Apple issues review guidelines for Mac App Store

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Comments

  • Reply 141 of 175
    newbeenewbee Posts: 2,055member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by strobe View Post


    Ever try to extract your money from Apple? They not only skim 30%, they with-hold another 30% until you can prove to them and the IRS it's yours.





    Ever work for a paycheck? Guess what, they withhold $$$ for income tax that you "might" have to give to the government. S.O.P. ... AFAIK

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by strobe View Post


    Anyway, even if you don't understand such implications Apple's initial 30% skim is enough to make this project a joke.



    Apparently there are 100s of thousands of developers who don't think so ... and then there's you ... Oh well.
  • Reply 142 of 175
    inklinginkling Posts: 731member
    Next week I'll be buying the long awaiting 2.0 version of Scrivener, a writer's tool. The developer has expressed an interest in getting on Apple's app store and that'd be a handy way for me to keep up-to-date.



    But how are he and I going to transition from a free-standing app to one that's on the store? Buying it all over again doesn't make much sense. Will existing owners be grandfathered into a store licensed one for free or a small fee? If so, how with that be done?
  • Reply 143 of 175
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pt123 View Post


    If you look at the Apple guidelines, there is no rule to prevent selling on multiple sites. I would think the "Apps may not use update mechanisms outside of the App Store" rule would be a bigger issue. Most of my apps have its own auto update mechanism. I already have the app so I wouldn't go buy it at the app store. They really would need 2 different versions.



    And why would any app have a link to the Apple app store? To go out of the way and pay 30% when it can be downloaded directly from version tracker?



    That's a good question. Why would Apple allow that?



    And if your interpretation is correct, that inclusion in the App Store is non-exclusive, then what's to prevent a developer from selling the same product at their web site for 30% less than the price in the App Store?



    That would seem the most sensible, so those customers who feel that the convenience of the installation and the illusion of greater security would be the ones picking up the tab for that, rather than requiring that their vendors surrender a third of their annual income to Steve Jobs.



    But is that really the case? Does Apple allow a developing submitting to the App Store to also sell anywhere else they like at any price?



    I'd double-check that before I based any business plans around it.
  • Reply 144 of 175
    pt123pt123 Posts: 696member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post


    That's a good question. Why would Apple allow that?



    And if your interpretation is correct, that inclusion in the App Store is non-exclusive, then what's to prevent a developer from selling the same product at their web site for 30% less than the price in the App Store?



    That would seem the most sensible, so those customers who feel that the convenience of the installation and the illusion of greater security would be the ones picking up the tab for that, rather than requiring that their vendors surrender a third of their annual income to Steve Jobs.



    But is that really the case? Does Apple allow a developing submitting to the App Store to also sell anywhere else they like at any price?



    I'd double-check that before I based any business plans around it.



    Sounds like Apple needs to update their guidelines?
  • Reply 145 of 175
    I think the more disturbing point going on here is the basic idea that the mac should be like iOS.



    Isn't the point of making iOS to make a good OS that works for small devices? Otherwise apple could have just squeezed the Mac into a small form factor and called it done. This direction even goes against previous comments by Steve that the reason microsoft failed in the mobile space was because they tried to squeeze windows into a small box instead of redesigning. Now they are going to go the other way, and take an OS that's clearly not an OS that works for the desktop and force people into it? Not good.



    Obviously there's a lot of hype going on in apple for iOS because that's where all apple's growth has been. Naturally it seems like iOS works so that's where development should go. But not all iOS features work on the desktop. Hopefully apple will get enough feedback to that affect before making any longterm critical mistakes.
  • Reply 146 of 175
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,304member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ktappe View Post


    This is indeed a rather massive pile of fail, as another poster said.



    If it was the sole way to install software on Mac OSX, you might have a point.



    Since it isn't, you assertion is just plain silly.
  • Reply 147 of 175
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,304member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post


    +1 Insightful



    -2 for baseless hope and extreme obtuseness
  • Reply 148 of 175
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,304member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by diddy View Post


    The kind of change that you outline is not a 180 - it's abandoning 30 years of precedent. It just won't happen that way - Jobs is too pragmatic.



    Pragmatic indeed - all the tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorists have yet to outline a cogent reason why Apple would desire to lock down Mac OSX or even think they could get away with it.



    Other than Apple is evil and loves to control things
  • Reply 149 of 175
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,304member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post


    The astute reader will note that I'm not the one who made an unsupportable claim. Thank you for proving my point.



    The astute reader will note that if it was such an unsupportable claim, you should be able to counter it trivially



    Thank you for proving my point.



    Quote:

    You wrote:



    A more astute reader would not that I did not write that, Akac did (whom you originally challenged with your inane challenge).



    So you challenged him for three, I ask again - provide just one that doesn't. Go for it.
  • Reply 150 of 175
    irelandireland Posts: 17,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by enjourni View Post


    I think the more disturbing point going on here is the basic idea that the mac should be like iOS.



    Isn't the point of making iOS to make a good OS that works for small devices? Otherwise apple could have just squeezed the Mac into a small form factor and called it done. This direction even goes against previous comments by Steve that the reason microsoft failed in the mobile space was because they tried to squeeze windows into a small box instead of redesigning. Now they are going to go the other way, and take an OS that's clearly not an OS that works for the desktop and force people into it? Not good.



    The idea here is to make OS X more simple. Having an App Store and a home for your apps is better. Having apps auto-save and auto-resume is better. They aren't simply trying to make OS X like iOS, they are just Trying to bring over some of the good ideas. That said, Lion looks very messy and is a pretty big let down in my opinion. They could have gone further and also better spent their time on different things like the dock.
  • Reply 151 of 175
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,304member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by strobe View Post


    Even if there was no policy against that, you won't see any non-Apple flagship products in the app store given the revenue split.



    It's not just the revenue split, established players like Microsoft and Adobe don't need the app store - their, well, large and established. Duh!



    If you weren't so busy trying to explain why the app store will fail because it doesn't fit all situations you might have noticed where Apple specifically said it's just another supplemental way for people to distribute software.



    Good god, I would hate to see the reactions for other new concepts try to be introduced to day. Just think if shareware suddenly was introduced for the first time to day - I can only imagine the hysterics and hand-wringing about how it threatens the value proposition for software developers and will drive the "race to the bottom".



    Ha! I finally figured out what sounds so familiar about the hysterics about the App Store - you people sound just like the RIAA whining about digital distribution. Talk about myopic!



    Let's see if we can get it across, yet again: It's an alternate software distribution method.



    That's it. Nothing more.



    It's another choice, not the end of Mac OSX as we know it The arguments otherwise don't even make sense - there is no advantage other than wild conspiracy theorist fantasies...
  • Reply 152 of 175
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,304member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by diddy View Post


    That alone should debunk the whole "the mac store is going to be the only option to install software someday" conspiracy theories [...] it would be nonsensical that they would even want to do this.



    No kidding.... excellent post!
  • Reply 153 of 175
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,304member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    Nevertheless it makes me nervous that Lion is headed to make the Mac a consumer focused machine at the detriment of the professional users.



    How is anything that has been demoed in Lion so far to "the detriment of the professional users"?
  • Reply 154 of 175
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,304member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post


    Firefox director says Apple is ?looking to bypass the web?

    http://www.slashgear.com/firefox-dir...-web-21109568/



    I would say the "Firefox director" is the victim of his own hubris. To imply Apple is bypassing the web would imply that the overwhelming majority of computing, happens "on the web" - and that's simply not true.



    He needs to stop reading the propaganda from Google and pay attention to reality more. When MS no longer mints money from Windows and Office hand over fist, he may have a point - until then he's merely suffering from a sever case of hyperbole.
  • Reply 155 of 175
    OFFTOPIC for a sec:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post


    Wow. If this happens once a month to you, you might want to consider purchasing an automatic password generator program and use that :-) You obviously don't know how to choose good passwords :-)



    Actually, I have that problem occasionally myself: see, my AppleID is my nickname, which I grabbed within minutes of Jobs announcing iTools/dotMac way back when. Suffice it to say its not uncommon.



    Someone has gotten the notion that it is the Apple ID/address they picked, so they keep trying to reset the password and I keep getting reset notifications. This has been going on for years now. I wish I knew what their actual mail address is to tell them to get a clue



    Back ON-TOPIC



    I'm probably shelling out 25% for backend and advertising, so a 5% difference for the additional 'foot-traffic' is a no-brainer. There's still a few (big) questions to be answered in the coming days and some thinking to do, as many apps will have to be tailored into/spin-off distinct AppStore versions in light of technical requirements and the 'family-pack' licensing/pricing equation.
  • Reply 156 of 175
    rbryanhrbryanh Posts: 263member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post


    At least the big developers don't have to use the store. Companies like Microsoft, Adobe, and Autodesk.



    And how unfortunate that is, given that they are precisely the companies most like to release self-serving interfaces that have nothing to do with the rest of the user's virtual environment. I've all the latest and greatest from the three companies you mention. AutoCAD for OS X is a true interface horror, and Office 2011 a disgraceful, bloated mess. Creative Suite 5 is tolerable, but at Adobe's obscenely inflated prices, tolerable is a long way from acceptable.
  • Reply 157 of 175
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,660member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tjw View Post


    Also app store on a computer, do people not realise that this has been available on linux like forever and all the software is frrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee



    This is clearly an attack on the browser. The first thing developers will do is create a native version of their web apps. All about trying to kick google ads off the mac as much as possible by making popular services available as apps with iAd included. Clever but completely the wrong direction.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lamewing View Post


    And Steve has NEVER backpedaled before or turned around 180 degrees on his past statements? Riiiight.



    Two years from now, this will be our only choice for software.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tjw View Post


    Simple, sandbox apps just like they do on the iphone. Make no mistake, if Jobs had the internet to easily install applications in an appstore from day 1 of the mac then he would have done. There would be no such thing as being able to install your own software



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mario View Post


    and it may be removed in future releases of OS X.



    http://developer.apple.com/library/m...010380-CH4-SW1



    First, no flash with the new Backbook Airs, then no Java, then app store and all the restrictions and then in a few more releases, no app installs outside of app store.



    Good bye OS X, it was a nice ride while it lasted.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by strobe View Post


    Even if there was no policy against that, you won't see any non-Apple flagship products in the app store given the revenue split.



    When MS sells you Office, your money goes directly into their account, not some Apple bank. Not only are their costs lower, but they handle their own taxes and pocket nearly all of it. Everyone else gets shafted by Apple and the IRS.



    Expect to see a lot of freeware and silly gimmicks on the app store. A race to the bottom. For useful commercial apps it will be an abysmal failure.



    I know Steve's wet dream is to sandbox the OS and only allow app store installs. It won't happen with Lion, but at some point there will be a sanitized iMac-OS like the iOS only for desktop Macs and it will be sandboxed and made to run on cheap hardware (possibly a netbook?). It won't be installed on Mac Pros initially (if they even exist at that point), but the beginning of the end will be clear.



    Hopefully by then the patent system will die and some other megalomaniac billionaire will come out with something all together better (perhaps an OS without a filesystem) and we can run OS X in a VM and move on.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post


    That rule is simply to push developers to rush into the App Store before any of their competitors do.



    Ambrosia and others (many, many others) have expressed deep concerns about the App Store requirements, and I'm sure most would prefer to take a wait-n-see approach with this new paradigm.



    But Steve's not stupid. He put in that clause to take care of the fence-sitters.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post


    You're not alone in that opinion:



    Firefox director says Apple is “looking to bypass the web”

    http://www.slashgear.com/firefox-dir...-web-21109568/







    No, that's the second thing they'll do.



    The first thing they'll do is raise prices by 30% to spread the love around.



    You know, I hadn't quite realized that we can really get our Apple hate on by making up shit that they'll maybe-probably-you-know-they're-just-dying-to on account of the evilness, and parading it around like it had already happened and the rest of of us our just too dumb/sheep to notice.



    But why so half-assed? If we can just make shit up, why not grimly warn of the day the Jobs will demand each and every Mac developer live in Apple's shanty towns, the better to control all aspects of the user experience? Why not hysterically describe the no doubt any day now deployment of permanently on, permanently reporting to Cupertino iSight cameras, with a big Jobs controlled kill switch right next to the monitors so he can fry your computer if you use it wrong? I mean, just look at the iPhone! It's practically already true! Wouldn't put it past 'em!



    I'm also intrigued to learn that Apple, provider of Web Kit that powers the entire mobile internet and arguably the owner of the best mobile browser going is trying to "kill the internet" by providing some apps that replicate web site functionality. I'm assuming that Google is also trying to kill the internet with the Netflix app on their Google TV, or their forthcoming Chrome OS.



    Oh, no, wait, Google is super cool because they're "open" and Eric Schmidt is a really nice guy, unlike that bastard Jobs. I bet he'll try to kill me in my sleep. Bank on it.
  • Reply 158 of 175
    strobestrobe Posts: 369member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vaughnsc View Post


    I'm probably shelling out 25% for backend and advertising



    That fee doesn't include advertising. Advertising is up to you. Ask any iPhone developer.
  • Reply 159 of 175
    strobestrobe Posts: 369member
    HA, I just realized something obvious. If Apple have Mac developers a better split, they could no longer justify shafting iPhone developers.



    It's all so comical
  • Reply 160 of 175
    tjwtjw Posts: 216member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    You know, I hadn't quite realized that we can really get our Apple hate on by making up shit that they'll maybe-probably-you-know-they're-just-dying-to on account of the evilness, and parading it around like it had already happened and the rest of of us our just too dumb/sheep to notice.



    But why so half-assed? If we can just make shit up, why not grimly warn of the day the Jobs will demand each and every Mac developer live in Apple's shanty towns, the better to control all aspects of the user experience? Why not hysterically describe the no doubt any day now deployment of permanently on, permanently reporting to Cupertino iSight cameras, with a big Jobs controlled kill switch right next to the monitors so he can fry your computer if you use it wrong? I mean, just look at the iPhone! It's practically already true! Wouldn't put it past 'em!



    I'm also intrigued to learn that Apple, provider of Web Kit that powers the entire mobile internet and arguably the owner of the best mobile browser going is trying to "kill the internet" by providing some apps that replicate web site functionality. I'm assuming that Google is also trying to kill the internet with the Netflix app on their Google TV, or their forthcoming Chrome OS.



    Oh, no, wait, Google is super cool because they're "open" and Eric Schmidt is a really nice guy, unlike that bastard Jobs. I bet he'll try to kill me in my sleep. Bank on it.





    At the end of the day apple is insanely scared of cross platform applications as it means there is no benefit in buying apple hardware. Hence their huge walled garden. Their strategy is simple: make something cool but slightly limited (so it really really appeals to those that aren't that tech literate) then make it a bit cooler every year so people keep coming back again. Before you know it you have a huge amount of people in your walled garden. Now imagine if platform independent web apps came along to the same standard as your native apps, you would switch. The benefits of switching far outweigh you using all your native apps and eventually the walled garden comes tumbling down. This is what apple doesn't want because it means they lose again. Hence them pushing the app store onto every bit of apple hardware they can to try and make it ubiquitous. I am pretty certain they will put an app store on apple tv before they put a browser on it.



    The whole model people have suggested here as being great where you sign into your mum's iMac and you download all the apps you have bought and then you use them is completely flawed. It is far far far more useful to login to any device, mac, pc, iphone, android phone and open the browser and have all your apps and no downloading. Unfortunately, this will never happen with apple...
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