So where are all the usual European suspects who come in and post how they can change SIM cards whenever they want and pay 2Â? for billions of GB of data for tethering to their laptops at phenomenal speeds everywhere they go and unlimited calls because Europe is oh, so much better than America and networks there allow freedom to do what you want backed up by the EU.
Don't worry, Google will step in with Android to pick up the slack and put things back the way they were, for the carriers.
Well given that AI posted this article at 21:26, that would make the time in london 05:26 if the AI clock is relevant to California. So the answer to your question is likely to be 'asleep'.
Seriously, Americans have a very poor reputation when it comes to their knowledge of geography, but I had no idea it was so bad that you weren't aware the earth is roughly spherical.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sennen
had to chuckle - at both points.
See above
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwfrederick
a universal iPhone would be awesome. it would streamline costs and decrease overhead, particularly for the carriers who maintain retail stores whose sole purpose (just about) is to deal with sim cards.
but europeans are completely insane so who knows..
Were insane eh? You lot have far more serious deficiencies - see above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin
I think some folks here are being anti-carrier just for the sake of being anti carrier. I'm thinking about it from a customer's standpoint. If it requires special software or something to update an integrated SIM, that means I need to give my phone to the carrier to update? Or is Apple trying to also require that it's an over-the-air update under Apple's control? But what if I don't have service in the country I just arrived in? How do I get a connection to update my iPhone to get a connection? Catch-22. What if I travel to an area that Apple doesn't have a contract with to update my iPhone to work on a local carrier? Then you are simply screwed as there would be no way to make your phone work there.
I'm surprised people are so willing to give up the freedom to be able to pick up a SIM card wherever you are and pop it in. Wouldn't it be better for Apple to leave the SIM card slot and just sell unlocked phones? I'm going to be a pessimist here and view this as an attempt by Apple to force carriers to sign contracts with them, even if the carrier doesn't carry the iPhone. Today, an iPhone user can choose to use any carrier if they have an unlocked iPhone. With an integrated SIM, you are limited to only "Apple-approved" carriers. And if Apple doesn't happen to have an arrangement with the carrier you want to use, tough luck for you.
OMG, someone speaking sense.
The micro SIM was a shÃ*tty and completely anti-consumer convenience idea and so is this. Carrier kiosks/shops are not available everywhere so this whole idea has knobs on it. Try arriving at an international airport anywhere at 04:30 local time and finding a carrier kiosk open to get you hooked up - you'll find them shut.
Anyone who travels a bit internationally would be seriously, seriously inconvenienced by not being able to just grab a PAYG SIM and getting on with it. They would most likely choose to use another phone. The micro SIM idea was bad enough but this is bonkers.
I was recently in Australia and was juggling 4 different SIMs between 2 phones and a 3G modem. At one point I used one of my SIMs in a GSM CCTV device. And what happens when you have a problem with your iPhone, you won't be able to pop the SIM out and use a backup phone. Oh, you can't do that with your genius micro SIMs anyway, can you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42
LOL - I was waiting for someone to point this out. Thanks for pointing out the irony
see above
Quote:
Originally Posted by LewysBlackmore
Let's break this down a bit since you want to blizzard issues here:
- why would it require special software? why wouldn't a hardcoded registry code that could be read off the device or input and validated on first call work? So you don't have to give the carrier anything except the code from the phone and they validate when used.
-Apple doesn't have to support anything like supplying updates like that - think logistics here instead of panicking because you can't conceive of a workable, intelligent, consumer-friendly system.
-No contracts just you buying a phone that simply works where and when you need it no extra SIM tray to futz with, no trying to buy a SIM card off a local supplier.
-just because you can't conceive of a system that doesn't require you running around buying little bits of trace-imprinted plastic to shove in your cellphone, doesn't mean there isn't a practical, sensible and consumer friendly way to do it. You are letting your paranoia blind you to the obvious. Will the carriers fight it - of course. They want as much control as consumers will allow them to be fooled into granting the carriers. But they are remarkably in the same boat as landline suppliers, media broadcasters/cable suppliers, and the recording industry - they are going to slowly and inexorably become commoditized - kicking and screaming all the way.
For those complaining about the difficulty getting service initially with the built in SIM, you realize of course there are GPSs built into the phones right? That would immediately let the phone and software know where you are. Besides, even without that, It would be fairly easy to code the software to auto-detect available carriers and present the user with an option to select one of the Carriers should he have no service. After the user selects the carrier of choice, the phone can automatically download the carrier profile from the carrier's network. I'm not exactly sure I understand what your problems are with this. It's simple and efficient. And if someone wants to change carriers, then just like we change WiFi networks, we could do the same with carriers with such a device (which, again, upon selection provides the terms and conditions of each carrier). E-z p-z and no waste of plastic. And again no need for carriers to have a contract with Apple, just the ability to distribute the carrier profile and terms of agreement should a device make the request. This would be good for the carriers since it would make things easier than distributing SIMs all over the place (from the consumer standpoint, no need to look for a kiosk or anything of the kind, it just works within the time it takes to download a small profile and for you to accept the terms and conditions; from the carrier standpoint, no need to worry about distributing SIMs all over the place). The only downside is the point about the Contracts they want to impose on their consumers, but that's a different issue I'm not getting into.
For instance, if I travel to Macau, I can go to a vending machine and buy a pre-paid SIM, take my home SIM out of my phone, swap in the new SIM, and I'm free to go. I don't even need to go to a fucking store. I don't have to give anyone my name or address.
Or maybe I have some contacts at home I don't want to call with my normal number. So I swap SIMs with another local carrier, or with the same carrier, different number, or the same carrier, different subscription plan. How the hell does one manage multiple carriers/numbers/plans with an embedded SIM?
This seems like horrible, horrible lock-in to me. And it would to anyone else who uses an unlocked phone. The problem is not the SIM, the problem is the locking. The SIM, actually, gives us the freedom to switch at a whim. With an embedded SIM that freedom would be taken away.
How about traveling? You arrive at a foreign airport at 1:00am. Of course all the mobile phone carrier shops are closed. Normally, with GSM and an unlocked phone, you just go to a convenience store or a vending machine and get a prepaid SIM, and you just pop it in. How would that work with an embedded SIM?
If they cared about the customers half of what they state, then they would act differently!
I'm sick of carriers in Europe, sick!
I have a contract with Orange in Switzerland, then travel to France and have to pay Orange France a romaning charge because my contract is with Orange Switzerland?! That's just milking customers. Money goes all to the same pocket (Telecom France), so much for the "Union" part in the "European Union" (before you all jump on me. I know Switzerland isn't part of the EU, but I could have used the example with Vodafone Italy and Vodafone UK, or any other carrier for that matter).
Carriers' main focus was to lock you in a contract, not to provide any relevant services for you to enjoy. Only when Apple (and now Android and maybe Windows) came out with a new business model, carriers started noticing. They had several years to try to figure out something. All they came up with were stupid backgrounds and expensive ringtones. Nothing else, nothing new.
I am not in favor of Apple taking control of the SIM part (because I want to keep my freedom in chosing the carrier) but I am also not in favour of carriers being suddenly interested in their own customers...
Carriers, at least in Europe, are the greatest hipocrits in the business world.
Nothing Changes. You simple get an Vending Machine with NFC that allows the Sim Card Information written into the embedded sim. The whole process is the same except that you no longer have to pop in the Sim anymore.
Nothing Changes. You simple get an Vending Machine with NFC that allows the Sim Card Information written into the embedded sim. The whole process is the same except that you no longer have to pop in the Sim anymore.
This is just speculation, but why even require the vending machine? i.e. You arrive in a foreign airport at 1am, your embedded sim sees from the surrounding networks that you're in another country, and connects to one with restricted data access allowing you to sign up to and select a contract from the local carriers on the device. You get back home and get prompted to switch back to your original line. Sounds pretty convenient to me.
So where are all the usual European suspects who come in and post how they can change SIM cards whenever they want and pay 2? for billions of GB of data for tethering to their laptops at phenomenal speeds everywhere they go and unlimited calls because Europe is oh, so much better than America and networks there allow freedom to do what you want backed up by the EU.
Don't worry, Google will step in with Android to pick up the slack and put things back the way they were, for the carriers.
well im from the uk, and you pay a terminastion fee if you want to change service, or you let it carry on and pay the remaining amount. On the o2 network you have 500mb per month for like a £40 contract ? So someone is obviously bluffing about the deals over here!
This is just speculation, but why even require the vending machine? i.e. You arrive in a foreign airport at 1am, your embedded sim sees from the surrounding networks that you're in another country, and connects to one with restricted data access allowing you to sign up to and select a contract from the local carriers on the device. You get back home and get prompted to switch back to your original line. Sounds pretty convenient to me.
1. How do you pay?
2. If you enter info to pay later, how do they know it's valid info?
3. What if you don't have a credit card or don't want to use it?
Well as I'm in Australia, your cocerns about timezones are irrelevant, you must be German or maybe Belgian perhaps to have such a non existant sense of humour.
You can get SIM adaptors to enable use of a microSIM in normal SIM trays we sell them and use them for our loan phones when iPhone 4's are sent for repair.
Now if you look in your iPhone's settings menu under General and About, if you scroll down you'll see ICCID which is your SIM number.
It connects your phone to the network, that number when entered into a networks backend is what makes GSM phones work.
It would take a little bit of work to make that number compatible with multiple carriers and there would be some possible security issues regarding ownership of the phone/SIM combination, but nothing too hard to overcome.
So you arrive at the airport fire up your browser, make a quick phone call or drop into a kiosk, provide that number so it can be entered into the system pay for some credit and you're done.
You could also arrange to do it before you leave.
I've activated thousands of SIM cards, you scan or type in the ICCID number and hit submit, the old SIM stops working the new one starts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui
Well given that AI posted this article at 21:26, that would make the time in london 05:26 if the AI clock is relevant to California. So the answer to your question is likely to be 'asleep'.
Seriously, Americans have a very poor reputation when it comes to their knowledge of geography, but I had no idea it was so bad that you weren't aware the earth is roughly spherical.
See above
Were insane eh? You lot have far more serious deficiencies - see above.
OMG, someone speaking sense.
The micro SIM was a shÃ*tty and completely anti-consumer convenience idea and so is this. Carrier kiosks/shops are not available everywhere so this whole idea has knobs on it. Try arriving at an international airport anywhere at 04:30 local time and finding a carrier kiosk open to get you hooked up - you'll find them shut.
Anyone who travels a bit internationally would be seriously, seriously inconvenienced by not being able to just grab a PAYG SIM and getting on with it. They would most likely choose to use another phone. The micro SIM idea was bad enough but this is bonkers.
I was recently in Australia and was juggling 4 different SIMs between 2 phones and a 3G modem. At one point I used one of my SIMs in a GSM CCTV device. And what happens when you have a problem with your iPhone, you won't be able to pop the SIM out and use a backup phone. Oh, you can't do that with your genius micro SIMs anyway, can you?
see above
Back in the real world...
Try and get an unlocked Nokia phone in Australia, you'll find they don't exist, all loaded up with network crapware as they are, good luck with finding a "vanilla" unlocked one.
My iPhone 4 on the other hand IS unlocked, I can put any microSIM in it I want from any carrier who wants my money.
btw isn't Ireland, you know, sort of in Europe?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scaramanga89
I split my time between Ireland and Europe, and I change my sim often to get around the high roaming charges. The micro sim already made it difficult, but this would make it impossible. A lot of Europeans travel over the summer and swop out their sims, I dont think this would prove popular with them. I only use unlocked phones, I have to. I think it's one of the reasons Nokia is often chosen.
It would allow the carriers to charge whatever they wanted for data though. Not good.
Yeah, I know, I was takin' the piss.
I pay the equivalent of ￡36 and get 2GB of data plus more calls than I'd ever use with unlimited SMS and MMS and zero upfront for an iPhone 4 16GB
Quote:
Originally Posted by radyraa
well im from the uk, and you pay a terminastion fee if you want to change service, or you let it carry on and pay the remaining amount. On the o2 network you have 500mb per month for like a £40 contract ? So someone is obviously bluffing about the deals over here!
This seems like horrible, horrible lock-in to me. And it would to anyone else who uses an unlocked phone. The problem is not the SIM, the problem is the locking. The SIM, actually, gives us the freedom to switch at a whim. With an embedded SIM that freedom would be taken away.
You have any evidence for this? It's a crazy assertion. The idea is very simple. Just like you change WiFi networks with your software, in the same way you would change Carriers with an embedded SIM through your software. No freedom is taken away, rather a bunch more is given to you.
2. If you enter info to pay later, how do they know it's valid info?
3. What if you don't have a credit card or don't want to use it?
1. Credit card.
2. Pay later? You might be out of the country in a day or an hour. You pay as you go for anything but your primary carrier (ie: AT&T US). Apple will eventually handle all of these payments for you. All you will see are simple fields in Settings.
3. How well is that working out for you now if you have an iPhone? The days of buying sims for cash for the iPhone is on it's way out.
The embedded SIM sounds very much like the whole configuration for the CDMA handsets in North America. The problem with this is that it requires calling an operator to do any change. The nice thing with a SIM card is that you buy it and then simply install it. This is a process that is easy to understand for the average user. Also in many countries this requires you have some sort of data or phone connection to start with, which is not always a realistic scenario.
A compromise option would be to copy the data from the SIM card to the device, so that you could essentially have multiple virtual SIMs active at once. This is something that is convenient for people that are traveling - I have debated whether to get a dual SIM-card phone myself to be able to cut down on roaming fees.
Apple better think carefully of all the possible usage scenarios before going down this route.
Edit: @John F.: I wasn't aware of that. I will have to do some reading to find out more about it. Do you have any references to "GSM Association's proposed embedded SIM cards with remote activation for 2012"?
Well as I'm in Australia, your cocerns about timezones are irrelevant, you must be German or maybe Belgian perhaps to have such a non existant sense of humour.
Australian actually.
I now realize why you have such a chip on your shoulder and inferiority complex concerning European phone operating costs - my condolences.
Quote:
So you arrive at the airport fire up your browser, make a quick phone call or drop into a kiosk, provide that number so it can be entered into the system pay for some credit and you're done.
So how would your phone number belong to two different carriers simultaneously? How would international prefixes work?. Would you still have to add the international prefixes for every local call, if so, that would be a pain, and if not, how would calls from your home network find you`?
Quote:
You could also arrange to do it before you leave.
I've activated thousands of SIM cards, you scan or type in the ICCID number and hit submit, the old SIM stops working the new one starts.
Given the hassle of getting even a data only SIM in Australia, i don't think it would ever be as easy as you make out and I don't see the powers that be like ASIO having a bar of this.
Quote:
Try and get an unlocked Nokia phone in Australia, you'll find they don't exist, all loaded up with network crapware as they are, good luck with finding a "vanilla" unlocked one.
My iPhone 4 on the other hand IS unlocked, I can put any microSIM in it I want from any carrier who wants my money.
So's my Samsung Wave, I can put any normal SIM in it. Seriously, you're bragging about having an unlocked phone?
Quote:
btw isn't Ireland, you know, sort of in Europe?
Well done, now study up on aeroplanes and their uses.
This is just speculation, but why even require the vending machine? i.e. You arrive in a foreign airport at 1am, your embedded sim sees from the surrounding networks that you're in another country, and connects to one with restricted data access allowing you to sign up to and select a contract from the local carriers on the device. You get back home and get prompted to switch back to your original line. Sounds pretty convenient to me.
Yes, that is convenient sounding. But it all comes down to how Apple implements and controls it. The bottom line is you'll have fewer carriers to choose from, those that opt-in and agree to Apple's terms, and those that don't/can't or that Apple doesn't allow.
Say for example this "next great thing" from Apple comes with terms that if a carrier wants to particiapte, they have to give Apple a cut of the fees. How is that in any way good for consumers?
It all depends on how Apple implements it. And today's Apple isn't as altruistic as they used to be.
I think the idea is that if you have an integrated universal SIM card built in then when you travel from one country to another there would be an app which finds available carriers in the country you are travelling to and lets you purchase pay-as-you-go credit for say one day or a week. The cost would be added to your home account or use PAYG credit. Saves having to switch SIM cards every time and avoids expensive roaming charges.
It would make me a bit less pessimistic about it if it were a GSM-wide standard, and not just an Apple thing. However, I think the inability to swap the SIM card to another device is a serious drawback. In fact, I would think then that the carriers would love this idea. It's a great way for them to force you to get a seperate contract for every device you own instead of being able to use the same contract by simply moving the SIM card to another device.
Comments
So where are all the usual European suspects who come in and post how they can change SIM cards whenever they want and pay 2Â? for billions of GB of data for tethering to their laptops at phenomenal speeds everywhere they go and unlimited calls because Europe is oh, so much better than America and networks there allow freedom to do what you want backed up by the EU.
Don't worry, Google will step in with Android to pick up the slack and put things back the way they were, for the carriers.
Well given that AI posted this article at 21:26, that would make the time in london 05:26 if the AI clock is relevant to California. So the answer to your question is likely to be 'asleep'.
Seriously, Americans have a very poor reputation when it comes to their knowledge of geography, but I had no idea it was so bad that you weren't aware the earth is roughly spherical.
had to chuckle - at both points.
See above
a universal iPhone would be awesome. it would streamline costs and decrease overhead, particularly for the carriers who maintain retail stores whose sole purpose (just about) is to deal with sim cards.
but europeans are completely insane so who knows..
Were insane eh? You lot have far more serious deficiencies - see above.
I think some folks here are being anti-carrier just for the sake of being anti carrier. I'm thinking about it from a customer's standpoint. If it requires special software or something to update an integrated SIM, that means I need to give my phone to the carrier to update? Or is Apple trying to also require that it's an over-the-air update under Apple's control? But what if I don't have service in the country I just arrived in? How do I get a connection to update my iPhone to get a connection? Catch-22. What if I travel to an area that Apple doesn't have a contract with to update my iPhone to work on a local carrier? Then you are simply screwed as there would be no way to make your phone work there.
I'm surprised people are so willing to give up the freedom to be able to pick up a SIM card wherever you are and pop it in. Wouldn't it be better for Apple to leave the SIM card slot and just sell unlocked phones? I'm going to be a pessimist here and view this as an attempt by Apple to force carriers to sign contracts with them, even if the carrier doesn't carry the iPhone. Today, an iPhone user can choose to use any carrier if they have an unlocked iPhone. With an integrated SIM, you are limited to only "Apple-approved" carriers. And if Apple doesn't happen to have an arrangement with the carrier you want to use, tough luck for you.
OMG, someone speaking sense.
The micro SIM was a shÃ*tty and completely anti-consumer convenience idea and so is this. Carrier kiosks/shops are not available everywhere so this whole idea has knobs on it. Try arriving at an international airport anywhere at 04:30 local time and finding a carrier kiosk open to get you hooked up - you'll find them shut.
Anyone who travels a bit internationally would be seriously, seriously inconvenienced by not being able to just grab a PAYG SIM and getting on with it. They would most likely choose to use another phone. The micro SIM idea was bad enough but this is bonkers.
I was recently in Australia and was juggling 4 different SIMs between 2 phones and a 3G modem. At one point I used one of my SIMs in a GSM CCTV device. And what happens when you have a problem with your iPhone, you won't be able to pop the SIM out and use a backup phone. Oh, you can't do that with your genius micro SIMs anyway, can you?
LOL - I was waiting for someone to point this out. Thanks for pointing out the irony
see above
Let's break this down a bit since you want to blizzard issues here:
- why would it require special software? why wouldn't a hardcoded registry code that could be read off the device or input and validated on first call work? So you don't have to give the carrier anything except the code from the phone and they validate when used.
-Apple doesn't have to support anything like supplying updates like that - think logistics here instead of panicking because you can't conceive of a workable, intelligent, consumer-friendly system.
-No contracts just you buying a phone that simply works where and when you need it no extra SIM tray to futz with, no trying to buy a SIM card off a local supplier.
-just because you can't conceive of a system that doesn't require you running around buying little bits of trace-imprinted plastic to shove in your cellphone, doesn't mean there isn't a practical, sensible and consumer friendly way to do it. You are letting your paranoia blind you to the obvious. Will the carriers fight it - of course. They want as much control as consumers will allow them to be fooled into granting the carriers. But they are remarkably in the same boat as landline suppliers, media broadcasters/cable suppliers, and the recording industry - they are going to slowly and inexorably become commoditized - kicking and screaming all the way.
Back in the real world...
For instance, if I travel to Macau, I can go to a vending machine and buy a pre-paid SIM, take my home SIM out of my phone, swap in the new SIM, and I'm free to go. I don't even need to go to a fucking store. I don't have to give anyone my name or address.
Or maybe I have some contacts at home I don't want to call with my normal number. So I swap SIMs with another local carrier, or with the same carrier, different number, or the same carrier, different subscription plan. How the hell does one manage multiple carriers/numbers/plans with an embedded SIM?
This seems like horrible, horrible lock-in to me. And it would to anyone else who uses an unlocked phone. The problem is not the SIM, the problem is the locking. The SIM, actually, gives us the freedom to switch at a whim. With an embedded SIM that freedom would be taken away.
How about traveling? You arrive at a foreign airport at 1:00am. Of course all the mobile phone carrier shops are closed. Normally, with GSM and an unlocked phone, you just go to a convenience store or a vending machine and get a prepaid SIM, and you just pop it in. How would that work with an embedded SIM?
I'm sick of carriers in Europe, sick!
I have a contract with Orange in Switzerland, then travel to France and have to pay Orange France a romaning charge because my contract is with Orange Switzerland?! That's just milking customers. Money goes all to the same pocket (Telecom France), so much for the "Union" part in the "European Union" (before you all jump on me. I know Switzerland isn't part of the EU, but I could have used the example with Vodafone Italy and Vodafone UK, or any other carrier for that matter).
Carriers' main focus was to lock you in a contract, not to provide any relevant services for you to enjoy. Only when Apple (and now Android and maybe Windows) came out with a new business model, carriers started noticing. They had several years to try to figure out something. All they came up with were stupid backgrounds and expensive ringtones. Nothing else, nothing new.
I am not in favor of Apple taking control of the SIM part (because I want to keep my freedom in chosing the carrier) but I am also not in favour of carriers being suddenly interested in their own customers...
Carriers, at least in Europe, are the greatest hipocrits in the business world.
Nothing Changes. You simple get an Vending Machine with NFC that allows the Sim Card Information written into the embedded sim. The whole process is the same except that you no longer have to pop in the Sim anymore.
This is just speculation, but why even require the vending machine? i.e. You arrive in a foreign airport at 1am, your embedded sim sees from the surrounding networks that you're in another country, and connects to one with restricted data access allowing you to sign up to and select a contract from the local carriers on the device. You get back home and get prompted to switch back to your original line. Sounds pretty convenient to me.
So where are all the usual European suspects who come in and post how they can change SIM cards whenever they want and pay 2? for billions of GB of data for tethering to their laptops at phenomenal speeds everywhere they go and unlimited calls because Europe is oh, so much better than America and networks there allow freedom to do what you want backed up by the EU.
Don't worry, Google will step in with Android to pick up the slack and put things back the way they were, for the carriers.
well im from the uk, and you pay a terminastion fee if you want to change service, or you let it carry on and pay the remaining amount. On the o2 network you have 500mb per month for like a £40 contract ? So someone is obviously bluffing about the deals over here!
This is just speculation, but why even require the vending machine? i.e. You arrive in a foreign airport at 1am, your embedded sim sees from the surrounding networks that you're in another country, and connects to one with restricted data access allowing you to sign up to and select a contract from the local carriers on the device. You get back home and get prompted to switch back to your original line. Sounds pretty convenient to me.
1. How do you pay?
2. If you enter info to pay later, how do they know it's valid info?
3. What if you don't have a credit card or don't want to use it?
...[the mobile operators] cede customer control to handset vendors like Apple, [and are] relegated to commodity capacity providers.
This is exactly the role that the carriers ought to occupy. Anything that drives them in that direction is a good thing.
You can get SIM adaptors to enable use of a microSIM in normal SIM trays we sell them and use them for our loan phones when iPhone 4's are sent for repair.
Now if you look in your iPhone's settings menu under General and About, if you scroll down you'll see ICCID which is your SIM number.
It connects your phone to the network, that number when entered into a networks backend is what makes GSM phones work.
It would take a little bit of work to make that number compatible with multiple carriers and there would be some possible security issues regarding ownership of the phone/SIM combination, but nothing too hard to overcome.
So you arrive at the airport fire up your browser, make a quick phone call or drop into a kiosk, provide that number so it can be entered into the system pay for some credit and you're done.
You could also arrange to do it before you leave.
I've activated thousands of SIM cards, you scan or type in the ICCID number and hit submit, the old SIM stops working the new one starts.
Well given that AI posted this article at 21:26, that would make the time in london 05:26 if the AI clock is relevant to California. So the answer to your question is likely to be 'asleep'.
Seriously, Americans have a very poor reputation when it comes to their knowledge of geography, but I had no idea it was so bad that you weren't aware the earth is roughly spherical.
See above
Were insane eh? You lot have far more serious deficiencies - see above.
OMG, someone speaking sense.
The micro SIM was a shÃ*tty and completely anti-consumer convenience idea and so is this. Carrier kiosks/shops are not available everywhere so this whole idea has knobs on it. Try arriving at an international airport anywhere at 04:30 local time and finding a carrier kiosk open to get you hooked up - you'll find them shut.
Anyone who travels a bit internationally would be seriously, seriously inconvenienced by not being able to just grab a PAYG SIM and getting on with it. They would most likely choose to use another phone. The micro SIM idea was bad enough but this is bonkers.
I was recently in Australia and was juggling 4 different SIMs between 2 phones and a 3G modem. At one point I used one of my SIMs in a GSM CCTV device. And what happens when you have a problem with your iPhone, you won't be able to pop the SIM out and use a backup phone. Oh, you can't do that with your genius micro SIMs anyway, can you?
see above
Back in the real world...
Try and get an unlocked Nokia phone in Australia, you'll find they don't exist, all loaded up with network crapware as they are, good luck with finding a "vanilla" unlocked one.
My iPhone 4 on the other hand IS unlocked, I can put any microSIM in it I want from any carrier who wants my money.
btw isn't Ireland, you know, sort of in Europe?
I split my time between Ireland and Europe, and I change my sim often to get around the high roaming charges. The micro sim already made it difficult, but this would make it impossible. A lot of Europeans travel over the summer and swop out their sims, I dont think this would prove popular with them. I only use unlocked phones, I have to. I think it's one of the reasons Nokia is often chosen.
It would allow the carriers to charge whatever they wanted for data though. Not good.
Yeah, I know, I was takin' the piss.
I pay the equivalent of ￡36 and get 2GB of data plus more calls than I'd ever use with unlimited SMS and MMS and zero upfront for an iPhone 4 16GB
well im from the uk, and you pay a terminastion fee if you want to change service, or you let it carry on and pay the remaining amount. On the o2 network you have 500mb per month for like a £40 contract ? So someone is obviously bluffing about the deals over here!
So it's coming, via Apple or otherwise.
This seems like horrible, horrible lock-in to me. And it would to anyone else who uses an unlocked phone. The problem is not the SIM, the problem is the locking. The SIM, actually, gives us the freedom to switch at a whim. With an embedded SIM that freedom would be taken away.
You have any evidence for this? It's a crazy assertion. The idea is very simple. Just like you change WiFi networks with your software, in the same way you would change Carriers with an embedded SIM through your software. No freedom is taken away, rather a bunch more is given to you.
"Then don't carry it. I'm sure your customers will love that."
-Steve
Sent from my iPhone (with embedded sim)
1. How do you pay?
2. If you enter info to pay later, how do they know it's valid info?
3. What if you don't have a credit card or don't want to use it?
1. Credit card.
2. Pay later? You might be out of the country in a day or an hour. You pay as you go for anything but your primary carrier (ie: AT&T US). Apple will eventually handle all of these payments for you. All you will see are simple fields in Settings.
3. How well is that working out for you now if you have an iPhone? The days of buying sims for cash for the iPhone is on it's way out.
A compromise option would be to copy the data from the SIM card to the device, so that you could essentially have multiple virtual SIMs active at once. This is something that is convenient for people that are traveling - I have debated whether to get a dual SIM-card phone myself to be able to cut down on roaming fees.
Apple better think carefully of all the possible usage scenarios before going down this route.
Edit: @John F.: I wasn't aware of that. I will have to do some reading to find out more about it. Do you have any references to "GSM Association's proposed embedded SIM cards with remote activation for 2012"?
Well as I'm in Australia, your cocerns about timezones are irrelevant, you must be German or maybe Belgian perhaps to have such a non existant sense of humour.
Australian actually.
I now realize why you have such a chip on your shoulder and inferiority complex concerning European phone operating costs - my condolences.
So you arrive at the airport fire up your browser, make a quick phone call or drop into a kiosk, provide that number so it can be entered into the system pay for some credit and you're done.
So how would your phone number belong to two different carriers simultaneously? How would international prefixes work?. Would you still have to add the international prefixes for every local call, if so, that would be a pain, and if not, how would calls from your home network find you`?
You could also arrange to do it before you leave.
I've activated thousands of SIM cards, you scan or type in the ICCID number and hit submit, the old SIM stops working the new one starts.
Given the hassle of getting even a data only SIM in Australia, i don't think it would ever be as easy as you make out and I don't see the powers that be like ASIO having a bar of this.
Try and get an unlocked Nokia phone in Australia, you'll find they don't exist, all loaded up with network crapware as they are, good luck with finding a "vanilla" unlocked one.
My iPhone 4 on the other hand IS unlocked, I can put any microSIM in it I want from any carrier who wants my money.
So's my Samsung Wave, I can put any normal SIM in it. Seriously, you're bragging about having an unlocked phone?
btw isn't Ireland, you know, sort of in Europe?
Well done, now study up on aeroplanes and their uses.
Do you have any references to "GSM Association's proposed embedded SIM cards with remote activation for 2012"?
Have you considered pasting that same phrase in say, a search engine?
GSM Association's proposed embedded SIM cards with remote activation for 2012
This is just speculation, but why even require the vending machine? i.e. You arrive in a foreign airport at 1am, your embedded sim sees from the surrounding networks that you're in another country, and connects to one with restricted data access allowing you to sign up to and select a contract from the local carriers on the device. You get back home and get prompted to switch back to your original line. Sounds pretty convenient to me.
Yes, that is convenient sounding. But it all comes down to how Apple implements and controls it. The bottom line is you'll have fewer carriers to choose from, those that opt-in and agree to Apple's terms, and those that don't/can't or that Apple doesn't allow.
Say for example this "next great thing" from Apple comes with terms that if a carrier wants to particiapte, they have to give Apple a cut of the fees. How is that in any way good for consumers?
It all depends on how Apple implements it. And today's Apple isn't as altruistic as they used to be.
Have you considered pasting that same phrase in say, a search engine?
GSM Association's proposed embedded SIM cards with remote activation for 2012
It would make me a bit less pessimistic about it if it were a GSM-wide standard, and not just an Apple thing. However, I think the inability to swap the SIM card to another device is a serious drawback. In fact, I would think then that the carriers would love this idea. It's a great way for them to force you to get a seperate contract for every device you own instead of being able to use the same contract by simply moving the SIM card to another device.