Just made some funny calculation that made me laugh. Lets say they really ad hundreds of apps every week, or lets just assume they ad 300 apps per week. They will need 1000 weeks to catch up. I wonder where Apples App Store will be after 20 Years.
There will no doubt be a flood of applications, not that WP7 really needs that many.
If you look at the App Store a vast majority of revenue is shared among a handful of the top applications.
Give me 1% of the most popular App Store applications (3000) and I bet I can cover the needs of a vast majority (like 80-90%) of users.
I'm not saying WP7 doesn't need applications (it does) just that it doesn't need 300,000 to be competitive with iPhone.
It just needs the most popular and high quality applications.
Think that won't happen? Then just have a look at the Game Studio's publishing games for WP7. Gameloft, PopCap, Konami, THQ, Gameloft and EA Games among others. The fact that Microsoft were able to secure these studios for a phone that hadn't even launched is extraordinary and shows a commitment to the platform, an ability to utilize company relationships and a willingness to open the checkbook when needed.
I see a lot of people talking about visual voicemail as a key feature. Is it really? Most iPhone carriers around the world haven't implemented it and there's been no uproar.
What I've gathered from reading the various reviews is that Microsoft have got themselves a very solid base for a mobile platform.
The majority opinion seems to be that the base they are building from is at least as good as the base used by other mobile platforms. Quite a few people think that it's better.
The consensus also seems to be that they are missing some of the trimmings. Extra features that are added into the system as it matures and are available in either iPhone or Android because they are mature.
The important thing to note, I think, is that WP7 complaints all seem to revolve around these extra features that will be added in, where a lot of complaints about iPhone and Android revolve around fundamental core issues of the platform (like limited hardware choice or fragmentation).
I've honestly got no idea where WP7 is going to go. My initial impression (which I still hold) was that WP7 was more of a competitor for Blackberry business\\enterprise and partially Android if Google can't get fragmentation under control.
Who is going to buy a Windows phone, when Windows carries a 90% corporate IT/institutional computing place in peoples minds?
X-Box integration? Appeals only to a portion of the serious gaming audience. And is that enough to make you buy a phone?
Blackberry already has a huge presence in corporate IT. Android wants to be everything for everybody. Apple sells what Apple sells. WEB/OS from HP is back in the wild soon.
The market is not there. Even when they start to give them away, or go two for 1. Between BB, Android and Apple (and WEB/OS) there is no one outside of Microsoft headquarters who cares about a Windows Phone...I can't see what they can do to change this. Innovation is not one of Microsofts strengths. They DO have strengths, but innovation is not one of them. Consumer electronics is not one of them. Mobile platforms has NOT been one of them. So other than giving them away in some form (in other words using all their money to try and buy market - dropping price, paying people to use them) what part of Microsoft's DNA will allow this product to become anything but a 'me-to'?
This is a serious issue for Microsoft. It's a huge problem that they have no expertise that allows them to develop a unique product. They have used overwhelming size to dominate the clone PC market, and face it, their systems were bought not by people who loved them, but by large corporate entities because of millions of 'Microsoft certified' single guys out there who supported and maintained the systems.
I'm being a bit snarky, but the issue Microsoft faces is a big one.
A big selling point to Corporate types would have to be the ability to sync directly with Exchange and not having to install another piece of infrastructure (RIM stuff) to have secure email. As far as corporate is concerned, uptake of Win Pho 7 can only hurt RIM.
Looks like a desirable phone and when they allow gamers to add to their Xbox achievements it will be very popular.
I think Xbox "cross over" games will be important as well.
The idea of playing Call of Duty on on Xbox\\PC then playing some kind of related COD game (not necessarily a FPS) on the bus\\train that can unlock weapons or level upgrades when you go home and play the real COD on Xbox\\PC again is a very compelling.
Non-gamers won't understand that. Gamers will be nodding their heads in agreement.
I'll keep saying it. It's going to be an interesting few years!
I see a lot of people talking about visual voicemail as a key feature. Is it really? Most iPhone carriers around the world haven't implemented it and there's been no uproar.
Well, they should, because it's great. I broke away this summer from the official and only iPhone-provider in Holland, and I miss it every day. Only reason there is no uproar is because most people don't know what they're missing.
BREAKING NEWS: A brand new platform is not quite yet as good as the far more matured Android and iOS platforms.
Guess what? iOS 1.x wasn't much to write home about, either. But it got better over time. The same with Android. And the same will be true of Windows Phone 7.
Windows mobile is a brand new platform? What on earth are you talking about. iOS and Android came from an installed user base of nothing less than four years ago, windows mobile is on version SEVEN starting with pocket PC which was released over ten years ago.
And still no copy on paste on this version, they've had enough time to integrate it before now...
Pocket PC 2000
Pocket PC 2002
Windows Mobile 2003
Windows Mobile 2003 SE
Windows Mobile 5
Windows Mobile 6
Windows Mobile 6.1
Windows Mobile 6.5
Windows Mobile 6.5.1
Windows Mobile 6.5.3
Windows Mobile 6.5.5
And they still haven't got it right, Apple are on iOS 4 (just) as many major revisions in as many years and are already ahead of windows mobile, which is an established, mature platform with almost ten years of life 'in the wild'.
I would like to see a review by an xbox 360 gamer as they will probably be the highest percentage of buyers.
Nah, this will be shifted in bulk on contract to big corporations when they upgrade their company cell phones to x-thousand employees. Just as the grey box PCs that are on every desk in every bank, accountants and big grey suited work place - this is why windows market share is so big overall - mass produced, bulk purchases with OEM software installed with little to no profit margin.
I'd like to see figures that separate home/entertainment use from business/corporate use, I'd think Apple's market share of the 'fun' market is significantly higher than the 5% - 20% (depending on which analyst you listen to) market share that Apple is currently estimated to have, especially with the inclusion of iPod touch and iPad.
Not surprisingly, the article puts a slant on the reviews which is not entirely accurate. The reviews have generally been positive, with Mossberg's being the most negative (big surprise there), while noticing the absence of some features in the current release.
For example, the Appleinsider article implies that Endgadget did not particularly like WP7, and would not recommend it.
Here is the summary of the Endgadget review, which paints a very different picture.
Quote:
In our original preview, we said that Windows Phone 7 didn't quite feel like a complete smartphone OS yet. We'd like to come back and report that it finally has the fit and finish of a fully realized product, but that isn't exactly the case. Don't get us wrong: there's a lot to like or even love in WP7. Microsoft has done an outstanding job with lots of aspects of this UI, particularly when it comes to navigation and ease of use -- but there are holes here as well. It still feels like the company is a good year behind market leaders right now, and though it's clear the folks in Redmond are doing everything they can to get this platform up to snuff, it's also clear that they're not there yet.
But that isn't -- and shouldn't be -- a deterrent to taking a close look at the handsets being offered. Microsoft isn't walking away from Windows Phone 7 anytime soon, and the company has created an incredibly promising base set of features to build off of. With terrific Zune and Xbox Live integration, a fast and smart method of getting around the OS, great Office and email experiences, and a genuinely beautiful and useful user interface, Microsoft has definitely laid the foundation for the next several years of its mobile play. Now it's time to get the upper floors finished.
I disagree, I think the AppleInsider article painted an accurate picture of what Endgadget said, based on what I read here and your quote, I don't see a significant difference.
Just adding another opinion.
It's also true to say that while iOS version 1 lacked almost the same features as Microsoft's new phone, Microsoft's is Version 7 and the iPhone 1 brought a revolution in interface, design and standards both in how the hardware was put together and how the software worked with the hardware.
I see a lot of people talking about visual voicemail as a key feature. Is it really? Most iPhone carriers around the world haven't implemented it and there's been no uproar.
Yeah, it's awesome and if people had a chance to use it, they'd be pissed if it wasn't offered. My initial reaction was Holy Crap! Why didn't they think of this before?
Windows Phone 7 is terrible. I called it DOA months ago.
1) Take the horrid UI from the failed ipod clone, Zune, and expect it to work on a phone? LOL. Scrolling to the right is always bad. always. UI design 101
2) Take the failed Zune music platform and cram it into a phone and continue to charge a monthly fee for accessing your music. LOL. yeah, that model worked before so continue it.
3) Take the failed Windows CE (it is called WINCE for a reason) and under pin your 'new' OS with it. This is what they did with Windows 7, simply reskin the failed Vista, so this might work, although there is no pent up demand for phone OS
4) Take your failed, proprietary, patent encumbered, Silverlight platform and make it the only way to develop applications
5) Lock all the phones to use the terrible Bing (yes, BING is definitely not google) search engine so Bing looks like people are actually choosing to use it.
6) Lock all the phones to use the terrible Bing Maps rather than let people choose what mapping application they use. Guess Microsoft does not like choice?
7) Only allow your 'partners' to change a couple fugly boxes on the screen. Think the PC cloner world is dull, what distinguishes a HTC from Samsung from <insert generic cloner name here>?
8) On top of that, each generic cloner has to pay the Microsoft tax of ~15 USD for _each_ Windows 7 Phone. Say good bye to any hope for profits. Look for anyone dumb enough to buy a Windows 7 phone, to get ravaged by the phone salesperson who is going to desperately try selling extended warranty, training plans, etc... so the generic cloner can make any money. That is going to be a great experience
BREAKING NEWS: A brand new platform is not quite yet as good as the far more matured Android and iOS platforms.
Guess what? iOS 1.x wasn't much to write home about, either. But it got better over time. The same with Android. And the same will be true of Windows Phone 7.
Yeah, but ...err...this isn't version 1.0 - it's like version 7.0
BREAKING NEWS: A brand new platform is not quite yet as good as the far more matured Android and iOS platforms.
Guess what? iOS 1.x wasn't much to write home about, either. But it got better over time. The same with Android. And the same will be true of Windows Phone 7.
The iPhone's release turned the entire mobile market on its head. It was a turning point.
This, however, is yet another attempt by MS to repackage their failed Zune platform.
Late to the game yet again, Microstupid was forced to design around what their competitors are doing due to not only concerns about infringing upon patented IP (something Google doesn't quite understand yet, but that's a different story), but also in a vain attempt to differentiate their offering. Why they think a Zune phone will sell when Zunes didn't is as inexplicable as the Kin or, for that matter, Ballmer himself.
The App store didn't have ANY fart Apps when it opened.
Fart Apps were only added after a huge outcry over "Pull my Finger" being rejected.
The same people whining about that are probably the same people whinging about the App store being "full of fart Apps" over the last couple of years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking
What I think he is talking about is multi-tasking and copy and paste for example, or the app store which the reviewers are writing about (somewhere someone wrote that the App store opened with 500 apps, with many of the being of the fart app variety.
Which one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton
You know what'd be awesome? If Consumer Reports recommended Windows Phone 7. Because they have their priorities straight
Sounds like sort of a mixed bag. Sounds like there is a lot right here but a lot missing as well. Those that must have a msft product will buy this others will go with iPhone or android. Doesn't sound compelling so don't think many will switch because of this.
Maybe if msft took some of their 500 million dollar advertising campaign and spent on actual development, the phone software could compete more readily and they wouldn't have to advertise the heck out of the platform.
It seems another MS 'Build it and they will come' assumption like many recent products. MS only exist as a corporation because they were able to copy others and then muscle it to success. Those days are over glad to say.
Comments
Just made some funny calculation that made me laugh. Lets say they really ad hundreds of apps every week, or lets just assume they ad 300 apps per week. They will need 1000 weeks to catch up. I wonder where Apples App Store will be after 20 Years.
There will no doubt be a flood of applications, not that WP7 really needs that many.
If you look at the App Store a vast majority of revenue is shared among a handful of the top applications.
Give me 1% of the most popular App Store applications (3000) and I bet I can cover the needs of a vast majority (like 80-90%) of users.
I'm not saying WP7 doesn't need applications (it does) just that it doesn't need 300,000 to be competitive with iPhone.
It just needs the most popular and high quality applications.
Think that won't happen? Then just have a look at the Game Studio's publishing games for WP7. Gameloft, PopCap, Konami, THQ, Gameloft and EA Games among others. The fact that Microsoft were able to secure these studios for a phone that hadn't even launched is extraordinary and shows a commitment to the platform, an ability to utilize company relationships and a willingness to open the checkbook when needed.
It's going to be an interesting few years!
The apostrophe is in the wrong place Josh Ong:
In their reviews, both Metz and Mossberg expressed concern over the dearth of apps in Window's app store, dubbed Marketplace.
It should be ...Windows' app store...
AnandTech has a great in-depth write up on WP7 and a few handsets they’ve tested.
I like the AnandTech review.
What I've gathered from reading the various reviews is that Microsoft have got themselves a very solid base for a mobile platform.
The majority opinion seems to be that the base they are building from is at least as good as the base used by other mobile platforms. Quite a few people think that it's better.
The consensus also seems to be that they are missing some of the trimmings. Extra features that are added into the system as it matures and are available in either iPhone or Android because they are mature.
The important thing to note, I think, is that WP7 complaints all seem to revolve around these extra features that will be added in, where a lot of complaints about iPhone and Android revolve around fundamental core issues of the platform (like limited hardware choice or fragmentation).
I've honestly got no idea where WP7 is going to go. My initial impression (which I still hold) was that WP7 was more of a competitor for Blackberry business\\enterprise and partially Android if Google can't get fragmentation under control.
It's going to be an interesting few years!
Who is going to buy a Windows phone, when Windows carries a 90% corporate IT/institutional computing place in peoples minds?
X-Box integration? Appeals only to a portion of the serious gaming audience. And is that enough to make you buy a phone?
Blackberry already has a huge presence in corporate IT. Android wants to be everything for everybody. Apple sells what Apple sells. WEB/OS from HP is back in the wild soon.
The market is not there. Even when they start to give them away, or go two for 1. Between BB, Android and Apple (and WEB/OS) there is no one outside of Microsoft headquarters who cares about a Windows Phone...I can't see what they can do to change this. Innovation is not one of Microsofts strengths. They DO have strengths, but innovation is not one of them. Consumer electronics is not one of them. Mobile platforms has NOT been one of them. So other than giving them away in some form (in other words using all their money to try and buy market - dropping price, paying people to use them) what part of Microsoft's DNA will allow this product to become anything but a 'me-to'?
This is a serious issue for Microsoft. It's a huge problem that they have no expertise that allows them to develop a unique product. They have used overwhelming size to dominate the clone PC market, and face it, their systems were bought not by people who loved them, but by large corporate entities because of millions of 'Microsoft certified' single guys out there who supported and maintained the systems.
I'm being a bit snarky, but the issue Microsoft faces is a big one.
A big selling point to Corporate types would have to be the ability to sync directly with Exchange and not having to install another piece of infrastructure (RIM stuff) to have secure email. As far as corporate is concerned, uptake of Win Pho 7 can only hurt RIM.
Looks like a desirable phone and when they allow gamers to add to their Xbox achievements it will be very popular.
I think Xbox "cross over" games will be important as well.
The idea of playing Call of Duty on on Xbox\\PC then playing some kind of related COD game (not necessarily a FPS) on the bus\\train that can unlock weapons or level upgrades when you go home and play the real COD on Xbox\\PC again is a very compelling.
Non-gamers won't understand that. Gamers will be nodding their heads in agreement.
I'll keep saying it. It's going to be an interesting few years!
I see a lot of people talking about visual voicemail as a key feature. Is it really? Most iPhone carriers around the world haven't implemented it and there's been no uproar.
Well, they should, because it's great. I broke away this summer from the official and only iPhone-provider in Holland, and I miss it every day. Only reason there is no uproar is because most people don't know what they're missing.
BREAKING NEWS: A brand new platform is not quite yet as good as the far more matured Android and iOS platforms.
Guess what? iOS 1.x wasn't much to write home about, either. But it got better over time. The same with Android. And the same will be true of Windows Phone 7.
Windows mobile is a brand new platform? What on earth are you talking about. iOS and Android came from an installed user base of nothing less than four years ago, windows mobile is on version SEVEN starting with pocket PC which was released over ten years ago.
And still no copy on paste on this version, they've had enough time to integrate it before now...
Pocket PC 2000
Pocket PC 2002
Windows Mobile 2003
Windows Mobile 2003 SE
Windows Mobile 5
Windows Mobile 6
Windows Mobile 6.1
Windows Mobile 6.5
Windows Mobile 6.5.1
Windows Mobile 6.5.3
Windows Mobile 6.5.5
And they still haven't got it right, Apple are on iOS 4 (just) as many major revisions in as many years and are already ahead of windows mobile, which is an established, mature platform with almost ten years of life 'in the wild'.
I would like to see a review by an xbox 360 gamer as they will probably be the highest percentage of buyers.
Nah, this will be shifted in bulk on contract to big corporations when they upgrade their company cell phones to x-thousand employees. Just as the grey box PCs that are on every desk in every bank, accountants and big grey suited work place - this is why windows market share is so big overall - mass produced, bulk purchases with OEM software installed with little to no profit margin.
I'd like to see figures that separate home/entertainment use from business/corporate use, I'd think Apple's market share of the 'fun' market is significantly higher than the 5% - 20% (depending on which analyst you listen to) market share that Apple is currently estimated to have, especially with the inclusion of iPod touch and iPad.
Not surprisingly, the article puts a slant on the reviews which is not entirely accurate. The reviews have generally been positive, with Mossberg's being the most negative (big surprise there), while noticing the absence of some features in the current release.
For example, the Appleinsider article implies that Endgadget did not particularly like WP7, and would not recommend it.
Here is the summary of the Endgadget review, which paints a very different picture.
In our original preview, we said that Windows Phone 7 didn't quite feel like a complete smartphone OS yet. We'd like to come back and report that it finally has the fit and finish of a fully realized product, but that isn't exactly the case. Don't get us wrong: there's a lot to like or even love in WP7. Microsoft has done an outstanding job with lots of aspects of this UI, particularly when it comes to navigation and ease of use -- but there are holes here as well. It still feels like the company is a good year behind market leaders right now, and though it's clear the folks in Redmond are doing everything they can to get this platform up to snuff, it's also clear that they're not there yet.
But that isn't -- and shouldn't be -- a deterrent to taking a close look at the handsets being offered. Microsoft isn't walking away from Windows Phone 7 anytime soon, and the company has created an incredibly promising base set of features to build off of. With terrific Zune and Xbox Live integration, a fast and smart method of getting around the OS, great Office and email experiences, and a genuinely beautiful and useful user interface, Microsoft has definitely laid the foundation for the next several years of its mobile play. Now it's time to get the upper floors finished.
I disagree, I think the AppleInsider article painted an accurate picture of what Endgadget said, based on what I read here and your quote, I don't see a significant difference.
Just adding another opinion.
It's also true to say that while iOS version 1 lacked almost the same features as Microsoft's new phone, Microsoft's is Version 7 and the iPhone 1 brought a revolution in interface, design and standards both in how the hardware was put together and how the software worked with the hardware.
This whole Windows Phone venture is at best, redundant. At worst, a bad iPhone copy.
I see a lot of people talking about visual voicemail as a key feature. Is it really? Most iPhone carriers around the world haven't implemented it and there's been no uproar.
Yeah, it's awesome and if people had a chance to use it, they'd be pissed if it wasn't offered. My initial reaction was Holy Crap! Why didn't they think of this before?
1) Take the horrid UI from the failed ipod clone, Zune, and expect it to work on a phone? LOL. Scrolling to the right is always bad. always. UI design 101
2) Take the failed Zune music platform and cram it into a phone and continue to charge a monthly fee for accessing your music. LOL. yeah, that model worked before so continue it.
3) Take the failed Windows CE (it is called WINCE for a reason) and under pin your 'new' OS with it. This is what they did with Windows 7, simply reskin the failed Vista, so this might work, although there is no pent up demand for phone OS
4) Take your failed, proprietary, patent encumbered, Silverlight platform and make it the only way to develop applications
5) Lock all the phones to use the terrible Bing (yes, BING is definitely not google) search engine so Bing looks like people are actually choosing to use it.
6) Lock all the phones to use the terrible Bing Maps rather than let people choose what mapping application they use. Guess Microsoft does not like choice?
7) Only allow your 'partners' to change a couple fugly boxes on the screen. Think the PC cloner world is dull, what distinguishes a HTC from Samsung from <insert generic cloner name here>?
8) On top of that, each generic cloner has to pay the Microsoft tax of ~15 USD for _each_ Windows 7 Phone. Say good bye to any hope for profits. Look for anyone dumb enough to buy a Windows 7 phone, to get ravaged by the phone salesperson who is going to desperately try selling extended warranty, training plans, etc... so the generic cloner can make any money. That is going to be a great experience
BREAKING NEWS: A brand new platform is not quite yet as good as the far more matured Android and iOS platforms.
Guess what? iOS 1.x wasn't much to write home about, either. But it got better over time. The same with Android. And the same will be true of Windows Phone 7.
Yeah, but ...err...this isn't version 1.0 - it's like version 7.0
Or did I read that wrong?
C.
BREAKING NEWS: A brand new platform is not quite yet as good as the far more matured Android and iOS platforms.
Guess what? iOS 1.x wasn't much to write home about, either. But it got better over time. The same with Android. And the same will be true of Windows Phone 7.
The iPhone's release turned the entire mobile market on its head. It was a turning point.
This, however, is yet another attempt by MS to repackage their failed Zune platform.
Late to the game yet again, Microstupid was forced to design around what their competitors are doing due to not only concerns about infringing upon patented IP (something Google doesn't quite understand yet, but that's a different story), but also in a vain attempt to differentiate their offering. Why they think a Zune phone will sell when Zunes didn't is as inexplicable as the Kin or, for that matter, Ballmer himself.
Now for some more.
The App store didn't have ANY fart Apps when it opened.
Fart Apps were only added after a huge outcry over "Pull my Finger" being rejected.
The same people whining about that are probably the same people whinging about the App store being "full of fart Apps" over the last couple of years.
What I think he is talking about is multi-tasking and copy and paste for example, or the app store which the reviewers are writing about (somewhere someone wrote that the App store opened with 500 apps, with many of the being of the fart app variety.
Which one?
You know what'd be awesome? If Consumer Reports recommended Windows Phone 7. Because they have their priorities straight
Maybe if msft took some of their 500 million dollar advertising campaign and spent on actual development, the phone software could compete more readily and they wouldn't have to advertise the heck out of the platform.
Doesn't sound compelling so don't think many will switch because of this.
I think the concept of 'switching to Microsoft' sounds funny when you read it. Must be because I have never actually seen it said before