I came up with this idea recently for a duo-type computer, except it can act as either two computers or one more powerful computer.
The portable component fits into the desktop component, sliding into a slot somewhere on the case and connecting to the desktop with FireWire connectors or something else. Below are the basic specs and the concept of this idea.
Desktop Component
Single processor
100 GB hard drive
All standard ports
Superdrive
AirPort built in
This would have a slot that holds the portable component when they're connected. A button somewhere would eject the portable component when needed. When the portable is not in its slot, a flap would flip up, filling in the gap where it was.
Portable Component
Single processor
10 GB hard drive
1 USB port, 1 FireWire port
Modem, Ethernet
Under 3 lbs
10" - 12" screen
This component is really a subnotebook, it has no optical drive - the built-in Superdrive on the desktop component can be used for that - it has a small screen, and small hard drive. This should enable it to have very good battery life,
Both Together
Dual Processor
Both hard drives mount on desktop
When the computers are together, both processors work together as a dual processor computer. I could see an option to synchronize the portable hard drive with te big one when you connect it, but I don't know.
--
I tried to draw some examples in Illustrator, but alas, I am not good enough (either that or I didn't have the time to make them look any good - you decide ). I'll have to do it the old fashioned way - hand draw them and scan 'em in.
But, yeah, that's my idea. Whatcha think?
It's not EXACTLY a sub-PowerBook, but this is the best thread for it and I didn't want to waste a whole new thread on my silly little idea.
<strong>How about solid-state storage, about 15gb.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I can't even begin to tell you how badly I want this. How is it we have not seen more use of solid state storage... cost yes... but I'd rather not think about that.
First and foremost, let me say that I am absolutely delighted at the response to this thread. I thought for sure that interest in and hope for a sub-PowerBook had died with the new iBook's May announcement.
[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>This was one of my favorite discussions from the old AI. I'm happy to see you've resurrected it, Escher.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Thank you, Belle. I'm glad you enjoy(ed) it as much as I do.
[quote]<strong>The current iBook is a shade under 5lbs, and still much more bulky than it need be. Perhaps the next major revision (Probably some time in '03) will bring it closer to the 3lb mark.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Getting a smaller and lighter iBook was one of my realistic hopes for seeing a portable akin to a PowerBook 2400c. As we all know, the iBook (Dual USB) turned out to be just such a smaller and lighter and thus vastly improved iBook.
[quote]<strong>I think the days of the ultra-portable are numbered, because it's just not possible to fit the features people demand of a notebook into such a small and light package.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I would add one qualification to your statement, namely that it would apply only to the mass consumer market. I have no doubt that the Sony VAIO subnotebooks of this world will continue to enjoy brisk sales in the small circle of frequent travelers who need neither optical drives nor ruggedness.
<strong>So iBook 500 combo here I come with open arms </strong><hr></blockquote>
I sure hope you will for for the new 600Mhz with 100Mhz bus. It's cheaper too.
[quote]<strong>Basically what I am suggesting is that the "Digital Hub" concept in its purest form is a subnotebook: the Mac OS running on a machine with connectivity ports. 3lbs for this does not seem unreasonable.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Brilliant, Retrograde! Bus-powered FireWire (and to a lesser extent USB) connectivity is key to a successful subnotebook concept.
<strong>I'm not sure how large the keyboard can be if the screen is only 10.4 inches with a very thin bezel. Anyone have any numbers on this?</strong><hr></blockquote>
MacAddict: Your analysis of the current market and Apple's financial situation is sound. As for the size of the keyboard in a subnotebook with a small 10.4" screen, It's difficult to say. Even though I liked the Yu-Plan keyboard on my 2400c, it is simply no comparison to the more ergonomically sized, smooth-acting keyboard of recent 'Books. I didn't realize this until I actually started typing on the iBook, after two years on the 2400c. At this point, I think I could only go back to a smaller keyboard if I got Duo Dock with a regular keyboard at home.
<strong>If a 3 lb escherBook came into existence between the iBook and the TiBook, would we not pine for a 2.5 lb powerbook between the iBook and the escherBook on the product grid?</strong><hr></blockquote>
jutus: I'm deeply honored by your newly-coined term. Maybe that's what eBook stood for all along. How could anyone not love escherBook?
Also, some of you may remember that the codename for the PowerBook Duo 280c was Escher! What a nice coincidence.
<strong>I wouldn't be surprised if Apple manages to shave some weight and some thickness off the machine in the next revision. A four pound, 1 inch thick iBook would be pretty sweet, no? Maybe in a stainless-steel and white enclosure like the iPod's?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Amorph: I'm glad to see you follow up Belle's realistic assessment with a vivid description. But please make it brushed metal so that the fingerprints show less.
<strong>I looked at changing or removing parts.... So, if Apple makes a lighter subnote the main thing to go will be strength. It will be very thin (lose the CD mostly for space compression, not weight loss) and not as durable as an iBook.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Very enterprising, neutrino. I thought about ripping the CD-ROM out of my iBook. But I concluded that it wouldn't be easy and it's just so convenient simply to run off-the-shelf hard and software without any hacks.
As I've said before, the iBook's extraordinary durability is what makes the added weight perfectly bearable.
<strong>I came up with this idea recently for a duo-type computer, except it can act as either two computers or one more powerful computer.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
MacAgent: We actually tossed around such a concept several times in the old 2400 dreams thread. I don't remember whether it was you or someone else who came up with it. The idea is great, but I fear its practical realization is even more far-fetched than a relatively simple subnotebook. However, OS X advanced multiprocessing combined with some ideas from distributed computing projects could make it possible.
OK. Enough post by me already. That's it for my contribution to this thread today.
Lop off the top and half the side of a cdrom. Make it surface mounting. spindle hub exposed on keyboard plane area. small, shuttered/protected lens area for the optics. place it in upper right or upper left corner of the base, with the screen in the up position the disc shoudl slip under the screen'slower left or right corner, and have half of the cd-disc in front of the screen, half behind it. If worried about bumping/damaging, have a little radially-exendable cover that opens the 270 degrees from the corner and aroudn the disk after it is surface mounted - or maybe even just a metal rim that protects the edge for a stylish look.
I beleive that a sub-powerbook lighter than the iBook would really have to take on a more "tablet" idea. Essentially, a PDA...
But before you shoot me down I think you should think about where computers may be going and I beleive that they should be less desktop-bound, that you can have it in your lap or use it like you would use a clip-board.
3lbs? You would have to eliminate an awful lot unless Apple comes up with a hard disk and battery that are made of aluminum or cheese...
It should be resonably powerful but it would not need to have a terribly strong processor.
I really don't see a market for a tablets. They sound cool, but why would anyone give up their keyboard. I think we all underestimate it's utility. It's basic design, hampered as it is by the qwerty layout, has nonetheless managed to persist for 120 years. It's that good. Even a crappy index, middle and thumb typist (like me) can manage over 30 words a minute -- faster than all but the fastest writers.
It might be useful for looking at info, a kind of very interactive eBook, but you'll still want to plug in a keyboard when you have a lot of writing to do. Tablets for the vertical market -- used with easily navigated forms, tables, etc... make good sense, but pen recognition doesn't make a great substitute for a keyboard. Typing is just faster.
I'm going to try thinking outside the box here. Bear with me.
How about this: Since the problem is the keyboard, detach the keyboard. You're left with a 10" screen (Down, Belle! Down! Not a tablet!) a picture-frame stand, a Sahara processor, a RADEON Mobility (ATi doesn't even make the Rage 128 anymore...) and either a 5GB or 10GB Toshiba drive, and 128MB of RAM (upgradeable) and a replaceable, hot-swappable "Lion" battery. That would be hardly larger than the LCD itself. Shockmount the LCD and wrap the whole thing in Lexan for durability.
Now for the fun part, which I admit is radical enough that there's a snowball's chance in hell that Apple will implement it - but hell, it's fun. The supplied keyboard would be one of those one-handed chorded keyboards, attached to a 3 foot USB cable, with a thumb mouse. You could put the screen on a desk or tray table, or hold it like a book, and type with your arm resting in a natural position. You could put the screen in a sleeve or briefcase and keep the keyboard in your pocket. The major disadvantage would be the learning curve associated with the keyboard, and that's a big disadvantage. But if it was done right, it would be much more ergonomic than a conventional clamshell design, and you could use it standing up. Given the USB connection, you could also plug in a standard keyboard and mouse if you preferred. Maybe Apple could offer an ultralight keyboard as an option - basically the iBook model with a frame behind it and a trackpad.
Now, of course, this thing would be sync'd and charged over FireWire (AirPort would be nice, but it's a battery killer - and the LCD will already be taxing the battery). You could have a special folder on your main machine that would be sync'd up with the device every time you connected.
That's total pie-in-the-sky handwaving, I know, but who's up in the clouds with me? Anyone?
I would think that would be harder to hold and type with than a regular laptop where everything is together. The keyboard would have to snap into place on the screen when you want to use it as a laptop, as holding two pieces on your lap while typing could be cumbersome.
That's the one place where it would be a bit more awkward, but only with a conventional keyboard. With the chorded keyboard you'd just rest the monitor in your lap and your typing hand could be wherever you wanted it.
That's even worse, ergnomically speaking -- One-handed keyboards are too slow/awkward. One of the problems with the laptop/notepad dichotomy is that typing is clearly better, but it isn't always possible --ie when standing & holding your computer in which case a notepad is much better. But if the notepad gets too big, then it's nearly as much of a pain as trying to juggle a notebook. I don't see a useful tablet any bigger than a letter-size sheet folded in half. It wouldn't be pocketable (except in a lab coat where it might be most useful), but it'd be small enough to hold with one hand and write with the other. If it were made light, thin (a half inch) and durable, you'd get a useful information-gathering notepad device. Still big enough to view useful pages, but small enough to work like an old fashioned notebook.
You'd still need a PDA for go everywhere functionality. However, your mobile phone may soon absorb most of that functionality. Sony may be the closest to the perfect lightweight notebook/notepad hybrid with it's picturebook. The formfactor is pretty damn close, but the technology is wrong. It's too fragile, and battery life is too short for it to fulfill our proposed function.
What to do? Take the picturebook format. Juggle the keyboard layout a tad -- so that the letters remain full-size but the numbers, tabs, F-keys, etc... are slightly reduced in size. Let the keyboard swing right around (the same as the open pages of a paperback held in one hand) when you want to use it as a notepad. Some circuitry would recognize this mode and auto-disable the keyboard. Use a smaller 1.8" HDD (the 5GB is OK), with a bigger cache (so it spins less). Find a lower power chip (perhaps a new Sahara down-clocked a tad). Same firewire charging scheme as iPod. A USB port. A decent amount of RAM, and one of those new litium polymer batteries. No optical drive. Lightweight polycarbonate plastic, completely sealed against dust and moisture. All no bigger (or thicker) than a 5.5"x8.5" spiral-bound notebook.
It's lighter than 3 pounds, has to be under two. Uses iBook level procs/vid/IO, but with a smaller (less power hungry) HDD and display. The rest is all battery, the li-Poly can be molded so as to fill out all the empty space with energy cells. It's not fast, but it should run OSX, office and internet well. It's rugged b/c of a minimum of moving/openable parts. It has very long battery life (from 12-16 hours) And it's cheaper than a full-fledged notebook at about 999. I think it's doable. If an iBook costs 1299, the use of a smaller screen and HDD, the loss of an optical drive, and the resultant simpler internal design would make it possible.
But would you or anyone buy it? If it were no bigger than the pre-described spiral bound notebook, ran OSX, were nearly instant on, were rugged, and no more than 999? I think I'd still just get an iBook. I don't know what kinda midgets you guys are, but the iBook is small enough. Unless they can make it extremely light, small, portable, rugged, long running, and dual functioning (notepad & keyboard) I see no reason to get a sub-powerbook instead of an ibook.
Frankly I don't notice any difference between 3 and 5 pounds. Nor do I, spacewise, have trouble carrying an iBook size device in any bag that would be needed to carry a sub-notebook.
Comments
The portable component fits into the desktop component, sliding into a slot somewhere on the case and connecting to the desktop with FireWire connectors or something else. Below are the basic specs and the concept of this idea.
Desktop Component
Single processor
100 GB hard drive
All standard ports
Superdrive
AirPort built in
This would have a slot that holds the portable component when they're connected. A button somewhere would eject the portable component when needed. When the portable is not in its slot, a flap would flip up, filling in the gap where it was.
Portable Component
Single processor
10 GB hard drive
1 USB port, 1 FireWire port
Modem, Ethernet
Under 3 lbs
10" - 12" screen
This component is really a subnotebook, it has no optical drive - the built-in Superdrive on the desktop component can be used for that - it has a small screen, and small hard drive. This should enable it to have very good battery life,
Both Together
Dual Processor
Both hard drives mount on desktop
When the computers are together, both processors work together as a dual processor computer. I could see an option to synchronize the portable hard drive with te big one when you connect it, but I don't know.
--
I tried to draw some examples in Illustrator, but alas, I am not good enough (either that or I didn't have the time to make them look any good - you decide
But, yeah, that's my idea. Whatcha think?
It's not EXACTLY a sub-PowerBook, but this is the best thread for it and I didn't want to waste a whole new thread on my silly little idea.
Two Computers, Dual processors...
<strong>I like that Idea...
Two Computers, Dual processors...</strong><hr></blockquote>
I wonder how much the tech development cost will be ....
usually a Dual processor will have 2 identical processor, but a powerbook and a powermac CPU are never "really" identical.
and apple have to solve the problem of how to communicate between 2 processor problem ... with firewire ? USB ? PCMCIA ? Fiber Optics ?
LOL I can't start to imagine the cost of that machine ...
it would certainly make the digital hub idea easier... one small fiberoptic cable... to connect everything...
... that'd be cool...
<strong>How about solid-state storage, about 15gb.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I can't even begin to tell you how badly I want this. How is it we have not seen more use of solid state storage... cost yes... but I'd rather not think about that.
[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>This was one of my favorite discussions from the old AI. I'm happy to see you've resurrected it, Escher.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Thank you, Belle. I'm glad you enjoy(ed) it as much as I do.
[quote]<strong>The current iBook is a shade under 5lbs, and still much more bulky than it need be. Perhaps the next major revision (Probably some time in '03) will bring it closer to the 3lb mark.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Getting a smaller and lighter iBook was one of my realistic hopes for seeing a portable akin to a PowerBook 2400c. As we all know, the iBook (Dual USB) turned out to be just such a smaller and lighter and thus vastly improved iBook.
[quote]<strong>I think the days of the ultra-portable are numbered, because it's just not possible to fit the features people demand of a notebook into such a small and light package.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I would add one qualification to your statement, namely that it would apply only to the mass consumer market. I have no doubt that the Sony VAIO subnotebooks of this world will continue to enjoy brisk sales in the small circle of frequent travelers who need neither optical drives nor ruggedness.
Escher
<strong>So iBook 500 combo here I come with open arms
I sure hope you will for for the new 600Mhz with 100Mhz bus. It's cheaper too.
[quote]<strong>Basically what I am suggesting is that the "Digital Hub" concept in its purest form is a subnotebook: the Mac OS running on a machine with connectivity ports. 3lbs for this does not seem unreasonable.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Brilliant, Retrograde! Bus-powered FireWire (and to a lesser extent USB) connectivity is key to a successful subnotebook concept.
Escher
<strong>I'm not sure how large the keyboard can be if the screen is only 10.4 inches with a very thin bezel. Anyone have any numbers on this?</strong><hr></blockquote>
MacAddict: Your analysis of the current market and Apple's financial situation is sound. As for the size of the keyboard in a subnotebook with a small 10.4" screen, It's difficult to say. Even though I liked the Yu-Plan keyboard on my 2400c, it is simply no comparison to the more ergonomically sized, smooth-acting keyboard of recent 'Books. I didn't realize this until I actually started typing on the iBook, after two years on the 2400c. At this point, I think I could only go back to a smaller keyboard if I got Duo Dock with a regular keyboard at home.
Escher
<strong>If a 3 lb escherBook came into existence between the iBook and the TiBook, would we not pine for a 2.5 lb powerbook between the iBook and the escherBook on the product grid?</strong><hr></blockquote>
jutus: I'm deeply honored by your newly-coined term. Maybe that's what eBook stood for all along. How could anyone not love escherBook?
Also, some of you may remember that the codename for the PowerBook Duo 280c was Escher! What a nice coincidence.
See the <a href="http://homepage.mac.com/escher/PhotoAlbum5.html"; target="_blank">full size image</a> on my iToos Homepage or visit the <a href="http://www.apple-history.com/quickgallery.html?where=270.html"; target="_blank">Duo 270c</a> page on Apple-History for specs.
Escher
<strong>I wouldn't be surprised if Apple manages to shave some weight and some thickness off the machine in the next revision. A four pound, 1 inch thick iBook would be pretty sweet, no?
Amorph: I'm glad to see you follow up Belle's realistic assessment with a vivid description. But please make it brushed metal so that the fingerprints show less.
Escher
<strong>I looked at changing or removing parts.... So, if Apple makes a lighter subnote the main thing to go will be strength. It will be very thin (lose the CD mostly for space compression, not weight loss) and not as durable as an iBook.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Very enterprising, neutrino. I thought about ripping the CD-ROM out of my iBook. But I concluded that it wouldn't be easy and it's just so convenient simply to run off-the-shelf hard and software without any hacks.
As I've said before, the iBook's extraordinary durability is what makes the added weight perfectly bearable.
Escher
<strong>I came up with this idea recently for a duo-type computer, except it can act as either two computers or one more powerful computer.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
MacAgent: We actually tossed around such a concept several times in the old 2400 dreams thread. I don't remember whether it was you or someone else who came up with it. The idea is great, but I fear its practical realization is even more far-fetched than a relatively simple subnotebook. However, OS X advanced multiprocessing combined with some ideas from distributed computing projects could make it possible.
OK. Enough post by me already. That's it for my contribution to this thread today.
Escher
JRC
But before you shoot me down I think you should think about where computers may be going and I beleive that they should be less desktop-bound, that you can have it in your lap or use it like you would use a clip-board.
3lbs? You would have to eliminate an awful lot unless Apple comes up with a hard disk and battery that are made of aluminum or cheese...
It should be resonably powerful but it would not need to have a terribly strong processor.
It might be useful for looking at info, a kind of very interactive eBook, but you'll still want to plug in a keyboard when you have a lot of writing to do. Tablets for the vertical market -- used with easily navigated forms, tables, etc... make good sense, but pen recognition doesn't make a great substitute for a keyboard. Typing is just faster.
How about this: Since the problem is the keyboard, detach the keyboard. You're left with a 10" screen (Down, Belle! Down! Not a tablet!) a picture-frame stand, a Sahara processor, a RADEON Mobility (ATi doesn't even make the Rage 128 anymore...) and either a 5GB or 10GB Toshiba drive, and 128MB of RAM (upgradeable) and a replaceable, hot-swappable "Lion" battery. That would be hardly larger than the LCD itself. Shockmount the LCD and wrap the whole thing in Lexan for durability.
Now for the fun part, which I admit is radical enough that there's a snowball's chance in hell that Apple will implement it - but hell, it's fun.
Now, of course, this thing would be sync'd and charged over FireWire (AirPort would be nice, but it's a battery killer - and the LCD will already be taxing the battery). You could have a special folder on your main machine that would be sync'd up with the device every time you connected.
That's total pie-in-the-sky handwaving, I know, but who's up in the clouds with me? Anyone?
[ 11-15-2001: Message edited by: Amorph ]</p>
I give your proposal an 8/10 for coolness.
The chorded keyboard, however, would be a tough sell as a "subNoteThing for the rest of us".
You'd still need a PDA for go everywhere functionality. However, your mobile phone may soon absorb most of that functionality. Sony may be the closest to the perfect lightweight notebook/notepad hybrid with it's picturebook. The formfactor is pretty damn close, but the technology is wrong. It's too fragile, and battery life is too short for it to fulfill our proposed function.
What to do? Take the picturebook format. Juggle the keyboard layout a tad -- so that the letters remain full-size but the numbers, tabs, F-keys, etc... are slightly reduced in size. Let the keyboard swing right around (the same as the open pages of a paperback held in one hand) when you want to use it as a notepad. Some circuitry would recognize this mode and auto-disable the keyboard. Use a smaller 1.8" HDD (the 5GB is OK), with a bigger cache (so it spins less). Find a lower power chip (perhaps a new Sahara down-clocked a tad). Same firewire charging scheme as iPod. A USB port. A decent amount of RAM, and one of those new litium polymer batteries. No optical drive. Lightweight polycarbonate plastic, completely sealed against dust and moisture. All no bigger (or thicker) than a 5.5"x8.5" spiral-bound notebook.
It's lighter than 3 pounds, has to be under two. Uses iBook level procs/vid/IO, but with a smaller (less power hungry) HDD and display. The rest is all battery, the li-Poly can be molded so as to fill out all the empty space with energy cells. It's not fast, but it should run OSX, office and internet well. It's rugged b/c of a minimum of moving/openable parts. It has very long battery life (from 12-16 hours) And it's cheaper than a full-fledged notebook at about 999. I think it's doable. If an iBook costs 1299, the use of a smaller screen and HDD, the loss of an optical drive, and the resultant simpler internal design would make it possible.
But would you or anyone buy it? If it were no bigger than the pre-described spiral bound notebook, ran OSX, were nearly instant on, were rugged, and no more than 999? I think I'd still just get an iBook. I don't know what kinda midgets you guys are, but the iBook is small enough. Unless they can make it extremely light, small, portable, rugged, long running, and dual functioning (notepad & keyboard) I see no reason to get a sub-powerbook instead of an ibook.
Frankly I don't notice any difference between 3 and 5 pounds. Nor do I, spacewise, have trouble carrying an iBook size device in any bag that would be needed to carry a sub-notebook.