Only if they are DRM free, which means, usually, copyright free as well. Apple allows that as well. It proves nothing.
Show where DRM'd books that Amazon is selling in their Kindle store are also available from Fictionwise. If you can, then they are paying Amazon for the privilege.
As someone brought up, the site has been bought by B&N, so it's an interesting situation. I didn't know they were bought, so this bears watching.
Ejem, DRM ebooks can be read on Nook or Sony, Borders and Sony store books can be read on Nook. They're standard Adobe Digital Edition DRM epubs.
And fictionwise had epub books before it was bought by B&N
Ein? They doesn't have app stores. And as far as I know, you CAN buy books in other stores and use them on Kindles and Nooks and they don't force you to take a cut.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE
Yes there is a Kindle app store. And you can buy Kindle and Nooks ebooks without paying Apple a cut.. use the device store!
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
That's not what the post seemed to be saying. It looked as though you were saying that you could buy Nook books through Amazon,s Kindle, or kindle app, which as far as I know, can't be done. I've been using these reader apps since they first came out, and i've never seen anything like that happening. I feel that if it would happen, there would be plenty of articles written about it, so that we'd all know about it.
What you're saying now is correct.
My post (second) was a reply to the first post. He claimed that Kindle doesn't have an app store my reply "yes there is". The second sentence in my post was a reply to his statement that Kindle and Nook don't take a cut. My point is that Apple doesn't take a cut if you use the device store. I was implying that if you use the device (Kindle to buy Kindle ebooks or Nook to buy Nooks ebooks) then Apple doesn't take a cut and you can sync your account to iOS device and have all your purchased ebooks.
Sorry for not being clear but I think he understood what I was implying.
Apple on Tuesday unveiled its new App Store subscription service, allowing publishers of content-based applications for iOS devices -- like newspapers, magazines, video and music
The pay what? They don't pay nothing to Amazon or B&N. And no, epub ADE DRM books can be read on any epub ADE compatible reader.
I think you're reading what a couple of other posters are saying here and regurgitating it. I just went to Fictionwise, and I can't find anything about any of their DRM'd books being available for the Kindle. They have books for a MultoFormat, about which they say:
Quote:
Fictionwise MultiFormat titles are unencrypted eBooks that can be read with the FREE eReader application that you can download by clicking here. The eReader software is compatible with the following devices: Palm OS, Windows Mobile Pocket PC (Professional), Windows Mobile Smartphone (Standard), Symbian Series 60 or Symbian UIQ. You can also read eBooks on a Windows PC/Notebook, Apple Macintosh or an OQO Ultra Portable Computer.
And for Secure eReader ebooks, about which they say:
Quote:
\t
Fictionwise Secure eReader titles are encrypted eBooks that can be read with FREE eReader Pro software, which you can download by clicking here. The eReader software is compatible with devices running the following operating systems : Palm OS, Windows Mobile Pocket PC (Professional), Windows Mobile Smartphone (Standard), Symbian Series 60 or Symbian UIQ. You can also read Fictionwise Secure eReader eBooks on a Windows PC/Notebook, Apple Macintosh or an OQO Ultra Portable Computer.
I could't find a reference to the Kindle, except for this:
Quote:
Kindle (the Kindle will only read unencrypted MultiFormat eBooks from Fictionwise. Use the .mobi format.)
You make it sound like it's stupid, but just think. Whatever the cost to produce the thing, factor in a profit, that's C+P. Add Apple's cut, that's C+P+A, with A= 30% of C+P.
Still following?
Price can't be higher on the app store per the Apple rule aforementionned, which means inapp = C+P+A < O, with O the outside price.
By pure mathematics, O is now higher than it was earlier.
And since the reseller is NOT going to sell at a loss, and it's highly doubtful P<A with A, remember, equal to 30% of the whole price, you get (C+P+A+O)/2 > original price.
Prices, hence are higher on the iPad because Apple "won't let the publisher charge less on their own web site", Quod Erat Demonstrandum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TalkingNewMedia
Thanks, that made it clear.
Not so much. Let's try again.
No, lightknight pulled the logical equivalent of saying 1 == 2 via indirection. In reality C+P+A != O.
C+P+A+AdditionalSales == O. Apple is charging (A) 30% for processing and increased impulse buy opportunities.
How much do you think US, People and the Enquirer pay grocery stores to be placed right at the checkout line??? Same principle, drive tons of impulse buys for content that would far sell less otherwise. Premium shelf space (sometimes just regular shelf space) -- wait for it -- COSTS the manufacturer! Standard everyday retail operating procedure. And no, it wasn't the grocery store that chose what goes there to increase grocery store sales, it was the manufacturers that bought those positions because it maximized their sell through, with the grocer effectively making money twice on every transaction.
I am amazed by how shallow and ignorant of business many of the posters are. Not that I would expect a bunch of MBA's to debate things. But to equivocally state things as above and miss such basic business retail principles is laughably sad.
Corollary -- if you don't have knowledge, training or education and therefore don't "know", and then have limited ability to analyze a situation, don't make absolute pronouncements.
Imagine that Amazon is making $100M selling content through the iPad. Why would they stop doing so?
I doubt they make $100M but that's the whole point. Apple have been very clever. They knew a lot of people would buy the iPad as an ebook reader but for whatever reason they couldn't secure distribution deals with all the publishers hence the relative lack of content in iBooks. So Apple approves the Kindle App knowing it contravenes the App Store rules so Apple can say buy the iPad and you can read eBooks, no need to buy a Kindle Reader. So Apple sells millions of iPads. Now Christmas is over Apple enforces the rules and Kindle leaves. However with the installed base to use as a bargaining chip Apple can go back to the book publishers and say hey guys we have millions of users who want to read ebooks, do distribution deals with iBooks or you will loose out on lots of sales. The publishers will agree because sales of ebooks have accelerated much quicker than anyone expected to the point were the publishers have to play ball now. Very clever. Don't get me wrong I don't blame them, Apple wants that $100M for themselves not to give it away to Amazon. It should be a level playing field though, each ebook reader should have their own internal book store and the publishers should sell their books to all the readers at a fair price.
"Our philosophy is simple — when Apple brings a new subscriber to the app, Apple earns a 30 percent share; when the publisher brings an existing or new subscriber to the app, the publisher keeps 100 percent and Apple earns nothing," Apple Chief Executive Steve Jobs said. "All we require is that, if a publisher is making a subscription offer outside of the app, the same (or better) offer be made inside the app, so that customers can easily subscribe with one-click right in the app."
So if you do any subscriptions out side the app. Like hulu, mog, people, netflix etc...
you will ALSO have to offer the same subscription at the Same or better price as an in app purchase. which apple will take 30% of
This is INSANE!
What is your reading comprehension level? What does that quote say?
"when the publisher brings an existing or new subscriber to the app, the publisher keeps 100 percent and Apple earns nothing,"
I've also been saying that the details of all this needs to be worked out, and a quick news blurb isn't enough to do that. There will be contracts that need to be looked into, and they will be longer than the few lines we're seeing so far.
I think you're reading what a couple of other posters are saying here and regurgitating it. I just went to Fictionwise, and I can't find anything about any of their DRM'd books being available for the Kindle. They have books for a MultoFormat, about which they say:
And for Secure eReader ebooks, about which they say:
I could't find a reference to the Kindle, except for this:
So, no DRM'd books at all.
You should have looked this up first.
My God, I'm talking about Nook, Sony, Borders and others readers not Kindle, it has been clear that there is NO DRM Kindle compatible books, only no DRM books.
What is your reading comprehension level? What does that quote say?
"when the publisher brings an existing or new subscriber to the app, the publisher keeps 100 percent and Apple earns nothing,"
I've also been saying that the details of all this needs to be worked out, and a quick news blurb isn't enough to do that. There will be contracts that need to be looked into, and they will be longer than the few lines we're seeing so far.
mel, don't ask them to read. They don't want to because reality doesn't fit their internal bias.
If the subscription is initiated outside the app (like your website) then Apple gets nothing.
True, but the problem is they have to also offer the subscription @ the same price in the app so apple gets it cut. and you cant link to the out of app store inside of the app.
So 1) there is no instinctive for the user to purchase outside of the app. 2)Who knows if they will even know the can buy a subscription out side of the app.
Im all for apple getting something but 30% of subscriptions is ridiculous. maybe they should have required apps that have subscriptions have to be a paid apps.
I doubt they make $100M but that's the whole point. Apple have been very clever. They knew a lot of people would buy the iPad as an ebook reader but for whatever reason they couldn't secure distribution deals with all the publishers hence the relative lack of content in iBooks. So Apple approves the Kindle App knowing it contravenes the App Store rules so Apple can say buy the iPad and you can read eBooks, no need to buy a Kindle Reader. So Apple sells millions of iPads. Now Christmas is over Apple enforces the rules and Kindle leaves. However with the installed base to use as a bargaining chip Apple can go back to the book publishers and say hey guys we have millions of users who want to read ebooks, do distribution deals with iBooks or you will loose out on lots of sales. The publishers will agree because sales of ebooks have accelerated much quicker than anyone expected to the point were the publishers have to play ball now. Very clever. Don't get me wrong I don't blame them, Apple wants that $100M for themselves not to give it away to Amazon. It should be a level playing field though, each ebook reader should have their own internal book store and the publishers should sell their books to all the readers at a fair price.
That's a bit of a conspiracy theory!
For Apple it's better that Amazon stay. And Apple make money on whoever is selling books.
What is your reading comprehension level? What does that quote say?
"when the publisher brings an existing or new subscriber to the app, the publisher keeps 100 percent and Apple earns nothing,"
wheres yours?
"All we require is that, if a publisher is making a subscription offer outside of the app, the same (or better) offer be made inside the app, so that customers can easily subscribe with one-click right in the app."
Ye gods! Do you listen? Yes, you can get DRM free books elsewhere, mostly for free. But you cannot buy an Amazon DRM'd book elsewhere. This is what we're talking about. I doubt that Amazon, or anyone cares about DRM free books, because almost all are free. A few aren't, and those are from small publishers with very small circulation. No one worries much about that. But Amazon doesn't allow B&N to sell books on the Kindle. Amazon knows very well that people won't do that because they won't be able to use them there. That's not an issue. Nor is buying books through a website. People aren't going to use their Kindles to buy books for a Nook, because it's VERY unlikely they will have both.
The iPad, so far, is the only contrivance where major multiple sellers will be able to have a market. When real Android tablets come out, it will be true there as well. It will be interesting to see whether Google Books, which I also have, will be a big part of Android tablet sales or not, as Google has a very different way of working this.
Apple hasn't said that you will need to get your subs from the store. From what it looks like from their statement, if you're getting your sub somewhere else now, you'll be able to continue doing that. They haven't mentioned taking away any abilities that are there now. I would imagine that we"ll have all of this cleared up some more shortly.
Subscriptions are recurring until you cancel them. While I have other options, is Apple really entitled to 30% of my subscription fee forever because I used the iPhone app to sign up for the service? The recurring subscription could still be going through iTunes even if I switched to an Android phone at some point, or used the service on my computer most of the time.
That was the point I was trying to make. I understand them charging that kind of money for iOS only subscriptions as that's the going rate for anything iOS, but they seem to be extending the policy to cross platform subscriptions and putting rules in place that make it extremely likely that customers will go through the App Store to activate those subscriptions. I have a major issue with that.
My God, I'm talking about Nook, Sony, Borders and others readers not Kindle, it has been clear that there is NO DRM Kindle compatible books, only no DRM books.
I showed you were wrong about Fictionwise and the Kindle, now it's up to you to show some actual information instead of just making statements, which, so far, have been wrong.
So, go to those sites, and post quotes showing what can be read where. Believe me, if you can show that, I will agree with you.
Comments
You're not actually answering anything here. You can't buy books for the Kindle from anyone else other than Amazon. .
You CAN buy books for the Kindle on other stores
did you even read the article???
So if you do any subscriptions out side the app. Like hulu, mog, people, netflix etc...
you will ALSO have to offer the same subscription at the Same or better price as an in app purchase. which apple will take 30% of
This is INSANE!
Only if they are DRM free, which means, usually, copyright free as well. Apple allows that as well. It proves nothing.
Show where DRM'd books that Amazon is selling in their Kindle store are also available from Fictionwise. If you can, then they are paying Amazon for the privilege.
As someone brought up, the site has been bought by B&N, so it's an interesting situation. I didn't know they were bought, so this bears watching.
Ejem, DRM ebooks can be read on Nook or Sony, Borders and Sony store books can be read on Nook. They're standard Adobe Digital Edition DRM epubs.
And fictionwise had epub books before it was bought by B&N
Ein? They doesn't have app stores. And as far as I know, you CAN buy books in other stores and use them on Kindles and Nooks and they don't force you to take a cut.
Yes there is a Kindle app store. And you can buy Kindle and Nooks ebooks without paying Apple a cut.. use the device store!
That's not what the post seemed to be saying. It looked as though you were saying that you could buy Nook books through Amazon,s Kindle, or kindle app, which as far as I know, can't be done. I've been using these reader apps since they first came out, and i've never seen anything like that happening. I feel that if it would happen, there would be plenty of articles written about it, so that we'd all know about it.
What you're saying now is correct.
My post (second) was a reply to the first post. He claimed that Kindle doesn't have an app store my reply "yes there is". The second sentence in my post was a reply to his statement that Kindle and Nook don't take a cut. My point is that Apple doesn't take a cut if you use the device store. I was implying that if you use the device (Kindle to buy Kindle ebooks or Nook to buy Nooks ebooks) then Apple doesn't take a cut and you can sync your account to iOS device and have all your purchased ebooks.
Sorry for not being clear but I think he understood what I was implying.
Hulu and Netflix aren't publishers.
RTFA
Apple on Tuesday unveiled its new App Store subscription service, allowing publishers of content-based applications for iOS devices -- like newspapers, magazines, video and music
Most slopes aren't slippery.
Has the ice melted yet up there in NY?
The pay what? They don't pay nothing to Amazon or B&N. And no, epub ADE DRM books can be read on any epub ADE compatible reader.
I think you're reading what a couple of other posters are saying here and regurgitating it. I just went to Fictionwise, and I can't find anything about any of their DRM'd books being available for the Kindle. They have books for a MultoFormat, about which they say:
Fictionwise MultiFormat titles are unencrypted eBooks that can be read with the FREE eReader application that you can download by clicking here. The eReader software is compatible with the following devices: Palm OS, Windows Mobile Pocket PC (Professional), Windows Mobile Smartphone (Standard), Symbian Series 60 or Symbian UIQ. You can also read eBooks on a Windows PC/Notebook, Apple Macintosh or an OQO Ultra Portable Computer.
And for Secure eReader ebooks, about which they say:
\t
Fictionwise Secure eReader titles are encrypted eBooks that can be read with FREE eReader Pro software, which you can download by clicking here. The eReader software is compatible with devices running the following operating systems : Palm OS, Windows Mobile Pocket PC (Professional), Windows Mobile Smartphone (Standard), Symbian Series 60 or Symbian UIQ. You can also read Fictionwise Secure eReader eBooks on a Windows PC/Notebook, Apple Macintosh or an OQO Ultra Portable Computer.
I could't find a reference to the Kindle, except for this:
Kindle (the Kindle will only read unencrypted MultiFormat eBooks from Fictionwise. Use the .mobi format.)
So, no DRM'd books at all.
You should have looked this up first.
He's damn right.
You make it sound like it's stupid, but just think. Whatever the cost to produce the thing, factor in a profit, that's C+P. Add Apple's cut, that's C+P+A, with A= 30% of C+P.
Still following?
Price can't be higher on the app store per the Apple rule aforementionned, which means inapp = C+P+A < O, with O the outside price.
By pure mathematics, O is now higher than it was earlier.
And since the reseller is NOT going to sell at a loss, and it's highly doubtful P<A with A, remember, equal to 30% of the whole price, you get (C+P+A+O)/2 > original price.
Prices, hence are higher on the iPad because Apple "won't let the publisher charge less on their own web site", Quod Erat Demonstrandum.
Thanks, that made it clear.
Not so much. Let's try again.
No, lightknight pulled the logical equivalent of saying 1 == 2 via indirection. In reality C+P+A != O.
C+P+A+AdditionalSales == O. Apple is charging (A) 30% for processing and increased impulse buy opportunities.
How much do you think US, People and the Enquirer pay grocery stores to be placed right at the checkout line??? Same principle, drive tons of impulse buys for content that would far sell less otherwise. Premium shelf space (sometimes just regular shelf space) -- wait for it -- COSTS the manufacturer! Standard everyday retail operating procedure. And no, it wasn't the grocery store that chose what goes there to increase grocery store sales, it was the manufacturers that bought those positions because it maximized their sell through, with the grocer effectively making money twice on every transaction.
I am amazed by how shallow and ignorant of business many of the posters are. Not that I would expect a bunch of MBA's to debate things. But to equivocally state things as above and miss such basic business retail principles is laughably sad.
Corollary -- if you don't have knowledge, training or education and therefore don't "know", and then have limited ability to analyze a situation, don't make absolute pronouncements.
Imagine that Amazon is making $100M selling content through the iPad. Why would they stop doing so?
I doubt they make $100M but that's the whole point. Apple have been very clever. They knew a lot of people would buy the iPad as an ebook reader but for whatever reason they couldn't secure distribution deals with all the publishers hence the relative lack of content in iBooks. So Apple approves the Kindle App knowing it contravenes the App Store rules so Apple can say buy the iPad and you can read eBooks, no need to buy a Kindle Reader. So Apple sells millions of iPads. Now Christmas is over Apple enforces the rules and Kindle leaves. However with the installed base to use as a bargaining chip Apple can go back to the book publishers and say hey guys we have millions of users who want to read ebooks, do distribution deals with iBooks or you will loose out on lots of sales. The publishers will agree because sales of ebooks have accelerated much quicker than anyone expected to the point were the publishers have to play ball now. Very clever. Don't get me wrong I don't blame them, Apple wants that $100M for themselves not to give it away to Amazon. It should be a level playing field though, each ebook reader should have their own internal book store and the publishers should sell their books to all the readers at a fair price.
did you even read the article???
"Our philosophy is simple — when Apple brings a new subscriber to the app, Apple earns a 30 percent share; when the publisher brings an existing or new subscriber to the app, the publisher keeps 100 percent and Apple earns nothing," Apple Chief Executive Steve Jobs said. "All we require is that, if a publisher is making a subscription offer outside of the app, the same (or better) offer be made inside the app, so that customers can easily subscribe with one-click right in the app."
So if you do any subscriptions out side the app. Like hulu, mog, people, netflix etc...
you will ALSO have to offer the same subscription at the Same or better price as an in app purchase. which apple will take 30% of
This is INSANE!
What is your reading comprehension level? What does that quote say?
"when the publisher brings an existing or new subscriber to the app, the publisher keeps 100 percent and Apple earns nothing,"
I've also been saying that the details of all this needs to be worked out, and a quick news blurb isn't enough to do that. There will be contracts that need to be looked into, and they will be longer than the few lines we're seeing so far.
I think you're reading what a couple of other posters are saying here and regurgitating it. I just went to Fictionwise, and I can't find anything about any of their DRM'd books being available for the Kindle. They have books for a MultoFormat, about which they say:
And for Secure eReader ebooks, about which they say:
I could't find a reference to the Kindle, except for this:
So, no DRM'd books at all.
You should have looked this up first.
My God, I'm talking about Nook, Sony, Borders and others readers not Kindle, it has been clear that there is NO DRM Kindle compatible books, only no DRM books.
What is your reading comprehension level? What does that quote say?
"when the publisher brings an existing or new subscriber to the app, the publisher keeps 100 percent and Apple earns nothing,"
I've also been saying that the details of all this needs to be worked out, and a quick news blurb isn't enough to do that. There will be contracts that need to be looked into, and they will be longer than the few lines we're seeing so far.
mel, don't ask them to read. They don't want to because reality doesn't fit their internal bias.
You forget this:
If the subscription is initiated outside the app (like your website) then Apple gets nothing.
True, but the problem is they have to also offer the subscription @ the same price in the app so apple gets it cut. and you cant link to the out of app store inside of the app.
So 1) there is no instinctive for the user to purchase outside of the app. 2)Who knows if they will even know the can buy a subscription out side of the app.
Im all for apple getting something but 30% of subscriptions is ridiculous. maybe they should have required apps that have subscriptions have to be a paid apps.
I doubt they make $100M but that's the whole point. Apple have been very clever. They knew a lot of people would buy the iPad as an ebook reader but for whatever reason they couldn't secure distribution deals with all the publishers hence the relative lack of content in iBooks. So Apple approves the Kindle App knowing it contravenes the App Store rules so Apple can say buy the iPad and you can read eBooks, no need to buy a Kindle Reader. So Apple sells millions of iPads. Now Christmas is over Apple enforces the rules and Kindle leaves. However with the installed base to use as a bargaining chip Apple can go back to the book publishers and say hey guys we have millions of users who want to read ebooks, do distribution deals with iBooks or you will loose out on lots of sales. The publishers will agree because sales of ebooks have accelerated much quicker than anyone expected to the point were the publishers have to play ball now. Very clever. Don't get me wrong I don't blame them, Apple wants that $100M for themselves not to give it away to Amazon. It should be a level playing field though, each ebook reader should have their own internal book store and the publishers should sell their books to all the readers at a fair price.
That's a bit of a conspiracy theory!
For Apple it's better that Amazon stay. And Apple make money on whoever is selling books.
C.
What is your reading comprehension level? What does that quote say?
"when the publisher brings an existing or new subscriber to the app, the publisher keeps 100 percent and Apple earns nothing,"
wheres yours?
"All we require is that, if a publisher is making a subscription offer outside of the app, the same (or better) offer be made inside the app, so that customers can easily subscribe with one-click right in the app."
You CAN buy books for the Kindle on other stores
Ye gods! Do you listen? Yes, you can get DRM free books elsewhere, mostly for free. But you cannot buy an Amazon DRM'd book elsewhere. This is what we're talking about. I doubt that Amazon, or anyone cares about DRM free books, because almost all are free. A few aren't, and those are from small publishers with very small circulation. No one worries much about that. But Amazon doesn't allow B&N to sell books on the Kindle. Amazon knows very well that people won't do that because they won't be able to use them there. That's not an issue. Nor is buying books through a website. People aren't going to use their Kindles to buy books for a Nook, because it's VERY unlikely they will have both.
The iPad, so far, is the only contrivance where major multiple sellers will be able to have a market. When real Android tablets come out, it will be true there as well. It will be interesting to see whether Google Books, which I also have, will be a big part of Android tablet sales or not, as Google has a very different way of working this.
Ejem, DRM ebooks can be read on Nook or Sony, Borders and Sony store books can be read on Nook. They're standard Adobe Digital Edition DRM epubs.
And fictionwise had epub books before it was bought by B&N
You better go to these sites and show some information from them, because right now, you're just wasting everyone's time.
Has the ice melted yet up there in NY?
Mostly. But only on the slopes.
Apple hasn't said that you will need to get your subs from the store. From what it looks like from their statement, if you're getting your sub somewhere else now, you'll be able to continue doing that. They haven't mentioned taking away any abilities that are there now. I would imagine that we"ll have all of this cleared up some more shortly.
Subscriptions are recurring until you cancel them. While I have other options, is Apple really entitled to 30% of my subscription fee forever because I used the iPhone app to sign up for the service? The recurring subscription could still be going through iTunes even if I switched to an Android phone at some point, or used the service on my computer most of the time.
That was the point I was trying to make. I understand them charging that kind of money for iOS only subscriptions as that's the going rate for anything iOS, but they seem to be extending the policy to cross platform subscriptions and putting rules in place that make it extremely likely that customers will go through the App Store to activate those subscriptions. I have a major issue with that.
My God, I'm talking about Nook, Sony, Borders and others readers not Kindle, it has been clear that there is NO DRM Kindle compatible books, only no DRM books.
I showed you were wrong about Fictionwise and the Kindle, now it's up to you to show some actual information instead of just making statements, which, so far, have been wrong.
So, go to those sites, and post quotes showing what can be read where. Believe me, if you can show that, I will agree with you.