The US has the second highest corporate tax of the developed nations...I think Japan is the highest.
Not because we raised the tax rate but because the other nations have lowered theirs in an attempt to attract new business investment, etc. And it's working. Large US corporations are getting >60% of their profits from overseas. And may not be hiring in the US but they are, again, overseas!
This emblematic of just how screwed up the US tax system is. 16,000 pages of code. Most of it put in by corrupt (or the very least short-sighted) politicians working for special interest groups. With 271 millionaires in Congress what do you expect?
The corporations don't really pay 34% tax because there are so many loopholes.
There is about $1 Trillion in "loopholes" in the US tax code. Start removing the loopholes and at the same time lower the corporate tax rate so it is more fair for everyone not just the special interests.
Best
PS. When you really think about it, corporations aren't "taxpayers" they are essentially "tax collectors" for the US Government!
You have overseas profits you?d like to bring into the US but are choosing not to due to the high rate or have misunderstood the article?
If he had overseas profits as a PERSON he would be breaking the law by not paying tax on them. Companies get overseas profits by financial accounting tricks such as the "double irish" without paying tax as long as they leave them offshore.
These corporations aren't trying to bring this money home for our benefit or to be nice to America. They obviously need it here for their benefit. Keep your damn money oversees like you do with your manufacturing jobs. We don't want your 5%.
Maybe they aren't doing it for the benefit of the general US public but the fact is that if the money does arrive stateside, it will be either:
1) Invested in job creating business ideas in the US
2) Paid out as dividends to mostly US shareholders (where it will be taxed) and spent, saved or invested OR
3) Sit in corporate coffers in bank accounts in banks within the US (where it will be lent out by the banks to borrowers).
Any of the 3 above options will have a positive effect on the US economy and thus on the general public within the US at the cost of the countries where the money is coming from.
EDIT:
I also wanted to add that this is one of the biggest reasons our trade deficit is so bad. US companies are some of the most profitable and best companies out there. They routinely compete on a global scale and make huge profits in foreign countries. However, our tax code creates the incentive for the profits to stay in those countries and they never see US soil (and thus, have no effect on our trade deficit). Meanwhile, US customers buy ridiculous numbers of foreign imports (because they are cheaper) and retailers like Walmart (the world's single largest purchaser of goods made in China) send the money to companies in China.
Why not have this international trade work for us (and by us I mean the US general public) for a change?
Apple hasn't given any indication of what exactly it might do with its vast cash reserves were the US to allow it to bring more of that money into the country with a tax break incentive.
The above is the kicker. These corporations are claiming a 'social good' while keeping their options open. I wouldn't buy into that.
I really don't see a problem with this. I would rather the money go back to the shareholders so they can spend it on fast women, the best booze, expensive cars, cuban cigars and big yachts instead of wasting it on taxes. Becuse we all see what happens when you give it to the government.
I agree that this would be positive, even if it just got the money back into the US so it could be distributed to shareholders. You have to remember that the vast majority of shares in a company like Apple are held by pension funds, so if Apple were to pay a huge dividend (which is unlikely given what Apple have said) it would not go to the super rich as people like to imagine, rather it would go to people saving for 401k's. It's also important to remember that if companies did repatriate cash to pay a dividend, the person who the dividend is paid to pays tax on it.
What is not ideal at the moment is the amount of money sat around doing effectively nothing. The trickle down theory only works if the money is set to work to trickle down.
Thats basicly where Apples money is right now. They just want to "launder" it for 5% into the US. So no, Apple is not the "nicer" company while google is the evil monster, both of them try to make the most money possible
If he had overseas profits as a PERSON he would be breaking the law by not paying tax on them. Companies get overseas profits by financial accounting tricks such as the "double irish" without paying tax as long as they leave them offshore.
Unless he's a bright boy and he has his own trust of which he holds over 80%, which does those tricks for him
Apple benefits from so called "Free Trade Agreements" that do away with import taxes. Companies like Apple used to do quite a bit of manufacturing in the US because it didn't want to pay import taxes. So, the government caved to corporate demand and did away with these import taxes. Manufacturing went overseas, and all the taxes from wages and what not left with the jobs. Now the States and local governments are broke along with a good chunk of the population. Now, these greedy companies want to save by avoiding even more taxes? Ridiculous.
Let them keep the money there. They want to bring the money back here. They can't spend the profit in China.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloggerblog
They're not trying to avoid taxes altogether, they're trying to bring their money from foreign banks into U.S. banks without being penalized; otherwise, it would be more profitable to keep the money where it is.
Burn it would be good for the economy, since the less money still flowing, the stronger the Treasure
Yeah, but the incremental effect of burning a few billion dollars would be outweighed by the negative consequences of massive greenhouse gases being emitted and the cost of burning all that money.
Plus, its questionable whether a smaller circulation would be good for the economy (in fact the Fed is trying to do just the opposite of that).
Apple benefits from so called "Free Trade Agreements" that do away with import taxes. Companies like Apple used to do quite a bit of manufacturing in the US because it didn't want to pay import taxes. So, the government caved to corporate demand and did away with these import taxes. Manufacturing went overseas, and all the taxes from wages and what not left with the jobs. Now the States and local governments are broke along with a good chunk of the population. Now, these greedy companies want to save by avoiding even more taxes? Ridiculous.
The trickle down theory doesn't work. Why because nobody forces the rich to share the wealth. If a tax holiday is given, there will be guarantee that stockholders will get a dividend. Apple isn't going to give one.
The money is there in the first place because the government gave these companies another tax break in the form of doing away with import taxes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson
The trickle down theory only works if the money is set to work to trickle down.
Would it matter if anything they did (save for burn it) would be better for the US economy than letting it sit outside of our borders?
I would say that Apple is throwing its weight around, using that money as a bargaining chip. So, maybe the legislative lobbying effort will be successful with some economic benefits to some people, but it is still a form of corruption.
Rule #2. taxes, any taxes, even down to .000001% can go against rule number 1. There is no such thing as community good etc, workers health etc, if it decrements rule #1.
Any arguement about lower taxes etc is a red herring, it wont ever be low enough. Wages won't ever be low enough. Benefits won't ever be low enough.
At some point countries etc have to put there foot down and say 'this is the line'. Doesn't mean you get something for free, but, that also doesnt mean give in to every business (whoa's me) complaint.
What is your line in the sand?
Ok, everyone out of the rabbit hole and back to reality.
The trickle down theory doesn't work. Why because nobody forces the rich to share the wealth. If a tax holiday is given, there will be guarantee that stockholders will get a dividend. Apple isn't going to give one.
The money is there in the first place because the government gave these companies another tax break in the form of doing away with import taxes.
That's true, but in this instance, the rich (companies in this case) would likely share the wealth as the initial report says the majority of companies (though admittedly not Apple) bringing this $1tn back into the country would pay dividends.
Personally I'd rather the dividend earnings be sat in my 401k account than in some companies bank account off-shore where it's no good to anybody.
Comments
Not because we raised the tax rate but because the other nations have lowered theirs in an attempt to attract new business investment, etc. And it's working. Large US corporations are getting >60% of their profits from overseas. And may not be hiring in the US but they are, again, overseas!
This emblematic of just how screwed up the US tax system is. 16,000 pages of code. Most of it put in by corrupt (or the very least short-sighted) politicians working for special interest groups. With 271 millionaires in Congress what do you expect?
The corporations don't really pay 34% tax because there are so many loopholes.
There is about $1 Trillion in "loopholes" in the US tax code. Start removing the loopholes and at the same time lower the corporate tax rate so it is more fair for everyone not just the special interests.
Best
PS. When you really think about it, corporations aren't "taxpayers" they are essentially "tax collectors" for the US Government!
You have overseas profits you?d like to bring into the US but are choosing not to due to the high rate or have misunderstood the article?
If he had overseas profits as a PERSON he would be breaking the law by not paying tax on them. Companies get overseas profits by financial accounting tricks such as the "double irish" without paying tax as long as they leave them offshore.
These corporations aren't trying to bring this money home for our benefit or to be nice to America. They obviously need it here for their benefit. Keep your damn money oversees like you do with your manufacturing jobs. We don't want your 5%.
Maybe they aren't doing it for the benefit of the general US public but the fact is that if the money does arrive stateside, it will be either:
1) Invested in job creating business ideas in the US
2) Paid out as dividends to mostly US shareholders (where it will be taxed) and spent, saved or invested OR
3) Sit in corporate coffers in bank accounts in banks within the US (where it will be lent out by the banks to borrowers).
Any of the 3 above options will have a positive effect on the US economy and thus on the general public within the US at the cost of the countries where the money is coming from.
EDIT:
I also wanted to add that this is one of the biggest reasons our trade deficit is so bad. US companies are some of the most profitable and best companies out there. They routinely compete on a global scale and make huge profits in foreign countries. However, our tax code creates the incentive for the profits to stay in those countries and they never see US soil (and thus, have no effect on our trade deficit). Meanwhile, US customers buy ridiculous numbers of foreign imports (because they are cheaper) and retailers like Walmart (the world's single largest purchaser of goods made in China) send the money to companies in China.
Why not have this international trade work for us (and by us I mean the US general public) for a change?
Apple hasn't given any indication of what exactly it might do with its vast cash reserves were the US to allow it to bring more of that money into the country with a tax break incentive.
The above is the kicker. These corporations are claiming a 'social good' while keeping their options open. I wouldn't buy into that.
I really don't see a problem with this. I would rather the money go back to the shareholders so they can spend it on fast women, the best booze, expensive cars, cuban cigars and big yachts instead of wasting it on taxes. Becuse we all see what happens when you give it to the government.
I agree that this would be positive, even if it just got the money back into the US so it could be distributed to shareholders. You have to remember that the vast majority of shares in a company like Apple are held by pension funds, so if Apple were to pay a huge dividend (which is unlikely given what Apple have said) it would not go to the super rich as people like to imagine, rather it would go to people saving for 401k's. It's also important to remember that if companies did repatriate cash to pay a dividend, the person who the dividend is paid to pays tax on it.
What is not ideal at the moment is the amount of money sat around doing effectively nothing. The trickle down theory only works if the money is set to work to trickle down.
at least Apple's not sending all the money to tax haven... like Google.
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...1043146825.htm
5% is still way more than 2.4% Google's paying.
Thats basicly where Apples money is right now. They just want to "launder" it for 5% into the US. So no, Apple is not the "nicer" company while google is the evil monster, both of them try to make the most money possible
The above is the kicker. These corporations are claiming a 'social good' while keeping their options open. I wouldn't buy into that.
Would it matter if anything they did (save for burn it) would be better for the US economy than letting it sit outside of our borders?
Would it matter if anything they did (save for burn it) would be better for the US economy than letting it sit outside of our borders?
Burn it would be good for the economy, since the less money still flowing, the stronger the Treasure
If he had overseas profits as a PERSON he would be breaking the law by not paying tax on them. Companies get overseas profits by financial accounting tricks such as the "double irish" without paying tax as long as they leave them offshore.
Unless he's a bright boy and he has his own trust of which he holds over 80%, which does those tricks for him
Let them keep the money there. They want to bring the money back here. They can't spend the profit in China.
They're not trying to avoid taxes altogether, they're trying to bring their money from foreign banks into U.S. banks without being penalized; otherwise, it would be more profitable to keep the money where it is.
Burn it would be good for the economy, since the less money still flowing, the stronger the Treasure
Yeah, but the incremental effect of burning a few billion dollars would be outweighed by the negative consequences of massive greenhouse gases being emitted and the cost of burning all that money.
Plus, its questionable whether a smaller circulation would be good for the economy (in fact the Fed is trying to do just the opposite of that).
Can I get an Amen
The money is there in the first place because the government gave these companies another tax break in the form of doing away with import taxes.
The trickle down theory only works if the money is set to work to trickle down.
Would it matter if anything they did (save for burn it) would be better for the US economy than letting it sit outside of our borders?
I would say that Apple is throwing its weight around, using that money as a bargaining chip. So, maybe the legislative lobbying effort will be successful with some economic benefits to some people, but it is still a form of corruption.
http://freedomtofascism.com
Rule #1. Corporations are for profit.
Rule #2. taxes, any taxes, even down to .000001% can go against rule number 1. There is no such thing as community good etc, workers health etc, if it decrements rule #1.
Rule #3. when in doubt, see rule number 1.
Any arguement about lower taxes etc is a red herring, it wont ever be low enough. Wages won't ever be low enough. Benefits won't ever be low enough.
At some point countries etc have to put there foot down and say 'this is the line'. Doesn't mean you get something for free, but, that also doesnt mean give in to every business (whoa's me) complaint.
What is your line in the sand?
Ok, everyone out of the rabbit hole and back to reality.
Tax holiday? How about elimination of the unconstitutional income tax, see the free documentary movie:
http://freedomtofascism.com
oh brother....
The trickle down theory doesn't work. Why because nobody forces the rich to share the wealth. If a tax holiday is given, there will be guarantee that stockholders will get a dividend. Apple isn't going to give one.
The money is there in the first place because the government gave these companies another tax break in the form of doing away with import taxes.
That's true, but in this instance, the rich (companies in this case) would likely share the wealth as the initial report says the majority of companies (though admittedly not Apple) bringing this $1tn back into the country would pay dividends.
Personally I'd rather the dividend earnings be sat in my 401k account than in some companies bank account off-shore where it's no good to anybody.
oh brother....
You can try to avoid going down the rabbit hole, but sometimes the rabbit comes up and bites you on the keister.