dec. to Feb.). Note than winter in the southern hemisphere is May to July.
Here are some products from Apple that launched during winter months. I had thought to list them all but decided that to waste that much time listed dozens and dozens of products is pointless when you choose not believe something without even the faintest consideration of making sure you were in any way correct.
January 24, 1984 ? THE FIRST FRAKING MAC WENT ON SALE
What you don?t see is anything from Apple launched in December and hardly anything in their entire history launched in November. The ones that are (I only looked at modern releases) are launched at the beginning of November, weeks before the busiest shopping day of the year in th US occurs.
Again, don?t think holiday shopping season equates to winter and therefore a January release is bad. In fact, CES, MacWorld and others take advantage of the lull after the holidays buy introducing new products. The problem is trying to change gears from the end of the quarter holiday sales rush to trying to show you all the new products as quickly as possible.
Comments
How do you know they aren?t fact checking? It sounds like you are saying ?if they don?t reveal their source it?s because they don?t have one to reveal.? An anonymous source is still a source, and if this source has set a precedence by correct in the past why should they not trust it simply because this person wants anonymity.
Besides there being a lot of anecdotal evidence building up the WSJ and NYT articles that made me think a CDMA-based iPhone will be confirmed come January-ish, I don?t recall for the last 3 years of this Verizon iPhone rumour that either of these papers have made such bold claims about it being a done deal. So why now after so long would they finally jump into the fray with ?unfactual? reporting? Why would NYT also put the foot into the ring if they thought the WSJ was just making crap up? I think NYT source got to them a little later than they hoped and the WSJ had already scoped them.
read any news release that's talking about the iphone on verizon and citing either the NYT or WSJ. The honest ones will say they could not confirm it independantly, most will just leave a link to the main article. that's NOT fact checking. I'm not talking about NYT and WSJ as not fact checking though, I'm talking about all the others who picked up the story. Even if a reputable journal posts something, you still want to fact check it. These other news sites haven't, and they can't. And yet they report it like they know it's a done deal as well. It's shoddy journalism at best. NYT and WSJ don't have to reveal their source, but they have to give more than "we talked to someone in the know" someone in the know could be the janitor at the diner that exec's secretaries like to frequent for all we know.
WSJ and Bloomberg both said verizon was getting the iphone in june 2010, and the WSJ said verizon would be launch partner for ipad. Neither of which was true.
NYT doesn't have a direct source, they have a source who has a source. And they posted their own article because the quickest way to get noticed is to publish an Iphone on verizon rumor.
January makes NO sense for Verizon or for apple. It's contrary to what apple typically does, and it's just stupid for a carrier to launch an A list device in January or February. Those are the WORST months of phone sales.
A CDMA iPhone is coming. It's called the asian market. There is nothing short of "we have a source or a source of a source who we will tell you nothing about" level stories.
January makes NO sense for Verizon or for apple. It's contrary to what apple typically does, and it's just stupid for a carrier to launch an A list device in January or February. Those are the WORST months of phone sales.
Mid-cycle announcement makes the most sense for this rumoured device. Apple has more than enough trouble producing the GSM/UMTS version and dealing with sales for once carrier in the US.
A CDMA iPhone is coming. It's called the asian market. There is nothing short of "we have a source or a source of a source who we will tell you nothing about" level stories.
So you think Apple will make a CDMA/EV-DO iPhone for Asian market when ignore the single largest CDMA/EV-DO customer base capable of buying this device? You?ll have to formulate an argument as to why you think that makes sense? How many CDMA/EV-DO networks in Asia do you need to combine to equal the number of subs on Verizon, excluding Sprint and ignoring the likely higher percentage of sales per total subs for the US market?
NYT doesn't have a direct source, they have a source who has a source. And they posted their own article because the quickest way to get noticed is to publish an Iphone on verizon rumor.
.
They had a source. He just wasnt from Apple.
"After more than three years of using only AT&T cellphone networks, Apple is now making a version of the iPhone 4 for Verizon’s network, according to a person who is in direct contact with Apple. Apple and Verizon will begin selling the phone early next year, said the person, who agreed to speak on condition of anonymity because the plans were supposed to be confidential and he did not want to alienate his contacts at Apple."
The NYT were not talking to Bozo the Clown, or s junior engineer. It would have been an executive in some company related to the deal.
As for the hostility here - just dont get it. Apple are stuck, all year, at about 28% of the smartphone market in the US. AT&T have 25% of all US mobilesubscribers ( clearly AT&T has more smart phone subscribers than the average carrier, possibly because of the iPhone).
But there it is, they are stuck. Android is catching up, or caught up, but in the US only. Apple pulled ahead of android in Europe Y-O-Y ( I posed these stats in another thread). But that is not reported.
The US is important. It is headline news. Apple will move to Verizon to they want to get into pole position again. Which they can if they are on all carriers. it isnt that much of a stretch to believe that the iphone in the US will go to 40% of the entire market - a mere 12% more - across all carriers.
Why there is such hostility to this I dont know.
CDMA is dead tech and 4G is on the way. Apple isn't going to take their flagship product and release a version that does LESS than it's predecessor. Maybe we'll see a T-Mobile iPhone since they use similar tech. But a Verizon CDMA iPhone doesn't help Apple or Verizon so it doesn't make sense.
What's important to Apple is selling mobile telephones. Why it would matter to them whether it's CDMA or GSM (another 'dead' technology) is rather irrelevant, IMHO. Further, who's to say the phone will do less, anyway? If you mean no simultaneous voice and data then you could be entirely wrong on that point.
They had a source. He just wasnt from Apple.
"After more than three years of using only AT&T cellphone networks, Apple is now making a version of the iPhone 4 for Verizon’s network, according to a person who is in direct contact with Apple. Apple and Verizon will begin selling the phone early next year, said the person, who agreed to speak on condition of anonymity because the plans were supposed to be confidential and he did not want to alienate his contacts at Apple."
The NYT were not talking to Bozo the Clown, or s junior engineer. It would have been an executive in some company related to the deal.
As for the hostility here - just dont get it. Apple are stuck, all year, at about 28% of the smartphone market in the US. AT&T have 25% of all US mobilesubscribers ( clearly AT&T has more smart phone subscribers than the average carrier, possibly because of the iPhone).
But there it is, they are stuck. Android is catching up, or caught up, but in the US only. Apple pulled ahead of android in Europe Y-O-Y ( I posed these stats in another thread). But that is not reported.
The US is important. It is headline news. Apple will move to Verizon to they want to get into pole position again. Which they can if they are on all carriers. it isnt that much of a stretch to believe that the iphone in the US will go to 40% of the entire market - a mere 12% more - across all carriers.
Why there is such hostility to this I dont know.
hostility ??? where ??
in the end of the day or end of jan 2011.
We shall see
Yet T-MOBILE SPRINT may get the call !!!!
Or apple sells unlocked full priced phones direct to us/you .
and you/me find a carrier.
OR apple becomes a secondary gatekeeper / wifi keeper for the new cmda model and apple find us cheap minutes ...
In the end if happens
we GET to choose who gets to drop our calls....
That new server farm may make this true...
or not
9
iPhone 4G for LTE
It all comes together with the Verizon LTE announcement, typical Apple to leap frog competition again. It is not going to be simply iPhone 4 on Verizon 3G network.
and because of iPhone 4G on LTE it is going to be huge disruptive force in the mobile space.
Mid-cycle announcement makes the most sense for this rumoured device. Apple has more than enough trouble producing the GSM/UMTS version and dealing with sales for once carrier in the US.
Please tell me the last high end consumer device announced and launched in January that sold well.
January is NOT a good month to launch a device. Heck, even apple knows this. They announced the Ipad in the winter, but waited months before they finally sold it. That works for a off contract device, but NO carrier would agree to that for a hotly anticipated device, especially one like Verizon, which has no pressing need for an iPhone.
All of you arguments are based off of how beneficial any release of the iphone on verizon's network would be for Apple, which is true. But the same cannot be said for Verizon, and they are the ones who would control any negotiations atm.
So you think Apple will make a CDMA/EV-DO iPhone for Asian market when ignore the single largest CDMA/EV-DO customer base capable of buying this device? You?ll have to formulate an argument as to why you think that makes sense? How many CDMA/EV-DO networks in Asia do you need to combine to equal the number of subs on Verizon, excluding Sprint and ignoring the likely higher percentage of sales per total subs for the US market?
Verizon doesn't need the iphone. Their Data, ARPU, and net subscribers continue to grow without it, and grow signifigantly without being forced to agree to apple's insane sale agreements. Android (and I'm assuming Blackberry, Winmo, and palm) are all a lot more profitable than the iPhone. Most of the people who "need" an iphone already left (and their churn keeps going down) and the people who want one on verizon will continue holding out for it (aka, still pay verizon) or give up and get another device (pay verizon even more than if they actually got a verizon iphone).
Contrast that to Apple, where they basically have the Userbase they're going to get unless they change something in the US. People who NEEDED the device already jumped ship for it. There are a lot of others on other carriers who want the device, but they won't leave the carrier for it (they're more loyal to the carrier than apple). So if apple wants to expand, they need to go to other carriers. This means that they are the ones who have to give up on some of their demands and some of their control.
So if Apple approached Verizon and said "you meet our terms and you can launch a phone in January," Verizon would laugh at them. If they did somehow work out a January launch, they'd be giving up signifigant control to get that demand... do you see apple doing that?
It's BECAUSE Verizon's potential market is so big that I don't see any truth to a january rumor, not in spite of it. Anyone who deals with carriers would see the same.
Please tell me the last high end consumer device announced and launched in January that sold well.
So they announce in Jan, and sell in feb.
Verizon doesn't need the iphone. Their Data, ARPU, and net subscribers continue to grow without it, and grow signifigantly without being forced to agree to apple's insane sale agreements.
WHo knows what Apple's sales agreement with Verizon will be, probably not that onerous if they need to get on Verizon more than Verizon needs them. As to what beneifts it will bring Verizon - the people who defect over time from AT&T with their iPhones, or get the new iPhone when out of contract. The cachet of having an iPhone on their network. The higher data rate of iPhone users.
They had a source. He just wasnt from Apple.
"After more than three years of using only AT&T cellphone networks, Apple is now making a version of the iPhone 4 for Verizon?s network, according to a person who is in direct contact with Apple. Apple and Verizon will begin selling the phone early next year, said the person, who agreed to speak on condition of anonymity because the plans were supposed to be confidential and he did not want to alienate his contacts at Apple."
The NYT were not talking to Bozo the Clown, or s junior engineer. It would have been an executive in some company related to the deal.
As for the hostility here - just dont get it. Apple are stuck, all year, at about 28% of the smartphone market in the US. AT&T have 25% of all US mobilesubscribers ( clearly AT&T has more smart phone subscribers than the average carrier, possibly because of the iPhone).
But there it is, they are stuck. Android is catching up, or caught up, but in the US only. Apple pulled ahead of android in Europe Y-O-Y ( I posed these stats in another thread). But that is not reported.
The US is important. It is headline news. Apple will move to Verizon to they want to get into pole position again. Which they can if they are on all carriers. it isnt that much of a stretch to believe that the iphone in the US will go to 40% of the entire market - a mere 12% more - across all carriers.
Why there is such hostility to this I dont know.
The NYT also reported from "someone familiar with the negitiations" that Apple and verizon would have a deal worked out by the end of 2009 Didn't happen.
WSJ, Bloomberg, etc all claimed to have this information for well placed sources. None of their predictions from these highly placed sources came true either.
I'm not hostile, I'm frustrated and maybe a little confused. One of these rumors literally pops up EVERY SINGLE MONTH and every time it does, people run around saying that this time it will happen, and this time it's real. And when it doesn't happen, they just latch onto the next rumor. WHY?
If I told you that whenever you stuck a fork in a socket you would get a thousand dollars and it didn't happen after you tried it every month for four years straight.. why do you keep trying it?
If the iphone is that great of a device, get it on att. If Verizon is that great of a carrier, get another device on their network. Holding out for something that's been promised but never shown for FOUR YEARS makes no sense.
So they announce in Jan, and sell in feb.
Please tell me a single high end device (especially a phone) that was announced in jan, sold in feb and was a smashing sucess. again. it DOESNT MAKE SENSE. not to mention if they announce in january, they'll still have returns.
Please actually think a bit before you reply.
WHo knows what Apple's sales agreement with Verizon will be, probably not that onerous if they need to get on Verizon more than Verizon needs them. As to what beneifts it will bring Verizon - the people who defect over time from AT&T with their iPhones, or get the new iPhone when out of contract. The cachet of having an iPhone on their network. The higher data rate of iPhone users.
And nothing you listed can't be accomplished with Android, often for a much lower cost.
There is a deal coming sometime. but they will NOT release a phone in the winter. That is like opening up a Christmas store in January.
The NYT also reported from "someone familiar with the negitiations" that Apple and verizon would have a deal worked out by the end of 2009 Didn't happen.
Have you got a link to that?
In any case you argument is that the past is prelude. It is entirely possible that negotiations have been on-going for more than a year but have broken down - last year Android was nowhere, this year Apple need to get on other carriers to grow, simple as. I expect the terms will favour Verizon, at least by Apple's historical standards.
Anyway, now we have multiple sources, sources from component makers, and so on. The noise is getting too deafening to ignore. I think, it is true. I hope it is true. Maybe the hope clouds my judgement, dunno
( you are right, however, that it is better - now - for Apple than Verizon to get the iPhone on Verizon, but both will benefit)
Please tell me a single high end device (especially a phone) that was announced in jan, sold in feb and was a smashing sucess. again. it DOESNT MAKE SENSE. not to mention if they announce in january, they'll still have returns.
Please actually think a bit before you reply.
And nothing you listed can't be accomplished with Android, often for a much lower cost.
There is a deal coming sometime. but they will NOT release a phone in the winter. That is like opening up a Christmas store in January.
You are obsessed with the Phones dont sell in the Winter thing, which is a giant big red herring. As far as I can see this year Apple sold as much Jan-March as the previous quarter. So theres my answer. When the thing is announced is probably irrelevant. If they announce in Jan and sell in March are you happy? What about April?
The thing that I listed that can't accomplished with Android was the number of people waiting for an iPhone to defect from AT&T. There is clear evidence that people will defect from Androids if they could. And from AT&T if they could.
The "deal coming sometime" is ass covering. You were apparantly denying all rmours but now a deal will come, just not mid-winter.
The rest of us are not really that concerned with the actual dates. Just that it will happen.
You all are missing the big surprise....
iPhone 4G for LTE
It all comes together with the Verizon LTE announcement, typical Apple to leap frog competition again. It is not going to be simply iPhone 4 on Verizon 3G network.
and because of iPhone 4G on LTE it is going to be huge disruptive force in the mobile space.
No.
A change in the telephony chip means a change in the revision. No LTE iPhone would be an iPhone 4. The entire logic board would have to be completely rebuilt.
The iPhone 4 is the iPhone 4. The iPhone 5 COULD be LTE.
No.
A change in the telephony chip means a change in the revision. No LTE iPhone would be an iPhone 4. The entire logic board would have to be completely rebuilt.
The iPhone 4 is the iPhone 4. The iPhone 5 COULD be LTE.
Plus I presume iOS will need pretty large update just to do CDMA. In some ways it makes sense to get the CDMA version out there and do LTE a bit later. How ever, that does not mean the chips would not be in there, but that doesn't follow apples basic pattern... So far.
But who knows, its a nice soap opera, it's like general hospital for tech nerds.
You are obsessed with the Phones dont sell in the Winter thing, which is a giant big red herring. As far as I can see this year Apple sold as much Jan-March as the previous quarter. So theres my answer. When the thing is announced is probably irrelevant. If they announce in Jan and sell in March are you happy? What about April?
The thing that I listed that can't accomplished with Android was the number of people waiting for an iPhone to defect from AT&T. There is clear evidence that people will defect from Androids if they could. And from AT&T if they could.
The "deal coming sometime" is ass covering. You were apparantly denying all rmours but now a deal will come, just not mid-winter.
The rest of us are not really that concerned with the actual dates. Just that it will happen.
And your still acting like Apple's the only one that matter. It's not, it's not even the most important, Verizon is. Winter launches DO NOT MAKE SENSE for a carrier. period. And announcing it MONTHS in advance also harms the carriers sales signifigantly. again, it doesn't make sense.
Customers coming from Android nets verizon LESS money not more.
And the iphone selling that well was a device already a year old. it wasn't a NEW device. new devices don't launc in january because launch numbers are everything.
And I'm not covering. An iphone on Verizon makes sense, but I'm not going to believe any rumors unless they have leaked internal documents or actual devices, and even then it will be suspect until steve announces it.
And I'm not covering. An iphone on Verizon makes sense, but I'm not going to believe any rumors unless they have leaked internal documents or actual devices, and even then it will be suspect until steve announces it.
I think you will only believe it a full 5 days after Steve announces it :-)
just to be sure.
Well if the difference here is one of release dates, it is a storm in a tea cup.
Everyone will continue saying that they have a walled garden approach, that they want true freedom. If the Carriers would continue running the show. Would that give you the freedom to choose everything to your liking or would someone else control that?
Apple has always believed that their approach is better. Most people coming from a Microsoft mindset would prefer that approach. That has also been the Carriers approach. But there is a reason for that. They maintain control.
You can start seeing how Verizon is trying to strong arm control away from Android.
We would all love for the cost of having a cell phone to come down in price. I believe that it will eventually plateau at around $50.00 with call service being done thru Voip, and the carriers providing the Data connection needed.
At the moment Apple is our best hope to make that happen sooner rather than later.
I believe that the control staredown between Verizon and Google/Android has already been won by Verizon.
I also kinda believe that Google will look into taking better advantage of the White Space availability,
(perhaps even spending some 'dinero' on placing the needed hardware on the existing towers to make it
doable. I am sure that deep down they themselves don't believe the sincerity of Verizon's open speak.)
I also believe that Apple is just letting news come out about them making a Verizon capable phone in the now future. This way once the phone is announced and Sprint and other CDMA users worldwide start having them available. The uproar of all the people waiting for it on Verizon will make it known. They want to have the phone as is.
Steve Jobs,(I can not believe) will blink and let Verizon have their way. We will appreciate that.
Have you got a link to that?
In any case you argument is that the past is prelude. It is entirely possible that negotiations have been on-going for more than a year but have broken down - last year Android was nowhere, this year Apple need to get on other carriers to grow, simple as. I expect the terms will favour Verizon, at least by Apple's historical standards.
Anyway, now we have multiple sources, sources from component makers, and so on. The noise is getting too deafening to ignore. I think, it is true. I hope it is true. Maybe the hope clouds my judgement, dunno
( you are right, however, that it is better - now - for Apple than Verizon to get the iPhone on Verizon, but both will benefit)
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Verizon+iphone+New+York+Times+2009
We don't have a ton of sources. There are TWO. one for the WSJ and another for the NYT, both times their other sources (if they're not the same people) have been wrong.
Other sources, reputable sources, have claimed that verizon was getting an apple phone in 2007, 2008, 2009, and this year in June. They've ALL BEEN WRONG. They've all quoted sources, including hardware makers. Your judgement is clouded. You WANT this to be true, so no matter how often people sell you this rumor, and no matter how much it stinks of shit you'll continue believing them that THIS time things will be different.
Again, there are no device mockups, there are no internal documents, there isn't even verizon iphone branded Anything. Just the word of faceless sources who have been wrong in the past.
Until steve holds one up, everything is suspect
I think you will only believe it a full 5 days after Steve announces it :-)
just to be sure.
Well if the difference here is one of release dates, it is a storm in a tea cup.
There is zero difference between this rumor and those from the past 4 years.
Please tell me the last high end consumer device announced and launched in January that sold well.
The rule is you don't introduce new products during the holiday season. There are reasons for this. There is no legitimate rule that says you shouldn't introduce products during the winter months (Dec. to Feb.). Note than winter in the southern hemisphere is May to July.
Here are some products from Apple that launched during winter months. I had thought to list them all but decided that to waste that much time listed dozens and dozens of products is pointless when you choose not believe something without even the faintest consideration of making sure you were in any way correct.
- January 24, 1984 ? THE FIRST FRAKING MAC WENT ON SALE
- Many iPods launched in January and February: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPod#Models
- Many Macs launched in January and February: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ed_by_CPU_type
What you don?t see is anything from Apple launched in December and hardly anything in their entire history launched in November. The ones that are (I only looked at modern releases) are launched at the beginning of November, weeks before the busiest shopping day of the year in th US occurs.Again, don?t think holiday shopping season equates to winter and therefore a January release is bad. In fact, CES, MacWorld and others take advantage of the lull after the holidays buy introducing new products. The problem is trying to change gears from the end of the quarter holiday sales rush to trying to show you all the new products as quickly as possible.