Anonymous source says desktop G5 is dead

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
<a href="http://forums.maccentral.com/wwwthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news020129motorolaphp&Numb er=80106&page=&view=expanded&sb=5&o=&part=&returnt " target="_blank">http://forums.maccentral.com/wwwthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news020129motorolaphp&Numb er=80106&page=&view=expanded&sb=5&o=&part=&returnt </a> o=http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0201/29.motorola.php



Someone with the handle of "Wohlf" claims that Moto killed development of the G5 for Macs last summer. He doesn't cite any sources, but the info is distressing nevertheless. Also, there is a quote from someone in this thread that "in 1998 Galvin swore to kill the Mac" in retaliation for Steve Jobs killing the clones. I've suspected this for years, that Motorola was purposely stalling desktop PPC development in an effort to exact revenge on Apple for killing the clones. But one would think that after all the time that has passed, Moto execs have come to terms with the clone debacle and decided that they like Apple's business. All speculation, of course, for all I know Motorola has no intention of ever making a PPC for Apple that is competitive with x86 offerings.



Advance notice to those who whine, bitch, and complain about this thread; you don't like, don't read it! Upper left of your window is a red dot, click on it and the window closes.



Discussion is invited.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 62
    fluffyfluffy Posts: 361member
    So in all honesty, do you think that Motorola has been actively deceiving Apple's top management and hardware teams for the past two years? Since Apple is a PowerPC partner and must be intimately involved in the G5s development I seriously doubt that Mot would go to the trouble of an intricate fabrication of that depth. As long as IBM fabs PowerPCs there really is no danger of Motorola killing Apple by restricting the development of chips. Lest we forget, IBM is having the same clock speed troubles that Motorola is having with the PowerPC design.



    Besides, a $500 million write off is nothing for a company like Motorola. Considering the breadth of markets that they are involved in, I doubt the demise of cloning was anything other than a bullet point in a board meeting five years ago. In fact, the termination of MacOS cloning did not even rate a single mention in Motorola's 1997 <a href="http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/www.edgar-online.com/homepage;cat=business;cat=finance;cat=homepage;cat =research;ord=9930" target="_blank">10-K annual report</a>.



    I really do not think that a company that did $30 billion in sales during 1997 is so concerned about the loss of a few hundred million that they would resort to petty revenge, especially considering the revenue that the revival of Apple has generated over the past five years.



    [ 02-01-2002: Message edited by: Fluffy ]</p>
  • Reply 2 of 62
    airslufairsluf Posts: 1,861member
  • Reply 3 of 62
    airslufairsluf Posts: 1,861member
  • Reply 4 of 62
    Well maybe so.



    The main point, however, is that the G5 project has been terminated by Motorola. Did anyone read the link?



    If Moto killed the G5, then what's Apple going to do? I think they are doomed without a G5, soon. Otherwise Apple is going to be at 1/4 of Intel clockspeed, then 1/8, 1/16, eventually nobody will buy Mac hardware and Apple will go belly up.



    Also, Moki has heard nothing about G5 development from any of his sources. If the G5 is under development, isn't it odd that a major developer hasn't even heard about it?
  • Reply 5 of 62
    arty50arty50 Posts: 201member
    I remember reading a post a couple months back from Mr. NSX over at xlr8. If anyone knows shit about future hardware, it's him. However, he's very strict about not violating NDAs. Anyway, I believe the basic gist of the post was that Power4 technology was going to be disseminated to the masses. I read somewhere else recently that IBM was very interested in spreading its Power4 tech over a broad range of processors so as to milk as much money as they could out of its development. This could all get very interesting.
  • Reply 6 of 62
    [quote]Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg:

    <strong>Well maybe so.



    The main point, however, is that the G5 project has been terminated by Motorola. Did anyone read the link?



    If Moto killed the G5, then what's Apple going to do? I think they are doomed without a G5, soon. Otherwise Apple is going to be at 1/4 of Intel clockspeed, then 1/8, 1/16, eventually nobody will buy Mac hardware and Apple will go belly up.



    Also, Moki has heard nothing about G5 development from any of his sources. If the G5 is under development, isn't it odd that a major developer hasn't even heard about it?</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Umm, do you believe everything you read on internet message boards? All the posts I read of yours seem to assume that whatever was written was true. Weren't you recently very adamant that the G5 would be out soon? Please, is there a G5, or isn't there? And, no offense to Moki, but I really wouldn't say that Ambrosia constitutes a "major" developer.
  • Reply 7 of 62
    [quote]Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg:

    <strong>Also, there is a quote from someone in this thread that "in 1998 Galvin swore to kill the Mac" in retaliation for Steve Jobs killing the clones. I've suspected this for years, that Motorola was purposely stalling desktop PPC development in an effort to exact revenge on Apple for killing the clones.

    </strong><hr></blockquote>



    Pretty unlikely. After all, Motorola is a business, and as such, their primary concern is more likely to be making money rather than sacrificing profits just in order to exact some sort of personal revenge for long-bygone deeds.



    Bye,

    RazzFazz
  • Reply 8 of 62
    [quote]Originally posted by RazzFazz:

    <strong>



    Pretty unlikely. After all, Motorola is a business, and as such, their primary concern is more likely to be making money rather than sacrificing profits just in order to exact some sort of personal revenge for long-bygone deeds.



    Bye,

    RazzFazz</strong><hr></blockquote>



    You'd hope.



    Anyway, perhaps Moto did stop G5 devolpment... by handing it over to Apple.
  • Reply 9 of 62
    nonsuchnonsuch Posts: 293member
    [quote]Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg:

    <strong>Also, there is a quote from someone in this thread that "in 1998 Galvin swore to kill the Mac" in retaliation for Steve Jobs killing the clones. I've suspected this for years, that Motorola was purposely stalling desktop PPC development in an effort to exact revenge on Apple for killing the clones.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    That's stupid. How would Motorola benefit from deliberately designing slow chips? The slower the PowerMacs are, the fewer people buy them, and the less money goes back to Motorola. It makes no sense. Motorola is a business; a few executives may have been pissed over the clone license debacle, but that doesn't mean they deliberately engaged in behavior that would hurt themselves financially, not to mention damage their reputation.
  • Reply 10 of 62
    slackerslacker Posts: 127member
    How come you people keep falling for Dawg's BS. He constantly posts things like this to get people in an uproar. He points to some foolish he said/she said thing and you all fall for it.
  • Reply 11 of 62
    fluffyfluffy Posts: 361member
    [quote]Originally posted by Slacker:

    <strong>How come you people keep falling for Dawg's BS. He constantly posts things like this to get people in an uproar. He points to some foolish he said/she said thing and you all fall for it.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    It's a concern that many have had for the past couple of years. Besides, this is a rumor site... and this is a rumor.



    But no, I do not think that the G5 has been killed. And if it has, then rest assured that Apple has already begun plans for the transition to either IBMs PowerPC architecture or AMDs 64 bit chips.
  • Reply 12 of 62
    jcgjcg Posts: 777member
    Even without the G5 Apple is far from dead. OS X gives them more leaway and agility with respect to a hardware platform than they have ever had in the past. If reports are correct they have continued development of OS X for Intel, though without any commitment to a future release. It is known that it WAS in development when the project was called Rapsody (I have a copy of the CD's). The largest hurdle to convert the platform is native OS X programs that would only need to be recompiled for the new platform. The core programs for Apples success are making their way to achieving that ability, and should be out by the end of this year with a few possible exceptions. It might not be a walk in the park for Apple to do this, but the ability is there.



    Another point to make, IBM is still doing well, and they also make Power PC's.
  • Reply 13 of 62
    ryukyuryukyu Posts: 448member
    [quote]Originally posted by agent302:

    <strong>

    And, no offense to Moki, but I really wouldn't say that Ambrosia constitutes a "major" developer.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Maybe not major in terms of number of employees, but they produce some pretty noteworthy software.

    No, they aren't on the order of Adobe, but I wouldn't discount their significance.

    Besides, you can bet that he has more good information than most people who post to these boards.



    [ 02-01-2002: Message edited by: ryukyu ]</p>
  • Reply 14 of 62
    moogsmoogs Posts: 4,296member
    Gee, maybe this Wohlf guy is a *troll*? Ya think? Maybe? Possibly?



    His comments are only distressing if you're not shrewd enough to discern them for what they really are: bait.
  • Reply 15 of 62
    jimmacjimmac Posts: 11,898member
    Junky,



    This time you bought it. The steaming BS I mean. Remember? How does it feel? This guy comes from nowhere, has no proof. I know what you are going to say and there are many more plausible reasons for the G5 not coming to market yet. This is a crock ( probably spread by a troll ) and given Motorola's current state not a very likely developement. Yup, hook, line, and sinker! <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
  • Reply 16 of 62
    matsumatsu Posts: 6,558member
    Moki, if he is the prez of Ambrosia, could care less about telling anyone anything. Maybe he has some time to kill and likes to fvck around with panting rumor groupies, but any major higher up would (a) not care to discuss rumor with you, and (b) not ever disclose a damned thing even remotely close to the truth.



    edit: When the fvck did we start sensoring F-U-C-K ??? Fvcken ash-wholes...



    [ 02-01-2002: Message edited by: Matsu ]</p>
  • Reply 17 of 62
    Thanks to those of you who actually tried to discuss the possibility of the G5 project having been killed.



    In answer to some knee-jerk criticism leveled at me:



    No, I don't "believe every post I read". If you read my posts here, you will find that in some cases I am one of the lone voices of dissent, while the rest of you collectively fall for someone's BS (ahem, Dorsal?).



    I don't even believe that G5 development for Macs has been killed, but this seemed like an interesting topic and I wanted to hear other AI member's opinions on it. This guy who said G5 development is dead, he could be full of BS, but the problem is that we also have people like Moki and others saying that they've heard neither hide nor hair of the G5. Since some AI members like to keep up on current rumors, I wanted to hear their viewpoints on the rumor that the G5 is "dead". Is that such a bad thing, to desire another person's perspective on something? (BTW, I notice that often, when I ask for other AI member's viewpoints on something, I get flamed. What's up with that? Doesn't anyone around here like to think for themselves?)



    Finally, I think it is very likely that Moto execs dragged their feet on desktop PPC development to spite Apple. Some of you seem to think this would constitute purposely designing bad chips or something, but apparently you have no idea of how a large corporation is run. The executives who make the decisions, who are in charge, they don't do ANYTHING besides shuffle money around and bark orders at subordinate employees. If they wanted to stall desktop PPC development, then all they do is allocate less money to the PPC design team, and the result is that Apple gets slower CPUs. I don't have any information on moto's funding for their desktop PPC development, but it would be interesting to have a look at the funding over the past decade to see if there were any dramatic changes around the time that Apple killed the clones.



    Finally, I'm sick of some the BS from some people around here. It's as if you have nothing constructive to say at all, the only reason you post is to sling sh!t around. Like I said at the beginning of this thread, you don't like it, then don't read it. If you want to criticize it, then do so, but please debate the idea.
  • Reply 18 of 62
    Well put, JD. I think it would be interesting if Mot pulled away from desktop chip production and it wouldn't surprise me. But that doesn't mean that the engineer's weren't traded (or bought) by someone else and the R&D wasn't used. I firmly believe that Mot's roll in upcoming chips will be dwindling and they may take a purely R&D roll just to extract fab techniques for their other chips. Mot is good, but I think IBM have pushed technology a little further in new process techniques and mot is probably going to take a backseat in AIM for awhile to focus on the larger projects.
  • Reply 19 of 62
    [quote] I firmly believe that Mot's roll in upcoming chips will be dwindling and they may take a purely R&D roll just to extract fab techniques for their other chips. <hr></blockquote>



    Actually, if I understand what you're saying correctly, this might be a good thing. It seems that one of Moto's strengths lies in designing CPUs, for all the sh!t we like to fling in Moto's direction, the G4 is a truly amazing chip, and Altivec is the best SIMD unit (in terms of usability and ease of developing for it) according to many developers. Moto's achilles heel seems to be fabbing their chips; they can dream up awesome designs but when it comes time to do the mundane stuff, like making the damn things, Moto falls flat on their face.



    But what if Moto decided to focus on CPU design, and contracted out the production of all their CPUs to another company like AMD or IBM? Hmmmmmm.... Could such a setup work on the scale that Moto would need? I know this works for other companies (I forget which ones), but they are producing CPUs on a much smaller scale than the PPC chip.
  • Reply 20 of 62




    They show a G5 as well as a G6. I think the G5 is still a project in development. Either that or Motorola has no strategy as far as the PPC is concerned. Come on, seperate fact from fiction.



    [ 02-01-2002: Message edited by: Macintosh ]</p>
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