I was hoping they'd do this. Scroll bars annoy the heck out of me. They may be small, but I still always feel they're taking up precious screen real estate for no good reason.
See how much of an uproar just a little tweak to the scrollbars generates? This is why Apple changes things gradually. If they just removed scrollbars suddenly, 1 Infinite Loop would be overrun by angry mobs.
Apple removes features by slowly making them less convenient to use until they're gone. For example, iMovie used to have a "Create iDVD Project" button. No more. Steve hates DVDs, that button is gone, and iDVD is now the black sheep of the iLife family. (Must have been all those boring iDVD demos Steve did at MWSF year after year.)
"Federighi also explicitly noted in passing that the green button is now considered a full screen app button rather than the "zoom to the largest window size that makes sense" that it always has been on the Mac" - thought this is the item that would have been getting peoples panties in a twist ;-)
The scroll bar visible or not could have been made a personal preference choice surely? Always visible, auto-hide (only visible when cursor over usual scroll bar area), or always off......
The scroll bar does more than tell you if you are at the end of a document. It also shows you how far into the document you are (the scroll bubble is 1/3 down the scroll bar, you have 2/3 of the document to go) and how long the overall document is (the bubble takes up about 1/10 of the scroll bar means there are 10 screens of content in your document). And I shouldn't have to move the mouse all the way over to the other side of the screen just to see this information. Finally, let's say I do want to mouse over and scroll my document, where do I aim my mouse movement? Is the bubble near the top of the scroll bar? In the middle, near the bottom? You don't know until after you've already moved your mouse there...only to find out your cursor is nowhere near the bubble.
On a small screen like the iPhone or iPad, pixels are at a premium, and it is a good trade-off. On a full size computer screen, is saving a few pixels really that big a deal? The rearranging of the three window-control buttons was silly, too. All to save 10 pixels of height on the title bar (which also makes it more difficult to grab the window by the narrow space above the iTunes display to move the window).
These are all little things, but they start to add up and degrade the overall usability. And before you know it you have a buttonless iPod shuffle.
I agree with your main points. I never use the scroll for scrolling, as a reference. On the iPhone I now automatically check as I 'flick'.
The new scroll bar's visibility could be a user option but it would be unlike Apple to offer up that choice. The challenge will be to find a solution that works for everybody.
But I don't think the visibility of the scroll bar has anything to do with saving pixels but rather with reducing unnecessary peripheral visual information. If you look at the Aqua scroll bar it is 'noisy' and draws you attention away from the task at hand. The right hand scroll bar is now such an established feature and we no longer need to advertise its existence. As features become conventions and as we (users) become more familiar with these conventions GUI design must change. The left hand column in iTunes is the same. And OSX folders. Its all about minimalist functional design. As Apple's likes to say - it is as much about what is not there as what is there.
Oh, and the three buttons in iTunes - in my view it makes perfect sense for them to be vertical. To have them along the top makes no sense - except of course in the name of convention. Screen real estate proportions change, so must the conventions. It looks odd now but when the buttons go vertically on all apps we will soon get used to it and it will be worth the effort. Vertical pixels are at a premium. When I unplug my 13" MBP from my 24" monitor I really feel it. Imagine the 11" Air users.
"Federighi also explicitly noted in passing that the green button is now considered a full screen app button rather than the "zoom to the largest window size that makes sense" that it always has been on the Mac" - thought this is the item that would have been getting peoples panties in a twist ;-)
The scroll bar visible or not could have been made a personal preference choice surely? Always visible, auto-hide (only visible when cursor over usual scroll bar area), or always off......
Coops
Me too... personally I'm concerned how the "full screen button" is going to work on multiple monitors. I'm guessing it'll actually mean "maximize and remove chrome" rather than a true full screen mode. I'm SO sick and tired of apps that don't work will with multiple monitors. For example apps that when they go full screen on monitor #2 dim monitor #1 (itunes for example), Quicktime used to do this, but seems to be behaving now.
i'd like to know when apple is going to put the 'track pad' to the right (i'm right-handed?or to the left) of the keyboard.
i've used a wacom for years. whenever i use a laptop, it's completely counter-intuitive.
when i'm on the laptop, my right hand doesn't naturally gravitate toward the middle, and i always struggle with the trackpad movements. it seems about time that apple considered this.
i'd like to know when apple is going to put the 'track pad' to the right (i'm right-handed?or to the left) of the keyboard.
i've used a wacom for years. whenever i use a laptop, it's completely counter-intuitive.
when i'm on the laptop, my right hand doesn't naturally gravitate toward the middle, and i always struggle with the trackpad movements. it seems about time that apple considered this.
any thoughts?
Doubt that would ever happen. Keyboards take up lots of horizontal space, and need to be centered. Trackpads also take up space.
Plus the trackpad in the center can be thumb-controlled without losing keyboard resting position for typing.
Now, if they released a keyboard + trackpad combo device, I'd get it in an instant.
What about us lefties? Do you want us to buy special laptops? Wacom tablets are an exception because they can be placed anywhere, independent of the keyboard.
There are other reasons for having a trackpad on laptops centered. For one, your palms don't move the mouse when you type. For another, the screen's aspect ratio would have to be much wider for it to make sense.
What about us lefties? Do you want us to buy special laptops? Wacom tablets are an exception because they can be placed anywhere, independent of the keyboard.
There are other reasons for having a trackpad on laptops centered. For one, your palms don't move the mouse when you type. For another, the screen's aspect ratio would have to be much wider for it to make sense.
I'm not even a lefty but I can't stand the look of laptops with a trackpad which isn't centered
If there is more content than will fit on the visible portion of the view, there should always be some visual indication that there is more to be seen (e.g. by showing scrollbars).
Sure, there are some situations where compromises have been made due to lack of screen real estate on devices like the iphone, but there is no excuse for doing this on a desktop machine.
This. I think Apple will make a mistake if they do this, although I'd be prepared to try it and see. I'd be interested to read Apples thoughts on this issue.
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Apple removes features by slowly making them less convenient to use until they're gone. For example, iMovie used to have a "Create iDVD Project" button. No more. Steve hates DVDs, that button is gone, and iDVD is now the black sheep of the iLife family. (Must have been all those boring iDVD demos Steve did at MWSF year after year.)
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The scroll bar visible or not could have been made a personal preference choice surely? Always visible, auto-hide (only visible when cursor over usual scroll bar area), or always off......
Coops
The scroll bar does more than tell you if you are at the end of a document. It also shows you how far into the document you are (the scroll bubble is 1/3 down the scroll bar, you have 2/3 of the document to go) and how long the overall document is (the bubble takes up about 1/10 of the scroll bar means there are 10 screens of content in your document). And I shouldn't have to move the mouse all the way over to the other side of the screen just to see this information. Finally, let's say I do want to mouse over and scroll my document, where do I aim my mouse movement? Is the bubble near the top of the scroll bar? In the middle, near the bottom? You don't know until after you've already moved your mouse there...only to find out your cursor is nowhere near the bubble.
On a small screen like the iPhone or iPad, pixels are at a premium, and it is a good trade-off. On a full size computer screen, is saving a few pixels really that big a deal? The rearranging of the three window-control buttons was silly, too. All to save 10 pixels of height on the title bar (which also makes it more difficult to grab the window by the narrow space above the iTunes display to move the window).
These are all little things, but they start to add up and degrade the overall usability. And before you know it you have a buttonless iPod shuffle.
I agree with your main points. I never use the scroll for scrolling, as a reference. On the iPhone I now automatically check as I 'flick'.
The new scroll bar's visibility could be a user option but it would be unlike Apple to offer up that choice. The challenge will be to find a solution that works for everybody.
But I don't think the visibility of the scroll bar has anything to do with saving pixels but rather with reducing unnecessary peripheral visual information. If you look at the Aqua scroll bar it is 'noisy' and draws you attention away from the task at hand. The right hand scroll bar is now such an established feature and we no longer need to advertise its existence. As features become conventions and as we (users) become more familiar with these conventions GUI design must change. The left hand column in iTunes is the same. And OSX folders. Its all about minimalist functional design. As Apple's likes to say - it is as much about what is not there as what is there.
Oh, and the three buttons in iTunes - in my view it makes perfect sense for them to be vertical. To have them along the top makes no sense - except of course in the name of convention. Screen real estate proportions change, so must the conventions. It looks odd now but when the buttons go vertically on all apps we will soon get used to it and it will be worth the effort. Vertical pixels are at a premium. When I unplug my 13" MBP from my 24" monitor I really feel it. Imagine the 11" Air users.
"Federighi also explicitly noted in passing that the green button is now considered a full screen app button rather than the "zoom to the largest window size that makes sense" that it always has been on the Mac" - thought this is the item that would have been getting peoples panties in a twist ;-)
The scroll bar visible or not could have been made a personal preference choice surely? Always visible, auto-hide (only visible when cursor over usual scroll bar area), or always off......
Coops
Me too... personally I'm concerned how the "full screen button" is going to work on multiple monitors. I'm guessing it'll actually mean "maximize and remove chrome" rather than a true full screen mode. I'm SO sick and tired of apps that don't work will with multiple monitors. For example apps that when they go full screen on monitor #2 dim monitor #1 (itunes for example), Quicktime used to do this, but seems to be behaving now.
i've used a wacom for years. whenever i use a laptop, it's completely counter-intuitive.
when i'm on the laptop, my right hand doesn't naturally gravitate toward the middle, and i always struggle with the trackpad movements. it seems about time that apple considered this.
any thoughts?
i'd like to know when apple is going to put the 'track pad' to the right (i'm right-handed?or to the left) of the keyboard.
i've used a wacom for years. whenever i use a laptop, it's completely counter-intuitive.
when i'm on the laptop, my right hand doesn't naturally gravitate toward the middle, and i always struggle with the trackpad movements. it seems about time that apple considered this.
any thoughts?
Doubt that would ever happen. Keyboards take up lots of horizontal space, and need to be centered. Trackpads also take up space.
Plus the trackpad in the center can be thumb-controlled without losing keyboard resting position for typing.
Now, if they released a keyboard + trackpad combo device, I'd get it in an instant.
There are other reasons for having a trackpad on laptops centered. For one, your palms don't move the mouse when you type. For another, the screen's aspect ratio would have to be much wider for it to make sense.
It was? #corrections
What about us lefties? Do you want us to buy special laptops? Wacom tablets are an exception because they can be placed anywhere, independent of the keyboard.
There are other reasons for having a trackpad on laptops centered. For one, your palms don't move the mouse when you type. For another, the screen's aspect ratio would have to be much wider for it to make sense.
I'm not even a lefty but I can't stand the look of laptops with a trackpad which isn't centered
If there is more content than will fit on the visible portion of the view, there should always be some visual indication that there is more to be seen (e.g. by showing scrollbars).
Sure, there are some situations where compromises have been made due to lack of screen real estate on devices like the iphone, but there is no excuse for doing this on a desktop machine.
This. I think Apple will make a mistake if they do this, although I'd be prepared to try it and see. I'd be interested to read Apples thoughts on this issue.