Florida man accuses Apple store of age discrimination

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Comments

  • Reply 81 of 180
    adonissmuadonissmu Posts: 1,776member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chronster View Post


    Noooo, they're saying they found reasonable cause, meaning it's worth an investigation. Reasonable cause could simply be this man's account of what happened lining up with what actually happened (with him not getting promotions while people 15 years younger did.) The intention behind everything isn't what's the reasonable cause.



    Really, if you can't discern this sort of thing, don't comment.



    I agree actually. If anyone feels this way, and I mean genuinely feels this way, not just butthurt for getting fired, they should pursue legal action.



    Don't blame me for a poorly written article. That has nothing to do with discerning anything on my part. That's just you trying to pretend you are smarter than you really are by putting someone else down. The problem was not my interpretation. It was the writing. If you can't make a point without putting another poster down .... *rolls eyes*
  • Reply 82 of 180
    sheffsheff Posts: 1,407member
    If true, the manager of the store should be fired. Age discrimination, as with any other kind of employment discrimination however, is very hard to prove.
  • Reply 83 of 180
    adonissmuadonissmu Posts: 1,776member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


    I suspect that his complaint has more to do with his firing that the actual Creative position. Especially if he has trouble getting a latter job. He may have been offered some kind of settlement but figures he can get more money out of a lawsuit. Who knows







    You were there were you, so you don't know if he did you didn't apply. Maybe he mentioned it in passing but didn't follow up with a proper application.







    Assuming Apple is required to tell someone the reasons, how do you know they didn't. You don't. Maybe they did tell him and he didn't like the reasons. Maybe he refused to work weekends or evenings and was told he would have to. Maybe they needed people who knew programs he didn't. Maybe he didn't come off as a people person. He might think those were BS reasons, so in his own head he decided it was because he was old. Rather than th truth which was that the youngsters were more available, better with people etc



    I don't disagree that I would like to hear more information from the store manager and from the guy.
  • Reply 84 of 180
    swiftswift Posts: 436member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Blastdoor View Post


    I certainly cannot comment on the merits of this case -- there's just not enough information.



    But aside from this case, I suspect we are about to see an avalanche of these types of lawsuits throughout all industries over the next few years. The most self-centered, "entitled" generation in the history of the world is now entering old age. The babyboomers are going to take the idea of "grumpy old man" to a whole new level.



    Don't take your issues with your parents or grandparents blind you to real cases of discrimination. By the way, the only way this case MIGHT be true is if the local manager had attitudes like yours.



    I hate discrimination against the young, by the way, though there's precious little evidence of it.



    Intergenerational rivalry is a big long term for stupidity.
  • Reply 85 of 180
    iansilviansilv Posts: 283member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stonefree View Post


    As a young, white, Christian (non practicing) , heterosexual male I've never had the luxury of being able to claim discrimination any time I've been passed up for a job or promotion in favor of someone less qualified.



    Well... pretty good chance you could not get a job at an Apple store anyway. Especially if you don't look like a tatooed emo kid!

  • Reply 86 of 180
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jmmx View Post




    However, I have to say that I have noticed how there are almost no older people working in Apple stores.








    I've seen a couple who were pushing 40. They do exist.
  • Reply 87 of 180
    z3r0z3r0 Posts: 238member
    I would imagine its pretty easy to contact the EEOC (whether he has a reason or not)... Then let's say, oh I don't know, something crazy like trying to claim ownership of the Sun and tax everyone for using its rays!



    Don't believe me just look at this crazy woman!



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post


    I don't believe someone goes through the trouble of contacting the EEOC for no reason at all.



  • Reply 88 of 180
    dualiedualie Posts: 334member
    The guy is asking for a measly $15,000? That's really not a lot. I find it a little hard to believe that he would go to the trouble of filing a complaint for such a small amount if he doesn't honestly believe he was wronged.



    Now if he had asked for, say, $150,000 ? two or three year's wages ? then maybe he could be accused of attempting a cash grab.
  • Reply 89 of 180
    wow, that's shame. people forgot something. nowadays, there are many seniors stopping by apple store. what's important is that they actually buy mac or other expensive apple product right away. they have money, retired, have many times to hang out if they want. I think that they are better customers than damn fucking teenagers, young people (early 20s middle 20s whatever). this is definitely serious issue to deal with. Apple, you are shame. working in retail store is not really proud job if you are educated highly. but whatever it is misunderstood or not, for most young people, it seems very nice job. but don't get me wrong. in my life, I've never worked at retail stores. I am serious. I have more than 14 years of experience in my job. I have been jump to jump from big companies. do you think that you have lots of knowledge while working in apple retail store? well, they have very official or limited knowledge for only purpose for retail business. if somebody has very deep question, they can't handle. anyway, I expect that he will be rewarded, win.
  • Reply 90 of 180
    cmvsmcmvsm Posts: 204member
    Florida is a right to work state. As an employer, you don't need a reason to terminate. So Mr. Katz...good luck with that.
  • Reply 91 of 180
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dualie View Post


    The guy is asking for a measly $15,000? That's really not a lot. I find it a little hard to believe that he would go to the trouble of filing a complaint for such a small amount if he doesn't honestly believe he was wronged.



    Now if he had asked for, say, $150,000 ? two or three year's wages ? then maybe he could be accused of attempting a cash grab.



    You can?t use the amount as evidence of validity. Reasons to ask for a lot is because 1) the lawyers take a hefty amount, 2) you want to make sure a company ?feels? adequately punished so they don?t do it to someone else, and 3) you have a very strong case and you?re just being greedy.



    Reasons to ask for a little are 1) you?re trying to be fair and just despite an injustice done to you, or 2) you really don?t have a case so you think a smaller payout won?t be fought as hard. Note is plenty of precedence of people taking large corporations to small claims courts simply because they likely won?t show since the cost for their lawye?s time is more than the amount being asked for so they win by default.



    Again, there simply isn?t enough data to make an educated guess.
  • Reply 92 of 180
    addisonaddison Posts: 1,185member
    I suspect his manager did not like him and that this has NOTHING to do with Apple policy.



    I think the claim that he did not know he wanted promotion is fatuous and he said that because he cannot, or is unwilling to explain why he didn't promote him.
  • Reply 93 of 180
    I'd like it if I was able to run a business and discriminate against applicants for whatever reason I saw fit. That'd be nice.
  • Reply 94 of 180
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Povilas View Post


    Shame on you, Apple.



    You must have an amazing talent - being able to determine guilt or innocence after hearing only a part of ONE SIDE of a story. Wow.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post


    I actually believe the guy. I don't believe someone goes through the trouble of contacting the EEOC for no reason at all.



    People do it all the time. My company got sued by a guy who had NO evidence. EEOC told him that there was insufficient evidence for them to consider doing anything. He apparently shopped around to every labor attorney in town and none of them would take the case. Yet he STILL sued. We spent about $20 K on defending ourselves before the judge finally looked at our attorney and said "if you have a motion to dismiss on my desk tomorrow, I'll sign it".



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post


    I don't believe the guys manager on any level. It's entirely believable that Apple would do something like this.



    Based on what (other than your irrational hatred of Apple)?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by سیب View Post


    I've seen a couple who were pushing 40. They do exist.



    Oh, that's old.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cmvsm View Post


    Florida is a right to work state. As an employer, you don't need a reason to terminate. So Mr. Katz...good luck with that.



    Actually, the fact that it's a right to work state doesn't preclude a law suit for age discrimination. If the employer gives an indication that you're being fired due to age or if there's sufficient statistical evidence (although this is harder to make a case on), you can still win a discrimination case in a RTW state.
  • Reply 95 of 180
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post


    His opinion of less qualified is just that, HIS opinion.



    Does younger mean MORE qualified? I doubt it. Does a youngster who finds himself in a hiring capacity mean he is more qualified to judge who is more or less qualified? Maybe he would just like to hire all his friends. That seems more likely the case. Apple has their "young, hip" image to project. You rarely see more mature experienced people working in a retail setting on the front lines...
  • Reply 96 of 180
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Slang4Art View Post


    I'd like it if I was able to run a business and discriminate against applicants for whatever reason I saw fit. That'd be nice.



    He wasn't an applicant. He was an employee.
  • Reply 97 of 180
    piotpiot Posts: 1,346member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by سیب View Post


    The usual annoying shit



    سیب



    Translation: Apple
  • Reply 98 of 180
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Xerothecat View Post


    Does younger mean MORE qualified? I doubt it. Does a youngster who finds himself in a hiring capacity mean he is more qualified to judge who is more or less qualified? Maybe he would just like to hire all his friends. That seems more likely the case. Apple has their "young, hip" image to project. You rarely see more mature experienced people working in a retail setting on the front lines...



    1) There are many ways in which younger generations are most knowledgeable and therefore more qualified than many from older generations. The history of personal computers and consumer electronics are rife with examples.



    2) Your assumption that those who were more recently "bequeefed" into this world by their mothers are more likely to act unethically at a job seems unfounded to me. It also implies that Katz manager was one of these youngsters.



    3) You oddly ignore that he was hired by Apple in the first place to work at their retail stores. So are we to assume that Apple had no such imagine during the iPod heyday of early 2006, but by September 2007 when he was let go they put this “young, hip” imagine into action, and that such a decision was mandated from on high at Apple HQ? Note: the release of the iPhone and later the iPad has made Apple more attractive to businesses and older generations who never grew up with computers.
  • Reply 99 of 180
    Quote:

    Katz began working as a Mac specialist at the Apple store at Millennia Mall in Orlando in March 2006



    Sooooo according to the article, he began working in the Mall in 2006...



    Quote:

    Katz was "constructively terminated" from the Orlando store in September 2007



    Sacked in 2007...



    Quote:

    he says he expressed his desire to be promoted to the title of "Creative."



    wanted a promotion...



    Simple math states, an older man had a job in a mall for 1 year, and expected a promotion. The story also states that there were 4 positions opened, that he applied for. Did all of those positions open at the same exact time, a year later? Or were they opened throughout his tenure with store? I'd have to imagine it was the later.



    Sorry, but I wouldn't give promotions out to anyone after having them for only 1 year. That said, if the 4 positions he was going for, open throughout his stint, then I certainly don't give out a promotion in less than a year.



    I'd like to know, the 'younger' associates that got the promotion, how long they worked with the store/company.



    It's simple really. You get a promotion if you are a top performing associate. And even if you were, you have to contend with other people of the same value as you, and pay grade as you, and perhaps they had their position longer than you, and had more experience.



    Meh, this guy might have a valid point. He may have been Steve's long-lost brother/father, but there is many other factors to consider. One of which the valid point above.



    To quote some Star Wars... "Good luck... you're gonna need it"
  • Reply 100 of 180
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,665member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Addison View Post


    I suspect his manager did not like him and that this has NOTHING to do with Apple policy.



    I think the claim that he did not know he wanted promotion is fatuous and he said that because he cannot, or is unwilling to explain why he didn't promote him.



    I suspect the man was a foreign agent and the manager got wind of his true identity. Then, I suspect, the manager attempted to blackmail the employee, but it backfired when the employee used his espionage skills, I bet, to hack into the manager's accounts and I'm guessing he threatened to expose his history of what I reckon was embezzlement.



    It seems to me that at that point they both agreed to a discrimination suit, I figure as a cover for a kind of "mutually assured destruction" scenario. Or so I would estimate based on the facts at hand.
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