You're right, they were released the same day, thus the top model was 132, so my 120MHz stepping is not legal. But at least I was right about them existing
as a total non-brainer..i have noticed that SJ keeps the chip versions at the same level/one up from the Pentiums...sounds good when a G3 beats a P4...
at the moment we are sitting with a G4 that just beats a P4 and a 2xG4 that "destroys" it. i reckon SJ won't wait for the P5 to come out before his G5. bit like the nescape/IE race.
the tech has been there for a long time. SJ is either teasing us or biding his time. very dangerous line SJ is walking. then fact that the Ghz barrier was broken without even a minor disturbance tells me that Apl are gonna pull a very big, hungry, nasty rabbit outta the hat soon. don't want to speculate when tho. my vote is June/July 02
<strong>then fact that the Ghz barrier was broken without even a minor disturbance tells me that Apl are gonna pull a very big, hungry, nasty rabbit outta the hat soon. </strong><hr></blockquote>
<dundee>
*chuckle* That's not a new PowerMac - THIS is a new PowerMac!
</dundee>
[quote]<strong>don't want to speculate when tho. my vote is June/July 02</strong><hr></blockquote>
Word. When is the biggest if of all. The more I think about it, the more I'm thinking summer - in time for soaking up all that back-to-school money, all that Christmas money, all that budget money that has to be spent by the end of the year.
Say, WWDC (that's what, May?), all models shipping within 90 days (end of August? Perfect!)....
This is the most interesting thread I've ever read here - even made me want to post!
One thing that hasn't got a lot of mention Steve's desire to be the best/coolest. Remember that Cringely article a few weeks ago about Jobs vs. Gates? His conclusion is that Jobs already has won in his own head 'cause he has the coolest computer company/ coolest animation company/ coolest jet, etc... Well, I think that makes Capt. Obvious's post all the more plausible - there's no way it sits right with Jobs that its perceived by people that macs are slower than pc's - even assuming that they are not, and all Apple's claims are totally true. Because, it makes Apple not quite the coolest, not quite the best. That's why the G5's are going to have to beat the pants off anything else, hands down, by any conceivable measure.
I know absolutely nothing about the timing of any future Apple announcements, but do we really think that Steve's all that patient of a guy? Especially, as has been pointed out, the problems with the G4 have been known for quite a long time,now.
<strong>I don't think the iMacs will be updated... the low end iMac will only have seen like 3 months of retail exposure... I'd look to either a special event later in the summer or MW expo paris. (hopefully before school starts...)</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm using Steve Jobs' definition of summer, which apparently ends late in September.
[quote]Originally posted by orb24:
<strong>personally, I'm hoping for the monkeys and typewriters.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I hear Apple and Motorola have been secretly working on a system that uses a finite number of monkeys and typewriters.
[quote]Originally posted by M5884:
<strong>Quote by Belle</strong><hr></blockquote>
I didn't post that!
[quote]Originally posted by Eugene:
<strong>Oh, I think we'll be past that speed on desktops by then. The slowest CPU in the Power Mac line is currently 800 MHz. I don't think they want to backtrack from that clock frequency.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Quite possibly. I suggest 800MHz because isn't that the entry point for the G5, and we have no evidence other than hearsay and idle speculation that faster chips will be available.
[quote]<strong>The iMacs will be 800 and 933 MHz in 6 months. The Power Mac G4s will start at 933 MHz and go as high as 1.2 GHz...hopefully. I'm not sure if the iBooks will go G4 yet or not...Apple might want to keep an IBM CPU in its product line. The PowerBooks will be available at 667 and 800 MHz before Summer.</strong><hr></blockquote>
6 months... August. Seems about right. I'm not certain about the G4 iBook either - I can see the argument for using faster G3s.
[quote]<strong>I won't. I got my first new pro desktop in more than 4 years.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Woohoo! What did you get? And I'm going to be checking to see just how much you're complaining this year, mister.
[quote]Originally posted by Aphelion:
<strong>Top ten reasons why Belle is wrong:
10): Intel Alpha
9): Intel Itanium
8): AMD Hammerhead
7): "Fuel" from SGI
6): Maya for OSX
5): PhotoShop for OSX
4): iMac 2 with G4
3): Low key Apollo "roll-out", er release
2): "We're going to kick ass" - Steve Jobs
1): @ MWNY. If not the G5 ... then what?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Nope, not seeing anything here that counters my predictions.
[quote]Originally posted by Ptrash:
<strong>Belle said: I guess we have come farther than we thought. Apple really didn't make a big deal about the apollo at all. This could mean they are not going to stay with it for long.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Nope. I didn't say this either!
There are so many posts here discussing why Steve is keeping G5s quiet, or holding them back, and how Steve obviously has a big plan. Now I understand Apple is a big customer for Motorola as far as microprocessors go, but isn't it really down to Motorola, and more specifically its engineers, when the G5s become available at certain speeds and in sufficient quantities.
Steve can scream and stamp his feet all he likes - if the G5 isn't available yet, it's not available yet.
I really do think that we will be in for a treat at March, MW Tokyo.
Tokyo is just the place too release new technology, and the G5 has been in production for at least two years.
Why does everyone think that the G5 will be so low in the clock rate specs? The G5 is a much better chip than the G4, and much easier to make faster clock rates, so why not give Intel a run for its money and introduce a 2.4Ghz G5? Now that would be stunning, wouldn't it? :eek:
Also, about the G5 PowerMacs, I think they will be very expensive, I'm talking about $2999 for the entry level model, that why Apple could kepp the G4 PowerMacs, as a 'prosumer machine' and the G5 for the pros, and for Pixar.
i would think MW tokyo would be the perfect time, not for the introduction of a new powermac, but for the introduction of a new consumer electronics product. given the japanese love of portable new technology, i could see something interesting being introduced.
the powermac i'm betting will come at MWNY. that would be a much more logical place for an introduction...on home turf where lots of people can stop by the booth and put their hands on one.
<strong>Many individuals are hoping for a G5 surprise at MWT or MWNY. I just don't see it happening. I still believe we will receive an Apollo Power Mac bump at MWNY, hopefully bringing us to 1.3GHz.
I don?t have confidence in a G5 introduction pre-MWSF; hopefully the extra time Apple has will allow for greater MHz attainment. I don't know about anyone else, but a G5 that tops out at 1.6GHz is not a panacea, since by MWNY Intel maybe pushing 2.4GHz or beyond. I understand the GHz Myth, so I don't need any instruction on the subject. However, I want the G5s introduction to not be tainted in anyway, and that means, at least to me, that the line should be damn close to GHz parity, if not GHz dominance.</strong><hr></blockquote>
So, if I say something about the MHz Myth, you won't consider it instruction, will you?
It's just that I think they've been touting the Myth for a reason - that is, a reason beyond the G4 lagging the P4 in mHz
Basically, I anticipate G5 making the whole megaHertz issue null & void. I understand the desire to kick their butts back to Redmond (or wherever), beating them fair and square, cyle for cycle. Really I do! But y'know what I'd also like?
I'd like to see a 500mHz G5 wipe the floor w/ the best they've got. Not just Photoshop - everything. Wouldn't you love to see the traditional Photoshop bake-off traded in for a [i]Maya[i/] bake-off?)
Yeah, I'd like that! Either way, the Megahertz Myth will be retired.
Not saying anything like that's gonna happen - still, my suspicion is that, where G5 & megaHertz is concerned, everything we know is wrong. I further suspect that clock cycles be replaced in our mythology by gigaflops.
(We need a serviceable abbreviation for gigaflops; one that doesn't suggest the number of times we screw up per day. 'GF' seems pretty ho-hum obvious. 15 gfs? Fifteen girlfriends? That's it! We're looking at the possibility of opening up a 'girlfriend gap' between us & them...with us having the bulk of the girlfriends, doncha'know?)
There are three possible ways the G5 is being made. 1.By motorola, 2.By apple, 3. By IBM. I am guessing it has been designed by apple and will be fabricated by IBM or Motorola.
It could be apple is going to dump the G4 within the next year and move al their comps to the G5. Since the G4 can not scale much higher in Mhz than 1.4Ghz apple really doesn't have a choice but to drop it soon. The PowerMac lines will simple be faster than the consumer machines.
This could also mean that apple is dumping motorola all together in favor of IBM. I think IBM would be a better company for apple to invest in that Mot any way.
Many of you are judging what will happen from what has happened in the past. This is a good way to go about planning wars and such, but Computers change a lot over time. Just because Apple ran into some trouble with the G4 does not mean they are going to stay behind. Just because Motorola can't do anything right doesn't mean we will not see a G5 for years. You see where I'm going with this. If Steve wants another 5% market share he is going to need comps that run at the same Mhz as the PCs. Regardless of how much Mhz really matters this is what the average consumer looks at.
<strong>Motorola announced V'ger and 15 months later, it was in a Powermac.
Motorola announced Apollo in October of 2000, and 15 months later, it was in a Powermac.
Motorola announced the 85xx series in October of 2001, and 15 months later.....
Sense a pattern?
MWSF '03 == G5.
Jet</strong><hr></blockquote>
2002 is the Yr of the iMac
I totally agree with this projection because:-
No major hardware will be released to inhibit the iMacs dominance in the consumer space.
This year will bring only revisions to the current line of Power Macs. ie
speed bump by MWNY posibly the whole line being in Dual Processor forms. Anything will be offered but no G5, it too risky for apple to lose any momentium in the consumer line.
Note in 1998 apples PC market share was 2% and near death, then the iMac came out and we have the whole worlds eyes on us. Now we are over the 5% because of the iMac and in 1-2yrs time we should be over 10% market share with the new iMac. Love or hate it, the imac line brings in new customers for apple.
[quote]By Big Mac: B]Many individuals are hoping for a G5 surprise at MWT or MWNY. I just don't see it happening. I still believe we will receive an Apollo Power Mac bump at MWNY, hopefully bringing us to 1.3GHz[/B] <hr></blockquote>
What are the main reasons for some posters not believing the G5 is coming this year? Is it because it sounds too good to be true? (I just use you as an example Big Mac, nothing personal)
I know Apple have disapointed us in the past, but cast your mind back a few years when Apple were well ahead of the pack.
Apple has a history of innovation and soon it will regain that certain something that makes Mac owners proud of their choice and not defensive.
I personaly think this will be Apple's year, with consumer devices like the iPod, iMac and iBook growing market share, and the pro G5 tower wiping out the competition in the professional arena.
There are so many posts here discussing why Steve is keeping G5s quiet, or holding them back, and how Steve obviously has a big plan. Now I understand Apple is a big customer for Motorola as far as microprocessors go, but isn't it really down to Motorola, and more specifically its engineers, when the G5s become available at certain speeds and in sufficient quantities.
Steve can scream and stamp his feet all he likes - if the G5 isn't available yet, it's not available yet.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Motorola is not the one that will decide when to release the G5. Steve Jobs is the only person who will give the go on that. I believe that it is ready and the timing of it's release in a marketing sense is the only thing that is holding it back. The acceptance of the dual GHz powermac by posters on this board (see the 6 pages of acclaim by KidRed) will make MWNY soon enough.
ahem - why is it that i have a 350Mhz G4 on my desk next to a 400Mhz G4??? therefor 185% increase...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Krassy, you don't understand what G-News and I have been doing. We used the max available clockspeed for each update. When your 350 MHz G4 came out, 450 was the fastest...500 if you don't count the errata they discovered.
Comments
G-News
at the moment we are sitting with a G4 that just beats a P4 and a 2xG4 that "destroys" it. i reckon SJ won't wait for the P5 to come out before his G5. bit like the nescape/IE race.
the tech has been there for a long time. SJ is either teasing us or biding his time. very dangerous line SJ is walking. then fact that the Ghz barrier was broken without even a minor disturbance tells me that Apl are gonna pull a very big, hungry, nasty rabbit outta the hat soon. don't want to speculate when tho. my vote is June/July 02
<strong>then fact that the Ghz barrier was broken without even a minor disturbance tells me that Apl are gonna pull a very big, hungry, nasty rabbit outta the hat soon. </strong><hr></blockquote>
<dundee>
*chuckle* That's not a new PowerMac - THIS is a new PowerMac!
</dundee>
[quote]<strong>don't want to speculate when tho. my vote is June/July 02</strong><hr></blockquote>
Word. When is the biggest if of all. The more I think about it, the more I'm thinking summer - in time for soaking up all that back-to-school money, all that Christmas money, all that budget money that has to be spent by the end of the year.
Say, WWDC (that's what, May?), all models shipping within 90 days (end of August? Perfect!)....
One thing that hasn't got a lot of mention Steve's desire to be the best/coolest. Remember that Cringely article a few weeks ago about Jobs vs. Gates? His conclusion is that Jobs already has won in his own head 'cause he has the coolest computer company/ coolest animation company/ coolest jet, etc... Well, I think that makes Capt. Obvious's post all the more plausible - there's no way it sits right with Jobs that its perceived by people that macs are slower than pc's - even assuming that they are not, and all Apple's claims are totally true. Because, it makes Apple not quite the coolest, not quite the best. That's why the G5's are going to have to beat the pants off anything else, hands down, by any conceivable measure.
I know absolutely nothing about the timing of any future Apple announcements, but do we really think that Steve's all that patient of a guy? Especially, as has been pointed out, the problems with the G4 have been known for quite a long time,now.
<strong>I don't think the iMacs will be updated... the low end iMac will only have seen like 3 months of retail exposure... I'd look to either a special event later in the summer or MW expo paris. (hopefully before school starts...)</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm using Steve Jobs' definition of summer, which apparently ends late in September.
[quote]Originally posted by orb24:
<strong>personally, I'm hoping for the monkeys and typewriters.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I hear Apple and Motorola have been secretly working on a system that uses a finite number of monkeys and typewriters.
[quote]Originally posted by M5884:
<strong>Quote by Belle</strong><hr></blockquote>
I didn't post that!
[quote]Originally posted by Eugene:
<strong>Oh, I think we'll be past that speed on desktops by then. The slowest CPU in the Power Mac line is currently 800 MHz. I don't think they want to backtrack from that clock frequency.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Quite possibly. I suggest 800MHz because isn't that the entry point for the G5, and we have no evidence other than hearsay and idle speculation that faster chips will be available.
[quote]<strong>The iMacs will be 800 and 933 MHz in 6 months. The Power Mac G4s will start at 933 MHz and go as high as 1.2 GHz...hopefully. I'm not sure if the iBooks will go G4 yet or not...Apple might want to keep an IBM CPU in its product line. The PowerBooks will be available at 667 and 800 MHz before Summer.</strong><hr></blockquote>
6 months... August. Seems about right. I'm not certain about the G4 iBook either - I can see the argument for using faster G3s.
[quote]<strong>I won't. I got my first new pro desktop in more than 4 years.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Woohoo! What did you get? And I'm going to be checking to see just how much you're complaining this year, mister.
[quote]Originally posted by Aphelion:
<strong>Top ten reasons why Belle is wrong:
10): Intel Alpha
9): Intel Itanium
8): AMD Hammerhead
7): "Fuel" from SGI
6): Maya for OSX
5): PhotoShop for OSX
4): iMac 2 with G4
3): Low key Apollo "roll-out", er release
2): "We're going to kick ass" - Steve Jobs
1): @ MWNY. If not the G5 ... then what?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Nope, not seeing anything here that counters my predictions.
[quote]Originally posted by Ptrash:
<strong>Belle said: I guess we have come farther than we thought. Apple really didn't make a big deal about the apollo at all. This could mean they are not going to stay with it for long.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Nope. I didn't say this either!
There are so many posts here discussing why Steve is keeping G5s quiet, or holding them back, and how Steve obviously has a big plan. Now I understand Apple is a big customer for Motorola as far as microprocessors go, but isn't it really down to Motorola, and more specifically its engineers, when the G5s become available at certain speeds and in sufficient quantities.
Steve can scream and stamp his feet all he likes - if the G5 isn't available yet, it's not available yet.
Tokyo is just the place too release new technology, and the G5 has been in production for at least two years.
Why does everyone think that the G5 will be so low in the clock rate specs? The G5 is a much better chip than the G4, and much easier to make faster clock rates, so why not give Intel a run for its money and introduce a 2.4Ghz G5? Now that would be stunning, wouldn't it? :eek:
Also, about the G5 PowerMacs, I think they will be very expensive, I'm talking about $2999 for the entry level model, that why Apple could kepp the G4 PowerMacs, as a 'prosumer machine' and the G5 for the pros, and for Pixar.
<strong>
I seem to remember the 604's debut at 132 MHz, for Apple anyway. The first one was the 9500/132, wasn't it?
Anyway:
132-->350 = ~165% increase
266-->450 = ~69% increase
450-->1000 = ~122% increase
Anyway, I'd like to think of the processors differently though.
The 745x/744x series is remarkably different from the 7400/7410.
745x/744x = 733-->1000
7410/7400 = 450-->533
750 = 266-->500
750cx = 466-->700
604/604e = 132-->350
et cetera. You can manipulate the data whichever way you want. The G4 still has legs, IMHO.
[ 01-30-2002: Message edited by: Eugene ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
ahem - why is it that i have a 350Mhz G4 on my desk next to a 400Mhz G4??? therefor 185% increase...
the powermac i'm betting will come at MWNY. that would be a much more logical place for an introduction...on home turf where lots of people can stop by the booth and put their hands on one.
Of all the 5 possibilities for a G5 release date
(MWTY, MWNY, MWSF03, MWTY03, MWNY03), MW Tokyo 2002 is by far the least likely.
I'd love to see it happen too, but it isn't going to. MWTY is PowerBook time. say 800MHz G4 Apollo.
G-News
<strong>Many individuals are hoping for a G5 surprise at MWT or MWNY. I just don't see it happening. I still believe we will receive an Apollo Power Mac bump at MWNY, hopefully bringing us to 1.3GHz.
I don?t have confidence in a G5 introduction pre-MWSF; hopefully the extra time Apple has will allow for greater MHz attainment. I don't know about anyone else, but a G5 that tops out at 1.6GHz is not a panacea, since by MWNY Intel maybe pushing 2.4GHz or beyond. I understand the GHz Myth, so I don't need any instruction on the subject. However, I want the G5s introduction to not be tainted in anyway, and that means, at least to me, that the line should be damn close to GHz parity, if not GHz dominance.</strong><hr></blockquote>
So, if I say something about the MHz Myth, you won't consider it instruction, will you?
It's just that I think they've been touting the Myth for a reason - that is, a reason beyond the G4 lagging the P4 in mHz
Basically, I anticipate G5 making the whole megaHertz issue null & void. I understand the desire to kick their butts back to Redmond (or wherever), beating them fair and square, cyle for cycle. Really I do! But y'know what I'd also like?
I'd like to see a 500mHz G5 wipe the floor w/ the best they've got. Not just Photoshop - everything. Wouldn't you love to see the traditional Photoshop bake-off traded in for a [i]Maya[i/] bake-off?)
Yeah, I'd like that! Either way, the Megahertz Myth will be retired.
Not saying anything like that's gonna happen - still, my suspicion is that, where G5 & megaHertz is concerned, everything we know is wrong. I further suspect that clock cycles be replaced in our mythology by gigaflops.
(We need a serviceable abbreviation for gigaflops; one that doesn't suggest the number of times we screw up per day. 'GF' seems pretty ho-hum obvious. 15 gfs? Fifteen girlfriends? That's it! We're looking at the possibility of opening up a 'girlfriend gap' between us & them...with us having the bulk of the girlfriends, doncha'know?)
[ 01-31-2002: Message edited by: M5884 ]</p>
It could be apple is going to dump the G4 within the next year and move al their comps to the G5. Since the G4 can not scale much higher in Mhz than 1.4Ghz apple really doesn't have a choice but to drop it soon. The PowerMac lines will simple be faster than the consumer machines.
This could also mean that apple is dumping motorola all together in favor of IBM. I think IBM would be a better company for apple to invest in that Mot any way.
Many of you are judging what will happen from what has happened in the past. This is a good way to go about planning wars and such, but Computers change a lot over time. Just because Apple ran into some trouble with the G4 does not mean they are going to stay behind. Just because Motorola can't do anything right doesn't mean we will not see a G5 for years. You see where I'm going with this. If Steve wants another 5% market share he is going to need comps that run at the same Mhz as the PCs. Regardless of how much Mhz really matters this is what the average consumer looks at.
Bigger # faster is all they know.
<strong>Motorola announced V'ger and 15 months later, it was in a Powermac.
Motorola announced Apollo in October of 2000, and 15 months later, it was in a Powermac.
Motorola announced the 85xx series in October of 2001, and 15 months later.....
Sense a pattern?
MWSF '03 == G5.
Jet</strong><hr></blockquote>
2002 is the Yr of the iMac
I totally agree with this projection because:-
No major hardware will be released to inhibit the iMacs dominance in the consumer space.
This year will bring only revisions to the current line of Power Macs. ie
speed bump by MWNY posibly the whole line being in Dual Processor forms. Anything will be offered but no G5, it too risky for apple to lose any momentium in the consumer line.
Note in 1998 apples PC market share was 2% and near death, then the iMac came out and we have the whole worlds eyes on us. Now we are over the 5% because of the iMac and in 1-2yrs time we should be over 10% market share with the new iMac. Love or hate it, the imac line brings in new customers for apple.
iMac all the Way,
Would you like an iPod with that iMac Madam?
or do you prefer iXXXXX?
What are the main reasons for some posters not believing the G5 is coming this year? Is it because it sounds too good to be true? (I just use you as an example Big Mac, nothing personal)
I know Apple have disapointed us in the past, but cast your mind back a few years when Apple were well ahead of the pack.
WIMP, colour graphics, sound, networking, postscript, laser printers, DTP, CD-ROM, multiple screens...
Apple has a history of innovation and soon it will regain that certain something that makes Mac owners proud of their choice and not defensive.
I personaly think this will be Apple's year, with consumer devices like the iPod, iMac and iBook growing market share, and the pro G5 tower wiping out the competition in the professional arena.
<strong>
There are so many posts here discussing why Steve is keeping G5s quiet, or holding them back, and how Steve obviously has a big plan. Now I understand Apple is a big customer for Motorola as far as microprocessors go, but isn't it really down to Motorola, and more specifically its engineers, when the G5s become available at certain speeds and in sufficient quantities.
Steve can scream and stamp his feet all he likes - if the G5 isn't available yet, it's not available yet.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Motorola is not the one that will decide when to release the G5. Steve Jobs is the only person who will give the go on that. I believe that it is ready and the timing of it's release in a marketing sense is the only thing that is holding it back. The acceptance of the dual GHz powermac by posters on this board (see the 6 pages of acclaim by KidRed) will make MWNY soon enough.
<strong>
ahem - why is it that i have a 350Mhz G4 on my desk next to a 400Mhz G4??? therefor 185% increase...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Krassy, you don't understand what G-News and I have been doing. We used the max available clockspeed for each update. When your 350 MHz G4 came out, 450 was the fastest...500 if you don't count the errata they discovered.
Can't have everything
G-News