Why Apples prices ensure the upcomming G5s
Apples prices ensure the new G5 systems soon... here's why:
The truth is that with these price points, Apple is probably getting ready to do exactly what they did with the iMacs... You see, the new G5 have been touted as rather expensive and they'll probably not be able to cram one into a sub-2k model in the first release, so letting the price of the low end tower drop to $1600 from $1800, we get a price that they can leave a G4 in for a low cost desktop with loads of expandability. Then the $2200 model can be the low end G5 and the mid range G5 can be "just under 3k leaving the old $3600 (aprox) price tag open for a high end model without blowing customers out of the water.
So, you hink that that makes sense? Let me know...
The truth is that with these price points, Apple is probably getting ready to do exactly what they did with the iMacs... You see, the new G5 have been touted as rather expensive and they'll probably not be able to cram one into a sub-2k model in the first release, so letting the price of the low end tower drop to $1600 from $1800, we get a price that they can leave a G4 in for a low cost desktop with loads of expandability. Then the $2200 model can be the low end G5 and the mid range G5 can be "just under 3k leaving the old $3600 (aprox) price tag open for a high end model without blowing customers out of the water.
So, you hink that that makes sense? Let me know...
Comments
When Jobs came back he cleared out the clutter on the Mac lines and whacked it down to the four product matrix. Keeping the CRT iMacs already comprimises this and I don't think it is necessary to do it further. If the G5 is everything it promises to be Apple can charge just about whatever it wants. Think about it, a wicked fast new processor, DDR SDRAM, faster FireWire, perhaps USB 2.0, SuperDrive, GF4, sounds like dream to me if it comes out this summer or before.
Hmmm... maybe Apple will soon have their QuickSilvers with G4s become the pro-sumer towers (along the G4 consumer iMacs) and introduce the new G5 in an entirely new case and cutting edge motherboard?
Here's the scenario:
The G4 chip will probably max out at around 1.2gh during 2002, but it will still be cheaply produced as compared to the upcoming G5. By keeping less than stellar motherboard features (bus speed, ram, firewire, etc...), Apple could make the current QuickSilver (even with dualies) their entry level towers (read "el cheapo") while still maintaining a reasonably performance level against most Pentium/AMD PCs out there. (G4 @ $1299 - $2399)
But, with the new G5 and all sorts of enhancements on the motherboard, Apple could once again bring top-notch performance and features "beyond" anything available in the PC camp. Of course, all of this would come at a price, but for those who really need the best of the best, it could very well be worth every penny (if the G5 proves to be the marvel mentioned around here). I think an all new G5 tower family with all the goodies mentioned over and over on these threads could start at 1.2 to 1.6ghz (singles) this year priced @ $2,500 - $3,999.
My take on the future of Apple's tower lineup within 5 months is:
G4 Towers (800x1 - 1100x2) current motherboard, prosumer
G5 Towers (1200x1 - 1600x1) singles, totally new case and full blown cutting edge motherboard techs. and features...
Maybe I am too crazy... do I deserve a spur of rolleyes?
I do agree with the whole prosumer G4 pricing structure though. This is the perfect setup with G5s starting at $2299. For that level of performance, $2299 will be killer.
[ 01-28-2002: Message edited by: Tarbash ]</p>
I'm not trying to foil anybody, I just think a lot of people here see this speedbump to Dual 1 GHz, get pissed off, and they think that's all Apple's Power Mac team has been working on for the past 7 months and that the engineers are worthless for not including DDR-RAM.
I think it should be obvious that this speedbump was obviously not a big focus of the PowerMac team, and that their sights are set elsewhere.
[ 01-28-2002: Message edited by: Tarbash ]</p>
<strong>You see, the new G5 have been touted as rather expensive and they'll probably not be able to cram one into a sub-2k model in the first release, so letting the price of the low end tower drop to $1600 from $1800, we get a price that they can leave a G4 in for a low cost desktop with loads of expandability. Then the $2200 model can be the low end G5 and the mid range G5 can be "just under 3k leaving the old $3600 (aprox) price tag open for a high end model without blowing customers out of the water.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Oh I hope that's not true. This G5 is being built-up as the saviour of Macdom, and if the prices on them are higher than the PowerMacs are now, it would cancel out the positive effect of using higher-powered CPUs. The PowerMacs are already priced like high-end workstations.
<strong>
I think it should be obvious that this speedbump was obviously not a big focus of the PowerMac team, and that their sights are set elsewhere.
[ 01-28-2002: Message edited by: Tarbash ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
well apple did change all 7 pages for the Tower descriptions, so they must be a little excited
I think 3 models from $1499 to $2999.00 will do the trick. A $750.00 gap between the models is perfect.
I am more excited now than I have ever been. Some great performance increases will so be upon us and so much more bang will be gotten from our dollar.
I don't think the G5s are going to be priced as high as everyone thinks. Maybe the low end tower will not get a G5 at first, but I highly doubt it.
History shows that even with expensive chips in low quantity, like the G4, Apple does a complete switchover to the new CPU in their powermacs. The G5 is going to force Apple to upgrade their mobo, too, whether they like it or not!
<strong>
well apple did change all 7 pages for the Tower descriptions, so they must be a little excited</strong><hr></blockquote>
Nah, they just have to give the marketing guys something to do.
<strong>
Nah, they just have to give the marketing guys something to do.</strong><hr></blockquote>
mmmmmmmm, Apple Propaganda
The price cuts make sense for many reasons.
1.\tMarket conditions
2.\tIncreased competetiveness with PC's
3.\tIncreased competetiveness with new iMacs
etc.
If G5's will be ready soon:
Apple may be preparing to go for G4/G5 lineup, as mentioned. Apple does not want to remove these machines so soon after they are introduced, so they will introduce a rebate on the G4's when the G5's are announced. My guess would be that the top G4 will then be a little more expensive than the bottom G5, as it will have a few high-end extras such as a bigger hard drive and possibly a Superdrive.
If Apple doesn't know whether G5's will be ready to release soon:
These price cuts are a smart move because they'll have been the right move with either scenario.
In other words, these price cuts tell us nothing about future hardware.
<strong>
When Jobs came back he cleared out the clutter on the Mac lines and whacked it down to the four product matrix.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I tend to think that this would be more of a temperary bending of the product matrix. I wouldn't expect the low end G4 to last more than 6-12 months, untill a G5 can take a price point somewhere near it. Also, I believer that it will simply be there, not that it will be highly publicized. Again, think of the CRT iMacs that are still being sold, but not whith any hype or really any mention by Apple. Think it in the samy way... NOT permenant, and simply there for the price point... because it will sell there.
[quote]Originally posted by The Swan:
<strong>
If the G5 is everything it promises to be Apple can charge just about whatever it wants. Think about it, a wicked fast new processor, DDR SDRAM, faster FireWire, perhaps USB 2.0, SuperDrive, GF4, sounds like dream to me if it comes out this summer or before.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Even with all that, in this economy, Apple can't just charge anything for they're products, they simply won't sell if they're too high.
1: significant reduction in chip price
2: better yields (look for good chips for use with desktops)
3: better profit margins for Motorola/Apple
I expect to see some combination of the above three for any processor that Motorola produces at 0.13 micron. Look at Intel/AMD, after considering the competition, it's clear that the prices for their processors has both dropped substantially and both companies have seen FAT margins on their chip biz'.
I hope a G5 comes out any day, I'd buy one right now, but what I really hope is that we the apple consumers can get in on some of the benefits of smaller processes that AMD and Intel users have been pissing their pants about for the last 2 years.
Oh yeah, my point was, if new G5 machines are more expensive than G4's the only reasons will be marketing or Apple or Motorola trying to extract higher margins than they currently do, ie, we get screwed because there ain't competition.
<strong> Considering that both G4's and (hypothetical) G5's are going to be produced at Motorola's existing fabs, despite costs for moving to 0.13 micron, the G5 will yield approximately double the number of chips per wafer (circular wafer means that a die size difference is squared, ie: 0.13/0.18^2=.52->half area). So if Motorola makes a G5 wafer, they get approximately twice as many chips. This could result in 3 possibilities or a combination of them both:
1: significant reduction in chip price
2: better yields (look for good chips for use with desktops)
3: better profit margins for Motorola/Apple
</strong><hr></blockquote>
But if <a href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/39/23158.html" target="_blank">the source from The Register/MOSR</a> was accurate (yeah, I know), the G5 will be 192 sq mm, and the current G4 is 106 sq mm.
I may complain about the time it's taken to get the G5 out the door, but I don't want AIM to do as they did with the G4 which was deviate from Book E and other intended performance inclusions in the interest of getting to market. As far as the original G4 spec., AIM ended up with a stranger.
At any rate, if it screams, we'll buy it and at **mn near any price.
<strong>I think if Apple were to introduce a "prosumer" tower computer line, they would use a new case. The current Powermac case is too expandable, i.e., too expensive, for a consumer computer. Apple would be better off to offer fewer PCI slots, less HD expansion space, in a smaller enclosure, so their manufacturing costs go down, and they can retain a high margin.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That depends on how much it costs to design and manufacture a new mother board. Currently all they need to do is make a lower speed daughter card, which is the same daughter card in current models with a lower speed chip, and repositioned jumpers. Apple would save a lot of R&D and manufacturing costs by using the same case/boards. The real question is how many people would choose the lower end over the higher end models, which would cut into Apple profits.