Adobe is professional software and professional software and services cost money. I would love to own Smoke* but can't afford to drop $12,000 (or whatever the price is now) for it - that does not mean that I have to hate Autodesk, it just means I have to find an alternative (which I did, Adobe After Effects) and deal with the tradeoffs that come with that decision. The two of you obviously don't like Adobe or their software so just don't use it. I am sure that there are people here who can give you alternatives to Photoshop, Illustrator, some HTLM 5 program that provides the same functionality as Flash, After Effects and if not, just live without it.
I didn't. When they bought Aldus they got Pagemaker but not Freehand. At the time Adobe had no page layout application at all. And when they bought Macromedia they still didn't get Freehand.
Don't forget Aldus. That resulted in FreeHand being killed off (and ultimately PageMaker come to think of it)
I have heard some rumors that John Nack from Adobe has been pushing for them to release the source for FreeHand (again, it was just a rumor). PageMaker deserved to die - Quark had routed Adobe on desktop publishing software and I am glad that they finally responded by releasing InDesign (out of curiosity, what features in PM do you miss that are not in ID?)
I didn't. When they bought Aldus they got Pagemaker but not Freehand. At the time Adobe had no page layout application at all. And when they bought Macromedia they still didn't get Freehand.
Adobe is professional software and professional software and services cost money. I would love to own Smoke* but can't afford to drop $12,000 (or whatever the price is now) for it - that does not mean that I have to hate Autodesk, it just means I have to find an alternative (which I did, Adobe After Effects) and deal with the tradeoffs that come with that decision. The two of you obviously don't like Adobe or their software so just don't use it. I am sure that there are people here who can give you alternatives to Photoshop, Illustrator, some HTLM 5 program that provides the same functionality as Flash, After Effects and if not, just live without it.
I have used all Adobe products since the started with PostScript and still use them all. I was agreeing that they now make overly complex UI and I bet this new venture if it comes to pass will most likely be a pain to use for most.
I have heard some rumors that John Nack from Adobe has been pushing for them to release the source for FreeHand (again, it was just a rumor). PageMaker deserved to die - Quark had routed Adobe on desktop publishing software and I am glad that they finally responded by releasing InDesign (out of curiosity, what features in PM do you miss that are not in ID?)
Oh I miss nothing really. I just occasionally pine for the old days in general now and then, I was involved with Aldus, Adobe and Apple back in the day in the sales and distribution side and it was a fun time.
Freehand is an odd situation. It is not entirely dead but Adobe really didn't do anything with it either and there may be some copyright issues with the Altsys founders and the programmers they hired to write it. So it languishes in limbo. But that didn't happen until 10 years after Adobe bought Aldus.
Pagemaker was not killed but morphed into inDesign which shares some of the same layout concepts and distinctly different from the Quark box container paradigm. In fact Pagemaker owners received inDesign 1.0 as a free upgrade.
Freehand is an odd situation. It is not entirely dead but Adobe really didn't do anything with it either and there may be some copyright issues with the Altsys founders and the programmers they hired to write it. So it languishes in limbo. But that didn't happen until 10 years after Adobe bought Aldus.
Pagemaker was not killed but morphed into inDesign which shares some of the same layout concepts and distinctly different from the Quark box container paradigm. In fact Pagemaker owners received inDesign 1.0 as a free upgrade.
I have every version of PageMaker including the prerelease betas in a cupboard
I always liked FreeHand, maybe there is a potential for an iPad version
I have a few of the Altsys disks in the same box as PM and a beta PSs too. This makes me want to fire up my SE I know I'd just end up playing Dark Castle though.
If Adobe doesn't buy Pixelmator and/or release some modern affordable software they'll go the way of Gateway 2000.
Their pathetic emails begging me to buy CS% at a deep discount makes me want to puke.
They DO offer affordable versions of their software - Photoshop element is 79.00 after rebate (and more comparable in specs to PM than the full blown Photoshop). and you can buy PS Elements and Premier Elements together for $119 after mail in rebate. If you are using the full version of CS professionally, you can pay the price for it in a couple of weeks with what you earn from it. Probably quicker. If not, you need to spend less time puking and look at your business model.
If the Adobe software is so horrible, wouldn't companies see an opportunity and 'spill' into this space? What happened to the idea of competition? Also, getting software at this level right is tough to do even for Apple (check out http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2009/09...erture_09.html and yes, I know it is Sept 2009 data but does show that Apple didn't just 'spill' into the space and displaced Adobe Lightroom and 3 years in at least, they were, <gasp> losing ground to Adobe). Apple now seems to be facing a growing problem with Final Cut Pro where Adobe could start appealing to more Pro video users if Apple does not really deliver a brilliant update early this year.
Point is, there are very nice Mac styled "competing" products, none for Photoshop or Illustrator. I don't think competition does well in this scenario, Illustrator and Photoshop are industry standards, whether they are nice or not. It would not go down well at a company large enough to pull this off, "
"Hey bosses, will you pay for the several years of development for a competing product that has the industry locked up and meshes with other products that have their industry locked up too."
I'm not saying Adobe and their products are hell spawn, directly from satan's own stock of evil software products, just that their is significant room for improvement and it probably wont come from adobe.
Point is, there are very nice Mac styled "competing" products, none for Photoshop or Illustrator. I don't think competition does well in this scenario, Illustrator and Photoshop are industry standards, whether they are nice or not. It would not go down well at a company large enough to pull this off, "
"Hey bosses, will you pay for the several years of development for a competing product that has the industry locked up and meshes with other products that have their industry locked up too."
I'm not saying Adobe and their products are hell spawn, directly from satan's own stock of evil software products, just that their is significant room for improvement and it probably wont come from adobe.
I think you summed my sentiments up in that last paragraph very well
I have every version of PageMaker including the prerelease betas in a cupboard
I threw all that stuff out. Funny anecdote: I cleaned out all that old software and put it in a bunch of boxes down at the curb next to the street with a FREE sign on it. Lot of entertainment watching from a window as people would stop by and look. One guy went through every box and selected maybe one or two applications. After about an hour he just put everything, all of it, in the back of his pickup and drove off. The next time I do that, though, I'm going to put it on the other side of the street so people don't get any ideas that there is a lot more inside where that came from.
I threw all that stuff out. Funny anecdote: I cleaned out all that old software and put it in a bunch of boxes down at the curb next to the street with a FREE sign on it. Lot of entertainment watching from a window as people would stop by and look. One guy went through every box and selected maybe one or two applications. After about an hour he just put everything, all of it, in the back of his pickup and drove off. The next time I do that, though, I'm going to put it on the other side of the street so people don't get any ideas that there is a lot more inside where that came from.
We just moved to a smaller house and the wife made me get rid of about seven Macs. I smuggled the SE and the disk in later. shhhh. I wonder if my first edition Microsoft set for Mac is worth anything?
BTW have you played with the Apple ][ and /// emulations on OS X? Pretty cool. I just want a lIsa emulation now.
Point is, there are very nice Mac styled "competing" products, none for Photoshop or Illustrator. I don't think competition does well in this scenario, Illustrator and Photoshop are industry standards, whether they are nice or not. It would not go down well at a company large enough to pull this off, "
"Hey bosses, will you pay for the several years of development for a competing product that has the industry locked up and meshes with other products that have their industry locked up too."
I'm not saying Adobe and their products are hell spawn, directly from satan's own stock of evil software products, just that their is significant room for improvement and it probably wont come from adobe.
Well there is Pixelmator and Opacity. The main reason professionals don't want to switch from PS and IL etc. is that they have to share files with other peers, such as pre-press, printers, ad agencies and magazines, all of which expect the files in Adobe CS for the most part.
Small apps like Pixelmator and Opacity are usually written by one person or a very small team with no venture capital. Photoshop was originally written pretty much by one guy, Thomas Knoll.
Point is, there are very nice Mac styled "competing" products, none for Photoshop or Illustrator. I don't think competition does well in this scenario, Illustrator and Photoshop are industry standards, whether they are nice or not. It would not go down well at a company large enough to pull this off, "
"Hey bosses, will you pay for the several years of development for a competing product that has the industry locked up and meshes with other products that have their industry locked up too."
I'm not saying Adobe and their products are hell spawn, directly from satan's own stock of evil software products, just that their is significant room for improvement and it probably wont come from adobe.
1. I also don't think it would go down really well with you or your bosses if Adobe decided to drop all mac support which is what the original poster had suggested he would like to see.
2. You seem to be arguing that Adobe has a lot of room for improvement but at the same time the competition can't seem to come up with a way to improve it or overcome the hurdle that the software is an industry standard. If it is that bad and you went to your boss and said, "This piece of open source / $30.00 piece of software has everything I have ever wanted, they add new features in every time I suggest them and will save us paying thousands of dollars to Adobe for each suite or upgrade, I would be surprised if they said no.
3. Is there room for improvement? Sure. Our designers and video guys will complain occasionally about something or another at times but truthfully, we did not upgrade many suites to CS5 as CS4 seems to do everything we need right now. If you have a suggestion, instead of talking generally about significant room for improvement, send Adobe specific feedback on what you would like to see added or changed.
Well there is Pixelmator and Opacity. The main reason professionals don't want to switch from PS and IL etc. is that they have to share files with other peers, such as pre-press, printers, ad agencies and magazines, all of which expect the files in Adobe CS for the most part.
Small apps like Pixelmator and Opacity are usually written by one person or a very small team with no venture capital. Photoshop was originally written pretty much by one guy, Thomas Knoll.
The 'prepress' side are usually many version behind in software and you have to save as early versions. Perhaps changing to new software with the ability to save as legacy file formats would be work plus EPSF or PDF are pretty universal as a final format, who wants them to be able to open and modify anyway? .
The 'prepress' side are usually many version behind in software and you have to save as early versions. Perhaps changing to new software with the ability to save as legacy file formats would be work plus EPSF or PDF are pretty universal as a final format, who wants them to be able to open and modify anyway? .
Depends. We do send a lot of working files. Lots of different reasons. I hear what you are saying but it varies a lot form organization to organization.
Comments
I think you nailed it!
Adobe is professional software and professional software and services cost money. I would love to own Smoke* but can't afford to drop $12,000 (or whatever the price is now) for it - that does not mean that I have to hate Autodesk, it just means I have to find an alternative (which I did, Adobe After Effects) and deal with the tradeoffs that come with that decision. The two of you obviously don't like Adobe or their software so just don't use it. I am sure that there are people here who can give you alternatives to Photoshop, Illustrator, some HTLM 5 program that provides the same functionality as Flash, After Effects and if not, just live without it.
Don't forget Aldus.
I didn't. When they bought Aldus they got Pagemaker but not Freehand. At the time Adobe had no page layout application at all. And when they bought Macromedia they still didn't get Freehand.
A copy of your files is stored on Adobe's secure servers, allowing Adobe to access them from any computer or mobile device.
Fixed that for you.
Don't forget Aldus. That resulted in FreeHand being killed off (and ultimately PageMaker come to think of it)
I have heard some rumors that John Nack from Adobe has been pushing for them to release the source for FreeHand (again, it was just a rumor). PageMaker deserved to die - Quark had routed Adobe on desktop publishing software and I am glad that they finally responded by releasing InDesign (out of curiosity, what features in PM do you miss that are not in ID?)
Their pathetic emails begging me to buy CS% at a deep discount makes me want to puke.
I didn't. When they bought Aldus they got Pagemaker but not Freehand. At the time Adobe had no page layout application at all. And when they bought Macromedia they still didn't get Freehand.
I said it resulted in the death of Freehand.
Adobe is professional software and professional software and services cost money. I would love to own Smoke* but can't afford to drop $12,000 (or whatever the price is now) for it - that does not mean that I have to hate Autodesk, it just means I have to find an alternative (which I did, Adobe After Effects) and deal with the tradeoffs that come with that decision. The two of you obviously don't like Adobe or their software so just don't use it. I am sure that there are people here who can give you alternatives to Photoshop, Illustrator, some HTLM 5 program that provides the same functionality as Flash, After Effects and if not, just live without it.
I have used all Adobe products since the started with PostScript and still use them all. I was agreeing that they now make overly complex UI and I bet this new venture if it comes to pass will most likely be a pain to use for most.
I have heard some rumors that John Nack from Adobe has been pushing for them to release the source for FreeHand (again, it was just a rumor). PageMaker deserved to die - Quark had routed Adobe on desktop publishing software and I am glad that they finally responded by releasing InDesign (out of curiosity, what features in PM do you miss that are not in ID?)
Oh I miss nothing really. I just occasionally pine for the old days in general now and then, I was involved with Aldus, Adobe and Apple back in the day in the sales and distribution side and it was a fun time.
I said it resulted in the death of Freehand.
Freehand is an odd situation. It is not entirely dead but Adobe really didn't do anything with it either and there may be some copyright issues with the Altsys founders and the programmers they hired to write it. So it languishes in limbo. But that didn't happen until 10 years after Adobe bought Aldus.
Pagemaker was not killed but morphed into inDesign which shares some of the same layout concepts and distinctly different from the Quark box container paradigm. In fact Pagemaker owners received inDesign 1.0 as a free upgrade.
Freehand is an odd situation. It is not entirely dead but Adobe really didn't do anything with it either and there may be some copyright issues with the Altsys founders and the programmers they hired to write it. So it languishes in limbo. But that didn't happen until 10 years after Adobe bought Aldus.
Pagemaker was not killed but morphed into inDesign which shares some of the same layout concepts and distinctly different from the Quark box container paradigm. In fact Pagemaker owners received inDesign 1.0 as a free upgrade.
I have every version of PageMaker including the prerelease betas in a cupboard
I always liked FreeHand, maybe there is a potential for an iPad version
I have a few of the Altsys disks in the same box as PM and a beta PSs too. This makes me want to fire up my SE
If Adobe doesn't buy Pixelmator and/or release some modern affordable software they'll go the way of Gateway 2000.
Their pathetic emails begging me to buy CS% at a deep discount makes me want to puke.
They DO offer affordable versions of their software - Photoshop element is 79.00 after rebate (and more comparable in specs to PM than the full blown Photoshop). and you can buy PS Elements and Premier Elements together for $119 after mail in rebate. If you are using the full version of CS professionally, you can pay the price for it in a couple of weeks with what you earn from it. Probably quicker. If not, you need to spend less time puking and look at your business model.
If the Adobe software is so horrible, wouldn't companies see an opportunity and 'spill' into this space? What happened to the idea of competition? Also, getting software at this level right is tough to do even for Apple (check out http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2009/09...erture_09.html and yes, I know it is Sept 2009 data but does show that Apple didn't just 'spill' into the space and displaced Adobe Lightroom and 3 years in at least, they were, <gasp> losing ground to Adobe). Apple now seems to be facing a growing problem with Final Cut Pro where Adobe could start appealing to more Pro video users if Apple does not really deliver a brilliant update early this year.
Point is, there are very nice Mac styled "competing" products, none for Photoshop or Illustrator. I don't think competition does well in this scenario, Illustrator and Photoshop are industry standards, whether they are nice or not. It would not go down well at a company large enough to pull this off, "
"Hey bosses, will you pay for the several years of development for a competing product that has the industry locked up and meshes with other products that have their industry locked up too."
I'm not saying Adobe and their products are hell spawn, directly from satan's own stock of evil software products, just that their is significant room for improvement and it probably wont come from adobe.
Illustrator is just now getting to where FreeHand was at Version 8, some 10 years ago....
Point is, there are very nice Mac styled "competing" products, none for Photoshop or Illustrator. I don't think competition does well in this scenario, Illustrator and Photoshop are industry standards, whether they are nice or not. It would not go down well at a company large enough to pull this off, "
"Hey bosses, will you pay for the several years of development for a competing product that has the industry locked up and meshes with other products that have their industry locked up too."
I'm not saying Adobe and their products are hell spawn, directly from satan's own stock of evil software products, just that their is significant room for improvement and it probably wont come from adobe.
I think you summed my sentiments up in that last paragraph very well
I have every version of PageMaker including the prerelease betas in a cupboard
I threw all that stuff out. Funny anecdote: I cleaned out all that old software and put it in a bunch of boxes down at the curb next to the street with a FREE sign on it. Lot of entertainment watching from a window as people would stop by and look. One guy went through every box and selected maybe one or two applications. After about an hour he just put everything, all of it, in the back of his pickup and drove off. The next time I do that, though, I'm going to put it on the other side of the street so people don't get any ideas that there is a lot more inside where that came from.
I threw all that stuff out. Funny anecdote: I cleaned out all that old software and put it in a bunch of boxes down at the curb next to the street with a FREE sign on it. Lot of entertainment watching from a window as people would stop by and look. One guy went through every box and selected maybe one or two applications. After about an hour he just put everything, all of it, in the back of his pickup and drove off. The next time I do that, though, I'm going to put it on the other side of the street so people don't get any ideas that there is a lot more inside where that came from.
We just moved to a smaller house and the wife made me get rid of about seven Macs. I smuggled the SE and the disk in later. shhhh. I wonder if my first edition Microsoft set for Mac is worth anything?
BTW have you played with the Apple ][ and /// emulations on OS X? Pretty cool. I just want a lIsa emulation now.
Point is, there are very nice Mac styled "competing" products, none for Photoshop or Illustrator. I don't think competition does well in this scenario, Illustrator and Photoshop are industry standards, whether they are nice or not. It would not go down well at a company large enough to pull this off, "
"Hey bosses, will you pay for the several years of development for a competing product that has the industry locked up and meshes with other products that have their industry locked up too."
I'm not saying Adobe and their products are hell spawn, directly from satan's own stock of evil software products, just that their is significant room for improvement and it probably wont come from adobe.
Well there is Pixelmator and Opacity. The main reason professionals don't want to switch from PS and IL etc. is that they have to share files with other peers, such as pre-press, printers, ad agencies and magazines, all of which expect the files in Adobe CS for the most part.
Small apps like Pixelmator and Opacity are usually written by one person or a very small team with no venture capital. Photoshop was originally written pretty much by one guy, Thomas Knoll.
Point is, there are very nice Mac styled "competing" products, none for Photoshop or Illustrator. I don't think competition does well in this scenario, Illustrator and Photoshop are industry standards, whether they are nice or not. It would not go down well at a company large enough to pull this off, "
"Hey bosses, will you pay for the several years of development for a competing product that has the industry locked up and meshes with other products that have their industry locked up too."
I'm not saying Adobe and their products are hell spawn, directly from satan's own stock of evil software products, just that their is significant room for improvement and it probably wont come from adobe.
1. I also don't think it would go down really well with you or your bosses if Adobe decided to drop all mac support which is what the original poster had suggested he would like to see.
2. You seem to be arguing that Adobe has a lot of room for improvement but at the same time the competition can't seem to come up with a way to improve it or overcome the hurdle that the software is an industry standard. If it is that bad and you went to your boss and said, "This piece of open source / $30.00 piece of software has everything I have ever wanted, they add new features in every time I suggest them and will save us paying thousands of dollars to Adobe for each suite or upgrade, I would be surprised if they said no.
3. Is there room for improvement? Sure. Our designers and video guys will complain occasionally about something or another at times but truthfully, we did not upgrade many suites to CS5 as CS4 seems to do everything we need right now. If you have a suggestion, instead of talking generally about significant room for improvement, send Adobe specific feedback on what you would like to see added or changed.
Well there is Pixelmator and Opacity. The main reason professionals don't want to switch from PS and IL etc. is that they have to share files with other peers, such as pre-press, printers, ad agencies and magazines, all of which expect the files in Adobe CS for the most part.
Small apps like Pixelmator and Opacity are usually written by one person or a very small team with no venture capital. Photoshop was originally written pretty much by one guy, Thomas Knoll.
The 'prepress' side are usually many version behind in software and you have to save as early versions. Perhaps changing to new software with the ability to save as legacy file formats would be work plus EPSF or PDF are pretty universal as a final format, who wants them to be able to open and modify anyway?
The 'prepress' side are usually many version behind in software and you have to save as early versions. Perhaps changing to new software with the ability to save as legacy file formats would be work plus EPSF or PDF are pretty universal as a final format, who wants them to be able to open and modify anyway?
Depends. We do send a lot of working files. Lots of different reasons. I hear what you are saying but it varies a lot form organization to organization.