Apple countersues Motorola over multi-touch iPhone patents

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 99
    Companies whose revenues are shrinking tend to sue more than be sued. Makes sense doesn't it? If you can't make money the good old fashioned way by earning it, try and take some from those who do. The elegant chart at InformationIsBeautiful.net (reposted on Apple 2.0) clearly depicts this. Apple is sued twice as often as it sues. Nokia is the lawsuit king.
  • Reply 62 of 99
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by g3pro View Post


    The only thing we learned is that Apple fanbois are hypocrites.



    Sounds like Blackint___ is here is spirit. Actually, I like being called a fanbois, pronounced properly it sound so French.



    Cheers y'all.
  • Reply 63 of 99
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 16,928member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post


    So what you are saying is if you want a rational, intelligent discussion, an Apple forum is not the place to have it?



    Don't be a troll. You know very well that's not what he was saying. Oh, and who the hell are you to discuss the merits of this case?
  • Reply 64 of 99
    jfanningjfanning Posts: 3,384member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    Sorry, but your ignorance doesn't mean that it's not true.



    Those documents don't reference Apple at all, I requested, and have requested several times for proof to your claim that Nokia was requesting more money from Apple than anyone else, please provide proof of this claim.
  • Reply 65 of 99
    jfanningjfanning Posts: 3,384member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Steve-J View Post


    His contention has become common knowledge in some circles. As such, proof is not important.



    So as long as you make things up in enough places you can say anything you like?
  • Reply 66 of 99
    jfanningjfanning Posts: 3,384member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post


    Apple also said, in court fillings, that Nokia wanted Apple to license some of it non-standard technologies to Nokia in exchange for the Nokia to license those standard technologies. When you have billions of dollars on the line, lying in court documents is not very smart. I am sure Apple didn't make these things up and they most likely have more than sufficient evidence (emails, correspondence.. etc) to support this claim. The easiest and most common respond in these cases is "we didn't infringe on these patents" but Apple didn't say that, which tells me that they are very confident in their claims.



    Like I said, I asked for proof, you have just said Apple said it. But Nokia also said that Apple refused to talk to them. So either one of them is lying, or both are telling the truth (somehow).



    So if you can't provide proof, don't make the claim in the first place, as like everyone else, you are only guessing.
  • Reply 67 of 99
    A very instructive article on who's suing who in tech, why, what it all means, and why it's here to stay, from last week's The Economist: http://www.economist.com/node/173092...6116#footnote1
  • Reply 68 of 99
    g3prog3pro Posts: 669member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rbonner View Post


    They didn't create, but had the vision to actually do something with it.



    So it's OK for Apple to steal, as long as they had "vision to do something with it"?
  • Reply 69 of 99
    steve-jsteve-j Posts: 320member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jfanning View Post


    So as long as you make things up in enough places you can say anything you like?



    There are many such shibboleths. That doesn't mean it is OK to repeat them.
  • Reply 70 of 99
    Would be nice if Apple just sued Google over Android.



    Oh wait, they can't, because Android is just an FOSS OS backed by Google, and have no money to give Apple.
  • Reply 71 of 99
    jahonenjahonen Posts: 364member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    Geez. Three requests over a 10 minute period around 3 am and you're whining that I haven't provided it? Did you ever think about getting a life?



    ...



    Sorry, but your ignorance doesn't mean that it's not true.



    Now you pull the ignorance card. Funny. 3am at your location doesn't mean 3am at mine. Ignorance? You've been asked before as well. Not just now.



    Your links provide information about what F/RAND is. that wasn't the thing you were asked to provide. I actually showed you in my posting that I do understand the concept. But you failed to provide the proof of your statement as requested. ignorance?



    "Apple said so" is not proof. assuming it is might be thought of as ignorance as Both companies have "said so" in court documents and assuming one company's statement is more truthful than the other's is a bit biased. Though this is a fan site so that is understandable.



    I'm interested in facts, not assumptions made by people and when repeated often enough, they become "accepted fact". For me that isn't fact.
  • Reply 72 of 99
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Ugh.. jfannaing and Steve-J have ruined another thread. <sigh> BTW, Steve-J is just a rebranded iGenuis/TeckStud/whatever, so can we ignore these [posters] and keep the threads useful and informative? Only you can prevent trolls from taking over.
  • Reply 73 of 99
    nasseraenasserae Posts: 3,153member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jfanning View Post


    Like I said, I asked for proof, you have just said Apple said it. But Nokia also said that Apple refused to talk to them. So either one of them is lying, or both are telling the truth (somehow).



    So if you can't provide proof, don't make the claim in the first place, as like everyone else, you are only guessing.



    You don't know either if this is true or not.



    We are not the judge nor the jury. We don't need proof to talk about what we know each side is saying. I never said Apple is right or Nokia is wrong. I don't need a proof to state an opinion about statements made by Nokia or Apple. Everything here is an opinion since no one here is an executive at Apple or Nokia.
  • Reply 74 of 99
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jfanning View Post


    Those documents don't reference Apple at all, I requested, and have requested several times for proof to your claim that Nokia was requesting more money from Apple than anyone else, please provide proof of this claim.



    The proof is in Nokia's own statement. They said that they engaged in lengthy negotiations to try to reach an agreement with Apple.



    If they offered Apple F/RAND terms, there would have been no lengthy negotiations. The fact that there were lengthy negotiations indicates that they were asking for something more than F/RAND from Apple.
  • Reply 75 of 99
    Motorola reminds me of PARC, who were sitting on gold piles of IP they had no clue how to market. Then someone comes along and makes them look like a bunch of buffoons.



    Cue lawsuits to create parity.
  • Reply 76 of 99
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jahonen View Post


    Now you pull the ignorance card. Funny. 3am at your location doesn't mean 3am at mine. Ignorance? You've been asked before as well. Not just now.



    Your links provide information about what F/RAND is. that wasn't the thing you were asked to provide. I actually showed you in my posting that I do understand the concept. But you failed to provide the proof of your statement as requested. ignorance?



    "Apple said so" is not proof. assuming it is might be thought of as ignorance as Both companies have "said so" in court documents and assuming one company's statement is more truthful than the other's is a bit biased. Though this is a fan site so that is understandable.



    I'm interested in facts, not assumptions made by people and when repeated often enough, they become "accepted fact". For me that isn't fact.



    Because surely this site doesn't get enough attention from the Microsofties, the Fandroids, the Pomme Haiteurs, and those either terminally arbitrary or once again off their meds. At least with you we get the chill breezes that blow off the coast of Finland.



    yritä näyttää hyvää suomea kohteliaisuus täällä my friend.
  • Reply 77 of 99
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Ugh.. jfannaing and Steve-J have ruined another thread. <sigh> BTW, Steve-J is just a rebranded iGenuis/TeckStud/whatever, so can we ignore these [posters] and keep the threads useful and informative? Only you can prevent trolls from taking over.



    The darkly reborn Techst../Blackin.../iGeni... self-important contrarians OR AI 'bots designed to drive up commentary and hits! YES!!



    SO on topic, this was inevitable as these major players try to leverage IP to even the playing field. Which is richly ironic since all the old school handheld makers, especially good old Moto announced that the iPhone would fail miserably because "we have been doing this a long time and no upstart, nearly-failed computer maker is gonna tell us how things are done on our own turf".



    Say what you will, the fortunes of these companies have not been as rosy as they were prior to the introduction of the iPhone: when they rationed out features and capacity as if they were wartime commodities. When the carriers dictated every aspect of your user experience, and charged you an arm and a leg for it. Like the petroleum/energy companies and the automotive industry in America, there was and is collusion at every opportunity. SO Nokia wants F/RAND only as long as they get to take exception whenever they like to protect their marketshare, despite having signed onto the standards agreement. Yeah. ANd Moto can't maintain a decent R&D approach because they are more interested in rolling a dozen or so "new" designs each year so the mobile geeks can haz their latest kit, and everyone seems to have different hardware because they changed the plastic outerware on cookie-cuuter guts. Same as HTC, Sony/Ericksson, LG.
  • Reply 78 of 99
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LewysBlackmore View Post


    Say what you will, the fortunes of these companies have not been as rosy as they were prior to the introduction of the iPhone: when they rationed out features and capacity as if they were wartime commodities. When the carriers dictated every aspect of your user experience, and charged you an arm and a leg for it.



    It?s pretty sad that the handset market was so poorly run that any company, even Apple, could come in and take over so quickly and without a real challenge to that throne. It looks like the majority of those grabbing Android are the ones that were the worse off, like Moto. The only ones that seem to have grown their percentage of the profits in the past 3 years is RiM and Samsung. Has Samsung been using Android as long as Moto and HTC?


    (Image courtesy of alexkhan2000 from a different post)
  • Reply 79 of 99
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iCarbon View Post


    If you want a balanced dialog, try a neutral site...



    this is an apple rumors site, as such most people on it are pro-apple.



    That said, this looks like the inevitable result of having everyone ignore everyone else's IP.



    I have to wonder if by negotiations failed they mean Apple told them they could take a hike cause they were infringing on patents too. Motorola shouldn't have picked a fight with a company they themselves are already stealing from, makes you look stupid.



    That said though, Apple shouldn't get away with stealing either, even if they are stealing from smucks.
  • Reply 80 of 99
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    The only ones that seem to have grown their percentage of the profits in the past 3 years is RiM and Samsung. Has Samsung been using Android as long as Moto and HTC?



    Samsung was definitely on board early with Android. They don't waste time. Samsung is a company that's really on the ball. They're earning close to $4 billion per quarter and is now the world's largest technology/CE company (will be $130 billion+ after their fiscal 2010). I mean, Samsung is leaving the Japanese electronics giants like Sony, Panasonic, Toshiba, and Hitachi as well as their Korean archenemy LG in the dust. Samsung is an extremely well-run company, especially considering all of the different products they offer.



    And being the smart company that they are, they're not putting all of their eggs in the Android basket. Of course, Samsung is offering the WP7 phones but are also offering phones with their own Bada OS/platform. In the big scheme of things, Samsung's phone business is not even close to being as profitable as their semiconductor and displays business. That's why Samsung is more than happy to produce chips and displays for Apple.



    It's a peculiar love-hate relationship that Apple and Samsung share. On one hand, they're very close partners and on the other, they're fierce competitors. They're the only two companies in the tech/CE hardware sector that are really growing and making tons of money. It only makes sense they rely on each other to grow and bring in gobs of profits. It'll be interesting to observe how this relationship between these two giants evolves in the years ahead. At some point, they'll probably diverge completely but that still seems years away. Samsung figures to remain on the cutting edge of chip and display development for a long time to come and Apple will need access to that technology at the volumes they need.
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