This made me chuckle ... it's soooo freakin' true! I stayed in a 5 star hotel once (just once) that I payed a pretty penny for, it didn't come with WiFi.
But you can bet the Motel 6 down the way had fast WiFi that was not extra, you know how I know ... stayed at it to a few months later. The towel wasn't as good, but the porn was AWESOME!
It's true with television, too. The price of the hotel is inversely proportional to the amount of internet/television you get.
Five Star hotel - will charge $10-15/day for wifi and only give you maybe 10 channels on the television.
Motel 6 - free wifi and you'll have the entire spectrum of channels on the television.
This made me chuckle ... it's soooo freakin' true! I stayed in a 5 star hotel once (just once) that I payed a pretty penny for, it didn't come with WiFi.
But you can bet the Motel 6 down the way had fast WiFi that was not extra, you know how I know ... stayed at it to a few months later. The towel wasn't as good, but the porn was AWESOME!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mobycat
It's true with television, too. The price of the hotel is inversely proportional to the amount of internet/television you get.
Five Star hotel - will charge $10-15/day for wifi and only give you maybe 10 channels on the television.
Motel 6 - free wifi and you'll have the entire spectrum of channels on the television.
Most Motel 6?s I?ve been to charge $2.99 for a 24 hour period. I find that rate to be high but acceptable since their no frills, economy lodging is designed to be inexpensive.
The most I?ve seen ? Las Vegas Marriott, January 2010 ? was $20 per day. Note, this for a calendar day, so if you check in at 6pm that day that $20 will take you up to midnight. How weak is that?
7: Why Apple.....why VZW...and why now? Well, honestly, Apple has lost some sales to the Android OS. You can deny it all you want, however, it is true. While Apple may be leading in the OS market now, they wont be in the future if they stay with just 1 US carrier. Up to a year ago, Apple could call all the shots they wanted and get away with it. VZW on the other hand, has done well and still grew its customer base without the iPhone (Apple has done just fine on its own, too). This is due to aquisitions and crazy BOGO offers on Androids and Blackberries.
The current trend of going to VZW and supposedly giving in to some VZW demands is the Android OS fault. Given enough time, Android OS will win. It is inevitable. It is a free OS, distributed across multple carriers and multiple manufacturers. This means the cost can be subsidized more greatly and BOGO free promos can be tossed out left and right to get new customers on board. You can say the Android is winning solely based on all these crazy BOGO offers and multiple manufacturers and claim because of this, you are not comparing Apples to Apples and defend Apple all you want, but, the fact remains, they are still gaining enormous ground. In this case, the ends is justified through the means.
You can scream fragmented OS all you want regarding Android. As I have 2 friends who build apps for Android, their input is this: The core of the OS is still the same no matter what GUI is placed on the phone. Anytime they have had a customer complain their app did not work on version 2.2 with one model ,but, it works on their friends with 2.2 on a different model, is due to the user having the issues has rooted and modded their phone ( dumping a piece of software that took something else with it ) or has had some sort of homebrew stuff ( non approved app ) going on.
Of course, this is just your opinion as someone with loyalty to the company you work for. It isn't necessarily the truth. There have been enough articles with good info as to why Verizon needs the iPhone more than Apple needs Verizon.
The truth, as usual, is somewhere in between. It's true that Android sales are now ahead of the iPhone. It's also true that it's because the iPhone is only directly exposed to a bit under 30% of the cell phone user base, where Android is directly exposed to 100%. What's amazing is that the iPhone is doing so well given those numbers. This will bring the iPhone exposure to 60%. As Verizon sells about half of all Android phones in the US, as a number of writers have put it, it's a big test for Google.
Now, saying that Apple has lost sales to Android isn't quite true. There is little direct competition there as they didn't interact until AT&T started to add Android phones to its line once it knew Apple was expanding to Verizon. It's tough to pull customers from another cell company, and the fact that Apple did this to millions, and that includes a lot of Verizon customers over the years, is saying a lot. What evidence is there that Verizon's Android phones pulled millions from other cell companies? Not that much.
In surveys, it's bee seen that almost 40% of Verizon's Android customers plan to dump their Android phone for an iPhone either when their contract ends, or before. Wow! Not the other way around at AT&T. Same thing with the BB.
I won't get into the rest now because there's just too much to say. But I understand that your voice in this matter is just as biased as anyone else's. You should too.
Of course, this is just your opinion as someone with loyalty to the company you work for. It isn't necessarily the truth. There have been enough articles with good info as to why Verizon needs the iPhone more than Apple needs Verizon.
The truth, as usual, is somewhere in between. It's true that Android sales are now ahead of the iPhone. It's also true that it's because the iPhone is only directly exposed to a bit under 30% of the cell phone user base, where Android is directly exposed to 100%. What's amazing is that the iPhone is doing so well given those numbers. This will bring the iPhone exposure to 60%. As Verizon sells about half of all Android phones in the US, as a number of writers have put it, it's a big test for Google.
Now, saying that Apple has lost sales to Android isn't quite true. There is little direct competition there as they didn't interact until AT&T started to add Android phones to its line once it knew Apple was expanding to Verizon. It's tough to pull customers from another cell company, and the fact that Apple did this to millions, and that includes a lot of Verizon customers over the years, is saying a lot. What evidence is there that Verizon's Android phones pulled millions from other cell companies? Not that much.
In surveys, it's bee seen that almost 40% of Verizon's Android customers plan to dump their Android phone for an iPhone either when their contract ends, or before. Wow! Not the other way around at AT&T. Same thing with the BB.
I won't get into the rest now because there's just too much to say. But I understand that your voice in this matter is just as biased as anyone else's. You should too.
Apple will sell a bunch more iPhones because of Verizon. That is simply understandable. Basic mathematics and marketing knowledge can come up with that deduction.
However, to say Apple hasn't lost sales to Android and that there is little direct competition between these two is ......well, insane to say the least. They have a similar product. They are on similar devices. It is like saying Ford has never lost a sale to Chevrolet. I am boggled that you could not see that these two companies are competitors....just like ATT and VZW.
Apple has lost sales. Unless you use the logic " You can't lose what you don't have to begin with." I know they have lost sales as VZW customers refused to jump ship to Apple because of ATT. They stayed with VZW and went Android. I don't about you, but, that is a lost sale to me. You can say ATT lost the sales, but, Apple partnered with them. A choice Apple made.
I love Apple products. I really do. My family is proudly touting iPods and iPads. However, I have never seen a blind bias towards a product like I see with Apple.
I don't understand it. No matter how much I blow the Apple horn, I know SJ is not going to come to my house and say thanks. I will not get my 72 virgins and I will not get eternal enlightenment on my death bed ( Thanks Carl Spackler!! ).
Apple has lost sales. Unless you use the logic " You can't lose what you don't have to begin with." I know they have lost sales as VZW customers refused to jump ship to Apple because of ATT. They stayed with VZW and went Android. I don't about you, but, that is a lost sale to me. You can say ATT lost the sales, but, Apple partnered with them. A choice Apple made.
The one problem I have with both your posts is that you make it seem so one-sided: Apple has lost sales to Verizon but no acknowledgment that Verizon has last sales to ATT the past three years due to the iPhone.
Apple has lost sales. Unless you use the logic " You can't lose what you don't have to begin with." I know they have lost sales as VZW customers refused to jump ship to Apple because of ATT.
How about “You can’t sell what you don’t have to sell”?
If your demand already exceeds your ability to produce then adding new carriers won’t help sell a damn thing. They are making them as fast as they can. They’re expect to sell 60M this year. That’s 2 phones every second of every minute of every hour of every day for 2011.
Apple will sell a bunch more iPhones because of Verizon. That is simply understandable. Basic mathematics and marketing knowledge can come up with that deduction.
However, to say Apple hasn't lost sales to Android and that there is little direct competition between these two is ......well, insane to say the least. They have a similar product. They are on similar devices. It is like saying Ford has never lost a sale to Chevrolet. I am boggled that you could not see that these two companies are competitors....just like ATT and VZW.
Apple has lost sales. Unless you use the logic " You can't lose what you don't have to begin with." I know they have lost sales as VZW customers refused to jump ship to Apple because of ATT. They stayed with VZW and went Android. I don't about you, but, that is a lost sale to me. You can say ATT lost the sales, but, Apple partnered with them. A choice Apple made.
I love Apple products. I really do. My family is proudly touting iPods and iPads. However, I have never seen a blind bias towards a product like I see with Apple.
I don't understand it. No matter how much I blow the Apple horn, I know SJ is not going to come to my house and say thanks. I will not get my 72 virgins and I will not get eternal enlightenment on my death bed ( Thanks Carl Spackler!! ).
Every country so far where Apple has moved to multiple providers has seen large sales increases for the iPhone. In fact, the US is one of the lowest iPhone penetrations around. But, despite what you're saying, most people don't leave their carrier for another phone somewhere else. Turnover rates are very low, at 2.5% or so. It's an amazing thing that 35% of AT&T's new iPhone subs are from elsewhere. Therefor, Android sales are taking very away little from the iPhone, because very few of those people would leave their carrier anyway. But where are those new AT&T iPhone subs coming from? Sprint, T-Mobile, and Verizon.
What we see happening is that the carriers without iPhones are getting customers for their other smartphones. Thre are various reasons for this.
One, some people just refuse to leave their carrier for any reason.
Two, some people cant, because their company supplies either their phone, their service, or both.
Three, because people are on family plans and one person can't, or won't leave for an above reason.
Four, people think that AT&T sucks, and won't go there.
Five, there's no service for AT&T where they live or work.
There are other reasons as well. But it's not necessarily because Android is "taking" sales away from the iPhone, though no doubt that's happening on some level. But, according to several surveys last year, many Android buyers simply bought them because because of one or more of the above reasons they couldn't go to AT&T, and so they bought second best where they were. In those surveys, as many as 40% of Android owners on Verizon said they would drop their Android phones for an iPhone at some point. I've never seen numbers going the other way. Have you?
In one general survey, 89% of iPhone customers said they would buy another iPhone.
73% of Android customers said the same for their phone.
Then, we have the BB. 56% of BB owners said they would buy another phone once their contract was over; 35% said they would buy an iPhone, and most of the rest said an Android model.
These surveys are around. You can find them if you need.
We know Verizon lost sales to ATT solely because of the iPhone. Everyone knows that. I have also seen huge accounts go to ATT for the iPhone and come back a few weeks later and use Android devices due to ATT's network. Those are lost sales no matter how you cut it. However, the table has turned on Apple with the dominance of Android. If they do not go to VZW, they will lose more money than VZW will. VZW could do more easily without the the device than Apple could do without VZW unless they go to more US carriers.....Sprint, TMo, US Cellular...however, that is much harder to do than just jumping on the biggest boat to begin with. The new lineup of Android based phones are phenominal. I am not just saying this, but, their specs speak for themselves.
I am not saying Apple will not be a fantastically profitable company as they are saturated globally now...however, they will lose more money by not opening another pathway for sales. They also know if they do not do this, they will be surpassed by Android....oh....they already are.
This is preventitive maintanance and a move to ensure longevity in the game. It is a smart move. It is also a smart move on VZW to get Apple. It is now offering a product that has become more than a device. It has become an icon. It has its own life so to speak.
VZW does not need Apple just like Apple does not need VZW. However, VZW has the leverage back in their court now as they have the largest wireless customer base in the US.
Sure, they could have went to Sprint or TMo, but, their customer base is rather small compared to VZW. Sure, they would have gained more customers by getting the iPhone, but, Apple knows which grass is greener.
I look at it as a postive move by both companies. I do not try to come up with excuses as to why this is doing better than that. I look at the end result and let it speak for itself.
I pay like $133 for me, iPhone and wife, non iPhone.
I can get a new one with unlimited due to granfathered clause ( I told everyone months ago this was about teethering) and my wife doesn't really want a smart phone. Maybe droid. It takes great pix. Anyway tobget her an iPhone would be $15 dollars more a month. With Verizon it's like $189 before taxes. Mines $144-$133 WITH taxes so we shall see. Maybe V can change their prices but tgey do have great video streaming services with excellent gps.
Plus they have 4g so expect the phones if made correct, to run faster. At the very least there should be no lag.
I'm glad they are doing tgis as AT&T could come down in price. Ps
ANYONE KNOW HOW TO BUY A NEW IPHONE UN CALIFORNIA WITHIUT PAYING TAX ON $600?
thanks
No, they don't have 4G. No one has 4G LTE. Their back end, like AT&T is building out support for LTE 4G, but will take 2 full years to switch over and use 3G as the fall back network.
Given that Austria is the size of the average Texan's BBQ, it is not that expensive for a phone company to cover it. How much does your phone company charge you to include France, Germany, Spain, Holland, Portugal etc.?
The average Texas BBQ is > 8 Million? Try again.
One thing is true about Texas. It's Flat. Austria has all the obstacles to interrupt communications with their rugged terrains and steep grades. What's Texas's excuse? Glass towers?
I look at it as a postive move by both companies. I do not try to come up with excuses as to why this is doing better than that. I look at the end result and let it speak for itself.
This is what I expected you to acknowledge in your first post.
As far as who needs who more, I think we will know when we see the Verizon iPhone. If it has feature parity (including VVM at no additional charge) with the ATT iPhone and lacks any Verizon branding, I'm guessing that VZW felt it was pretty important to get the iPhone on their network.
However, the table has turned on Apple with the dominance of Android..
Because Apple is too stupid to realize that others would copy there every move despite having done this since their inception? Because they forgot to give away iOS for free? because they account for 48% of the world?s handset profits and the only vendors using Android are ones who are still struggling to stay in the black?
Quote:
If they do not go to VZW, they will lose more money than VZW will..
If you have 10 apples to sell and demand for 10 apples how many apples can you sell? If you have 10 apples to sell and demand for 15 apples how many apples can you sell?
Quote:
VZW could do more easily without the the device than Apple could do without VZW.
Verizon has lost quarter after quarter to AT&T because of the iPhone, yet Apple keeps making more iPhones and they all seem to get bought, not to mention Apple has other carrier options.
Quote:
...unless they go to more US carriers.....Sprint, TMo, US Cellular...however, that is much harder to do than just jumping on the biggest boat to begin with.
They?ve done it with 40 countries and 100 carriers and you think it would be tough? They partner with T-Mobile?s owner Deutsche Telekom and you think that would be more of a chore than Verizon that requires a completely different technology? They are going with Verizon because they will yield them the most money, but that doesn?t mean they were losing any by being with AT&T or choosing different US carriers for 2011.
Quote:
The new lineup of Android based phones are phenominal. I am not just saying this, but, their specs speak for themselves.
Which specs? HW specs? You are comparing HW specs from disparate operating systems and think that?s a valid argument for ?better? when it comes to usability and consumer interest?
Quote:
I am not saying Apple will not be a fantastically profitable company as they are saturated globally now...however, they will lose more money by not opening another pathway for sales.
As previously noted that pathway doesn?t have to be Verizon. It doesn?t even have to be the US. There are 580 million subscribers in China that use GSM/TD-SCDMA. They already can?t supply iPhones to China Unicom?s piddly 160 million subscriber base.
Quote:
They also know if they do not do this, they will be surpassed by Android....oh....they already are.
No, they never will because the iPhone is PHONE and Android is a free OS that is installed on dozens of vendors PHONES. If Apple cared about you claim they would have given away their OS to increase marketshare. They care about profits and that is where they are killing everyone and why Verizon needs or risk AT&T being the largest carrier with more users who pay for data plans.
Quote:
VZW does not need Apple just like Apple does not need VZW. However, VZW has the leverage back in their court now as they have the largest wireless customer base in the US.
Funny how their dominance has dwindled. They are barely holding onto the most subscribers. In fact, AT&T might have best them over this past holiday season. On top of that we Verizon having to adjust their rates, features, and so many other aspects of their business to compete with AT&T who adjusted their operations for the iPhone.
I?ll tell you what, if the Verizon iPhone has a big ass Verizon logo imprinted on the back I?ll concede that Verizon had the upper hand and therefor need Apple less than they need them.
Quote:
Sure, they could have went to Sprint or TMo, but, their customer base is rather small compared to VZW. Sure, they would have gained more customers by getting the iPhone, but, Apple knows which grass is greener.
There customer base combined is larger than Verizon. Also, the effort to add a T-Mobile iPhone requires nothing more then changing out the pentaband chip for one that includes the 4 used bands and AWS. There is no other change required. A CDMA iPhone is an undertaking. Making it physically similar to the iPhone 4 which was the world?s thinnest smartphone when launched is another.
I thought were trying to be objective earlier. I guess I was wrong.
However, to say Apple hasn't lost sales to Android and that there is little direct competition between these two is ......well, insane to say the least. They have a similar product. They are on similar devices. It is like saying Ford has never lost a sale to Chevrolet. I am boggled that you could not see that these two companies are competitors....just like ATT and VZW.
I don't understand it. No matter how much I blow the Apple horn, I know SJ is not going to come to my house and say thanks.
Melgross has a stronger argument than you when it comes to Android and Apple as competitors.
First, there are over 80 different smartphones that are running on Android world wide. Did you catch that? 80. How many smartphones in the world are running on iOS? 1. Yup just 1. So to say that the Android is out selling the iPhone is a true statement, but it masked with fallacies.
With that amount of phone powered by Android OS, Android should have been and should be outselling the iPhone iOS everyday. It's less of a feat for the Android to achieve those number. It's shocking how long it took the Android OS to pass the iPhone iOS.
Yes they are direct competitors, but it's like comparing Ford's total sales to Hummer's total sales. Of course Ford will sell more cars because they have more depths to their product line unlike Hummer who had only 3 models.
If you want to compare apples to apples then you must take every aspect into account.
And no matter how much you blow the VZW horn Ivan Seidenberg isn't going to thank you either.
Because Apple is too stupid to realize that others would copy there every move despite having done this since their inception?
When you do something great, people are going to copy it. Nature of business. Unless this was sarcasm...if it is, Sheldon Cooper you need more practice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
If you have 10 apples to sell and demand for 10 apples how many apples can you sell? If you have 10 apples to sell and demand for 15 apples how many apples can you sell?
You increase production and make more money. It is a simple philosophy. Business 101.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
Verizon has lost quarter after quarter to AT&T because of the iPhone, yet Apple keeps making more iPhones and they all seem to get bought, not to mention Apple has other carrier options.
Verizon has not lost quarter after quarter. They have continued to grow just fine. There were quarters where ATT did better, yes, usually after a new iPhone was released. Then it went back to normal until ATT discounted the older generation iPhone to stupid low amounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
They are going with Verizon because they will yield them the most money, but that doesn?t mean they were losing any by being with AT&T or choosing different US carriers for 2011.
This post just confirmed what I said. They went with VZW as it will yield them the most money with the least effort.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
Which specs? HW specs? You are comparing HW specs from disparate operating systems and think that?s a valid argument for ?better? when it comes to usability and consumer interest?
Well, do you see an iPhone phone with a dual core CPU, 512mb DDR2 desktop quality RAM, 8MP rear camera and front facing camera? I didn't think so. You can knock the Android OS if you want. I have had the iPhone 3Gs and currently have the Android. I am a self proclaimed nerd. Do you want to know what the average user says when they compare the iPhone to an Android? "The iPhone has prettier icons." Thats it. They know nothing else. They are the average user. I will give Apple this as their GUI is top notch. However, the Samsung Galaxy class GUI is just as polished looking. Motorola and HTC's GUi however, is like comparing Windows XP icons to Windows 7. Not as polished looking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
As previously noted that pathway doesn?t have to be Verizon. It doesn?t even have to be the US. There are 580 million subscribers in China that use GSM/TD-SCDMA. They already can?t supply iPhones to China Unicom?s piddly 160 million subscriber base.
It is not so much as sales as it is keeping your brand in the spotlight. China is not as driven to Apple as the US market is. China is also home based for all the cheaper pirate copies. Since China is a not a state of capitalism, people are not as willing or able to throw money around as we are here. Thye are more likely to buy a pirate copy as it is more affordable.
I know, you are saying China has more money than the US. You are right...China does....however, its people do not have much money. Sweatshops and subpar working conditions anyone??
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
No, they never will because the iPhone is PHONE and Android is a free OS that is installed on dozens of vendors PHONES. If Apple cared about you claim they would have given away their OS to increase marketshare. They care about profits and that is where they are killing everyone and why Verizon needs or risk AT&T being the largest carrier with more users who pay for data plans.
The average consumer could care less about the differentiation between an iPhone and a free OS given to manufacturers. No matter what phone it is on, it is still an Android phone to the average Joe wanting to get into the smart phone world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
Funny how their dominance has dwindled. They are barely holding onto the most subscribers. In fact, AT&T might have best them over this past holiday season. On top of that we Verizon having to adjust their rates, features, and so many other aspects of their business to compete with AT&T who adjusted their operations for the iPhone.
I will give you this as VZW really never put out anything new or exciting for the Holidays as they have the past few years. VZW was more worried about going to CES to drop the 4G phones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
I?ll tell you what, if the Verizon iPhone has a big ass Verizon logo imprinted on the back I?ll concede that Verizon had the upper hand and therefor need Apple less than they need them.
You will never see this. I would be absolutely surprised if I see VZW brand anywhere on the phone except in the signal strength field.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
There customer base combined is larger than Verizon. Also, the effort to add a T-Mobile iPhone requires nothing more then changing out the pentaband chip for one that includes the 4 used bands and AWS. There is no other change required. A CDMA iPhone is an undertaking. Making it physically similar to the iPhone 4 which was the world?s thinnest smartphone when launched is another.
Changing out the pentaband chip or devloping a CDMA iPhone is not the issue or point I was making. However, it is not hard to develop a CDMA version. Qualcomm has tons of chips they would just love to sell to someone. Once you have the chip, it is just teaching the OS to speak differently to a CDMA chip than it usually does to a GSM chip. Not that hard as VZW has been doing it for years utilizing both chipsets in 1 phone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
I thought were trying to be objective earlier. I guess I was wrong.
You are definately wrong, however, I am objective.
Melgross has a stronger argument than you when it comes to Android and Apple as competitors.
First, there are over 80 different smartphones that are running on Android world wide. Did you catch that? 80. How many smartphones in the world are running on iOS? 1. Yup just 1. So to say that the Android is out selling the iPhone is a true statement, but it masked with fallacies.
With that amount of phone powered by Android OS, Android should have been and should be outselling the iPhone iOS everyday. It's less of a feat for the Android to achieve those number. It's shocking how long it took the Android OS to pass the iPhone iOS.
Yes they are direct competitors, but it's like comparing Ford's total sales to Hummer's total sales. Of course Ford will sell more cars because they have more depths to their product line unlike Hummer who had only 3 models.
If you want to compare apples to apples then you must take every aspect into account.
And no matter how much you blow the VZW horn Ivan Seidenberg isn't going to thank you either.
First, Ivan has thanked me personally. I have met him and shook his hand a couple of times.
And you make my point perfectly about the blindness of Apple fans.
It is like arguing that someone is retarded. Then you say that is only because he bumped his head really hard. Guess what, they are still retarded. How they got to that point is of no concern.....the end result is what matters.
So what if Android is on 80 different models of phones? You can argue the means all you want, however, the ends is all that matters.
You guys think I am here to cause trouble. I am not. It is not an argument and as I said earlier, I was looking forward to this day and welcome the opportunities it brings for both VZW and Apple. Again, I am a fan of Apple. Have many of their products, however, I will speak the truth about the situation and will not cloud anything up.
Then I ask this: has Verizon sold any other smartphones without overt Verizon branding?
Yes, the Palm Treo Pro. However, that is a whole different reason. The phone was never released to the public. It was only sold to a certain customer.
I realize that Apple will never let someone brand their product. I have also never seen VZW give up the ability to troubleshoot and replace the devices they sale, however, you will see it with the iPhone.
I assume your point your trying to make is that since it is not being logoed by VZW then Apple obviously had the bigger pud in the meeting. That idea would mean nothing. I have given up certain things to gain more on the backend of the deal. Companies do it everyday.
Comments
This made me chuckle ... it's soooo freakin' true! I stayed in a 5 star hotel once (just once) that I payed a pretty penny for, it didn't come with WiFi.
But you can bet the Motel 6 down the way had fast WiFi that was not extra, you know how I know ... stayed at it to a few months later. The towel wasn't as good, but the porn was AWESOME!
It's true with television, too. The price of the hotel is inversely proportional to the amount of internet/television you get.
Five Star hotel - will charge $10-15/day for wifi and only give you maybe 10 channels on the television.
Motel 6 - free wifi and you'll have the entire spectrum of channels on the television.
This made me chuckle ... it's soooo freakin' true! I stayed in a 5 star hotel once (just once) that I payed a pretty penny for, it didn't come with WiFi.
But you can bet the Motel 6 down the way had fast WiFi that was not extra, you know how I know ... stayed at it to a few months later. The towel wasn't as good, but the porn was AWESOME!
It's true with television, too. The price of the hotel is inversely proportional to the amount of internet/television you get.
Five Star hotel - will charge $10-15/day for wifi and only give you maybe 10 channels on the television.
Motel 6 - free wifi and you'll have the entire spectrum of channels on the television.
Most Motel 6?s I?ve been to charge $2.99 for a 24 hour period. I find that rate to be high but acceptable since their no frills, economy lodging is designed to be inexpensive.
The most I?ve seen ? Las Vegas Marriott, January 2010 ? was $20 per day. Note, this for a calendar day, so if you check in at 6pm that day that $20 will take you up to midnight. How weak is that?
I expected lower prices at Verizon....after all you are getting less:
-slower speed
-no concurrent data and voice access (I can't use my GPS while I talk!)
-no international coverage
-no rollover minutes
-no free visual voicemail
-no free wifi
I'm currently on AT&T like many of you. Although I agree with the above person about not leaving AT&T,
Slower speed - important
lack of simultaneous data & voice - very important
no rollover - i have so much rollover i don't know what to do with them all - not important
visual voicemail - i would have to think that Apple would do something about that
no free wifi - I wouldn't be using public wifi at all anyway.
unlimited data - this would be important for new subscribers.
7: Why Apple.....why VZW...and why now? Well, honestly, Apple has lost some sales to the Android OS. You can deny it all you want, however, it is true. While Apple may be leading in the OS market now, they wont be in the future if they stay with just 1 US carrier. Up to a year ago, Apple could call all the shots they wanted and get away with it. VZW on the other hand, has done well and still grew its customer base without the iPhone (Apple has done just fine on its own, too). This is due to aquisitions and crazy BOGO offers on Androids and Blackberries.
The current trend of going to VZW and supposedly giving in to some VZW demands is the Android OS fault. Given enough time, Android OS will win. It is inevitable. It is a free OS, distributed across multple carriers and multiple manufacturers. This means the cost can be subsidized more greatly and BOGO free promos can be tossed out left and right to get new customers on board. You can say the Android is winning solely based on all these crazy BOGO offers and multiple manufacturers and claim because of this, you are not comparing Apples to Apples and defend Apple all you want, but, the fact remains, they are still gaining enormous ground. In this case, the ends is justified through the means.
You can scream fragmented OS all you want regarding Android. As I have 2 friends who build apps for Android, their input is this: The core of the OS is still the same no matter what GUI is placed on the phone. Anytime they have had a customer complain their app did not work on version 2.2 with one model ,but, it works on their friends with 2.2 on a different model, is due to the user having the issues has rooted and modded their phone ( dumping a piece of software that took something else with it ) or has had some sort of homebrew stuff ( non approved app ) going on.
Of course, this is just your opinion as someone with loyalty to the company you work for. It isn't necessarily the truth. There have been enough articles with good info as to why Verizon needs the iPhone more than Apple needs Verizon.
The truth, as usual, is somewhere in between. It's true that Android sales are now ahead of the iPhone. It's also true that it's because the iPhone is only directly exposed to a bit under 30% of the cell phone user base, where Android is directly exposed to 100%. What's amazing is that the iPhone is doing so well given those numbers. This will bring the iPhone exposure to 60%. As Verizon sells about half of all Android phones in the US, as a number of writers have put it, it's a big test for Google.
Now, saying that Apple has lost sales to Android isn't quite true. There is little direct competition there as they didn't interact until AT&T started to add Android phones to its line once it knew Apple was expanding to Verizon. It's tough to pull customers from another cell company, and the fact that Apple did this to millions, and that includes a lot of Verizon customers over the years, is saying a lot. What evidence is there that Verizon's Android phones pulled millions from other cell companies? Not that much.
In surveys, it's bee seen that almost 40% of Verizon's Android customers plan to dump their Android phone for an iPhone either when their contract ends, or before. Wow! Not the other way around at AT&T. Same thing with the BB.
I won't get into the rest now because there's just too much to say. But I understand that your voice in this matter is just as biased as anyone else's. You should too.
I'm currently on AT&T like many of you. Although I agree with the above person about not leaving AT&T,
Slower speed - important
lack of simultaneous data & voice - very important
no rollover - i have so much rollover i don't know what to do with them all - not important
visual voicemail - i would have to think that Apple would do something about that
no free wifi - I wouldn't be using public wifi at all anyway.
unlimited data - this would be important for new subscribers.
I'm not having any problems with AT&T either. The only reason why we would leave, is to get the discounts from going to all FIOS, when it arrives.
Of course, this is just your opinion as someone with loyalty to the company you work for. It isn't necessarily the truth. There have been enough articles with good info as to why Verizon needs the iPhone more than Apple needs Verizon.
The truth, as usual, is somewhere in between. It's true that Android sales are now ahead of the iPhone. It's also true that it's because the iPhone is only directly exposed to a bit under 30% of the cell phone user base, where Android is directly exposed to 100%. What's amazing is that the iPhone is doing so well given those numbers. This will bring the iPhone exposure to 60%. As Verizon sells about half of all Android phones in the US, as a number of writers have put it, it's a big test for Google.
Now, saying that Apple has lost sales to Android isn't quite true. There is little direct competition there as they didn't interact until AT&T started to add Android phones to its line once it knew Apple was expanding to Verizon. It's tough to pull customers from another cell company, and the fact that Apple did this to millions, and that includes a lot of Verizon customers over the years, is saying a lot. What evidence is there that Verizon's Android phones pulled millions from other cell companies? Not that much.
In surveys, it's bee seen that almost 40% of Verizon's Android customers plan to dump their Android phone for an iPhone either when their contract ends, or before. Wow! Not the other way around at AT&T. Same thing with the BB.
I won't get into the rest now because there's just too much to say. But I understand that your voice in this matter is just as biased as anyone else's. You should too.
Apple will sell a bunch more iPhones because of Verizon. That is simply understandable. Basic mathematics and marketing knowledge can come up with that deduction.
However, to say Apple hasn't lost sales to Android and that there is little direct competition between these two is ......well, insane to say the least. They have a similar product. They are on similar devices. It is like saying Ford has never lost a sale to Chevrolet. I am boggled that you could not see that these two companies are competitors....just like ATT and VZW.
Apple has lost sales. Unless you use the logic " You can't lose what you don't have to begin with." I know they have lost sales as VZW customers refused to jump ship to Apple because of ATT. They stayed with VZW and went Android. I don't about you, but, that is a lost sale to me. You can say ATT lost the sales, but, Apple partnered with them. A choice Apple made.
I love Apple products. I really do. My family is proudly touting iPods and iPads. However, I have never seen a blind bias towards a product like I see with Apple.
I don't understand it. No matter how much I blow the Apple horn, I know SJ is not going to come to my house and say thanks. I will not get my 72 virgins and I will not get eternal enlightenment on my death bed ( Thanks Carl Spackler!! ).
Apple has lost sales. Unless you use the logic " You can't lose what you don't have to begin with." I know they have lost sales as VZW customers refused to jump ship to Apple because of ATT. They stayed with VZW and went Android. I don't about you, but, that is a lost sale to me. You can say ATT lost the sales, but, Apple partnered with them. A choice Apple made.
The one problem I have with both your posts is that you make it seem so one-sided: Apple has lost sales to Verizon but no acknowledgment that Verizon has last sales to ATT the past three years due to the iPhone.
Apple has lost sales. Unless you use the logic " You can't lose what you don't have to begin with." I know they have lost sales as VZW customers refused to jump ship to Apple because of ATT.
How about “You can’t sell what you don’t have to sell”?
If your demand already exceeds your ability to produce then adding new carriers won’t help sell a damn thing. They are making them as fast as they can. They’re expect to sell 60M this year. That’s 2 phones every second of every minute of every hour of every day for 2011.
Apple will sell a bunch more iPhones because of Verizon. That is simply understandable. Basic mathematics and marketing knowledge can come up with that deduction.
However, to say Apple hasn't lost sales to Android and that there is little direct competition between these two is ......well, insane to say the least. They have a similar product. They are on similar devices. It is like saying Ford has never lost a sale to Chevrolet. I am boggled that you could not see that these two companies are competitors....just like ATT and VZW.
Apple has lost sales. Unless you use the logic " You can't lose what you don't have to begin with." I know they have lost sales as VZW customers refused to jump ship to Apple because of ATT. They stayed with VZW and went Android. I don't about you, but, that is a lost sale to me. You can say ATT lost the sales, but, Apple partnered with them. A choice Apple made.
I love Apple products. I really do. My family is proudly touting iPods and iPads. However, I have never seen a blind bias towards a product like I see with Apple.
I don't understand it. No matter how much I blow the Apple horn, I know SJ is not going to come to my house and say thanks. I will not get my 72 virgins and I will not get eternal enlightenment on my death bed ( Thanks Carl Spackler!! ).
Every country so far where Apple has moved to multiple providers has seen large sales increases for the iPhone. In fact, the US is one of the lowest iPhone penetrations around. But, despite what you're saying, most people don't leave their carrier for another phone somewhere else. Turnover rates are very low, at 2.5% or so. It's an amazing thing that 35% of AT&T's new iPhone subs are from elsewhere. Therefor, Android sales are taking very away little from the iPhone, because very few of those people would leave their carrier anyway. But where are those new AT&T iPhone subs coming from? Sprint, T-Mobile, and Verizon.
What we see happening is that the carriers without iPhones are getting customers for their other smartphones. Thre are various reasons for this.
One, some people just refuse to leave their carrier for any reason.
Two, some people cant, because their company supplies either their phone, their service, or both.
Three, because people are on family plans and one person can't, or won't leave for an above reason.
Four, people think that AT&T sucks, and won't go there.
Five, there's no service for AT&T where they live or work.
There are other reasons as well. But it's not necessarily because Android is "taking" sales away from the iPhone, though no doubt that's happening on some level. But, according to several surveys last year, many Android buyers simply bought them because because of one or more of the above reasons they couldn't go to AT&T, and so they bought second best where they were. In those surveys, as many as 40% of Android owners on Verizon said they would drop their Android phones for an iPhone at some point. I've never seen numbers going the other way. Have you?
In one general survey, 89% of iPhone customers said they would buy another iPhone.
73% of Android customers said the same for their phone.
Then, we have the BB. 56% of BB owners said they would buy another phone once their contract was over; 35% said they would buy an iPhone, and most of the rest said an Android model.
These surveys are around. You can find them if you need.
I am not saying Apple will not be a fantastically profitable company as they are saturated globally now...however, they will lose more money by not opening another pathway for sales. They also know if they do not do this, they will be surpassed by Android....oh....they already are.
This is preventitive maintanance and a move to ensure longevity in the game. It is a smart move. It is also a smart move on VZW to get Apple. It is now offering a product that has become more than a device. It has become an icon. It has its own life so to speak.
VZW does not need Apple just like Apple does not need VZW. However, VZW has the leverage back in their court now as they have the largest wireless customer base in the US.
Sure, they could have went to Sprint or TMo, but, their customer base is rather small compared to VZW. Sure, they would have gained more customers by getting the iPhone, but, Apple knows which grass is greener.
I look at it as a postive move by both companies. I do not try to come up with excuses as to why this is doing better than that. I look at the end result and let it speak for itself.
I pay like $133 for me, iPhone and wife, non iPhone.
I can get a new one with unlimited due to granfathered clause ( I told everyone months ago this was about teethering) and my wife doesn't really want a smart phone. Maybe droid. It takes great pix. Anyway tobget her an iPhone would be $15 dollars more a month. With Verizon it's like $189 before taxes. Mines $144-$133 WITH taxes so we shall see. Maybe V can change their prices but tgey do have great video streaming services with excellent gps.
Plus they have 4g so expect the phones if made correct, to run faster. At the very least there should be no lag.
I'm glad they are doing tgis as AT&T could come down in price. Ps
ANYONE KNOW HOW TO BUY A NEW IPHONE UN CALIFORNIA WITHIUT PAYING TAX ON $600?
thanks
No, they don't have 4G. No one has 4G LTE. Their back end, like AT&T is building out support for LTE 4G, but will take 2 full years to switch over and use 3G as the fall back network.
Given that Austria is the size of the average Texan's BBQ, it is not that expensive for a phone company to cover it. How much does your phone company charge you to include France, Germany, Spain, Holland, Portugal etc.?
The average Texas BBQ is > 8 Million? Try again.
One thing is true about Texas. It's Flat. Austria has all the obstacles to interrupt communications with their rugged terrains and steep grades. What's Texas's excuse? Glass towers?
I look at it as a postive move by both companies. I do not try to come up with excuses as to why this is doing better than that. I look at the end result and let it speak for itself.
This is what I expected you to acknowledge in your first post.
As far as who needs who more, I think we will know when we see the Verizon iPhone. If it has feature parity (including VVM at no additional charge) with the ATT iPhone and lacks any Verizon branding, I'm guessing that VZW felt it was pretty important to get the iPhone on their network.
However, the table has turned on Apple with the dominance of Android..
Because Apple is too stupid to realize that others would copy there every move despite having done this since their inception? Because they forgot to give away iOS for free? because they account for 48% of the world?s handset profits and the only vendors using Android are ones who are still struggling to stay in the black?
If they do not go to VZW, they will lose more money than VZW will..
If you have 10 apples to sell and demand for 10 apples how many apples can you sell? If you have 10 apples to sell and demand for 15 apples how many apples can you sell?
VZW could do more easily without the the device than Apple could do without VZW.
Verizon has lost quarter after quarter to AT&T because of the iPhone, yet Apple keeps making more iPhones and they all seem to get bought, not to mention Apple has other carrier options.
...unless they go to more US carriers.....Sprint, TMo, US Cellular...however, that is much harder to do than just jumping on the biggest boat to begin with.
They?ve done it with 40 countries and 100 carriers and you think it would be tough? They partner with T-Mobile?s owner Deutsche Telekom and you think that would be more of a chore than Verizon that requires a completely different technology?
The new lineup of Android based phones are phenominal. I am not just saying this, but, their specs speak for themselves.
Which specs? HW specs? You are comparing HW specs from disparate operating systems and think that?s a valid argument for ?better? when it comes to usability and consumer interest?
I am not saying Apple will not be a fantastically profitable company as they are saturated globally now...however, they will lose more money by not opening another pathway for sales.
As previously noted that pathway doesn?t have to be Verizon. It doesn?t even have to be the US. There are 580 million subscribers in China that use GSM/TD-SCDMA. They already can?t supply iPhones to China Unicom?s piddly 160 million subscriber base.
They also know if they do not do this, they will be surpassed by Android....oh....they already are.
No, they never will because the iPhone is PHONE and Android is a free OS that is installed on dozens of vendors PHONES. If Apple cared about you claim they would have given away their OS to increase marketshare. They care about profits and that is where they are killing everyone and why Verizon needs or risk AT&T being the largest carrier with more users who pay for data plans.
VZW does not need Apple just like Apple does not need VZW. However, VZW has the leverage back in their court now as they have the largest wireless customer base in the US.
Funny how their dominance has dwindled. They are barely holding onto the most subscribers. In fact, AT&T might have best them over this past holiday season. On top of that we Verizon having to adjust their rates, features, and so many other aspects of their business to compete with AT&T who adjusted their operations for the iPhone.
I?ll tell you what, if the Verizon iPhone has a big ass Verizon logo imprinted on the back I?ll concede that Verizon had the upper hand and therefor need Apple less than they need them.
Sure, they could have went to Sprint or TMo, but, their customer base is rather small compared to VZW. Sure, they would have gained more customers by getting the iPhone, but, Apple knows which grass is greener.
There customer base combined is larger than Verizon. Also, the effort to add a T-Mobile iPhone requires nothing more then changing out the pentaband chip for one that includes the 4 used bands and AWS. There is no other change required. A CDMA iPhone is an undertaking. Making it physically similar to the iPhone 4 which was the world?s thinnest smartphone when launched is another.
I thought were trying to be objective earlier. I guess I was wrong.
However, to say Apple hasn't lost sales to Android and that there is little direct competition between these two is ......well, insane to say the least. They have a similar product. They are on similar devices. It is like saying Ford has never lost a sale to Chevrolet. I am boggled that you could not see that these two companies are competitors....just like ATT and VZW.
I don't understand it. No matter how much I blow the Apple horn, I know SJ is not going to come to my house and say thanks.
Melgross has a stronger argument than you when it comes to Android and Apple as competitors.
First, there are over 80 different smartphones that are running on Android world wide. Did you catch that? 80. How many smartphones in the world are running on iOS? 1. Yup just 1. So to say that the Android is out selling the iPhone is a true statement, but it masked with fallacies.
With that amount of phone powered by Android OS, Android should have been and should be outselling the iPhone iOS everyday. It's less of a feat for the Android to achieve those number. It's shocking how long it took the Android OS to pass the iPhone iOS.
Yes they are direct competitors, but it's like comparing Ford's total sales to Hummer's total sales. Of course Ford will sell more cars because they have more depths to their product line unlike Hummer who had only 3 models.
If you want to compare apples to apples then you must take every aspect into account.
And no matter how much you blow the VZW horn Ivan Seidenberg isn't going to thank you either.
Because Apple is too stupid to realize that others would copy there every move despite having done this since their inception?
When you do something great, people are going to copy it. Nature of business. Unless this was sarcasm...if it is, Sheldon Cooper you need more practice.
If you have 10 apples to sell and demand for 10 apples how many apples can you sell? If you have 10 apples to sell and demand for 15 apples how many apples can you sell?
You increase production and make more money. It is a simple philosophy. Business 101.
Verizon has lost quarter after quarter to AT&T because of the iPhone, yet Apple keeps making more iPhones and they all seem to get bought, not to mention Apple has other carrier options.
Verizon has not lost quarter after quarter. They have continued to grow just fine. There were quarters where ATT did better, yes, usually after a new iPhone was released. Then it went back to normal until ATT discounted the older generation iPhone to stupid low amounts.
They are going with Verizon because they will yield them the most money, but that doesn?t mean they were losing any by being with AT&T or choosing different US carriers for 2011.
This post just confirmed what I said. They went with VZW as it will yield them the most money with the least effort.
Which specs? HW specs? You are comparing HW specs from disparate operating systems and think that?s a valid argument for ?better? when it comes to usability and consumer interest?
Well, do you see an iPhone phone with a dual core CPU, 512mb DDR2 desktop quality RAM, 8MP rear camera and front facing camera? I didn't think so. You can knock the Android OS if you want. I have had the iPhone 3Gs and currently have the Android. I am a self proclaimed nerd. Do you want to know what the average user says when they compare the iPhone to an Android? "The iPhone has prettier icons." Thats it. They know nothing else. They are the average user. I will give Apple this as their GUI is top notch. However, the Samsung Galaxy class GUI is just as polished looking. Motorola and HTC's GUi however, is like comparing Windows XP icons to Windows 7. Not as polished looking.
As previously noted that pathway doesn?t have to be Verizon. It doesn?t even have to be the US. There are 580 million subscribers in China that use GSM/TD-SCDMA. They already can?t supply iPhones to China Unicom?s piddly 160 million subscriber base.
It is not so much as sales as it is keeping your brand in the spotlight. China is not as driven to Apple as the US market is. China is also home based for all the cheaper pirate copies. Since China is a not a state of capitalism, people are not as willing or able to throw money around as we are here. Thye are more likely to buy a pirate copy as it is more affordable.
I know, you are saying China has more money than the US. You are right...China does....however, its people do not have much money. Sweatshops and subpar working conditions anyone??
No, they never will because the iPhone is PHONE and Android is a free OS that is installed on dozens of vendors PHONES. If Apple cared about you claim they would have given away their OS to increase marketshare. They care about profits and that is where they are killing everyone and why Verizon needs or risk AT&T being the largest carrier with more users who pay for data plans.
The average consumer could care less about the differentiation between an iPhone and a free OS given to manufacturers. No matter what phone it is on, it is still an Android phone to the average Joe wanting to get into the smart phone world.
Funny how their dominance has dwindled. They are barely holding onto the most subscribers. In fact, AT&T might have best them over this past holiday season. On top of that we Verizon having to adjust their rates, features, and so many other aspects of their business to compete with AT&T who adjusted their operations for the iPhone.
I will give you this as VZW really never put out anything new or exciting for the Holidays as they have the past few years. VZW was more worried about going to CES to drop the 4G phones.
I?ll tell you what, if the Verizon iPhone has a big ass Verizon logo imprinted on the back I?ll concede that Verizon had the upper hand and therefor need Apple less than they need them.
You will never see this. I would be absolutely surprised if I see VZW brand anywhere on the phone except in the signal strength field.
There customer base combined is larger than Verizon. Also, the effort to add a T-Mobile iPhone requires nothing more then changing out the pentaband chip for one that includes the 4 used bands and AWS. There is no other change required. A CDMA iPhone is an undertaking. Making it physically similar to the iPhone 4 which was the world?s thinnest smartphone when launched is another.
Changing out the pentaband chip or devloping a CDMA iPhone is not the issue or point I was making. However, it is not hard to develop a CDMA version. Qualcomm has tons of chips they would just love to sell to someone. Once you have the chip, it is just teaching the OS to speak differently to a CDMA chip than it usually does to a GSM chip. Not that hard as VZW has been doing it for years utilizing both chipsets in 1 phone.
I thought were trying to be objective earlier. I guess I was wrong.
You are definately wrong, however, I am objective.
You will never see this. I would be absolutely surprised if I see VZW brand anywhere on the phone except in the signal strength field.
Then I ask this: has Verizon sold any other smartphones without overt Verizon branding?
Melgross has a stronger argument than you when it comes to Android and Apple as competitors.
First, there are over 80 different smartphones that are running on Android world wide. Did you catch that? 80. How many smartphones in the world are running on iOS? 1. Yup just 1. So to say that the Android is out selling the iPhone is a true statement, but it masked with fallacies.
With that amount of phone powered by Android OS, Android should have been and should be outselling the iPhone iOS everyday. It's less of a feat for the Android to achieve those number. It's shocking how long it took the Android OS to pass the iPhone iOS.
Yes they are direct competitors, but it's like comparing Ford's total sales to Hummer's total sales. Of course Ford will sell more cars because they have more depths to their product line unlike Hummer who had only 3 models.
If you want to compare apples to apples then you must take every aspect into account.
And no matter how much you blow the VZW horn Ivan Seidenberg isn't going to thank you either.
First, Ivan has thanked me personally. I have met him and shook his hand a couple of times.
And you make my point perfectly about the blindness of Apple fans.
It is like arguing that someone is retarded. Then you say that is only because he bumped his head really hard. Guess what, they are still retarded. How they got to that point is of no concern.....the end result is what matters.
So what if Android is on 80 different models of phones? You can argue the means all you want, however, the ends is all that matters.
You guys think I am here to cause trouble. I am not. It is not an argument and as I said earlier, I was looking forward to this day and welcome the opportunities it brings for both VZW and Apple. Again, I am a fan of Apple. Have many of their products, however, I will speak the truth about the situation and will not cloud anything up.
Then I ask this: has Verizon sold any other smartphones without overt Verizon branding?
Yes, the Palm Treo Pro. However, that is a whole different reason. The phone was never released to the public. It was only sold to a certain customer.
I realize that Apple will never let someone brand their product. I have also never seen VZW give up the ability to troubleshoot and replace the devices they sale, however, you will see it with the iPhone.
I assume your point your trying to make is that since it is not being logoed by VZW then Apple obviously had the bigger pud in the meeting. That idea would mean nothing. I have given up certain things to gain more on the backend of the deal. Companies do it everyday.
They also know if they do not do this, they will be surpassed by Android....oh....they already are.
Wow and people talk about the Apple juice. You are chugging the VZW/Android juice by the gallon!
You still don't understand that Android passing the iPhone is NOT a big accomplishment.
More phones running Android on more carriers WILL give you more sales. I would say it's sad it
took them this long. Plus it doesn't hurt sale numbers when you have buy one get one free. VZW
seems to love those deals!