You should read the boards more. I have seen estimates of up to 6 million subscribers that Verizon would take from AT&T. We'll see if it will be that high, but that is about a 3rd of AT&T's current iPhone user base. That will hurt.
PS - AT&T sucks in more places than NY and San Fran. Try Phoenix.
I'm betting it won't be that many. Because not all of those folks will be at the end of contract or have th cash to ETF out. But in the end they could be okay, because they are probably only a third of the folks in question. So two thirds go and it reduces the overload that is what makes service suck. Service might not be great but it should better than totally sucks
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmmx
The really big hit to Android will come when V stops the BOGO program for their phones. I have heard that it was funded by the carriers and not by the manufacturers. If this is so, they no longer have any motivation to keep it up. Android could possibly see a 50% drop in sales (given "leavers" and no more bogos) Unless, of course, ATT picks up the program.
I wonder if V will BOGO the iPhone? Wouldn't that be something!
Unlikely. The iPhone is too good of a contract lure not to use it
All of the major carriers other than Rogers all have the majority of their coverage areas as CDMA only.
1) That automatically makes your assertion of 95% of the country not being covered without CDMA wrong.
2) Bellus will get to the boonies where you live eventually. Just because they haven't reached you doesn't mean that they cut short their 3G network deployment.
In any event, none of the networks in Canada have any interest in putting a halo device like the iPhone on a slower network. That would be bass ackwards. All three major networks are moving towards LTE. As are some of the new entrants. So why would Bellus want to offer two versions of the same phone? They sooner they can get customers migrated to 3G, the faster they can shut down their CDMA networks.
If anything I was being conservative by saying 95%. Just because they draw it on a map doesn't mean it's really there.
People who think Rogers' signal is acceptable must not get out of downtown Toronto much. If you do any traveling at all, you'd know that there are very few places that they have any signal at all. My iPad data plan is completely useless, because even when I'm right in a clean coverage zone, there's no signal more than half the time. It's about 40% in the city, and literally 0% five minutes outside of it.
Telus absolutely did flat out stop their deployment of HSPA. I'm a Telus phone customer right now, and when asked when they are going to build out into manitoba, they told be flat out that they have no plans. They don't even offer any 3G phones here because they will not work. Bell is worse, they pulled out of Manitoba entirely years ago.
It's not just in Manitoba. I travel from here to northern BC regularly to visit my parents. There is no Rogers signal pretty much anywhere outside of the large city centres, but CDMA is everywhere.
I'm not a fan of CDMA because I like it. Yes, I want SIM cards, and international roaming, and concurrent voice and data. But more than that I want to get a signal. I can get a CDMA signal almost anywhere, and a 3G signal almost nowhere.
Too many variables here to predict how many Verizon IPhones will be sold. One of the main factors will be if multiple-tasking is available on CDMA
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
As many have said above, it is inconceivable that SJ would allow the iPhone out with less abilities than it has on every other provider. The is no way in hell a lesser iPhone would be released. I am on record with my neck out I know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSHMAN4
I have to agree with you that SJ would match the ATT version.
I've been expecting this to be a hotter sub-topic than it has been. Isn't the limitation on simultaneous voice+data intrinsic to VZW's network and effectively out of Apple's control until full 4G on VZ?
I've been expecting this to be a hotter sub-topic than it has been. Isn't the limitation on simultaneous voice+data intrinsic to VZW's network and effectively out of Apple's control until full 4G on VZ?
VoRA, I believe. They've been testing it since May.
I've been expecting this to be a hotter sub-topic than it has been. Isn't the limitation on simultaneous voice+data intrinsic to VZW's network and effectively out of Apple's control until full 4G on VZ?
It was discussed at length on yesterday's AI article. It's technically possible through any number of VoIP services over EV-DO Rev. A '3G'. They could use Qualcomm's QChat, which uses similar protocols as FaceTime which in itself contains VoIP, or something else entirely. What would need to be done would require both the carrier and vendor to work together.
The benefits are clear and this could be exclusive to Apple on Verizon forr a set duration. The negatives are less clear, but they potentially worse voice QoS and algorithms than CDMA, and less talk time than using CDMA for voice since it would all be over the more power hungry and faster '3G' network.
None of these are a deal breaker, bur without knowing Apple's cruel desire to keep the handsets as much the same as possible from a user's perspective, what the cost would be to implement, and overall quality it'll be speculation until we get official word.
One of the worst aspects of Verizon's service is their Customer Service and criminal billing charges they have repeatedly admitted to in civil courts.
I've had to deal with 5 fraudulent charges on my account over the past 5 years that have tried to screw me out of a few hundred dollars and the best part was their spurious data plan charges on a phone that doesn't have a data plan.
I moved from Verizon to ATT several years ago due to repeated billing mistakes and the enormous effort it took to get them sorted out.
The iPhone's poor service on AT&T reached the level of pop culture in the US, being routinely featured on SNL and late night talk shows. It was also a major part of Verizon's campaign against the iPhone. This is now coming to an end (with no less than Verizon itself making the announcement). That's a big deal in terms of public perception.
Since there's no way any of the so-called advantages of Android touted by Android fans (openness, customization, etc) have played any significant part of Androids growth, it's likely most Android customers purchased Android phones because they wanted something iPhone-like but did not want to switch carriers. Now the only thing separating the iPhone and Android phones is cost.
I also find it unlikely that Motorola, HTC, et al, have significant brand name recognition or customer loyalty. ... No doubt a great many Android purchases were stopgap measures by people who are waiting for the iPhone on Verizon. If it's not too difficult for them to switch, I think many of them will do so.
"Android Awareness" may be higher than some think. And buzz around certain Android models by name - the name of the phone, not so much the phone maker - exists as well.
Many of my friends are showing up with their new Androids - often small screen, plasticky ones just excited they've entered "the smart phone generation." Others, slightly geekier tout that they have an EVO or Hero or Droid or one of the Samsung Galaxy variants. But few if any of those have mentioned any specific Android apps or a better UI experience or not wanting to be locked into Apple's "closed ecosystem, nor have any expressed concern on the potential non- or slow upgradeability of their installed Android version. This long-time artifact of being a PC user (OS upgrades) hasn't yet penetrated the average phone user's noggin.
There DOES seem to be one essential app which is driving smart phone adoption in general among all of these. facebook.
Quote:
Originally Posted by penchanted
I agree that the expected churn from ATT to Verizon is probably overstated. However, I am not so sure that there will be a lot of migration from Sprint and T-Mobile - so many of their customers are with them specifically because of their lower plan prices. I think most the Verizon iPhone sales will come from inside Verizon's existing customer base.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj
I can only speak to the DC area, but here, Verizon's rep is so good (caused in large part I think by years of underground subway exclusivity) that it's just about as easy to find a Verizon user waiting out Apple as it is to find an actual iPhone user even still today.
I've def been a "waiter" - and a "trickler" - part of the long end of the tail that's seen no need to jump since there are few occasions when I'm more than a few minutes away from PC/Internet access, so getting by with phone, TXT and TV still meets my needs.
This large group will be subsumed by inertia and osmosis once there are few NON-smart phones. And most will stick with their current carriers since the capabilities aren't "mission critical" to our lives or jobs. And less valuable to various interested parties since many will be minimal uptakers of apps or other optional "value"-adds.
Comments
You should read the boards more. I have seen estimates of up to 6 million subscribers that Verizon would take from AT&T. We'll see if it will be that high, but that is about a 3rd of AT&T's current iPhone user base. That will hurt.
PS - AT&T sucks in more places than NY and San Fran. Try Phoenix.
I'm betting it won't be that many. Because not all of those folks will be at the end of contract or have th cash to ETF out. But in the end they could be okay, because they are probably only a third of the folks in question. So two thirds go and it reduces the overload that is what makes service suck. Service might not be great but it should better than totally sucks
The really big hit to Android will come when V stops the BOGO program for their phones. I have heard that it was funded by the carriers and not by the manufacturers. If this is so, they no longer have any motivation to keep it up. Android could possibly see a 50% drop in sales (given "leavers" and no more bogos) Unless, of course, ATT picks up the program.
I wonder if V will BOGO the iPhone? Wouldn't that be something!
Unlikely. The iPhone is too good of a contract lure not to use it
All of the major carriers other than Rogers all have the majority of their coverage areas as CDMA only.
1) That automatically makes your assertion of 95% of the country not being covered without CDMA wrong.
2) Bellus will get to the boonies where you live eventually. Just because they haven't reached you doesn't mean that they cut short their 3G network deployment.
In any event, none of the networks in Canada have any interest in putting a halo device like the iPhone on a slower network. That would be bass ackwards. All three major networks are moving towards LTE. As are some of the new entrants. So why would Bellus want to offer two versions of the same phone? They sooner they can get customers migrated to 3G, the faster they can shut down their CDMA networks.
Rogers alone claims to cover 88% of the population with HSPA.
http://www.rogers.com/web/content/wireless_network
Now, I'm no fan of Big Red but it's hard to argue with their 3G coverage.
And even Bell's not bad.
http://support.bell.ca/en-on/Mobilit...rage_in_Canada
Where do you live that you say they claim to have coverage but they don't? If that's the case you might want to consider filing a complaint:
http://www.ccts-cprst.ca/
I am sure the authorities would love to take on misleading claims from Big Blue.
People who think Rogers' signal is acceptable must not get out of downtown Toronto much. If you do any traveling at all, you'd know that there are very few places that they have any signal at all. My iPad data plan is completely useless, because even when I'm right in a clean coverage zone, there's no signal more than half the time. It's about 40% in the city, and literally 0% five minutes outside of it.
Telus absolutely did flat out stop their deployment of HSPA. I'm a Telus phone customer right now, and when asked when they are going to build out into manitoba, they told be flat out that they have no plans. They don't even offer any 3G phones here because they will not work. Bell is worse, they pulled out of Manitoba entirely years ago.
It's not just in Manitoba. I travel from here to northern BC regularly to visit my parents. There is no Rogers signal pretty much anywhere outside of the large city centres, but CDMA is everywhere.
I'm not a fan of CDMA because I like it. Yes, I want SIM cards, and international roaming, and concurrent voice and data. But more than that I want to get a signal. I can get a CDMA signal almost anywhere, and a 3G signal almost nowhere.
Too many variables here to predict how many Verizon IPhones will be sold. One of the main factors will be if multiple-tasking is available on CDMA
As many have said above, it is inconceivable that SJ would allow the iPhone out with less abilities than it has on every other provider. The is no way in hell a lesser iPhone would be released. I am on record with my neck out I know.
I have to agree with you that SJ would match the ATT version.
I've been expecting this to be a hotter sub-topic than it has been. Isn't the limitation on simultaneous voice+data intrinsic to VZW's network and effectively out of Apple's control until full 4G on VZ?
I've been expecting this to be a hotter sub-topic than it has been. Isn't the limitation on simultaneous voice+data intrinsic to VZW's network and effectively out of Apple's control until full 4G on VZ?
VoRA, I believe. They've been testing it since May.
I've been expecting this to be a hotter sub-topic than it has been. Isn't the limitation on simultaneous voice+data intrinsic to VZW's network and effectively out of Apple's control until full 4G on VZ?
It was discussed at length on yesterday's AI article. It's technically possible through any number of VoIP services over EV-DO Rev. A '3G'. They could use Qualcomm's QChat, which uses similar protocols as FaceTime which in itself contains VoIP, or something else entirely. What would need to be done would require both the carrier and vendor to work together.
The benefits are clear and this could be exclusive to Apple on Verizon forr a set duration. The negatives are less clear, but they potentially worse voice QoS and algorithms than CDMA, and less talk time than using CDMA for voice since it would all be over the more power hungry and faster '3G' network.
None of these are a deal breaker, bur without knowing Apple's cruel desire to keep the handsets as much the same as possible from a user's perspective, what the cost would be to implement, and overall quality it'll be speculation until we get official word.
One of the worst aspects of Verizon's service is their Customer Service and criminal billing charges they have repeatedly admitted to in civil courts.
I've had to deal with 5 fraudulent charges on my account over the past 5 years that have tried to screw me out of a few hundred dollars and the best part was their spurious data plan charges on a phone that doesn't have a data plan.
I moved from Verizon to ATT several years ago due to repeated billing mistakes and the enormous effort it took to get them sorted out.
The iPhone's poor service on AT&T reached the level of pop culture in the US, being routinely featured on SNL and late night talk shows. It was also a major part of Verizon's campaign against the iPhone. This is now coming to an end (with no less than Verizon itself making the announcement). That's a big deal in terms of public perception.
Since there's no way any of the so-called advantages of Android touted by Android fans (openness, customization, etc) have played any significant part of Androids growth, it's likely most Android customers purchased Android phones because they wanted something iPhone-like but did not want to switch carriers. Now the only thing separating the iPhone and Android phones is cost.
I also find it unlikely that Motorola, HTC, et al, have significant brand name recognition or customer loyalty. ... No doubt a great many Android purchases were stopgap measures by people who are waiting for the iPhone on Verizon. If it's not too difficult for them to switch, I think many of them will do so.
"Android Awareness" may be higher than some think. And buzz around certain Android models by name - the name of the phone, not so much the phone maker - exists as well.
Many of my friends are showing up with their new Androids - often small screen, plasticky ones just excited they've entered "the smart phone generation." Others, slightly geekier tout that they have an EVO or Hero or Droid or one of the Samsung Galaxy variants. But few if any of those have mentioned any specific Android apps or a better UI experience or not wanting to be locked into Apple's "closed ecosystem, nor have any expressed concern on the potential non- or slow upgradeability of their installed Android version. This long-time artifact of being a PC user (OS upgrades) hasn't yet penetrated the average phone user's noggin.
There DOES seem to be one essential app which is driving smart phone adoption in general among all of these. facebook.
I agree that the expected churn from ATT to Verizon is probably overstated. However, I am not so sure that there will be a lot of migration from Sprint and T-Mobile - so many of their customers are with them specifically because of their lower plan prices. I think most the Verizon iPhone sales will come from inside Verizon's existing customer base.
I can only speak to the DC area, but here, Verizon's rep is so good (caused in large part I think by years of underground subway exclusivity) that it's just about as easy to find a Verizon user waiting out Apple as it is to find an actual iPhone user even still today.
I've def been a "waiter" - and a "trickler" - part of the long end of the tail that's seen no need to jump since there are few occasions when I'm more than a few minutes away from PC/Internet access, so getting by with phone, TXT and TV still meets my needs.
This large group will be subsumed by inertia and osmosis once there are few NON-smart phones. And most will stick with their current carriers since the capabilities aren't "mission critical" to our lives or jobs. And less valuable to various interested parties since many will be minimal uptakers of apps or other optional "value"-adds.