Of late, the Camaro was the least offensive of the 3, and it still sucked. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
The 3 being the Camaro, Firebird, and Mustang. The Firebird being nothing more than a Camaro brutally molested with an 'even uglier' stick. Truly disgusting trio of cars.
One wonders (with dread) how disgusting the Charger would have been if Chrysler had continued it??? <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
<strong>Of late, the Camaro was the least offensive of the 3, and it still sucked. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
The 3 being the Camaro, Firebird, and Mustang. The Firebird being nothing more than a Camaro brutally molested with an 'even uglier' stick. Truly disgusting trio of cars.
One wonders (with dread) how disgusting the Charger would have been if Chrysler had continued it??? <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
well theyre getting rid of the firebird also, so soon enuff (after the remaining crapmaros and firebirds break down), we wont have to see those POSs anymore...
Well, I contacted Tischer and they don't charge above MSRP, only exactly MSRP (oh well, you want it, you have to pay for it). However, there is a 10 person waiting list for the thing and delivery will be sometime in February or early Spring. That's aok with me. I think I'll go there and put a deposit down and get on the waiting list.
I think that means I'll get a 2003.
Thanks for the tip Jonathan! Maybe I'll take you for a spin when I get it.
<strong>Well, I contacted Tischer and they don't charge above MSRP, only exactly MSRP (oh well, you want it, you have to pay for it). However, there is a 10 person waiting list for the thing and delivery will be sometime in February or early Spring. That's aok with me. I think I'll go there and put a deposit down and get on the waiting list.
I think that means I'll get a 2003.
Thanks for the tip Jonathan! Maybe I'll take you for a spin when I get it.
Thoth</strong><hr></blockquote>
Glad to be of help.
In other news, what do y'all think of the new Z3 replacement, the Z4?
It's a bit larger, i.e. Boxster-sized, and has a new suspension instead of the god-awful '80s vintage one in the Z3.
Styling is really the questionable part of it- it's the debut on a production car of BMW's new 'flame surfacing' design scheme- convex and concave shapes with creases.
It looks like Frank Gehry designed the car, to me. I like it.
tmp, the Cadillac CTS? <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> Okay, to each his own, but...The only GMs I will ever consider are pick-ups and SUVs...or cars from foreign companies they swallow up.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well yes, to each his own. I like this car (although it doesn't photograph as well as it looks in person); it doesn't look like everything else on the road. It's in-your-face styling is polarizing. But I like that. And if I am forced to give up my two-seater for a sedan, I'd like one with some personality, not to mention a hot engine and great handling. I abhor SUV's in general.
I am not fond of the GT-40. I don't think it's a stylistic stretch for a manufacturer to just reissue a 30 year old design. Ford is doing way too much retro.
In other news, what do y'all think of the new Z3 replacement, the Z4?
It's a bit larger, i.e. Boxster-sized, and has a new suspension instead of the god-awful '80s vintage one in the Z3.
Styling is really the questionable part of it- it's the debut on a production car of BMW's new 'flame surfacing' design scheme- convex and concave shapes with creases.
It looks like Frank Gehry designed the car, to me. I like it.
The idea of driving around the Guggenheim is <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> !!! What the hell is that thing????
I am one of the few people who thinks BMW is doing the right thing by going down their own path, as long as they don't start looking like those Renault oddities.
I love the new 7 series. The first time I saw one was on the belt way and it shocked me so much I almost passed out. That thing has presence.
I think the 1 series may be a bit misguided and will undercut BMW's image, but its a nice looking car, too. I thought the XCoupe was cool too.
Now, I am a huge Porsche fan, BUT WHAT THE HELL were they thinking in building the Cayenne?
. Well, at least a V8 in the stable might mean the return of my much beloved 928.
The Z4 is much better mechanically (it's about f*ing time) but i'd rather be caught driving an Aztec than one of those things. Hell, the same guy probably designed them.
I'm really scared about the 1-Series. BMW does not belong in the regular car segment. Hell, look at what people say about Hyundai's "luxury" car. Or Mercury making the rice-rocket Cougar. The 1-Series is NOT BMW and it should never be made. I guess it's all about money these days and they are willing to give up their name as a maker of world class luxury vehicles to get slightly higher profits <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> . Which leaves us with Jaguar and Mercedes.
Of course, Merc. already makes itty bitty tiny nothing cars for the European market (Smart Cars and the A1, they may be the same thing), we just don't get them. BMW makes 316i's (at least they used to) for the German market, so they have some experience with the low end of the market. However, I don't see what you gain by going lower into the market - that's why Nissan and Toyota made new brands when they went up market - so that the "low end" didn't get associated with the high end and thus drag down sales b/c the cars didn't have enough status.
As for Jag, I'd never buy an X-type as they are essentially nice looking Taurus's for an additional $20k.
Sorry Jamie, I have to agree with _alliance_. The "flame detailing" looks like a bad run-in with a shopping cart. Chris Bangle must have been hired away from Saturn. He's overly fond of weird cut-lines and odd detailing
<strong>I am not fond of the GT-40. I don't think it's a stylistic stretch for a manufacturer to just reissue a 30 year old design. Ford is doing way too much retro.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's an ageless design. Looking at the new one, does it look modern to you?
<strong>The Z4 is much better mechanically (it's about f*ing time) but i'd rather be caught driving an Aztec than one of those things. Hell, the same guy probably designed them.
I'm really scared about the 1-Series. BMW does not belong in the regular car segment. Hell, look at what people say about Hyundai's "luxury" car. Or Mercury making the rice-rocket Cougar. The 1-Series is NOT BMW and it should never be made. I guess it's all about money these days and they are willing to give up their name as a maker of world class luxury vehicles to get slightly higher profits <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> . Which leaves us with Jaguar and Mercedes.
Suffice it to say, the 1 is not targeted at the 'regular car' segment. It's going to be small, but expensive. Don't think that it's going to be some crappy, underengineered POS. It's going to be very much a BMW. Just a small one.
It's very much targeted at the VW Jetta/Golf/Cabrio.
It's *very* small.
Guaranteed, nobody who will be looking at a Camry or an Accord will be looking at a 1. Driving dynamics are going to be very, very good. 50/50 weight distribution with a light car and a rev-happy engine = lots of fun.
Jaguar gave up the reputation of being a maker of world-class luxury vehicles slightly after they bent over and recieved the Blue Oval lovin'. See the new X-Type for Jaguar gone horribly, horribly wrong.
Mercedes already makes a ~$20,000 car, it's called the A class. Europe only, though.
They also make something called the C-coupe. Ever see one of them? Yeah, it's 'not a Mercedes' just as much as the 1/2 series 'won't be a BMW'.
Remember, BMW's roots as a prominent car maker can be traced to the 2002, a *shock* small, inexpensive, sporty car. Hmm, the 1/2 series have been announced (by management) as the spiritual successor to that car. Yeah.
Thoth: good man. I saw a new 7 on M street and gawked. Presence galore. Pictures don't do justice at all. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
Well, remember that a mod means you have actually added some kind of improvement. I think as long as you don't slap an R-Type badge on that Honda Civic you will be fine. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
Comments
The 3 being the Camaro, Firebird, and Mustang. The Firebird being nothing more than a Camaro brutally molested with an 'even uglier' stick. Truly disgusting trio of cars.
One wonders (with dread) how disgusting the Charger would have been if Chrysler had continued it??? <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
[ 08-07-2002: Message edited by: Matsu ]</p>
nice new merc s320 cdi..tanzanite blue w/ orion leather..yum yum
wipes the floor with the jap crap.
lexus are bag-o-shyte wannabes. in japan they're called toyota's. ha - wot a joke!
new beemer looks cack but its v well made and unlike a lexus at least it has class.
<strong>Of late, the Camaro was the least offensive of the 3, and it still sucked. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
The 3 being the Camaro, Firebird, and Mustang. The Firebird being nothing more than a Camaro brutally molested with an 'even uglier' stick. Truly disgusting trio of cars.
One wonders (with dread) how disgusting the Charger would have been if Chrysler had continued it??? <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
[ 08-07-2002: Message edited by: Matsu ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
well theyre getting rid of the firebird also, so soon enuff (after the remaining crapmaros and firebirds break down), we wont have to see those POSs anymore...
finally... <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
I think that means I'll get a 2003.
Thanks for the tip Jonathan! Maybe I'll take you for a spin when I get it.
Thoth
<strong>Well, I contacted Tischer and they don't charge above MSRP, only exactly MSRP (oh well, you want it, you have to pay for it). However, there is a 10 person waiting list for the thing and delivery will be sometime in February or early Spring. That's aok with me. I think I'll go there and put a deposit down and get on the waiting list.
I think that means I'll get a 2003.
Thanks for the tip Jonathan! Maybe I'll take you for a spin when I get it.
Thoth</strong><hr></blockquote>
Glad to be of help.
In other news, what do y'all think of the new Z3 replacement, the Z4?
It's a bit larger, i.e. Boxster-sized, and has a new suspension instead of the god-awful '80s vintage one in the Z3.
Styling is really the questionable part of it- it's the debut on a production car of BMW's new 'flame surfacing' design scheme- convex and concave shapes with creases.
It looks like Frank Gehry designed the car, to me. I like it.
<a href="http://www.bmwinfo.com/0200.html"; target="_blank">http://www.bmwinfo.com/0200.html</a>;
<strong>
tmp, the Cadillac CTS? <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
Well yes, to each his own. I like this car (although it doesn't photograph as well as it looks in person); it doesn't look like everything else on the road. It's in-your-face styling is polarizing. But I like that. And if I am forced to give up my two-seater for a sedan, I'd like one with some personality, not to mention a hot engine and great handling. I abhor SUV's in general.
I am not fond of the GT-40. I don't think it's a stylistic stretch for a manufacturer to just reissue a 30 year old design. Ford is doing way too much retro.
<strong>
Glad to be of help.
In other news, what do y'all think of the new Z3 replacement, the Z4?
It's a bit larger, i.e. Boxster-sized, and has a new suspension instead of the god-awful '80s vintage one in the Z3.
Styling is really the questionable part of it- it's the debut on a production car of BMW's new 'flame surfacing' design scheme- convex and concave shapes with creases.
It looks like Frank Gehry designed the car, to me. I like it.
<a href="http://www.bmwinfo.com/0200.html"; target="_blank">http://www.bmwinfo.com/0200.html</a></strong><hr></blockquote>;
I think its very sharp.
The idea of driving around the Guggenheim is <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> !!! What the hell is that thing????
I am one of the few people who thinks BMW is doing the right thing by going down their own path, as long as they don't start looking like those Renault oddities.
I love the new 7 series. The first time I saw one was on the belt way and it shocked me so much I almost passed out. That thing has presence.
I think the 1 series may be a bit misguided and will undercut BMW's image, but its a nice looking car, too. I thought the XCoupe was cool too.
Now, I am a huge Porsche fan, BUT WHAT THE HELL were they thinking in building the Cayenne?
But, probably not. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
Thoth
I detect no digestion of insectae in its lines, but it does seem to have swallowed some sort of PC:
<a href="http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/roadtests/2002/june/200206_roadtest_745i.xml?keywords=BMW 745" target="_blank">You may need classes to drive it</a>
Thoth
I'm really scared about the 1-Series. BMW does not belong in the regular car segment. Hell, look at what people say about Hyundai's "luxury" car. Or Mercury making the rice-rocket Cougar. The 1-Series is NOT BMW and it should never be made. I guess it's all about money these days and they are willing to give up their name as a maker of world class luxury vehicles to get slightly higher profits <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> . Which leaves us with Jaguar and Mercedes.
[ 08-07-2002: Message edited by: G4Dude ]</p>
<strong> Which leaves us with Jaguar and Mercedes.
[ 08-07-2002: Message edited by: G4Dude ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Of course, Merc. already makes itty bitty tiny nothing cars for the European market (Smart Cars and the A1, they may be the same thing), we just don't get them. BMW makes 316i's (at least they used to) for the German market, so they have some experience with the low end of the market. However, I don't see what you gain by going lower into the market - that's why Nissan and Toyota made new brands when they went up market - so that the "low end" didn't get associated with the high end and thus drag down sales b/c the cars didn't have enough status.
As for Jag, I'd never buy an X-type as they are essentially nice looking Taurus's for an additional $20k.
Thoth
<strong>not as hideous as the Z3, but still ugly...</strong><hr></blockquote>
"Sir, your glasses have been repaired and are now ready for collection."
As soon as the Z4 hits the UK my ass will be sitting in one. I might even buy it.
J :cool:
<strong>I am not fond of the GT-40. I don't think it's a stylistic stretch for a manufacturer to just reissue a 30 year old design. Ford is doing way too much retro.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's an ageless design. Looking at the new one, does it look modern to you?
<strong>The Z4 is much better mechanically (it's about f*ing time) but i'd rather be caught driving an Aztec than one of those things. Hell, the same guy probably designed them.
I'm really scared about the 1-Series. BMW does not belong in the regular car segment. Hell, look at what people say about Hyundai's "luxury" car. Or Mercury making the rice-rocket Cougar. The 1-Series is NOT BMW and it should never be made. I guess it's all about money these days and they are willing to give up their name as a maker of world class luxury vehicles to get slightly higher profits <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> . Which leaves us with Jaguar and Mercedes.
[ 08-07-2002: Message edited by: G4Dude ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Jesus.
Suffice it to say, the 1 is not targeted at the 'regular car' segment. It's going to be small, but expensive. Don't think that it's going to be some crappy, underengineered POS. It's going to be very much a BMW. Just a small one.
It's very much targeted at the VW Jetta/Golf/Cabrio.
It's *very* small.
Guaranteed, nobody who will be looking at a Camry or an Accord will be looking at a 1. Driving dynamics are going to be very, very good. 50/50 weight distribution with a light car and a rev-happy engine = lots of fun.
Jaguar gave up the reputation of being a maker of world-class luxury vehicles slightly after they bent over and recieved the Blue Oval lovin'. See the new X-Type for Jaguar gone horribly, horribly wrong.
Mercedes already makes a ~$20,000 car, it's called the A class. Europe only, though.
They also make something called the C-coupe. Ever see one of them? Yeah, it's 'not a Mercedes' just as much as the 1/2 series 'won't be a BMW'.
Remember, BMW's roots as a prominent car maker can be traced to the 2002, a *shock* small, inexpensive, sporty car. Hmm, the 1/2 series have been announced (by management) as the spiritual successor to that car. Yeah.
Thoth: good man. I saw a new 7 on M street and gawked. Presence galore. Pictures don't do justice at all. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
[ 08-07-2002: Message edited by: Jonathan ]</p>
I should change my sig to "Mod the f-ck out of it!".
[ 08-07-2002: Message edited by: apple.otaku ]</p>
In that case, then a Bugatti Veyron for me then. When your brake hp rating is more than 3 digits, no modding is necessary.
Actually, my tastes run more toward a Maybach.