Brazilian billionaire hopes to court Apple for device assembly

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Comments

  • Reply 81 of 114
    wigginwiggin Posts: 2,265member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post


    While I agree that it would be great to produce Apple product in the U.S., as they originally did (in California), there's no way that could happen without a substantial increase in retail prices...probably double. Chinese workers are currently working for the equivalent of $135 a month. Even U.S. minimum wage would cost a lot more money. Furthermore, Chinese manufacturing works on very short margins. (And this is why I think pushing the Chinese to increase the value of their currency is a joke. Even if their currency doubled in value, it still wouldn't return any manufacturing to the U.S.)



    I addition to wage costs, many other things are also more expensive. Energy, environmental/pollution regulations, OSHA safety regulations, waste disposal, legal expenses, worker's compensation/injury, heath plan benefits, payroll taxes. Not to mention start-up costs of building new factories and all the infrastructure that goes along with that. Even in a highly automated factory, most of these exepenses still exist.



    And just what part of the manufacturing would we move to the US? The final assemly? That is probably a small part of the overall process. The majority of the work would still be done overseas, and you'd be paying to ship all those parts to the US (only to have half of what your produce shipped back out again to Apple's overseas customers). And any parts manufacturing you moved to the US (probably not much since those companies are overseas companies) would then result in higher parts cost due to all of the above, inflating the price even more.



    To even have a chance of being successful (and it would still result in higher prices), the US would need own the manufacturing of all the parts, too. The screens, processors, flash memory, batteries, drives, etc. But those aren't areas where the US leads anymore. Why would any of those foreign companies move their manufacturing to the US? Because they feel sorry for us?
  • Reply 82 of 114
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Roos24 View Post


    Always the same answer.



    In Germany, people keep buying Mercedes and BMW at prices twice that of a comparable Lexus. Why? Because if they would buy a Lexus their money would leave the country and they would have to pay the unemployed in their own country. It's a double-edged sword. It works there, why would it not work here?



    Because Americans will not buy these products if they cost a penny more. We are a penny wise country and the results of such a culture a re self-evident and will only get worse.
  • Reply 83 of 114
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Roos24 View Post


    Always the same answer.



    In Germany, people keep buying Mercedes and BMW at prices twice that of a comparable Lexus. Why? Because if they would buy a Lexus their money would leave the country and they would have to pay the unemployed in their own country. It's a double-edged sword. It works there, why would it not work here?



    Well, no wonder USA is broke.

    Germany also taxes big wealth, imagine that in the USA?



    : No way!
  • Reply 84 of 114
    It really doesn't matter where you look or locate to on Earth, the problem is still the same.

    The problem we have is money itself, and how we've all been hooked line and sinker, into believing it is something that somehow magically solves all our problems, when it only exacerbates it.



    We are all born free men, but I believe we have been lied to since birth by our so-called leaders that it is a neccessity, when from a spiritual perspective it hardly is. Look at how we view things now in life to see how low we've gone....so afraid of this job being exported, or that job taken, or this 'competitors products' being better. We are so focused on the loss of an income or job and competing with our very own brothers whether we are Chinese, Taiwanese, Brazilian or American we are losing our focus on our own true freedom......think about it!



    If we are to survive the coming years what must change first is our belief of property and ownership. Nobody should be more wealthy than the next person to them, and nobody should have more acreage either. Wealth and property should be equal amongst all, because it is only equality that provides balance. If there is no equality, then there is an imbalance in our own belief systems about rights, and this all boils down to the spiritual and how we each see things. Truthfully we all stem from the same source Creator, so in essence all Life are family. Also I have always believed that, if the world is working perfectly, ideally we don't need charities. This is because the existence of a charity means there is a problem in the 'system' that we are working in.



    The other aspect, is our belief in 'working'. Most people's belief in work is that it is a toil, that there is competition and they 'must' be paid this amount to be happy. It shouldn't be. You should be happy at all times and unaffected by whatever pay you have because you are adding more value into those products.



    Which brings me to automation. Automation should have helped make humanity's lives better, not worse. The reason we fear it right now is because we have automation geared towards a monetary financial model instead of a resource-based model economy (google Venus Project) where a simple work contract is all one needs to have all their other needs provided for by society. Until we work together on a system of governance based upon free and open principles, whereby we collectively combine our knowledge and resources as a race, we will never truly be free.
  • Reply 85 of 114
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Phone-UI-Guy View Post


    If Brazil would do away with their anti-import tariffs, you wouldn't need to produce the products in-country. Their protectionism is amazing and the fact that companies have to build product there to avoid the penalties is just dumb. Let them pay twice of what everyone else does until they open up their market to the rest of the world.



    The shining example of soaring US unemployment and manufacturing job loss is hardly going to convince Brazilians to stop protecting their economy. Opening up your market leads to cheap crap (and not-so-crap, like Apple stuff) from China, but then what?



    Dell is already building in Brazil, as is Sony. Apple can play or stay out. Brazil means Mercosur, which essentially means most of South America.



    This is up to Apple. I sure don't see Brazil changing a successful growth model for the sake of one brand.
  • Reply 86 of 114
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Middleman View Post


    It really doesn't matter where you look or locate to on Earth, the problem is still the same.

    The problem we have is money itself, and how we've all been hooked line and sinker, into believing it is something that somehow magically solves all our problems, when it only exacerbates it.



    You should have stopped after this paragraph
  • Reply 87 of 114
    mgl323mgl323 Posts: 247member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by brlawyer View Post


    As a Brazilian citizen working overseas, I can only hope this is true, for the following reasons:



    - We all speak ONE single language and have no internal terrorism/sectarian problems or natural disasters like many others (although urban violence is still a concern in some areas);



    - We have the hottest girls on Earth, bar none;



    - And NO, we are NOT "Latinos" in the formal US sense of the term - we have virtually NO indigenous population, we don't speak fucking Spanish and we don't share any values with other Latin American countries - Mexico is much closer in every respect to the US than to Brazil.





    "We all speak ONE single language"



    I'm pretty sure people in Brazil speak other languages other than portuguese.



    "We have the hottest girls on Earth, bar none;"



    People have different taste in women, others might say Italian women are hotter than Brazilian women, others might say US of A has the hottest women.



    "we don't speak fucking Spanish and we don't share any values with other Latin American countries"



    Again with the we, do you represent all of Brazilians? That's like saying Americans speak only English.
  • Reply 88 of 114
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 1,996member
    Apple does not manufacture its products in China. Does he understand this. It is Foxconn in Taiwan that manufactures Apple products in China. So if an American company or a Brazillian company that can offer to manufacture Apple products in US or Brazil at a price that can compete with Foxconn, Apple will certainly accept it.



    Apple made is original Macintosh in California. The cost is too high. This is one forgotten reason that Apple lost to the cheap IBM PC clones by Taiwanese companies. Apple can certainly compete with HP, DELL, Compaq if they make PCs in US.
  • Reply 89 of 114
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Roos24 View Post


    Always the same answer.



    In Germany, people keep buying Mercedes and BMW at prices twice that of a comparable Lexus. Why? Because if they would buy a Lexus their money would leave the country and they would have to pay the unemployed in their own country. It's a double-edged sword. It works there, why would it not work here?



    Agree. Intel makes chips here etc. Yes wages etc would add to cost, but the money stays here. So all you bright ops out there, this is how is it that Germany Finn etc have the highest wages and bene's in the world, six weeks vacation, tons of unions etc, and have a positive trade balance. They also don't blame the poor, they realize for a majority of poor, it's an offshot of capitalism. Remember during the bubble, unemployment was next to nothing, so they will work if there's a job. What do they give up(greatly simplified), have to be chosen to go to college, f22's, pay for fee healthcare, 3000ft homes for two, and other big ticket items. It's a choice, we chose cheap little junk from china and big junk to live and drive in and political bickering of blame the other.



    And yes apple should open a factory here.
  • Reply 90 of 114
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 1,996member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Roos24 View Post


    Always the same answer.



    In Germany, people keep buying Mercedes and BMW at prices twice that of a comparable Lexus. Why? Because if they would buy a Lexus their money would leave the country and they would have to pay the unemployed in their own country. It's a double-edged sword. It works there, why would it not work here?



    This is comparing apples to oranges. Car manufacturing is completely different from high tech manufacturing. If Germans are so great, why there is no PCs made in Germany?
  • Reply 91 of 114
    A Brazilian a-hole who doesn't know what he's talking about. Portuguese people are Latinos you dumb ass, and a large number of your people are mestizos, enough said!!! Asshole, go back to your crap pit, you'd wish you knew Spanish, one of the most beautiful sounding languages in the world with a native speaker population of almost a billion people, you asshole. I'd wish I had you in front if me you I kick your ass.
  • Reply 92 of 114
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by brlawyer View Post


    As a Brazilian citizen working overseas, I can only hope this is true, for the following reasons:



    - Brazil is the second-biggest Western democracy behind the US;




    A Brazilian asshole who doesn't know what he's talking about, and makes his own people sound so stupid and un-educated. Feel sorry for the country of Brazil who gave birth to such lowlife. Portuguese people are Latinos you dumb ass, and a large number of your people are mestizos, enough said!!! Asshole, go back to your crap pit, you'd wish you knew Spanish, one of the most beautiful sounding languages in the world with a native speaker population of almost a billion people, you asshole. I'd wish I had you in front of me so I can kick your ass.
  • Reply 93 of 114
    wigginwiggin Posts: 2,265member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Middleman View Post


    It really doesn't matter where you look or locate to on Earth, the problem is still the same.

    The problem we have is money itself, and how we've all been hooked line and sinker, into believing it is something that somehow magically solves all our problems, when it only exacerbates it.



    We are all born free men, but I believe we have been lied to since birth by our so-called leaders that it is a neccessity, when from a spiritual perspective it hardly is. Look at how we view things now in life to see how low we've gone....so afraid of this job being exported, or that job taken, or this 'competitors products' being better. We are so focused on the loss of an income or job and competing with our very own brothers whether we are Chinese, Taiwanese, Brazilian or American we are losing our focus on our own true freedom......think about it!



    If we are to survive the coming years what must change first is our belief of property and ownership. Nobody should be more wealthy than the next person to them, and nobody should have more acreage either. Wealth and property should be equal amongst all, because it is only equality that provides balance. If there is no equality, then there is an imbalance in our own belief systems about rights, and this all boils down to the spiritual and how we each see things. Truthfully we all stem from the same source Creator, so in essence all Life are family. Also I have always believed that, if the world is working perfectly, ideally we don't need charities. This is because the existence of a charity means there is a problem in the 'system' that we are working in.



    The other aspect, is our belief in 'working'. Most people's belief in work is that it is a toil, that there is competition and they 'must' be paid this amount to be happy. It shouldn't be. You should be happy at all times and unaffected by whatever pay you have because you are adding more value into those products.



    Which brings me to automation. Automation should have helped make humanity's lives better, not worse. The reason we fear it right now is because we have automation geared towards a monetary financial model instead of a resource-based model economy (google Venus Project) where a simple work contract is all one needs to have all their other needs provided for by society. Until we work together on a system of governance based upon free and open principles, whereby we collectively combine our knowledge and resources as a race, we will never truly be free.



    The huge flaw in your argument is the assumption that all people are willing and able to contribute to your idealistic society. Give two farmers equal plots of land. One farmer is hard working, smart about managing his land, and produces bountiful crops. The other farmer is perhaps unskilled, unmotivated, or simply incapable of producing any crops. Isn't it then in the best interest of society as a whole to give the first farmer a larger plot of land in order to allow him to contribute more food to the population?



    I agree with your premise that money and possessions get far too much focus in today's society, especially in the US. I believe that we, as a society, should help our fellow man to improve his/her situation (education, training, etc), but I do not believe that others should be able to sit back and benefit equally from the hard work of others.
  • Reply 94 of 114
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Radar View Post


    Absolutely true! But I'd still favor Brazil over China simply because China is getting far too big for their boots these days and they need to know they can't dictate their terms to every nation on earth.



    I'm not speaking of Chinese people here of course, but the Chinese government.



    Stones and glass houses springs to mind. How the mighty have fallen. It'll be back to picking cotton for us in the western world.
  • Reply 95 of 114
    This is interesting, labor costs are still much

    cheaper in China but Brazil is much closer. If

    they could make it so that transportation costs

    make up for the difference in labor costs, and

    match the same incentives from the Chinese

    government, then this just might work out for

    the Brazilian.
  • Reply 96 of 114
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh View Post


    A diversified manufacturing base for Apple is in their own best interests. But... Brazil's popluation is under 200MM, and they don't really have expertise in this area, do they? I would think they would need to get a Hon Hai or the ilk to run the thing.



    Interesting concept though. Hope a factory comes to the US as well eventually... but just for domestic consumption rates.



    Brazil makes aircraft, motor cars, electrical equipment and many other up to date products. They would certainly be able to make Apple products to acceptable standards at competitive prices. For Apple to diversify out of Asia would be a good thing. In any case, Chinese labor costs are bound to rise.
  • Reply 97 of 114
    This is not going to happen anytime soon.

    The fact is that China and India are the largest markets for Apple in the near future.

    Brazil does not know how to produce in large numbers, high quality hightech gadgets. Companies like Foxconn have decades of experience of perfecting the art of producing gadgets and maintaining quality. The touch screens and flash memory are made in South Korea, and some chips and mainboards are made in China, Taiwan and Japan.



    When the supply chain and the largest markets are in Asia, Foxconn will maintain most of its factories in Asia.



    The BMW example is not valid. Remember that BMW does have factories in China and India.
  • Reply 98 of 114
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    The eighth richest man in the world hopes he will be able to convince Apple to assemble its products in Brazil, rather than in sometimes-controversial facilities in China.



    According to MacMagazine in Brazil, Eike Batista is looking to court businesses to fill in 90 square miles of space at the Port of Acu. He said bringing Apple to Brazil would benefit the country, as customers there would likely no longer have to "pay twice what you pay in the United States."



    Batista is clearly dreaming big, as his backup plan is to pitch his plan to carmaker BMW. Construction work is already under way on the Port of Acu, a $1.6 billion project in southeast Brazil.



    Batista is a Brazilian entrepreneur who made his fortune in the mining industry. As of 2010, the 53-year-old has a total net worth of $27 billion, and he has publicly stated he hopes to eventually become the richest person in the world. For comparison, Apple Chief Executive Steve Jobs has a net worth of $6.1 billion, making him the 42nd wealthiest American.



    Apple's dependance on companies in the Far East to create and assemble its products has at times been a point of controversy. Earlier this year, the iPhone maker was compelled to make a public statement after a rash of suicides occurred at the manufacturing hub of Foxconn in Shenzhen, China.



    Apple began auditing its plants in 2006 after a newspaper report suggested workers at a Foxconn plant were treated unfairly and forced to operate under sweatshop-like conditions. Apple now conducts an annual audit of its overseas partners, and last year found that more than half weren't paying their workers valid overtime rates.



    Let Jobs start to make his computers in the good old USA not China or other foreign countries. We need jobs here and to boost the economy!
  • Reply 99 of 114
    I remember when Apple products were made in the US and Ireland. Strangely the quality was a lot better back then...
  • Reply 100 of 114
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alonso Perez View Post


    The shining example of soaring US unemployment and manufacturing job loss is hardly going to convince Brazilians to stop protecting their economy. Opening up your market leads to cheap crap (and not-so-crap, like Apple stuff) from China, but then what?



    Dell is already building in Brazil, as is Sony. Apple can play or stay out. Brazil means Mercosur, which essentially means most of South America.



    This is up to Apple. I sure don't see Brazil changing a successful growth model for the sake of one brand.



    Having to build in-country with their incompetent ODMs, JDMs, and CMs is a waste of effort. Apple could find better places to build product than Brazil.
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