First of all, ugh! Using my iPad 2 and repliying to multiple users. I had written quite a bit but then switched to a new Safari window to look something up. I thought about copying the text in the reply box but then remembered this is the iPad 2 with 2x the RAM. I No longer need to do that. I came back to the page about about 60 seconds with only 3 Safari pages in play a d it reloaded everything. So nit happy about that. Anyway...
Mmmm... Sorry to hear that -- I know that was a big issue for you.
Maybe we (You and I) need to be less verbose
Seriously, we have not received either iPad 2 (next week, unless we get lucky trolling local stores).
When, I get mine, I will try and duplicate the problem and submit a bug report/feature request for mobile Safari.
P.S. Good to see you spending your non-school time productively
By next week, we will be an all iPad household -- 2 iPad 2s and 3 iPad 1s.
Yes, more beautiful. As I said, they did like several things about it. But they didn't think it was better overall, or that they liked it more overall. They thought is was competitive, and that in certain areas it had advantages, but that it lacked in others.
I don't subscribe so I can't read past the first two paragraphs which don't mention the price. But I can read the comments section and many on the first page react to the thought of paying $1000 for it. Since you subscribe, can you confirm the contents of the article?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevenfeet
Thanks for the clarification. I stand corrected.
Still, for me it was worth bringing up just to see this in the comments section:
Quote:
If you want to see if there is a tablet PC in your future just visit your local Best Buy store and try this HP model with Win7.
You will see its the best of both the PC and Iphone in a 12 in. form factor and only $850.
If only we knew! We could have seen the future of tablet computing a year and a half ago at Best Buy and we wouldn't have had to spend all this time waiting for and analyzing the iPad and iPad2...
But I didn't even mention the hinge magnets; solipsism had me exactly right.
In any case, my own iPad 2 hasn't arrived yet, so I was just briefly using a friend's. His seemed a little awkward but generally firm. That could be a function of my grip at the time I was using it (left-handed, but I'm a righty) or just differences in magnet strengths. After all, some iPad's have the LCD bleed issue but most don't. If (as solipsism mentioned) the 'feature' is unintentional, then that would explain why it's highly variable (assuming it is).
"If you walk into an Apple store on a typical day, the place isn't packed with fandrois. It's crowded by ordinary folks who buy Apple stuff because it works for them enough that their geek friend doesn't have to explain it to them."
So true! I am not a geek. I have no interest -and when it gets right down to it, I have no head for what goes on under the "hood." I have learned and am learning as the years go by, but I am still at a level where I can grasp only the most broadly defined concepts. But that is enough, as it turns out.
My first computer was a Zeos (forget the model etc.) in 1993, which meant that I could forever leave behind the C:/ thank God! Using windows, however, did not mean that I could leave behind the need to have geek friends help me, again and again, to get things to work properly. But in 1995 I bought my first Mac and was amazed that computers could actually work as advertised.
Today I have a 2nd generation iPod and I am using an iMac with a G5 chip. This year I will be upgrading my computer to an iMac or a PowerBook or a MacBook Air -choices, choices, choices and ultimately I will be getting an iPad2. We have come a long way baby!
That used to be the slogan used by PCs about Macs. And it was true, but the Mac was till the better machine and had the better OS. So what's your point?
"If you walk into an Apple store on a typical day, the place isn't packed with fandrois. It's crowded by ordinary folks who buy Apple stuff because it works for them enough that their geek friend doesn't have to explain it to them."
So true! I am not a geek. I have no interest -and when it gets right down to it, I have no head for what goes on under the "hood." I have learned and am learning as the years go by, but I am still at a level where I can grasp only the most broadly defined concepts. But that is enough, as it turns out.
My first computer was a Zeos (forget the model etc.) in 1993, which meant that I could forever leave behind the C:/ thank God! Using windows, however, did not mean that I could leave behind the need to have geek friends help me, again and again, to get things to work properly. But in 1995 I bought my first Mac and was amazed that computers could actually work as advertised.
Today I have a 2nd generation iPod and I am using an iMac with a G5 chip. This year I will be upgrading my computer to an iMac or a PowerBook or a MacBook Air -choices, choices, choices and ultimately I will be getting an iPad2. We have come a long way baby!
Let's not forget that since you started buying Macs, the quality of ALL computers has increased significantly. Even since you got your iMac G5, Microsoft has released two new versions of Windows, with the latest one being extremely stable and easy to use.
That used to be the slogan used by PCs about Macs. And it was true, but the Mac was till the better machine and had the better OS. So what's your point?
I think his point is that the Xoom tablet is slower and costs more than the iPad 2. Which it is and does.
I'd like to add that in this case, the iPad 2 is also the better machine and has the better tablet OS. The fact that it's selling out in many locations while people couldn't care less about Android tablets proves that. And let's not even get into form factor here.
Hell, Honeycomb is a mess. When Google gets around to patching all of the crash bugs, they still have the fact that many users find it to be way too complicated.
The analyst calls the Honeycomb interface "extremely complicated and confusing, and does not come naturally ? you really have to work on it," citing conversations with Xoom owners.
Let's not forget that since you started buying Macs, the quality of ALL computers has increased significantly. Even since you got your iMac G5, Microsoft has released two new versions of Windows, with the latest one being extremely stable and easy to use.
I'm using Windows 7 as I type this. I love it (you have to understand I was stuck with Vista before this) and it is definitely more stable than many previous versions of Windows (XP excluded, since it was by far the most stable in my experience). But easy to use? No. Easier than previous versions, yes. But easy? Compared to my wife's Mac? Not even close, IMO.
But, but the Xoom has more ram, how could the ipad run circles around it?
Seriously , for some reasons some geeks out there have a ram fetish. Maybe they got beaten by ram simms when they were young...
Fyi paging into SSD barely slow down the system compare to paging into a HD. This is why devices with SSD dont slow down to a crowl when they run out of memory.
I think his point is that the Xoom tablet is slower and costs more than the iPad 2. Which it is and does.
Hell, Honeycomb is a mess. When Google gets around to patching all of the crash bugs, they still have the fact that many users find it to be way too complicated.
Motorola was pretty much forced to launch a bunch of half-finished products --- because they were splitting the company into 2 in the stock market. The split would have never taken place if those launches weren't announced.
Whether he is right or not, quoting financial analysts talking out of their ass isn't worth shit.
Quoting financial analysts who have gotten their information directly from Xoom users is worth something. It may not paint the complete picture but it does echo what many other users have said and it gives some idea as to why the Xoom tablet is selling like shit.
Of course, judging by your other argumentative posts in this thread, my guess is you're not after any real truth or facts. You just want to argue your flaccid stance and bicker about pointless insipid bullshit, like who really wrote some article nobody read on some techgeek website only ubernerds care about.
I'm a truly evil and sadistic person who takes great delight in the misery and suffering of others and I actually spent about 30-45 minutes last night at a few different android and xoom forums just browsing, reading and thoroughly enjoying myself. It was pure comedy gold, much better than any tv sitcom. Some of those people are truly delusional, bordering on mentally ill, with a few of them being truly psychotic.
I learned that it's not necessary for any game to have more than 25 FPS, as the human eye can't detect more than that anyway.
I also learned that the smoothness and better response of iOS is an over hyped feature since people don't coat their floors with wax and slide around on it. Hence, smoothness and having no lag is a useless feature.
I also learned that engadget, anandtech and a bunch of other sites are really paid shills for Apple and that there is a huge conspiracy taking place against Android.
I could go on, but if anybody is interested in a few laughs and LOLs, then head on over to any of those android and xoom forums and read for yourself. There's also massive infighting taking place, with a few people there recognizing reality and admitting that the iPad is superior VS those who refuse to accept that fact. If I had just spent $800 on a buggy piece of junk, I might be upset too.
On the subject of framerates: I remember reading an article?sorry I can't link to it, but this was in the Dead Tree Era??about an experiment Stephen Spielberg conducted. Of course everybody knows 24 fps is inadequate for rapid movement, so he wanted to see what was really the optimum framerate for action movies.
He filmed a bunch of supposedly exciting footage?battle scenes, flying, roller-coaster rides, etc.?at a variety of framerates. Then he showed them to a number of volunteers after wiring them up like a polygraph?heart rate, respiration, skin galvanic response. He found that people's measurable "excitement" did indeed increase with framerate, presumably because it seemed more realistic or involving, until he hit 60 fps. After that there was no further improvement.
As a result of that, I consider it an observed scientific fact that 60 fps is the most the human visual system can handle, and anything over that is overkill?or just one of those meaningless specs that geeks like to quote.
Of course, I could be wrong. When stereo was invented, the brain wasn't supposed to be able to detect different arrival times at each ear, just differing loudness. That turned out to be baloney. Also, the TV I'm looking at right now actually has 1920 X 1080 pixels on the screen. (That was a prerequisite for me, so I'm a very late adopter on HDTV.) In this area we have five 1080i channels and five 720p channels. Doing the arithmetic, from this distance I shouldn't be able to resolve 720 lines, let alone 1080, but I can tell the 720p channels appear dull and lifeless compared with the 1080i ones. I can't explain it, but it's an observed fact for me.
I think someone should revisit Spielberg's experiment in the electronic era. A question that occurs to me is: these new 3D TVs think they need 120 Hz for 3D, but I wonder if alternating 30 fps per eye would add up to a perceived 60 fps?
I agree, I don't have much interest in comparisons to Xoom--it is only half baked and probably only mentioned by Anand to have another graphics processing data point.
But, my question is this: What does this all mean for the mythical Retina Display summer update? If Apple was able to produce (in quantity) the double resolution/quadruple pixel count screen and add an HD line to the iPod2 without any other internal changes, how will it affect performance? I don't know enough about these things to speculate myself, but I am curious. Would it drag the iPad2's graphics performance back down or would it only affect certain functions?
I understand drawing triangles is drawing triangles no regardless of pixel count, but the contention that Xoom should get a break because of its pixel count has me wondering...
You make an excellent point. I think they've been making "retina" displays for a long time now. It all has to do with "yield". So they try to make 'retina' screens for the iPad... They only get one out of 10, per say. Bad yield right... no. They take what they can from that and put it in the iPhone or iPod touch.
They have been building them for a long time now. The so called 'rejects' end up in the phone or touch. It gets more complicated than that, but I believe they are building up supply. Who knows, by the time they release it, it may be a 9 out of 10 yield....
I think you mean 30 fps. Besides, the ideal thing is that the average frame rate should be around 40fps, that way you know that when you get to a very action-packed part of a game (in other words, lots of explosions), the frame rate won't drop below 24fps.
Did you read the same post? He was mocking the folks that wrote that.
Comments
First of all, ugh! Using my iPad 2 and repliying to multiple users. I had written quite a bit but then switched to a new Safari window to look something up. I thought about copying the text in the reply box but then remembered this is the iPad 2 with 2x the RAM. I No longer need to do that. I came back to the page about about 60 seconds with only 3 Safari pages in play a d it reloaded everything. So nit happy about that. Anyway...
Mmmm... Sorry to hear that -- I know that was a big issue for you.
Maybe we (You and I) need to be less verbose
Seriously, we have not received either iPad 2 (next week, unless we get lucky trolling local stores).
When, I get mine, I will try and duplicate the problem and submit a bug report/feature request for mobile Safari.
P.S. Good to see you spending your non-school time productively
By next week, we will be an all iPad household -- 2 iPad 2s and 3 iPad 1s.
.
THEY did the review, Anand wrote it.
"In my opinion it?s more beautiful than anything else on the market today - including Apple?s iOS." http://www.anandtech.com/show/3982/w...one-7-review/1
OT anyhow.
Nice device, that ipad2
Yes, more beautiful. As I said, they did like several things about it. But they didn't think it was better overall, or that they liked it more overall. They thought is was competitive, and that in certain areas it had advantages, but that it lacked in others.
My reasoning is if there is no competition then the innovation my start to lag.
Yup, just like all that innovation that happened before the iPod, iPhone and iPad
This is the lamest meme running and I'm so sick of it...
iPad 2 xooms past the competition.
I see what you did there.
OK Mel, I went back to see if I could find the original WSJ article and here it is from Jan. 5, 2010:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...Tabs%3Darticle
I don't subscribe so I can't read past the first two paragraphs which don't mention the price. But I can read the comments section and many on the first page react to the thought of paying $1000 for it. Since you subscribe, can you confirm the contents of the article?
Thanks for the clarification. I stand corrected.
Still, for me it was worth bringing up just to see this in the comments section:
If you want to see if there is a tablet PC in your future just visit your local Best Buy store and try this HP model with Win7.
You will see its the best of both the PC and Iphone in a 12 in. form factor and only $850.
If only we knew! We could have seen the future of tablet computing a year and a half ago at Best Buy and we wouldn't have had to spend all this time waiting for and analyzing the iPad and iPad2...
I don't know what he meant. I know what he wrote.
But I didn't even mention the hinge magnets; solipsism had me exactly right.
In any case, my own iPad 2 hasn't arrived yet, so I was just briefly using a friend's. His seemed a little awkward but generally firm. That could be a function of my grip at the time I was using it (left-handed, but I'm a righty) or just differences in magnet strengths. After all, some iPad's have the LCD bleed issue but most don't. If (as solipsism mentioned) the 'feature' is unintentional, then that would explain why it's highly variable (assuming it is).
So true! I am not a geek. I have no interest -and when it gets right down to it, I have no head for what goes on under the "hood." I have learned and am learning as the years go by, but I am still at a level where I can grasp only the most broadly defined concepts. But that is enough, as it turns out.
My first computer was a Zeos (forget the model etc.) in 1993, which meant that I could forever leave behind the C:/ thank God! Using windows, however, did not mean that I could leave behind the need to have geek friends help me, again and again, to get things to work properly. But in 1995 I bought my first Mac and was amazed that computers could actually work as advertised.
Today I have a 2nd generation iPod and I am using an iMac with a G5 chip. This year I will be upgrading my computer to an iMac or a PowerBook or a MacBook Air -choices, choices, choices and ultimately I will be getting an iPad2. We have come a long way baby!
Costs more, runs slower.
Now there's a great ad slogan.....
That used to be the slogan used by PCs about Macs. And it was true, but the Mac was till the better machine and had the better OS. So what's your point?
"If you walk into an Apple store on a typical day, the place isn't packed with fandrois. It's crowded by ordinary folks who buy Apple stuff because it works for them enough that their geek friend doesn't have to explain it to them."
So true! I am not a geek. I have no interest -and when it gets right down to it, I have no head for what goes on under the "hood." I have learned and am learning as the years go by, but I am still at a level where I can grasp only the most broadly defined concepts. But that is enough, as it turns out.
My first computer was a Zeos (forget the model etc.) in 1993, which meant that I could forever leave behind the C:/ thank God! Using windows, however, did not mean that I could leave behind the need to have geek friends help me, again and again, to get things to work properly. But in 1995 I bought my first Mac and was amazed that computers could actually work as advertised.
Today I have a 2nd generation iPod and I am using an iMac with a G5 chip. This year I will be upgrading my computer to an iMac or a PowerBook or a MacBook Air -choices, choices, choices and ultimately I will be getting an iPad2. We have come a long way baby!
Let's not forget that since you started buying Macs, the quality of ALL computers has increased significantly. Even since you got your iMac G5, Microsoft has released two new versions of Windows, with the latest one being extremely stable and easy to use.
That used to be the slogan used by PCs about Macs. And it was true, but the Mac was till the better machine and had the better OS. So what's your point?
I think his point is that the Xoom tablet is slower and costs more than the iPad 2. Which it is and does.
I'd like to add that in this case, the iPad 2 is also the better machine and has the better tablet OS. The fact that it's selling out in many locations while people couldn't care less about Android tablets proves that. And let's not even get into form factor here.
Hell, Honeycomb is a mess. When Google gets around to patching all of the crash bugs, they still have the fact that many users find it to be way too complicated.
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/articl...comb_is_a_mess
The analyst calls the Honeycomb interface "extremely complicated and confusing, and does not come naturally ? you really have to work on it," citing conversations with Xoom owners.
Let's not forget that since you started buying Macs, the quality of ALL computers has increased significantly. Even since you got your iMac G5, Microsoft has released two new versions of Windows, with the latest one being extremely stable and easy to use.
I'm using Windows 7 as I type this. I love it (you have to understand I was stuck with Vista before this) and it is definitely more stable than many previous versions of Windows (XP excluded, since it was by far the most stable in my experience). But easy to use? No. Easier than previous versions, yes. But easy? Compared to my wife's Mac? Not even close, IMO.
Seriously , for some reasons some geeks out there have a ram fetish. Maybe they got beaten by ram simms when they were young...
Fyi paging into SSD barely slow down the system compare to paging into a HD. This is why devices with SSD dont slow down to a crowl when they run out of memory.
I think his point is that the Xoom tablet is slower and costs more than the iPad 2. Which it is and does.
Hell, Honeycomb is a mess. When Google gets around to patching all of the crash bugs, they still have the fact that many users find it to be way too complicated.
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/articl...comb_is_a_mess
Whether he is right or not, quoting financial analysts talking out of their ass isn't worth shit.
Very funny. If it were only true.
Did you just come here to troll. I'm the wrong person to troll. Do it again, and you're gone.
I wish you and the other moderators would use that hammer with all trolls, not just those that happen to tick you off or wound your personal pride.
In other words, be consistent. It helps AI's credibility.
Whether he is right or not, quoting financial analysts talking out of their ass isn't worth shit.
Quoting financial analysts who have gotten their information directly from Xoom users is worth something. It may not paint the complete picture but it does echo what many other users have said and it gives some idea as to why the Xoom tablet is selling like shit.
Of course, judging by your other argumentative posts in this thread, my guess is you're not after any real truth or facts. You just want to argue your flaccid stance and bicker about pointless insipid bullshit, like who really wrote some article nobody read on some techgeek website only ubernerds care about.
Good for you. Way to live.
I'm a truly evil and sadistic person who takes great delight in the misery and suffering of others and I actually spent about 30-45 minutes last night at a few different android and xoom forums just browsing, reading and thoroughly enjoying myself. It was pure comedy gold, much better than any tv sitcom. Some of those people are truly delusional, bordering on mentally ill, with a few of them being truly psychotic.
I learned that it's not necessary for any game to have more than 25 FPS, as the human eye can't detect more than that anyway.
I also learned that the smoothness and better response of iOS is an over hyped feature since people don't coat their floors with wax and slide around on it. Hence, smoothness and having no lag is a useless feature.
I also learned that engadget, anandtech and a bunch of other sites are really paid shills for Apple and that there is a huge conspiracy taking place against Android.
I could go on, but if anybody is interested in a few laughs and LOLs, then head on over to any of those android and xoom forums and read for yourself. There's also massive infighting taking place, with a few people there recognizing reality and admitting that the iPad is superior VS those who refuse to accept that fact. If I had just spent $800 on a buggy piece of junk, I might be upset too.
LOL. Thanks for the research
He filmed a bunch of supposedly exciting footage?battle scenes, flying, roller-coaster rides, etc.?at a variety of framerates. Then he showed them to a number of volunteers after wiring them up like a polygraph?heart rate, respiration, skin galvanic response. He found that people's measurable "excitement" did indeed increase with framerate, presumably because it seemed more realistic or involving, until he hit 60 fps. After that there was no further improvement.
As a result of that, I consider it an observed scientific fact that 60 fps is the most the human visual system can handle, and anything over that is overkill?or just one of those meaningless specs that geeks like to quote.
Of course, I could be wrong. When stereo was invented, the brain wasn't supposed to be able to detect different arrival times at each ear, just differing loudness. That turned out to be baloney. Also, the TV I'm looking at right now actually has 1920 X 1080 pixels on the screen. (That was a prerequisite for me, so I'm a very late adopter on HDTV.) In this area we have five 1080i channels and five 720p channels. Doing the arithmetic, from this distance I shouldn't be able to resolve 720 lines, let alone 1080, but I can tell the 720p channels appear dull and lifeless compared with the 1080i ones. I can't explain it, but it's an observed fact for me.
I think someone should revisit Spielberg's experiment in the electronic era. A question that occurs to me is: these new 3D TVs think they need 120 Hz for 3D, but I wonder if alternating 30 fps per eye would add up to a perceived 60 fps?
I agree, I don't have much interest in comparisons to Xoom--it is only half baked and probably only mentioned by Anand to have another graphics processing data point.
But, my question is this: What does this all mean for the mythical Retina Display summer update? If Apple was able to produce (in quantity) the double resolution/quadruple pixel count screen and add an HD line to the iPod2 without any other internal changes, how will it affect performance? I don't know enough about these things to speculate myself, but I am curious. Would it drag the iPad2's graphics performance back down or would it only affect certain functions?
I understand drawing triangles is drawing triangles no regardless of pixel count, but the contention that Xoom should get a break because of its pixel count has me wondering...
You make an excellent point. I think they've been making "retina" displays for a long time now. It all has to do with "yield". So they try to make 'retina' screens for the iPad... They only get one out of 10, per say. Bad yield right... no. They take what they can from that and put it in the iPhone or iPod touch.
They have been building them for a long time now. The so called 'rejects' end up in the phone or touch. It gets more complicated than that, but I believe they are building up supply. Who knows, by the time they release it, it may be a 9 out of 10 yield....
I think you mean 30 fps. Besides, the ideal thing is that the average frame rate should be around 40fps, that way you know that when you get to a very action-packed part of a game (in other words, lots of explosions), the frame rate won't drop below 24fps.
Did you read the same post? He was mocking the folks that wrote that.