Why Apples prices ensure the upcomming G5s

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
Apples prices ensure the new G5 systems soon... here's why:



The truth is that with these price points, Apple is probably getting ready to do exactly what they did with the iMacs... You see, the new G5 have been touted as rather expensive and they'll probably not be able to cram one into a sub-2k model in the first release, so letting the price of the low end tower drop to $1600 from $1800, we get a price that they can leave a G4 in for a low cost desktop with loads of expandability. Then the $2200 model can be the low end G5 and the mid range G5 can be "just under 3k leaving the old $3600 (aprox) price tag open for a high end model without blowing customers out of the water.



So, you hink that that makes sense? Let me know...
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 25
    NO.



    When Jobs came back he cleared out the clutter on the Mac lines and whacked it down to the four product matrix. Keeping the CRT iMacs already comprimises this and I don't think it is necessary to do it further. If the G5 is everything it promises to be Apple can charge just about whatever it wants. Think about it, a wicked fast new processor, DDR SDRAM, faster FireWire, perhaps USB 2.0, SuperDrive, GF4, sounds like dream to me if it comes out this summer or before.
  • Reply 2 of 25
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,341member
    I tend to think Apples new Pricing reflect our current economy. The $1700 2499 and 3499 price points simply do not jive with current computer trends. I'm glad to see Apple make some positive moves here. The G5 needs to be priced the same IMO.
  • Reply 3 of 25
    bill mbill m Posts: 324member
    I was thinking the same thing...



    Hmmm... maybe Apple will soon have their QuickSilvers with G4s become the pro-sumer towers (along the G4 consumer iMacs) and introduce the new G5 in an entirely new case and cutting edge motherboard?



    Here's the scenario:



    The G4 chip will probably max out at around 1.2gh during 2002, but it will still be cheaply produced as compared to the upcoming G5. By keeping less than stellar motherboard features (bus speed, ram, firewire, etc...), Apple could make the current QuickSilver (even with dualies) their entry level towers (read "el cheapo") while still maintaining a reasonably performance level against most Pentium/AMD PCs out there. (G4 @ $1299 - $2399)



    But, with the new G5 and all sorts of enhancements on the motherboard, Apple could once again bring top-notch performance and features "beyond" anything available in the PC camp. Of course, all of this would come at a price, but for those who really need the best of the best, it could very well be worth every penny (if the G5 proves to be the marvel mentioned around here). I think an all new G5 tower family with all the goodies mentioned over and over on these threads could start at 1.2 to 1.6ghz (singles) this year priced @ $2,500 - $3,999.



    My take on the future of Apple's tower lineup within 5 months is:



    G4 Towers (800x1 - 1100x2) current motherboard, prosumer

    G5 Towers (1200x1 - 1600x1) singles, totally new case and full blown cutting edge motherboard techs. and features...



    Maybe I am too crazy... do I deserve a spur of rolleyes?
  • Reply 4 of 25
    tarbashtarbash Posts: 278member
    Oh CRT iMacs are DEFINITELY necessary. i work in education sales and $1199 for an entry level machine for a simple kiosk or workstation is too much for most bulk buyers, especially on college campuses. $699 and $899 for the CRT models have to stick around for a while until LCD prices fall. This is how Apple will keep its marketshare afloat here.



    I do agree with the whole prosumer G4 pricing structure though. This is the perfect setup with G5s starting at $2299. For that level of performance, $2299 will be killer.



    [ 01-28-2002: Message edited by: Tarbash ]</p>
  • Reply 5 of 25
    Tarbash in another thread you said you think the g5 will be hear before MWNY yet you always are there to foil reasons others have for a g5 soon. Maybe you aren't foiling them and I am misinterpreting. I just wonder why you think they will be out soon
  • Reply 6 of 25
    tarbashtarbash Posts: 278member
    Um, no, I said I agreed with his pricing structure. I think we will see G5s either before or at MWNY. I really don't know exactly when. Nobody does except those close to the project.



    I'm not trying to foil anybody, I just think a lot of people here see this speedbump to Dual 1 GHz, get pissed off, and they think that's all Apple's Power Mac team has been working on for the past 7 months and that the engineers are worthless for not including DDR-RAM.



    I think it should be obvious that this speedbump was obviously not a big focus of the PowerMac team, and that their sights are set elsewhere.



    [ 01-28-2002: Message edited by: Tarbash ]</p>
  • Reply 7 of 25
    brussellbrussell Posts: 9,812member
    [quote]Originally posted by MaCommentary:

    <strong>You see, the new G5 have been touted as rather expensive and they'll probably not be able to cram one into a sub-2k model in the first release, so letting the price of the low end tower drop to $1600 from $1800, we get a price that they can leave a G4 in for a low cost desktop with loads of expandability. Then the $2200 model can be the low end G5 and the mid range G5 can be "just under 3k leaving the old $3600 (aprox) price tag open for a high end model without blowing customers out of the water.</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Oh I hope that's not true. This G5 is being built-up as the saviour of Macdom, and if the prices on them are higher than the PowerMacs are now, it would cancel out the positive effect of using higher-powered CPUs. The PowerMacs are already priced like high-end workstations.
  • Reply 8 of 25
    [quote]Originally posted by Tarbash:

    <strong>



    I think it should be obvious that this speedbump was obviously not a big focus of the PowerMac team, and that their sights are set elsewhere.



    [ 01-28-2002: Message edited by: Tarbash ]</strong><hr></blockquote>



    well apple did change all 7 pages for the Tower descriptions, so they must be a little excited
  • Reply 9 of 25
    cobracobra Posts: 253member
    The 500 dollar drop on the highend was nice. $2999.00 just sounds alot better than $3499.00.



    I think 3 models from $1499 to $2999.00 will do the trick. A $750.00 gap between the models is perfect.



    I am more excited now than I have ever been. Some great performance increases will so be upon us and so much more bang will be gotten from our dollar.
  • Reply 10 of 25
    I think if Apple were to introduce a "prosumer" tower computer line, they would use a new case. The current Powermac case is too expandable, i.e., too expensive, for a consumer computer. Apple would be better off to offer fewer PCI slots, less HD expansion space, in a smaller enclosure, so their manufacturing costs go down, and they can retain a high margin.



    I don't think the G5s are going to be priced as high as everyone thinks. Maybe the low end tower will not get a G5 at first, but I highly doubt it.



    History shows that even with expensive chips in low quantity, like the G4, Apple does a complete switchover to the new CPU in their powermacs. The G5 is going to force Apple to upgrade their mobo, too, whether they like it or not!
  • Reply 11 of 25
    bungebunge Posts: 7,329member
    I think the high end G5 price scheme would work, but the G5 machines would have to be dual and/or quad machines. That would set a premium that would justify an expensive machine.
  • Reply 12 of 25
    programmerprogrammer Posts: 3,409member
    [quote]Originally posted by Ti Fighter:

    <strong>

    well apple did change all 7 pages for the Tower descriptions, so they must be a little excited</strong><hr></blockquote>





    Nah, they just have to give the marketing guys something to do.
  • Reply 13 of 25
    [quote]Originally posted by Programmer:

    <strong>





    Nah, they just have to give the marketing guys something to do.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    mmmmmmmm, Apple Propaganda



  • Reply 14 of 25
    tarbashtarbash Posts: 278member
    Exactly, they can't just let the same pages sit around with 867 MHz G4s being compared to 1.7 GHz P4s... or the graphics pages talkin about the GF3 when the GF4 is now shipping in PowerMacs.
  • Reply 15 of 25
    qaziiqazii Posts: 305member
    If G5's will not be ready for a while:



    The price cuts make sense for many reasons.

    1.\tMarket conditions

    2.\tIncreased competetiveness with PC's

    3.\tIncreased competetiveness with new iMacs

    etc.



    If G5's will be ready soon:



    Apple may be preparing to go for G4/G5 lineup, as mentioned. Apple does not want to remove these machines so soon after they are introduced, so they will introduce a rebate on the G4's when the G5's are announced. My guess would be that the top G4 will then be a little more expensive than the bottom G5, as it will have a few high-end extras such as a bigger hard drive and possibly a Superdrive.



    If Apple doesn't know whether G5's will be ready to release soon:



    These price cuts are a smart move because they'll have been the right move with either scenario.



    In other words, these price cuts tell us nothing about future hardware.
  • Reply 16 of 25
    [quote]Originally posted by The Swan:

    <strong>

    When Jobs came back he cleared out the clutter on the Mac lines and whacked it down to the four product matrix.

    </strong><hr></blockquote>

    I tend to think that this would be more of a temperary bending of the product matrix. I wouldn't expect the low end G4 to last more than 6-12 months, untill a G5 can take a price point somewhere near it. Also, I believer that it will simply be there, not that it will be highly publicized. Again, think of the CRT iMacs that are still being sold, but not whith any hype or really any mention by Apple. Think it in the samy way... NOT permenant, and simply there for the price point... because it will sell there.

    [quote]Originally posted by The Swan:

    <strong>

    If the G5 is everything it promises to be Apple can charge just about whatever it wants. Think about it, a wicked fast new processor, DDR SDRAM, faster FireWire, perhaps USB 2.0, SuperDrive, GF4, sounds like dream to me if it comes out this summer or before.</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Even with all that, in this economy, Apple can't just charge anything for they're products, they simply won't sell if they're too high.
  • Reply 17 of 25
    I have read many articles about the G5. Admittedly, without proof, no one can say for sure that it even exists as a potential desktop processor for future macs. I believe that it will come around at some point, and most of the arguments both ways are full of it (Apple NEEDS the G5 vs. Motorola hasn't said anything about it). The one thing I want to write about, and it surprises me to see so many people make the same mistake over and over regards price. Everyone seems to think that making the G5 on its 0.13 micron core is going to be more expensive than a G4 built on a 0.18 micron process. If the P4 and AthlonXP are any example, the new G5 will be cheaper than the G4. Here's why: if we assume that Motorola has already done the design for the chip, the cost is fixed. Considering that both G4's and (hypothetical) G5's are going to be produced at Motorola's existing fabs, despite costs for moving to 0.13 micron, the G5 will yield approximately double the number of chips per wafer (circular wafer means that a die size difference is squared, ie: 0.13/0.18^2=.52-&gt;half area). So if Motorola makes a G5 wafer, they get approximately twice as many chips. This could result in 3 possibilities or a combination of them both:

    1: significant reduction in chip price

    2: better yields (look for good chips for use with desktops)

    3: better profit margins for Motorola/Apple



    I expect to see some combination of the above three for any processor that Motorola produces at 0.13 micron. Look at Intel/AMD, after considering the competition, it's clear that the prices for their processors has both dropped substantially and both companies have seen FAT margins on their chip biz'.

    I hope a G5 comes out any day, I'd buy one right now, but what I really hope is that we the apple consumers can get in on some of the benefits of smaller processes that AMD and Intel users have been pissing their pants about for the last 2 years.



    Oh yeah, my point was, if new G5 machines are more expensive than G4's the only reasons will be marketing or Apple or Motorola trying to extract higher margins than they currently do, ie, we get screwed because there ain't competition.
  • Reply 18 of 25
    brussellbrussell Posts: 9,812member
    [quote]Originally posted by _LMark:

    <strong> Considering that both G4's and (hypothetical) G5's are going to be produced at Motorola's existing fabs, despite costs for moving to 0.13 micron, the G5 will yield approximately double the number of chips per wafer (circular wafer means that a die size difference is squared, ie: 0.13/0.18^2=.52-&gt;half area). So if Motorola makes a G5 wafer, they get approximately twice as many chips. This could result in 3 possibilities or a combination of them both:

    1: significant reduction in chip price

    2: better yields (look for good chips for use with desktops)

    3: better profit margins for Motorola/Apple

    </strong><hr></blockquote>

    But if <a href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/39/23158.html"; target="_blank">the source from The Register/MOSR</a> was accurate (yeah, I know), the G5 will be 192 sq mm, and the current G4 is 106 sq mm.
  • Reply 19 of 25
    I could be wrong, but if AIM can release a G5 that at 1.6 GHz is exponentially faster than any vaporware Intel is planning to release, we'll rant and rave about the price, but I can still see lines in the Apples stores and those big fat smiles that we all wear when we first partake of the out of-the-box experience.



    I may complain about the time it's taken to get the G5 out the door, but I don't want AIM to do as they did with the G4 which was deviate from Book E and other intended performance inclusions in the interest of getting to market. As far as the original G4 spec., AIM ended up with a stranger.



    At any rate, if it screams, we'll buy it and at **mn near any price.
  • Reply 20 of 25
    jcgjcg Posts: 777member
    [quote]Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg:

    <strong>I think if Apple were to introduce a "prosumer" tower computer line, they would use a new case. The current Powermac case is too expandable, i.e., too expensive, for a consumer computer. Apple would be better off to offer fewer PCI slots, less HD expansion space, in a smaller enclosure, so their manufacturing costs go down, and they can retain a high margin.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    That depends on how much it costs to design and manufacture a new mother board. Currently all they need to do is make a lower speed daughter card, which is the same daughter card in current models with a lower speed chip, and repositioned jumpers. Apple would save a lot of R&D and manufacturing costs by using the same case/boards. The real question is how many people would choose the lower end over the higher end models, which would cut into Apple profits.
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