Apparently they shift around. But anyway, if they manage 8 hours with that battery and that small screen, I'm less than impressed.
Jobs may want the former, but most reviews said almost 11 hours playing videos constantly. What was that about the battery sucking larger screen?
We can also get 60 hours of music. That's with the screen off. I'd like to see what this gets in a similar situation. The iPad also has at least 300 hours of standby. That's a lot for a device like this, and is an excellent indicator of power management.
We'll see how the Playbook does on these fronts.
Playing videos and audios will be easy to do --- because they are highly optimized by the silicon manufacturers. OMAP4 is rated 120 hours of battery life for playing audio.
They turned off power management to take it to CES after rampant rumours about the PlayBook having poor battery just so they can have its picture taken denoting 4 hours of use remaining with 93% of the battery remaining? I?m not buying that for a second.
They are also demoing the playbook in all singing all dancing mode. Not really a real life example to play multiple videos in the background to judge battery life.
Sounds like those Canadians are using the day length above the Arctic Circle right now. \
What?s completely ridiculous for Samab to defend is that they have done absolutely no power management ? something he profusely stated was built into the core of QNX ? yet somehow know what battery life they can get out of this device.
Also questionable is the lack of what 8 hours refers to. Video, web browsing over WiFi, reading email, etc. Apple lists very specific things and either matches or exceeds those times, and now will be using even more stringent tests.
Seems to me the PlayBook is the new Palm Pre. it?s just broken promise and poor execution over and over.
Yeah, he gave a link.
I would imagine, to be fair, that 8 hours corresponds to a working day, as this is for business, and in addition, it will rarely be used continuously. So 8 hours, if it gets that, could last for, say a 12 hour day, or more.
As I've said, from having extensive experience in designing electronics, it's impossible to start working on power management AFTER the design is complete, as this seems to be. Yes, they tweak it near the end, but most of the work must have been done by now. The tweaking comes after extensive field testing and reporting. You can add 10 to 15% to your battery life if you find out how people use the thing. Maybe even a bit more. But more than about 20% would be extremely rare at this late stage.
Earlier, you could replace some components that aren't up to snuff if you find they're sucking more than expected, and go back and do a redesign, but it seems way too late for that. Now, it's all up to the software.
I'm also curious as to what their rating is derived from. How bright is the screen? What kind of files are running in the background? Apple runs a number of things while the video is running, which is why the battery test pretty much always is better than their specs.
The problems are they are late --- in a million things. This is a device that was never shown in the portrait mode, it was never shown with a working accelerometer...
Look, there are a number of problems. That doesn't have anything to do with this issue.
They turned off power management to take it to CES after rampant rumours about the PlayBook having poor battery just so they can have its picture taken denoting 4 hours of use remaining with 93% of the battery remaining? I?m not buying that for a second.
I believe the "hasn't been tuned or optimized". There would be no reason to turn it off. It could damage the circuits.
Playing videos and audios will be easy to do --- because they are highly optimized by the silicon manufacturers. OMAP4 is rated 120 hours of battery life for playing audio.
But they're not using OMAP4, they're using an entire tablet to play it. That includes amplifiers, and many other circuits. I'm sure that Apple's cpu can play music for a longer time too.
But they're not using OMAP4, they're using an entire tablet to play it. That includes amplifiers, and many other circuits. I'm sure that Apple's cpu can play music for a longer time too.
We are also talking about QNX being owned by Harman Kardon for 5 years. They should know a couple of things about audio.
Of course it does. The whole Playbook is half finished --- it doesn't mean that they are having "issues", it just mean that they aren't done yet.
When you're several months behind, you're having issues. RIM is arguing that it's not really delayed. But originally, thy said that they were hoping for a delivery earlier.
It doesn't matter what we say. We'll see. If it comes out in March, that's not TOO bad. If everything is ok then, and they get their 8 hours, well, it's not great, but it's better than the Galaxy Tab at 6.
We are also talking about QNX being owned by Harman Kardon for 5 years. They should know a couple of things about audio.
You know, you're mixing two things. The OS and the hardware are two different things. What HK knows, and I know a lot of people there, is not relevant.
The hardware determines the power required and used, the OS allows the power management which RIM is writing, to function. Let's get it straight at least.
You know, you're mixing two things. The OS and the hardware are two different things. What HK knows, and I know a lot of people there, is not relevant.
The hardware determines the power required and used, the OS allows the power management which RIM is writing, to function. Let's get it straight at least.
QNX has always been a small company --- that does consulting for their customers. They have also made experimental stuff --- just to attract potential customers. Like how QNX ported their OS to a compaq ipaq nearly a decade ago. Like how QNX is currently advertising to hire engineers to work on point and shoot camera so that they can expand their businesses there.
There is quite a lot of institutional knowledge from their consulting side of their business.
This isn't like Microsoft --- they sell you the OS and that's it.
When you're several months behind, you're having issues. RIM is arguing that it's not really delayed. But originally, thy said that they were hoping for a delivery earlier.
It doesn't matter what we say. We'll see. If it comes out in March, that's not TOO bad. If everything is ok then, and they get their 8 hours, well, it's not great, but it's better than the Galaxy Tab at 6.
They are not several months behind as they are still saying that it would launch in Q1.
Buying a OS company and then launching an actual device less than 12 months later --- that's a very aggressive timeline. Missing it doesn't mean they are having issues, it means that the original timeline may be too optimistic.
QNX has always been a small company --- that does consulting for their customers. They have also made experimental stuff --- just to attract potential customers. Like how QNX ported their OS to a compaq ipaq nearly a decade ago. Like how QNX is currently advertising to hire engineers to work on point and shoot camera so that they can expand their businesses there.
There is quite a lot of institutional knowledge from their consulting side of their business.
This isn't like Microsoft --- they sell you the OS and that's it.
And what does that have to do with this? Every device needs to have power management done for it. RIM still has to do it.
They are not several months behind as they are still saying that it would launch in Q1.
Buying a OS company and then launching an actual device less than 12 months later --- that's a very aggressive timeline. Missing it doesn't mean they are having issues, it means that the original timeline may be too optimistic.
Look, samab, we often disagree, but I don't think you aren't logical. So think about it. It's half way through January. If they release the Playbook to sale on the last day of March, they've got 2.5 months to get from where they are to that point.
What do they have to do? Well, they have to get it working first. I do hope they get this thing out there, so I hope that all their problems are software. If not, it's good night. They are already on a tight schedule. If they send this to manufacturing, and as far as I know, they haven't, then it will be hoped that there isn't some gotcha found by production, and coming from experience, I can say that we can only hope for that, because there often is.
So, every part is ordered and on its way, or already there. They have to do the final tuning to start pre production trials. That takes at least a week, if things go well. If not... Then they have to work on some production testing. That takes another week if ok. So if everything is great, we're now into February. slow ramp up with 100% testing for the first couple hundred devices at least. Then a bit faster, with less testing of individual units. All in all this takes a week to two weeks. Then slow real production starts. They will do 1,000 a day. Then 2,000 a day. then, if they can do that many, they will work to about 5,000, which MAY be close to final production levels, or it may be higher.
If they have a first run of 100,000, which sounds reasonable for this, it could take several weeks to produce for this first run. Remember that RIM won't be producing the numbers that Apple is, and so their production lines aren't as capable. Then it's all packed and ready to go.
Again, if everything is OK, and they don't decide to air ship, it's 14 days to get here (California). If they spend to air ship, as Apple does when they're tight for supply, it will take 3. This gives them a couple of weeks to get distribution and to retail if it goes there.
But if the tablet isn't yet ready, how long will it take? Another week? Another month? Another two months? That's plus the times I detailed. And I do know this. I'm not making it up.
Comments
Apparently they shift around. But anyway, if they manage 8 hours with that battery and that small screen, I'm less than impressed.
Jobs may want the former, but most reviews said almost 11 hours playing videos constantly. What was that about the battery sucking larger screen?
We can also get 60 hours of music. That's with the screen off. I'd like to see what this gets in a similar situation. The iPad also has at least 300 hours of standby. That's a lot for a device like this, and is an excellent indicator of power management.
We'll see how the Playbook does on these fronts.
Playing videos and audios will be easy to do --- because they are highly optimized by the silicon manufacturers. OMAP4 is rated 120 hours of battery life for playing audio.
OMAP4 is rated 120 hours of battery life for playing audio.
WTF! What kind of statement is that? A processor can be rated for battery life?
Your on my ignore list so I do risk an infraction cussing you out.
They turned off power management to take it to CES after rampant rumours about the PlayBook having poor battery just so they can have its picture taken denoting 4 hours of use remaining with 93% of the battery remaining? I?m not buying that for a second.
They are also demoing the playbook in all singing all dancing mode. Not really a real life example to play multiple videos in the background to judge battery life.
December 17, 2010: ?Way ahead? of competition
December 30th, 2010: ?Comparable" battery life to competition
January 5, 2011: ?Target? of 8 hours battery life
January 13, 2011: ?Goal" of 8 hours, what they consider a full day of use
Sounds like those Canadians are using the day length above the Arctic Circle right now.
What?s completely ridiculous for Samab to defend is that they have done absolutely no power management ? something he profusely stated was built into the core of QNX ? yet somehow know what battery life they can get out of this device.
Also questionable is the lack of what 8 hours refers to. Video, web browsing over WiFi, reading email, etc. Apple lists very specific things and either matches or exceeds those times, and now will be using even more stringent tests.
Seems to me the PlayBook is the new Palm Pre. it?s just broken promise and poor execution over and over.
Yeah, he gave a link.
I would imagine, to be fair, that 8 hours corresponds to a working day, as this is for business, and in addition, it will rarely be used continuously. So 8 hours, if it gets that, could last for, say a 12 hour day, or more.
As I've said, from having extensive experience in designing electronics, it's impossible to start working on power management AFTER the design is complete, as this seems to be. Yes, they tweak it near the end, but most of the work must have been done by now. The tweaking comes after extensive field testing and reporting. You can add 10 to 15% to your battery life if you find out how people use the thing. Maybe even a bit more. But more than about 20% would be extremely rare at this late stage.
Earlier, you could replace some components that aren't up to snuff if you find they're sucking more than expected, and go back and do a redesign, but it seems way too late for that. Now, it's all up to the software.
I'm also curious as to what their rating is derived from. How bright is the screen? What kind of files are running in the background? Apple runs a number of things while the video is running, which is why the battery test pretty much always is better than their specs.
WTF! What kind of statement is that? A processor can be rated for battery life?
Your on my ignore list so I do risk an infraction cussing you out.
It said it in the TI website --- 120 hours audio.
http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtb...er+OT+omap4440
The problems are they are late --- in a million things. This is a device that was never shown in the portrait mode, it was never shown with a working accelerometer...
Look, there are a number of problems. That doesn't have anything to do with this issue.
December 17, 2010: ”Way ahead” of competition
Nowhere did he say it was way ahead in battery life --- he was talking about performance (i.e. multitasking).
They have been saying 8 hours of battery life since October.
http://www.phonenews.com/blackberry-...ry-life-13247/
from January 5th article?
They turned off power management to take it to CES after rampant rumours about the PlayBook having poor battery just so they can have its picture taken denoting 4 hours of use remaining with 93% of the battery remaining? I?m not buying that for a second.
I believe the "hasn't been tuned or optimized". There would be no reason to turn it off. It could damage the circuits.
Playing videos and audios will be easy to do --- because they are highly optimized by the silicon manufacturers. OMAP4 is rated 120 hours of battery life for playing audio.
But they're not using OMAP4, they're using an entire tablet to play it. That includes amplifiers, and many other circuits. I'm sure that Apple's cpu can play music for a longer time too.
Look, there are a number of problems. That doesn't have anything to do with this issue.
Of course it does. The whole Playbook is half finished --- it doesn't mean that they are having "issues", it just mean that they aren't done yet.
But they're not using OMAP4, they're using an entire tablet to play it. That includes amplifiers, and many other circuits. I'm sure that Apple's cpu can play music for a longer time too.
We are also talking about QNX being owned by Harman Kardon for 5 years. They should know a couple of things about audio.
Of course it does. The whole Playbook is half finished --- it doesn't mean that they are having "issues", it just mean that they aren't done yet.
When you're several months behind, you're having issues. RIM is arguing that it's not really delayed. But originally, thy said that they were hoping for a delivery earlier.
It doesn't matter what we say. We'll see. If it comes out in March, that's not TOO bad. If everything is ok then, and they get their 8 hours, well, it's not great, but it's better than the Galaxy Tab at 6.
We are also talking about QNX being owned by Harman Kardon for 5 years. They should know a couple of things about audio.
You know, you're mixing two things. The OS and the hardware are two different things. What HK knows, and I know a lot of people there, is not relevant.
The hardware determines the power required and used, the OS allows the power management which RIM is writing, to function. Let's get it straight at least.
You know, you're mixing two things. The OS and the hardware are two different things. What HK knows, and I know a lot of people there, is not relevant.
The hardware determines the power required and used, the OS allows the power management which RIM is writing, to function. Let's get it straight at least.
QNX has always been a small company --- that does consulting for their customers. They have also made experimental stuff --- just to attract potential customers. Like how QNX ported their OS to a compaq ipaq nearly a decade ago. Like how QNX is currently advertising to hire engineers to work on point and shoot camera so that they can expand their businesses there.
There is quite a lot of institutional knowledge from their consulting side of their business.
This isn't like Microsoft --- they sell you the OS and that's it.
When you're several months behind, you're having issues. RIM is arguing that it's not really delayed. But originally, thy said that they were hoping for a delivery earlier.
It doesn't matter what we say. We'll see. If it comes out in March, that's not TOO bad. If everything is ok then, and they get their 8 hours, well, it's not great, but it's better than the Galaxy Tab at 6.
They are not several months behind as they are still saying that it would launch in Q1.
Buying a OS company and then launching an actual device less than 12 months later --- that's a very aggressive timeline. Missing it doesn't mean they are having issues, it means that the original timeline may be too optimistic.
QNX has always been a small company --- that does consulting for their customers. They have also made experimental stuff --- just to attract potential customers. Like how QNX ported their OS to a compaq ipaq nearly a decade ago. Like how QNX is currently advertising to hire engineers to work on point and shoot camera so that they can expand their businesses there.
There is quite a lot of institutional knowledge from their consulting side of their business.
This isn't like Microsoft --- they sell you the OS and that's it.
And what does that have to do with this? Every device needs to have power management done for it. RIM still has to do it.
They are not several months behind as they are still saying that it would launch in Q1.
Buying a OS company and then launching an actual device less than 12 months later --- that's a very aggressive timeline. Missing it doesn't mean they are having issues, it means that the original timeline may be too optimistic.
Look, samab, we often disagree, but I don't think you aren't logical. So think about it. It's half way through January. If they release the Playbook to sale on the last day of March, they've got 2.5 months to get from where they are to that point.
What do they have to do? Well, they have to get it working first. I do hope they get this thing out there, so I hope that all their problems are software. If not, it's good night. They are already on a tight schedule. If they send this to manufacturing, and as far as I know, they haven't, then it will be hoped that there isn't some gotcha found by production, and coming from experience, I can say that we can only hope for that, because there often is.
So, every part is ordered and on its way, or already there. They have to do the final tuning to start pre production trials. That takes at least a week, if things go well. If not... Then they have to work on some production testing. That takes another week if ok. So if everything is great, we're now into February. slow ramp up with 100% testing for the first couple hundred devices at least. Then a bit faster, with less testing of individual units. All in all this takes a week to two weeks. Then slow real production starts. They will do 1,000 a day. Then 2,000 a day. then, if they can do that many, they will work to about 5,000, which MAY be close to final production levels, or it may be higher.
If they have a first run of 100,000, which sounds reasonable for this, it could take several weeks to produce for this first run. Remember that RIM won't be producing the numbers that Apple is, and so their production lines aren't as capable. Then it's all packed and ready to go.
Again, if everything is OK, and they don't decide to air ship, it's 14 days to get here (California). If they spend to air ship, as Apple does when they're tight for supply, it will take 3. This gives them a couple of weeks to get distribution and to retail if it goes there.
But if the tablet isn't yet ready, how long will it take? Another week? Another month? Another two months? That's plus the times I detailed. And I do know this. I'm not making it up.
I'm nostalgic for the days when putting sealed batteries in their devices was evidence of Apple's bizarre, self defeating control freakery.
Now that it's become common place (because of the actual benefits in possible battery size) we never seem to hear a word about it. Huh.
You know, I hadn't realized till now, looking at some of the linked articles, that the Playbook has a sealed battery.
I'm nostalgic for the days when putting sealed batteries in their devices was evidence of Apple's bizarre, self defeating control freakery.
Now that it's become common place (because of the actual benefits in possible battery size) we never seem to hear a word about it. Huh.
And the irony that this is one device that would benefit from having multiple, swappable batteries.