Apple unveils subscriptions for iOS App Store, bans links to out-of-app purchases

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Comments

  • Reply 221 of 561
    cmf2cmf2 Posts: 1,427member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post


    Sorry, don't get what you are trying to say.

    Apple *are* allowing people to set up content shops inside the App store. That's what this discussion is about.



    Apple's model is more open and less controlled, and takes similar or smaller revenue share than Amazon's or Microsoft and Sony.



    C.



    Apps are content, but they do not permit stores that sell apps. Video is content, but the only way to purchase individual movies is through iTunes (but they do allow subscription services). You're not following me because you are painting everything with the same brush and not breaking things down their into individual market segments. "Content" is way too broad a topic to even begin discussing this.



    I'm leaving this topic, the proof will be in the pudding (aka we'll see what happens).
  • Reply 222 of 561
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post


    Yeah.. you can buy them but you can't read them on the Kindle. The same way you can buy them using your iPad/iPhone browser without paying Apple 30% and you can read them. What's your point?!



    Probably wont be able to on the iPad and iPhone. The Kindle and Nook apps are probably going to get pulled since I can't see how they can comply and make money.



    Unless they assume that no one will buy via their apps for some reason. That doesn't strike me as likely.



    Netflix is an interesting question. I bet most folks download the netflix app AFTER they get a Netflix subscription. They sure don't want a recurring 30% hit. My guess is that the easy out is to only offer $95 yearly subs on the app. That's a whole $0.88 off the normal (month to month) price so it's a "better" offer and meets the minimum requirements.
  • Reply 223 of 561
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,458member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post


    Ein? They doesn't have app stores. And as far as I know, you CAN buy books in other stores and use them on Kindles and Nooks and they don't force you to take a cut.



    That's out and out wrong. Their bookstores on their devices are stores. We're talking about books, magazines, and whatever else that can be sold by subs, except insurance, Apple has denied that ability, as they should have.



    As far as you know doesn't count. Show some evidence. For Sony as well. Oh, and Borders too.
  • Reply 224 of 561
    My biggest problem with this is where do you draw the line? What about Netflix? Do they have to provide you with the ability to renew your subscription within the app? If so say goodbye to the Netflix app. Same thing with the Kindle app. Amazon is already paying 70% to the publishers. If they have to give 30% to Apple there is no profit in it for them.



    I suppose you can give the Netflix app pass because they are only providing a portal to their web content and nothing ever gets downloaded to the phone. But if that is the case, would other content providers also be able to get around this rule as long as they never store the content to the device?



    Does the Kindle app get a pass too? And if so why?



    This rule raises a lot of questions. I think Apple either needs forgo the requirement that content providers must provide an option for in app purchase, or more clearly draw the line on what is allowed and what isn't.



    *** I don't think Apple is being unreasonable here. If Apple brings publishers new customers, it deserves it's cut. Plus it costs Apple quite a bit to check each app for approval, so the 30% fee is necessary so they don't lose money on the app store. Also in app purchaces provide the best customer experience. However their are cases, like Netflix and Kindle, where in app purchaces just don't make sense. And I'd hate to see those apps pulled because of this rule.
  • Reply 225 of 561
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    The problem with your slippery slope argument is that you haven't shown that the slope is actually slippery, so your argument amounts to little more than an attempt to create and play on fears.



    That is pretty much how slippery slopes work. No one realizes it is slippery until it is too late.
  • Reply 226 of 561
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,458member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post


    Yes there is a Kindle app store. And you can buy Kindle and Nooks ebooks without paying Apple a cut.. use the device store!



    I just went to my Kindle account. I don't see any books being offered other than kindle books. Can you show us where those Nook books can be purchased.
  • Reply 227 of 561
    nasseraenasserae Posts: 3,167member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nht View Post


    Probably wont be able to on the iPad and iPhone. The Kindle and Nook apps are probably going to get pulled since I can't see how they can comply and make money.



    Unless they assume that no one will buy via their apps for some reason. That doesn't strike me as likely.



    Netflix is an interesting question. I bet most folks download the netflix app AFTER they get a Netflix subscription. They sure don't want a recurring 30% hit. My guess is that the easy out is to only offer $95 yearly subs on the app. That's a whole $0.88 off the normal (month to month) price so it's a "better" offer and meets the minimum requirements.



    Amazon cut is large enough for them to make money. Check the link I provided earlier.
  • Reply 228 of 561
    gwydiongwydion Posts: 1,083member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    As far as you know doesn't count. Show some evidence. For Sony as well. Oh, and Borders too.



    DRM'd fictionwise books can be read on Nook and Sony readers, borders ebooks with ADE can be read on Nook and Sony readers.



    Non DRM books fromk any store can be read on Nook, Sony, Borders or Kindle
  • Reply 229 of 561
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,458member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post


    You're wrong, you can buy DRM kindle or nook books at fictionwise.



    Yes, and they pay Amazon or B&N for that ability. But the books can only be used on the appropriate readers I.e. Nook books on the Nook, and Kindle books on the kindle.
  • Reply 230 of 561
    nasseraenasserae Posts: 3,167member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I just went to my Kindle account. I don't see any books being offered other than kindle books. Can you show us where those Nook books can be purchased.



    I was referring to buying Kindle and Nook ebooks on iOS using Amazon and B&N sites, respectively. This is the case now, right?!
  • Reply 231 of 561
    gwydiongwydion Posts: 1,083member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Yes, and they pay Amazon or B&N for that ability.



    The pay what? They don't pay nothing to Amazon or B&N. And no, epub ADE DRM books can be read on any epub ADE compatible reader.
  • Reply 232 of 561
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,458member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post


    Why should Apple get 30% of all my recurring subscription fees for Netflix simply because I signed up for the service on my iPhone?



    They are using their market position to take a cut of a pie that from my perspective isn't theirs. iOS only subscriptions, I understand. Cross platform? Not a chance. They deserve to be paid by anyone wishing to use their subscription services, but it shouldn't be a mandatory requirement for apps to be on the app store.



    The root of the problem seems to be their free apps have no hosting charge policy, but that's also one of the greatest benefits of the App Store. Apple is probably justified in wishing for some compensation for allowing these apps on iOS and on the App Store, but I don't think they are justified in asking for 30% of all subscription fees initiated from those apps.



    Apple hasn't said that you will need to get your subs from the store. From what it looks like from their statement, if you're getting your sub somewhere else now, you'll be able to continue doing that. They haven't mentioned taking away any abilities that are there now. I would imagine that we"ll have all of this cleared up some more shortly.
  • Reply 233 of 561
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mynameisjoe View Post


    Amazon is already paying 70% to the publishers. If they have to give 30% to Apple there is no profit in it for them.



    But it isn't really like this. We are talking about digital content, with no intrinsic value.

    All that matters is that publishers can make $X via Amazon alone - and will make $X+$i if that content is available on the iPad Kindle store.



    No publisher in the history of ever, has walked away from cash on the table.



    If Amazon's business model is broken, it will just need to be mended.



    C.
  • Reply 234 of 561
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,458member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post


    It has a browser



    You're not actually answering anything here. You can't buy books for the Kindle from anyone else other than Amazon. You don't seem to realize that you're killing your own argument with this post, as you can buy books through Safari on the iPad as well. That doesn't mean you can read them on the iPad, though there's a much greater chance of that than being able to read books purchased through the Kindle browser on the Kindle. That should be: no chance at all.



    This has nothing to do with the discussion here anyway. You're just reaching.
  • Reply 235 of 561
    peteopeteo Posts: 402member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Apple hasn't said that you will need to get your subs from the store. From what it looks like from their statement, if you're getting your sub somewhere else now, you'll be able to continue doing that. They haven't mentioned taking away any abilities that are there now. I would imagine that we"ll have all of this cleared up some more shortly.





    did you even read the article???





    "Our philosophy is simple — when Apple brings a new subscriber to the app, Apple earns a 30 percent share; when the publisher brings an existing or new subscriber to the app, the publisher keeps 100 percent and Apple earns nothing," Apple Chief Executive Steve Jobs said. "All we require is that, if a publisher is making a subscription offer outside of the app, the same (or better) offer be made inside the app, so that customers can easily subscribe with one-click right in the app."



    So if you do any subscriptions out side the app. Like hulu, mog, people, netflix etc...

    you will ALSO have to offer the same subscription at the Same or better price as an in app purchase. which apple will take 30% of



    This is INSANE!
  • Reply 236 of 561
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,458member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post


    Well, here in Europe they can be sued for forcing to use the in app system and not allowing differente prices



    You're saying a lot of things in this thread, but so far, none of them have panned out. Can you show us the laws that would be used to in force that?
  • Reply 237 of 561
    nasseraenasserae Posts: 3,167member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by peteo View Post


    did you even read the article???





    "Our philosophy is simple ? when Apple brings a new subscriber to the app, Apple earns a 30 percent share; when the publisher brings an existing or new subscriber to the app, the publisher keeps 100 percent and Apple earns nothing," Apple Chief Executive Steve Jobs said. "All we require is that, if a publisher is making a subscription offer outside of the app, the same (or better) offer be made inside the app, so that customers can easily subscribe with one-click right in the app."



    So if you do any subscriptions out side the app. Like hulu, mog, people, netflix etc...

    you will ALSO have to offer the same subscription at the Same or better price as an in app purchase. which apple will take 30% of



    This is INSANE!



    You forget this:



    If the subscription is initiated outside the app (like your website) then Apple gets nothing.
  • Reply 238 of 561
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,458member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    That is pretty much how slippery slopes work. No one realizes it is slippery until it is too late.



    Most slopes aren't slippery. While it's a great expression, it doesn't mean much.
  • Reply 239 of 561
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,458member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post


    DRM'd fictionwise books can be read on Nook and Sony readers, borders ebooks with ADE can be read on Nook and Sony readers.



    Non DRM books fromk any store can be read on Nook, Sony, Borders or Kindle



    Only if they are DRM free, which means, usually, copyright free as well. Apple allows that as well. It proves nothing.



    Show where DRM'd books that Amazon is selling in their Kindle store are also available from Fictionwise. If you can, then they are paying Amazon for the privilege.



    As someone brought up, the site has been bought by B&N, so it's an interesting situation. I didn't know they were bought, so this bears watching.
  • Reply 240 of 561
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,458member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post


    I was referring to buying Kindle and Nook ebooks on iOS using Amazon and B&N sites, respectively. This is the case now, right?!



    That's not what the post seemed to be saying. It looked as though you were saying that you could buy Nook books through Amazon,s Kindle, or kindle app, which as far as I know, can't be done. I've been using these reader apps since they first came out, and i've never seen anything like that happening. I feel that if it would happen, there would be plenty of articles written about it, so that we'd all know about it.



    What you're saying now is correct.
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