ever since I was a kid I wanted to be in the Air Force flying military jet fighters. I fell in love with the F14. When Top Gun came out I watched it about 30 times to see more of my (still) favorite fighter. The design of that plane is just unparalleled. Aggressive yet sleek and just damn sexy. Was even cooler that Robotech had bots/planes that were based off the F14 design. Obviously bought the GI Joe Awestriker
In anycase, when I got older my eyesight got slightly worse and got demoralized about joining since you have to have 20/20+ vision. I have something like 19/20. But I still can pick things out that others have difficulty seeing. So, because of the sight thing, when I was about 12 I realized I would never make it to be a fighter pilot. I thought of joining the Marine Corps and got as much info as possible, then though, moved around a lot, to Europe, etc etc and never ended up doing it.
Since I am also Italian its obligatory service in Italy. But THAT is a joke. If I was gonna do it I was going to be Airborne (Para') but a friend of mine did it and came back with horror stories. Almost no training, in 10months they fired about to mags worth of ammo at broken targets, troops getting 3rd world nation diseases, food that wouldnt be served to your worst enemy.
To make a long thing short, I did everything in my power not to do Italian service. Luckily they have changed the rules and so because of constant university classes I could postpone every year and finally managed to get them off to take me off the list of potential recruits. Now, its finally totally volontary service and no draft is necessary.
However I follow everything military very closely, keeping up to speed on weapons, tactics, systems, technology, etc. I'm one of those guys in the movies that will look at the guns and stuff and determine if its possible, what model it is, etc etc
I was drafted but when I had to do my time I became a conscientious objector. But it was okay. I had to do 18 hours of work per week (at a shelter for drug addicts, mentally ill and homeless) and had time to attend what correspond to something inbetween high school and college.
Best thing was I got paid both for being a student and for doing military service. After tax I made $1450/month.
At the risk of eliciting your collective wrath(s), I f**cking hate the f**cking army. It's made up of inbred losers and insecure ku klux klan redneck shit. Most of all, I hate the US army and their culture (if you will allow me this oxymoron) of testosteron and having the longest prick. In my own country, most like in any other, the army is made up solely of stupid guys, but they don't have the arrogance of US 'my-shit-don't-smell-ain't-I-something,-I-****-my-sister' cannon fodder.
Up until ten years ago, there used to be an obligatory year of service for all the boys of my homeland, but I'm friggin glad they abandoned that.
And then to think that I'm forced to vent the voice of reason in AI, a mere two years after the release of the flower power iMac. Ein fester Burg ist unser Gott. That's about it, my friends, love you all anyway.
<strong>...but they don't have the arrogance of US 'my-shit-don't-smell-ain't-I-something,-I-****-my-sister' cannon fodder.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's called confidence. You wouldn't want some depressed guy walking out on the battlefield. As for your other comments...well...you're entitled to your opinion, and your army fights for your right to say what you want.
[/QB](...) I f**cking hate the f**cking army (...) inbred losers and insecure ku klux klan redneck shit (...) having the longest prick (...) stupid guys (...) my-shit-don't-smell-ain't-I-something,-I-****-my-sister' cannon fodder[/QB]<hr></blockquote>
(i'll just take a wild guess that you speak german)
dies ist nicht der platz um solche nicht-fundierte and niveau-losen hassreden loszuwerden.
wenn du etwas kontruktives beitragen moechtest, dann solltest du erst mal lernen mit mitmenschen zu kommunizieren (dies haben uebrigens die armeeangehoerigen der usa in diesem thread prima hingekriegt).
werde erwachsen und du wirst hier willkommen sein.
1. I do. I served 3 years and 7 months as a Military Policeman in the U.S. Army. I liked it but got out to try civilian life. Stayed in the reserves till I got back from Desert Storm, then I got out.
2. I lived in a small town where the options were: a) Factory job b) coal mines c) farmer d) odd jobs e) college f) military
So I chose military. Don't regret it one bit.
3. Went to 16 weeks of Basic/AIT (Advanced Individual Training) at Ft. McClellan Alabama, then 1 year at Ft. Huachuca, Arizona...beautiful place!, 1 year at Cakmakli, Turkey, and 1 year at Ft. Hood Texas.
4. Well..it helped with confidence,teamwork, love of country, and as corny as it sounds, duty honor and sacrifice.
[quote] (i'll just take a wild guess that you speak german) <hr></blockquote>
Actually, I barely speak that tongue, but I thought German might be illustrative to my case.
Anyway, you are right in that I rant without having good arguments for my ranting. I have been thinking anyway. About freedom for example, so honored by MGossett. An independent survey, based on a variety of socio-economic factors has showed that my home country, Belgium, is among the 'free-est' countries in the world, The USA, need it be said, comes quite late in the list. For what is this freedom Americans cherish? Burning something meaningless like a piece of cloth with a few stars and stripes drawn on them can get you in jail. You cannot speak of the unmentionable, or you get censored before you can utter the words, and just to prove my case, what would be behind these stars: ****! ? You cannot curse on a record or some christian soldier will label you with them darn explicit lyrics stickers. If you have homosexual contacts in Texas, you are, in fact, comitting a crime. Now these are, admittedly, small examples, but they go to show that America's army has all but procured more freedom for Americans, and this in spite of the fact that the budget for defense is bigger than Belgiums budget for EVERYTHING.
Next, compare this to the Belgian army, which has never been able to defend Belgium from anything at all (I remember the 20th century, and so do my grandparents).
Next. I hope everybody here realises that history is written by the victor. Now everybody is, justly, focused like a maniac on the events of september 11th, but, horrible as they were, they are smallish, quantitatively in comparison to events in the Balkan, in Rwanda, in Sierra Leone, in Sudan, ...
Germans did horrible things during the Second World War, but no mention of America's deeds. Has anybody ever thought of America's concentration camps where they kept Japanese? And especially, about their two atom bombs that killed hundreds of thousands of people?
I agree, I am not so good at this, because I constantly am pervaded by the feeling that there are two, three, four ... sides to everything. Yet, my initial rant was mainly inspired by this feeling that I, and I imagine, many non-US citizens with me, have: the US and its inhabitants are simply too fanatical about their own truth. They are, in fact, radicals in their own right.
And to close off, has anybody heard of T.I.P.S, your president's luminous idea to pay millions of civilians for tips about their neighbourhood? And has anybody ever felt a chilling parallel to the KGB? And has anybody ever wondered what has become of freedom in such a system? What, however, can we expect from a president who claimed that there have to be limits to freedom?
<strong>(...) You cannot speak of the unmentionable, or you get censored before you can utter the words, and just to prove my case, what would be behind these stars: ****!? You cannot curse on a record or some christian soldier will label you with them darn explicit lyrics stickers.(...)</strong><hr></blockquote>
is cursing freedom to you?!?
what benefit do you get to curse in front of children or elderly? should they lose there freedom to be comfortable because of your freedom to curse?
<strong> [quote](...) small examples, but they go to show that America's army has all but procured more freedom for Americans (...)</strong><hr></blockquote>
they sure procured more freedom to you!
in wwII i think a lot of people in europe were kind of glad when the us fist supported france and england with money and then hit the normandie.
<strong> [quote]and this in spite of the fact that the budget for defense is bigger than Belgiums budget for EVERYTHING.</strong><hr></blockquote>
are you comparing the us with belgium?
<strong> [quote](...) Now everybody is, justly, focused like a maniac on the events of september 11th, but, horrible as they were, they are smallish, quantitatively in comparison to events in the Balkan, in Rwanda, in Sierra Leone, in Sudan, ...</strong><hr></blockquote>
i not going to talk about the "right or wrong" of these actions but the us had at least "reasons" and "goals".
there is no "reason" and no "goal" to blindly (there where even moslems in the building) kill so many people in that manner.
balkan: would it be better to have waited 'till milosevic had his job done?? what about the freedom of the bosnien???
<strong> [quote]Germans did horrible things during the Second World War, but no mention of America's deeds. Has anybody ever thought of America's concentration camps where they kept Japanese?(...)</strong><hr></blockquote>
did they gas 6 million japanese to death?
<strong> [quote]And especially, about their two atom bombs that killed hundreds of thousands of people?</strong><hr></blockquote>
read above: "reason and goals".
<strong> [quote]What, however, can we expect from a president who claimed that there have to be limits to freedom?</strong><hr></blockquote>
its all about "how much" freedom.
we are far to many on this planet that everybody can do what he pleases.
freedom comes with limitations.
it's the goal of a democracie that the majority of the people in your contry decide "how much"
I was in the Air Force for 4.5 years. The first year I trained for special forces(Pararescue) which is the eqiuvalent of a navy seal. I found that I had a son on the way and dropped the course and worked maintenance for the rest of my time. Due to back surgery I was medically boarded, which means that for the rest of my life I will recieve a check and medical care. On top of that they are paying for all of my schooling, books, supplies and a living allowance on top of my disablity check while in school. My wife is still in the military. She is a nurse. She likes her job and all is well as long as she does not go overseas.
I just went over 14 years in July. Active duty Navy. Right now I'm in Norfolk and soon to go to a new school in November. So far I've been on 4 subs, 2 carriers, 3 amphibs, and 1 cruiser. Been to Hawaii and all over Europe and also to Norway, which is babe heaven.
I have to go to a new school because I screwed out of my TS/SCI clearance. Now my dream is win the big lottery and buy the civilian puke's house in DC who revoked my clearance and burn it down. After I give him about a 10 minutes warning that I'm coming. As you can tell, I hold no ill feelings about the whole matter...
1) not anymore (did 17 weeks boot camp, 4 3-week "camps" and quit because it sucked)
2) i quit because the army is a joke here. very low-tech and not very realistic.
3) in switzerland
4) overall its not to tough and you get to see the country and shoot a lot of guns</strong><hr></blockquote>
1.) still serving Active Duty Air Force
2.) two reasons, discipline and to provide
direction in my life.
3.) Mcguire AFB, NJ
4.) I enjoy it. Never in my life I thought i would become a mechanic because I knew nothing about the mechanical side of things nor did I want to. Sure enough though, when I signed up and got through basic training, I went to text school to become a mechanic. To my suprise it's been a rewarding experience, and I'm better off now for learning the mechanical side of things.
Most people say the Air Force is the "Business Force." We're all about looking and acting professionally. We may not have to fall out into formation every day before work, but we sure as heck better have our boots shined, hair cut, and uniform pressed else we'll hear it from our peers.
Being in the maintenance field, there's only one guarantee. There will always be work to do. There will be times we have to pull 12 hour shifts for weeks at a time, or work thru the weekends, or worse yet, both. The pay is ok, even though we don't get overtime The experience is one of a kind though, i'm a quarter of the way to becoming retired, scary how time can fly.
I enjoy the chance to get to see new places. I've been all over the u.s.(just about reached my goal of seeing all 50 states) and I just got back from the middle east a couple months ago. Fortunately my wife is very understanding of what I do, and for that I'm very thankful
I have made my military service (one year) in the medical services of the army in 1993 in a military hospital where they practiced some esthetic surgery
My fee was about 200 $ per month and i was practicing exactly the same job than in civil life, except during the school (one month).
I am a reserve officer now (something like captain or major) but i am now more in contact with the army ( i am too busy at work)
The military medical services in france are in very poor shape. i have discussed with some people i used to now here who where professional soldiers : and they are very sad.
Now the military service do not exist any more in France : it's a good thing : the way it was made was a non-sense (my personnal experience is that i have worked for free during one year to do exactly the same job that i made before). I wish that the french army will be in a better shape in the future. I am for a real professional army and not a ghost army.
1) I served 2 yrs as an enlisted person in the US Navy, back between 1991 and 1993 (I would have also done 4 yrs after that in active reserves but managed to get out of it.)
2) I simply felt it was "my time". My father and many uncles fought in WW2 and I was just feeling like I needed a change of pace. I was out of high school since 1987, and working full-time, but my life wasn't really "going anywhere". But mainly I wanted to do my part, and was feeling patriotic.
3) I did basic training at Great Lakes Naval Training Center just outside Chicago Illinois for 8 weeks and did 4 weeks in an Apprenticeship Training program. Then I was stationned on the Aircraft Carrier U.S.S. Forrestal (now decomissioned). My duties included operation and maintainance of the ships engineering hydraulics equipment, like the aircraft eevators, anchor windlass, and ships steering.
I caught the tail end of the ships last Mediterranian cruise and got to see Spain, Turkey, France and Cicily. The ship was then converted to a pilot training carrier. I spent some time in Jacksonville Florida and then about a year in Pennsacola. From there the ship was to be re-fit at the Philadelphia Shipyards in Pennsylvania, but was decomissioned instead.
4) It was great since I've never seen so much of the world before or even after that. It really did straighten me up also, and helped build confidence. My only regret is most of my service time was spent in the US instead of overseas.
Okay Peve, I was way to harsh in my first reaction. I could maybe live with the idea that the army is an evil but necessary presence in this often deluded world. Still I don't like it, and I don't really get this thread that well, apparantly most of the posters are happy to tell about their experience and are proud of their military career. Now, this, for one, is way different in my small home country, and, on a more subjective note, I think better. Because you can focus really long on the positive sides of having an army, I can't get over the fact that armies work with guns, and guns kill, and that making guns and other killing apparati is one of the US' prime industries, and that these very guns have an awkward way of
a) ending up in very wrong hands
b) dominating US culture. Of course the US has a recent history of cowboys guarding their newfound gold with a couple of six-shooters, but this, as we are now, one tends to say, 'more civilized', should no longer be the case.
I think of the surreal reality in some of the US' nicer states, where one is allowed to possess some 50 guns. Yet one is enough to kill a thousand people.
But I waited to reply, to get some of the heat off the lid. Because it is a discussion that will never end.
Comments
In anycase, when I got older my eyesight got slightly worse and got demoralized about joining since you have to have 20/20+ vision. I have something like 19/20. But I still can pick things out that others have difficulty seeing. So, because of the sight thing, when I was about 12 I realized I would never make it to be a fighter pilot. I thought of joining the Marine Corps and got as much info as possible, then though, moved around a lot, to Europe, etc etc and never ended up doing it.
Since I am also Italian its obligatory service in Italy. But THAT is a joke. If I was gonna do it I was going to be Airborne (Para') but a friend of mine did it and came back with horror stories. Almost no training, in 10months they fired about to mags worth of ammo at broken targets, troops getting 3rd world nation diseases, food that wouldnt be served to your worst enemy.
To make a long thing short, I did everything in my power not to do Italian service. Luckily they have changed the rules and so because of constant university classes I could postpone every year and finally managed to get them off to take me off the list of potential recruits. Now, its finally totally volontary service and no draft is necessary.
However I follow everything military very closely, keeping up to speed on weapons, tactics, systems, technology, etc. I'm one of those guys in the movies that will look at the guns and stuff and determine if its possible, what model it is, etc etc
Best thing was I got paid both for being a student and for doing military service. After tax I made $1450/month.
Up until ten years ago, there used to be an obligatory year of service for all the boys of my homeland, but I'm friggin glad they abandoned that.
And then to think that I'm forced to vent the voice of reason in AI, a mere two years after the release of the flower power iMac. Ein fester Burg ist unser Gott. That's about it, my friends, love you all anyway.
<strong>...but they don't have the arrogance of US 'my-shit-don't-smell-ain't-I-something,-I-****-my-sister' cannon fodder.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's called confidence. You wouldn't want some depressed guy walking out on the battlefield. As for your other comments...well...you're entitled to your opinion, and your army fights for your right to say what you want.
-Mike
[/QB](...) I f**cking hate the f**cking army (...) inbred losers and insecure ku klux klan redneck shit (...) having the longest prick (...) stupid guys (...) my-shit-don't-smell-ain't-I-something,-I-****-my-sister' cannon fodder[/QB]<hr></blockquote>
(i'll just take a wild guess that you speak german)
dies ist nicht der platz um solche nicht-fundierte and niveau-losen hassreden loszuwerden.
wenn du etwas kontruktives beitragen moechtest, dann solltest du erst mal lernen mit mitmenschen zu kommunizieren (dies haben uebrigens die armeeangehoerigen der usa in diesem thread prima hingekriegt).
werde erwachsen und du wirst hier willkommen sein.
bis dann.
[ 08-25-2002: Message edited by: peve ]</p>
1) who does?
2) why?
3) where?
4) what's it like?
<hr></blockquote>
1. I do. I served 3 years and 7 months as a Military Policeman in the U.S. Army. I liked it but got out to try civilian life. Stayed in the reserves till I got back from Desert Storm, then I got out.
2. I lived in a small town where the options were: a) Factory job b) coal mines c) farmer d) odd jobs e) college f) military
So I chose military. Don't regret it one bit.
3. Went to 16 weeks of Basic/AIT (Advanced Individual Training) at Ft. McClellan Alabama, then 1 year at Ft. Huachuca, Arizona...beautiful place!, 1 year at Cakmakli, Turkey, and 1 year at Ft. Hood Texas.
4. Well..it helped with confidence,teamwork, love of country, and as corny as it sounds, duty honor and sacrifice.
Actually, I barely speak that tongue, but I thought German might be illustrative to my case.
Anyway, you are right in that I rant without having good arguments for my ranting. I have been thinking anyway. About freedom for example, so honored by MGossett. An independent survey, based on a variety of socio-economic factors has showed that my home country, Belgium, is among the 'free-est' countries in the world, The USA, need it be said, comes quite late in the list. For what is this freedom Americans cherish? Burning something meaningless like a piece of cloth with a few stars and stripes drawn on them can get you in jail. You cannot speak of the unmentionable, or you get censored before you can utter the words, and just to prove my case, what would be behind these stars: ****! ? You cannot curse on a record or some christian soldier will label you with them darn explicit lyrics stickers. If you have homosexual contacts in Texas, you are, in fact, comitting a crime. Now these are, admittedly, small examples, but they go to show that America's army has all but procured more freedom for Americans, and this in spite of the fact that the budget for defense is bigger than Belgiums budget for EVERYTHING.
Next, compare this to the Belgian army, which has never been able to defend Belgium from anything at all (I remember the 20th century, and so do my grandparents).
Next. I hope everybody here realises that history is written by the victor. Now everybody is, justly, focused like a maniac on the events of september 11th, but, horrible as they were, they are smallish, quantitatively in comparison to events in the Balkan, in Rwanda, in Sierra Leone, in Sudan, ...
Germans did horrible things during the Second World War, but no mention of America's deeds. Has anybody ever thought of America's concentration camps where they kept Japanese? And especially, about their two atom bombs that killed hundreds of thousands of people?
I agree, I am not so good at this, because I constantly am pervaded by the feeling that there are two, three, four ... sides to everything. Yet, my initial rant was mainly inspired by this feeling that I, and I imagine, many non-US citizens with me, have: the US and its inhabitants are simply too fanatical about their own truth. They are, in fact, radicals in their own right.
And to close off, has anybody heard of T.I.P.S, your president's luminous idea to pay millions of civilians for tips about their neighbourhood? And has anybody ever felt a chilling parallel to the KGB? And has anybody ever wondered what has become of freedom in such a system? What, however, can we expect from a president who claimed that there have to be limits to freedom?
<strong>(...) You cannot speak of the unmentionable, or you get censored before you can utter the words, and just to prove my case, what would be behind these stars: ****!? You cannot curse on a record or some christian soldier will label you with them darn explicit lyrics stickers.(...)</strong><hr></blockquote>
is cursing freedom to you?!?
what benefit do you get to curse in front of children or elderly? should they lose there freedom to be comfortable because of your freedom to curse?
<strong> [quote](...) small examples, but they go to show that America's army has all but procured more freedom for Americans (...)</strong><hr></blockquote>
they sure procured more freedom to you!
in wwII i think a lot of people in europe were kind of glad when the us fist supported france and england with money and then hit the normandie.
<strong> [quote]and this in spite of the fact that the budget for defense is bigger than Belgiums budget for EVERYTHING.</strong><hr></blockquote>
are you comparing the us with belgium?
<strong> [quote](...) Now everybody is, justly, focused like a maniac on the events of september 11th, but, horrible as they were, they are smallish, quantitatively in comparison to events in the Balkan, in Rwanda, in Sierra Leone, in Sudan, ...</strong><hr></blockquote>
i not going to talk about the "right or wrong" of these actions but the us had at least "reasons" and "goals".
there is no "reason" and no "goal" to blindly (there where even moslems in the building) kill so many people in that manner.
balkan: would it be better to have waited 'till milosevic had his job done?? what about the freedom of the bosnien???
<strong> [quote]Germans did horrible things during the Second World War, but no mention of America's deeds. Has anybody ever thought of America's concentration camps where they kept Japanese?(...)</strong><hr></blockquote>
did they gas 6 million japanese to death?
<strong> [quote]And especially, about their two atom bombs that killed hundreds of thousands of people?</strong><hr></blockquote>
read above: "reason and goals".
<strong> [quote]What, however, can we expect from a president who claimed that there have to be limits to freedom?</strong><hr></blockquote>
its all about "how much" freedom.
we are far to many on this planet that everybody can do what he pleases.
freedom comes with limitations.
it's the goal of a democracie that the majority of the people in your contry decide "how much"
[ 08-26-2002: Message edited by: peve ]</p>
I have to go to a new school because I screwed out of my TS/SCI clearance. Now my dream is win the big lottery and buy the civilian puke's house in DC who revoked my clearance and burn it down. After I give him about a 10 minutes warning that I'm coming.
<strong>some thread ey?
1) who does?
2) why?
3) where?
4) what's it like?
for me:
1) not anymore (did 17 weeks boot camp, 4 3-week "camps" and quit because it sucked)
2) i quit because the army is a joke here. very low-tech and not very realistic.
3) in switzerland
4) overall its not to tough and you get to see the country and shoot a lot of guns</strong><hr></blockquote>
1.) still serving Active Duty Air Force
2.) two reasons, discipline and to provide
direction in my life.
3.) Mcguire AFB, NJ
4.) I enjoy it. Never in my life I thought i would become a mechanic because I knew nothing about the mechanical side of things nor did I want to. Sure enough though, when I signed up and got through basic training, I went to text school to become a mechanic. To my suprise it's been a rewarding experience, and I'm better off now for learning the mechanical side of things.
Most people say the Air Force is the "Business Force." We're all about looking and acting professionally. We may not have to fall out into formation every day before work, but we sure as heck better have our boots shined, hair cut, and uniform pressed else we'll hear it from our peers.
Being in the maintenance field, there's only one guarantee. There will always be work to do. There will be times we have to pull 12 hour shifts for weeks at a time, or work thru the weekends, or worse yet, both. The pay is ok, even though we don't get overtime
I enjoy the chance to get to see new places. I've been all over the u.s.(just about reached my goal of seeing all 50 states) and I just got back from the middle east a couple months ago. Fortunately my wife is very understanding of what I do, and for that I'm very thankful
My fee was about 200 $ per month and i was practicing exactly the same job than in civil life, except during the school (one month).
I am a reserve officer now (something like captain or major) but i am now more in contact with the army ( i am too busy at work)
The military medical services in france are in very poor shape. i have discussed with some people i used to now here who where professional soldiers : and they are very sad.
Now the military service do not exist any more in France : it's a good thing : the way it was made was a non-sense (my personnal experience is that i have worked for free during one year to do exactly the same job that i made before). I wish that the french army will be in a better shape in the future. I am for a real professional army and not a ghost army.
2) why?
3) where?
4) what's it like?<hr></blockquote>
1) I served 2 yrs as an enlisted person in the US Navy, back between 1991 and 1993 (I would have also done 4 yrs after that in active reserves but managed to get out of it.)
2) I simply felt it was "my time". My father and many uncles fought in WW2 and I was just feeling like I needed a change of pace. I was out of high school since 1987, and working full-time, but my life wasn't really "going anywhere". But mainly I wanted to do my part, and was feeling patriotic.
3) I did basic training at Great Lakes Naval Training Center just outside Chicago Illinois for 8 weeks and did 4 weeks in an Apprenticeship Training program. Then I was stationned on the Aircraft Carrier U.S.S. Forrestal (now decomissioned). My duties included operation and maintainance of the ships engineering hydraulics equipment, like the aircraft eevators, anchor windlass, and ships steering.
I caught the tail end of the ships last Mediterranian cruise and got to see Spain, Turkey, France and Cicily. The ship was then converted to a pilot training carrier. I spent some time in Jacksonville Florida and then about a year in Pennsacola. From there the ship was to be re-fit at the Philadelphia Shipyards in Pennsylvania, but was decomissioned instead.
4) It was great since I've never seen so much of the world before or even after that. It really did straighten me up also, and helped build confidence. My only regret is most of my service time was spent in the US instead of overseas.
it was a very intresting read for me.
a) ending up in very wrong hands
b) dominating US culture. Of course the US has a recent history of cowboys guarding their newfound gold with a couple of six-shooters, but this, as we are now, one tends to say, 'more civilized', should no longer be the case.
I think of the surreal reality in some of the US' nicer states, where one is allowed to possess some 50 guns. Yet one is enough to kill a thousand people.
But I waited to reply, to get some of the heat off the lid. Because it is a discussion that will never end.