Adobe prepping "Creative Suite 5.5 Digital Publishing? for iOS, Android development

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 65
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Realistic View Post


    It will be interesting to see what Adobe charges for 5.5



    This is what I would like to know.
  • Reply 22 of 65
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by polymnia View Post


    You may be right. Flash could become relevant again if it cleans up its act.



    I do question your thinking in characterizing the developers being in the driver's seat. This is partly where Microsoft started driving into the ditch. Isn't there a video out there of Ballmer at a conference jumping up and down screaming 'Developers' at the top of his lungs? Thought I remembered seeing that once. Anyway, my point is that Apple's success of late has come from putting the end-user in the driver's seat. These days a developer who refuses to work in IOS is going to lose customers. Business organizations are suggestion that business owners avoid proprietary web technologies and stick with web standards when building their webs presence. I submit that the company that makes the best HTML5, Javascript & CSS authoring environment will win over the successful developers of the future (IE: the developers who's work performs on ALL platforms). Right now that means Flash is not in the running.



    You are correct about using web standards and the Flash player disappearing from browsers; however, the Flash IDE is the Goldmine, Adobe had already shown "Mashable" an app that converts swfs to HTML 5, Adobe is headed in the right direction, HTML 5 is the next step but still far far away from being a standard. The Flash IDE is a fantastic tool that happens to spit out swf files, that will change. Steve Jobs has always been developer driven, never customer driven, he knows great products will bring customers, he qoutes Henry Ford as asking customers what the want only to find they wanted a better buggy.
  • Reply 23 of 65
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tundraBuggy View Post


    You are correct about using web standards and the Flash player disappearing from browsers; however, the Flash IDE is the Goldmine, Adobe had already shown "Mashable" an app that converts swfs to HTML 5, Adobe is headed in the right direction, HTML 5 is the next step but still far far away from being a standard. The Flash IDE is a fantastic tool that happens to spit out swf files, that will change. Steve Jobs has always been developer driven, never customer driven, he knows great products will bring customers, he qoutes Henry Ford as asking customers what the want only to find they wanted a better buggy.



    I agree that Flash is a great authoring environment even though I don't really use it anymore. If they can retool it to spit out more modern code they may have a winner on their hands. I do wonder if the time that has been wasted by Adobe not fully embracing the new standards may have opened the door enough for a new software developer to create a competing authoring environment.



    I don't agree about Steve Jobs being developer-driven. If the developers were in charge we would never have gotten Mac OSX. They had to be dragged kicking & screaming though many changes to the Mac platform. Just because Steve doesn't ask what anyone wants doesn't mean he doesn't have his customer's needs in mind. His unique gift is to be able to synthesize what his customers needs are without focus groups and carefully sculpt a product that pares away all unnecessary cruft. If anything Steve is Design-Driven. He knows customers will love what he creates (and they do, amazingly almost every time!) and that developers will come around eventually whether they were on board from the start or not (and he has been fortunate enough to win almost every game of chicken he's ever played with developers).
  • Reply 24 of 65
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by polymnia View Post


    I'm not a Flash hater (and certainly not an Adobe hater! Long Live InDesign, Illustrator & Photoshop!!!), but I certainly would prefer an alternative development environment that spit out code to make Flash-type content work in a Canvas element.



    I don't get what Apple's idea for <canvas> is. It doesn't work very well, especially as a Flash replacement. Besides animation on a web page is so passé.
  • Reply 25 of 65
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    I don't get what Apple's idea for <canvas> is. It doesn't work very well, especially as a Flash replacement. Besides animation on a web page is so passé.



    I'll be the first to admit that I don't know how to use it at all right now. I have seen other people's work that is quite impressive, though. I hope that authoring tools will become available that will make it possible for people like me to use Canvas where I might have previously used Flash.
  • Reply 26 of 65
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    suite by noting that the software maker had recently begun beta testing Adobe Flash Professional 5.5.



    Considering that I'm currently using Flash Professional version 11 this seems to be a misprint.
  • Reply 27 of 65
    macrulezmacrulez Posts: 2,455member
    deleted
  • Reply 28 of 65
    The iPhone Packager was updated to work on iPad’s in June 2010. Apple was blocking apps made with Adobe’s iPhone packager at that point, but I imagine the work had already been done so they added that to the update.



    Just go to Adobe’s Flash CS5 download page and the first update mentions that it includes iPad support.



    Also the iPhone Packager always (at least the release version, I don't know about the private alpha & beta) supported multitouch including the pinch to zoom.



    That said, the iPhone Packager is fallen behind the Android support which supports AIR 2.5 API compared to the iPhone Packager that supports just AIR 2.0. This was the result of Adobe stopping development on the iPhone Packager after Apple started blocking Flash apps. So an update to the iPhone Packager to get it in alignment with AIR for Android is likely in the works, but the rest of this rumor seems to be way, way off.
  • Reply 29 of 65
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post


    ...

    2. HTML5 and its canvas object offer no significant performance advantage, if any at all.

    Look around on the web. There are plenty of Flash vs. Canvas comparisons out there, and what they show is unsurprising: if you tax your CPU with computationally intensive operations, it eats power and clock cycles.

    ...



    There is one difference: When Adobe makes a crappy Flash player for Mac OS, Linux, Windows or anyone else they don't have much to worry about. No one else makes a Flash player.



    If Mozilla makes a version of Firefox that poorly renders Canvas & Javascript animations, perhaps Google will build better functionality into Chrome which will force Mozilla to make a better player.

    Competition is the key to improving performance. Notice how much better Javascript execution has gotten since it became a marketing point to promote various browsers?
  • Reply 30 of 65
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by polymnia View Post


    I agree that Flash is a great authoring environment even though I don't really use it anymore. If they can retool it to spit out more modern code they may have a winner on their hands. I do wonder if the time that has been wasted by Adobe not fully embracing the new standards may have opened the door enough for a new software developer to create a competing authoring environment.



    I don't agree about Steve Jobs being developer-driven. If the developers were in charge we would never have gotten Mac OSX. They had to be dragged kicking & screaming though many changes to the Mac platform. Just because Steve doesn't ask what anyone wants doesn't mean he doesn't have his customer's needs in mind. His unique gift is to be able to synthesize what his customers needs are without focus groups and carefully sculpt a product that pares away all unnecessary cruft. If anything Steve is Design-Driven. He knows customers will love what he creates (and they do, amazingly almost every time!) and that developers will come around eventually whether they were on board from the start or not (and he has been fortunate enough to win almost every game of chicken he's ever played with developers).



    It would be difficult for a competing authoring environment to Adobe. The great workflow and round-tripping between Photoshop, Premiere, Flash, InDesign...etc would be hard to beat. I'm sure their tools will export to web standards when HTML 5 actually becomes a standard.



    Yes, I agree, Steve is design driven more than customer or developer driven.
  • Reply 31 of 65
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by allmypeople View Post


    What I don't understand is flash.



    I recently bought a Macbook Pro to act as the mobility my Mac Pro lacks. It's a wonderful little machine but when flash is running (in chrome, safari or firefox) it becomes almost unusable. It's horrible. I won't even get into battery life.



    I can notice a CPU and a browser hit when downloading a huge zip file on my MBP. Same thing can happen with Flash. If it involves a huge download like a movie, it can definitely slow down other functions, especially trying to browse in another window at the same time. That huge download has to spool to the drive and uses a lot of ram doing so. Spinning the drive and the heat from the CPU, ram and spinning the fans can eat into battery life as well.
  • Reply 32 of 65
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tundraBuggy View Post


    It would be difficult for a competing authoring environment to Adobe. The great workflow and round-tripping between Photoshop, Premiere, Flash, InDesign...etc would be hard to beat. I'm sure their tools will export to web standards when HTML 5 actually becomes a standard.



    Yes, I agree, Steve is design driven more than customer or developer driven.



    I certainly agree that the round-tripping in Adobe's Creative Suite is, well, sweet! Still, there as a big gaping hole in their web development software. I'm finding that Dreamweaver isn't well suited to how I work in a Content Management System. I generally just style my HTML using FireBug & a CSS text file. What I could really use is Adobe's industrial-strength tools for animations and other Flash-y stuff...but if they won't work in IOS its a no-go. I use IOS compatibility as a selling point with my customers.
  • Reply 33 of 65
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tundraBuggy View Post


    You Flash bashers just don't seem to get the big picture!



    Mobile platforms need developers in big numbers and as loyal as the IOS developers.

    IOS has about 150K+ developers now. Flash has 5 Million, yes 5 MILLION developers (OK pseudo-developers). Now, think ahead for a minute, think business and outside of the little "I-hate-bloated -Flash world you live in. If an IDE that has 5 million loyal users can be re-tooled and leveraged to develop for the mobile environment, it is pure Gold, a license to print money. Wether you like it or not, its business as usual and it will succeed with Google, Motorola and Intel behind Adobe. Apple loosened the license for a reason. Do you think it was that they were afraid of another lawsuit? They are smart enough to not be left out in the cold when the Flash development tidal wave happens.

    The new Flash Player shown at Adobe MAX was incredible, so, you will be able to get rid of ClicktoCrash in the near future. Wiseup, Flash will be bigger than it ever was before. It is naive not to believe this.



    This is silly.



    1. Even without 5 million Flash developers, iOS has far more apps (and vastly greater revenues) than any other platform. They're doing just fine without Flash.



    2. Adobe has had years to retool their IDE for mobile devices - and has failed miserably. After about 4 years of effort, they've managed to get it to limp along on a tiny percentage of the most powerful devices out there - at the expense of battery life - and choppy videos. If Adobe hasn't fixed it yet, what makes you think they're going to fix it now?



    3. Adobe is regularly pretending to have some amazing Flash player. Unfortunately, the magic one in their demos never makes it out into the real world.
  • Reply 34 of 65
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,348member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tundraBuggy View Post


    ClicktoCrash in the near future. Wiseup



    If Adobe has wised up, I think most people would be happy to get rid of Click to Flash.



    The ball is in Adobe's court. I hope you are right and Adobe has taken this to heart and Flash does improve since, as you point out, it could be a valuable tool.



    Today it isn't and that's the backlash and why things like Click to Flash exist. It's not because of some irrational hatred of Flash, but because of Flash's sucky performance and tendency to perpetuate what is perceived as "low quality" content.
  • Reply 35 of 65
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    This is silly.



    1. Even without 5 million Flash developers, iOS has far more apps (and vastly greater revenues) than any other platform. They're doing just fine without Flash.



    2. Adobe has had years to retool their IDE for mobile devices - and has failed miserably. After about 4 years of effort, they've managed to get it to limp along on a tiny percentage of the most powerful devices out there - at the expense of battery life - and choppy videos. If Adobe hasn't fixed it yet, what makes you think they're going to fix it now?



    3. Adobe is regularly pretending to have some amazing Flash player. Unfortunately, the magic one in their demos never makes it out into the real world.



    Obviously you are not understanding......Flash Player is out of the picture in what we are currently talking about.....Adobe has an iPhone Packager to create NATIVE IOS based apps.....not Flash running on the iPhone......its the Flash IDE, which is an outstanding development environment, exporting IOS based apps. Furthermore, this is not about Apple doing fine without Flash, its about all the other guys utilizing the Flash developers in an IDE that can export native mobile apps and web compliant standards.....NOT swf files for the Flash player. It makes perfect business sense to steer such an installed base of developers to standard models.
  • Reply 36 of 65
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post


    If Adobe has wised up, I think most people would be happy to get rid of Click to Flash.



    The ball is in Adobe's court. I hope you are right and Adobe has taken this to heart and Flash does improve since, as you point out, it could be a valuable tool.



    Today it isn't and that's the backlash and why things like Click to Flash exist. It's not because of some irrational hatred of Flash, but because of Flash's sucky performance and tendency to perpetuate what is perceived as "low quality" content.



    You are correct; however, I agree, swf files running in the Flash player is currently terrible, yet, The Flash IDE is fantastic and if it exported mobile apps and web compliant files such as HTML 5, immediately, 5 million developers are on hand to create content. This is what Google, Motorola are after. All this WITHOUT the Flash player which is the root of the problem for Flash haters.
  • Reply 37 of 65
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by polymnia View Post


    I certainly agree that the round-tripping in Adobe's Creative Suite is, well, sweet! Still, there as a big gaping hole in their web development software. I'm finding that Dreamweaver isn't well suited to how I work in a Content Management System. I generally just style my HTML using FireBug & a CSS text file. What I could really use is Adobe's industrial-strength tools for animations and other Flash-y stuff...but if they won't work in IOS its a no-go. I use IOS compatibility as a selling point with my customers.



    True, although, remember, Adobe has an "iPhone Packager" in Flash CS5 Pro that allows you to export NATIVE IOS based apps WITHOUT the need of a Flash player. There are already many apps on the app store created in Flash.
  • Reply 38 of 65
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tundraBuggy View Post


    True, although, remember, Adobe has an "iPhone Packager" in Flash CS5 Pro that allows you to export NATIVE IOS based apps WITHOUT the need of a Flash player. There are already many apps on the app store created in Flash.



    That's a good start, however, I don't design IOS Apps. I design websites. I'd love to use some Flash-y bits from time to time, but I can't show my customers a missing plugin icon when I demo their site on an iPad and I'm certainly not building multiple versions of my content. My niche is small business customers who don't have the budget for building elaborate workarounds for a little extra Flash. I've swallowed the pill that says 'author once, display anywhere' and if that means there are some types of content I don't offer until the tools catch up, so be it.
  • Reply 39 of 65
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by polymnia View Post


    I'd love to use some Flash-y bits from time to time, but I can't show my customers a missing plugin icon when I demo their site on an iPad and I'm certainly not building multiple versions of my content.



    You don't have to worry about that. There is no broken icon now. They did away with it. Now it just shows an empty space. It really isn't that hard to target specific <div> tags with alternate content even if it is just a static image instead of an animation. The time consuming part is if the Flash you need to use is really interactive, that takes a lot of effort to reproduce using iOS friendly code.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by polymnia View Post


    I've swallowed the pill that says 'author once, display anywhere' and if that means there are some types of content I don't offer until the tools catch up, so be it.



    Not always practical because on an iPhone the buttons need to be larger and not so close together to be sized for fingers. On a desktop having links so big looks ugly. At the very least you should be considering conditional CSS with either user agent or media queries to reformat styles
  • Reply 40 of 65
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by polymnia View Post


    That's a good start, however, I don't design IOS Apps. I design websites. I'd love to use some Flash-y bits from time to time, but I can't show my customers a missing plugin icon when I demo their site on an iPad and I'm certainly not building multiple versions of my content. My niche is small business customers who don't have the budget for building elaborate workarounds for a little extra Flash. I've swallowed the pill that says 'author once, display anywhere' and if that means there are some types of content I don't offer until the tools catch up, so be it.



    Yes, I understand......You will like Adobe's app, currently named, "Mashable"....it was demoed at Adobe MAX, you can drop an swf file on it and it spits out all the animation in HTML 5...Awesome!!
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