I don't care who exceeds who after awhile. You can change the goal post and claim victory if you want; it isn't as if the original ipad is at +15 million.
But most people here claimed Kinnect would bomb.
1) The original iPad has sold more than 15M.
2) I think most thought it was a cool device. I know many pulled their Xbox 360 out of the closet, dusted it off and had good time with the Kinect this past holiday. The poin of contention on these boards was the claim that it would sell more units that the iPad would and the odd comparison to the iPad (which I defended on the basis of good free marketing.
How the hell do you infer “the iPad is a console level gaming device” from “iPad 2 sneaks closer to console gaming with 1080p Real Racing 2 HDTV output”?
Another example of the headline would be “Sprockkets sneaks closer to acting like an adult by no longer picking his nose in public”. That does not mean that not picking your nose in public means you are at “adult level” maturity, it just means you are just a wii bit closer than you were before.
How the hell do you infer ?the iPad is a console level gaming device? from ?iPad 2 sneaks closer to console gaming with 1080p Real Racing 2 HDTV output?.
Another example of the headline would be ?Sprockkets sneaks closer to acting like an adult by no longer picking his nose in public?. That does not mean that not picking your nose in public means you are at ?adult level? maturity, it just means you are just a wii bit closer than you were before.
How the hell do you infer “the iPad is a console level gaming device” from “iPad 2 sneaks closer to console gaming with 1080p Real Racing 2 HDTV output”?
Oooo, and there happens to be a console that doesn't even have 1080p resolution. What now?
Quote:
Another example of the headline would be “Sprockkets sneaks closer to acting like an adult by no longer picking his nose in public”. That does not mean that not picking your nose in public means you are at “adult level” maturity, it just means you are just a wii bit closer than you were before.
Bad analogy and you know it. The ipad2 is projected by DED as a stupid 17 year old teenager who already smokes and is sexually active and is waiting for 18 to come by.
How much is currently used by the new AppleTV. Less than 1GB? Need for Speed HD is only 207MB, at least as the downloadable file from the iTS.
While 16GB would be better, I don?t think 8GB is an issue, especially if we?re talking about 720p. I would expect a 1080p version of the iPad to include 16GB, at least 512MB RAM (though hopefully 1GB if they only plan to update them bi-yearly).
Nova 2 weighs in at around 1.2GB.
It's not really a "casual" game it takes hours to get through it, Dungeon Hunter 2 is another immersive title, some of the latest games require careful manipulation of memory, I have to delete games on my 16GB iPhone to fit the latest powerhouses on.
Firemint are a real Australian success story, innovative and showing what can be achieved with limited resources, since hitching their wagon to iOS they haven't looked back.
Their real racing series easily give any other platform's driving games a run for their money with quite a lot of depth to them.
Looks slick, but I'll be really impressed when the Bullet Physics library [or equivalent] is intricate in games where Force, Mass and Elasticity/Plasticity and Surface Manifold deformations are applied.
When that car hits the wall it should really hit the wall and a yellow flag should come out.
It's not really a "casual" game it takes hours to get through it, Dungeon Hunter 2 is another immersive title, some of the latest games require careful manipulation of memory, I have to delete games on my 16GB iPhone to fit the latest powerhouses on.
Firemint are a real Australian success story, innovative and showing what can be achieved with limited resources, since hitching their wagon to iOS they haven't looked back.
Their real racing series easily give any other platform's driving games a run for their money with quite a lot of depth to them.
That?s big for an iOS game. I made a comment earlier in this thread about a way this could be handled with a push of simple game files if we assume that an iOS-based iDevice would be required for this setup.. but there might be another way, even if they do increase the amount of storage.
Since the AppleTV is stationary and likely tied to a home network where there is some Mac or PC with an iTunes account that is linked to the AppleTV, it?s possible it could what I stated before but rotate the needed apps from the iTunes account as needed. While not ideal if you do have to wait for a game to load into the AppleTV and load, it is a solution that may be faster than what I?ve experienced loading optical discs into game consoles. Still, that would only happen if you run out of space and need to reload the game files.
Again, not ideal, but doable.
PS: Is it possible that 8GB flash memory was simply the most economical option for the AppleTV or was there a distinct reason for adding that much NAND just to run the OS and stream video?
The new iPad 2 is console class. Easily looks Wii or PS2 quality or better to me. Maybe more. Whether the iPad 2 has PS3 quality graphics is no more an argument than comparing a Wii's graphics to the PS3.
It's gpu power easily hangs with a PS2 minimum. And is no doubt looking down it's sights to PS3/360 quality graphics with it's next iteration with a retina display probably.
It's a console that you can play in your hands with a screen integrated. You can play it through your tv with a cable. One day, maybe without a cable.
The apps and games for the iPad dwarf the other consoles combined.
It's a great gaming device.
It's a great media device.
It's a great creation device.
It's evolutionary tradjectory over the next five years is frightening. It will eclipse the Mac user base inside two years of sales.
It will probably be close to the 360s 6 year sales inside what? 2 years? Ish?
Outputting to 1080p, to a hi-def tv with a device so thin, so powerful...is incredible.
The PS3, 360s and Wii? Old news. By some 5 years.
Everything about the iPad screams the future. From the app store...to the technical potential of the device which will double each year.
'Casual' gaming. Has dwarfed the 'serious' gaming crowd in such a little amount of time. It wasn't even a fight. Arguments about Apple producing 'gaming towers', 'hard' controllers for the iPad or even a 'console' are mute. They're old arguments and Apple have already moved beyond them.
Debates over game quality are mute. There are crap games on every gaming device as well as 'good' games. What isn't in doubt that another avalanche of games will come with 15-25 million sales of iPad 2 and quality will rise for the games publisher to stand out in that market.
Apple took there time to enter the 'gaming' market. But they crashed the party with a wrecking ball. M$, Sony and Nintendo ought to be well worried.
The iPad is a great device. It is not a replacement for, or legitimate competitor to, gaming consoles. That?s up to the AppleTV, not the iPad. And so far, Apple has shown no interest in entering that market.
Oooo, and there happens to be a console that doesn't even have 1080p resolution. What now?
Bad analogy and you know it. The ipad2 is projected by DED as a stupid 17 year old teenager who already smokes and is sexually active and is waiting for 18 to come by.
Wow, who is this guy? His logic circuits appear to have melted...
I rounded to the nearest full month to keep the math simpler. If you want to prorate all the days go right ahead. Ordered from most to least in the number of units sold.
• Apple iPod: ≈2.68 million (per month)
• Apple iPhone: ≈2.22 million (per month)
• Nintendo Wii: ≈1.69 million (per month)
• MS Xbox 360: ≈1 million (per month)
• Sony PS3: ≈1.26 million (per month)
• Apple iPad: ≈1.36 million (per month)
• MS Kinect: ≈2 million (per month)
Which of these companies would you bet on? The Kinect looks impressive but it’s new and an accessory to add life to an aging console. Meaning, those sales are not sustainable.
It's also worth stating that the iPad 2 and the iPhone 5 are expected to be similar in power as the iPad 1 and iPhone 4 were. If they're linking to an external display, you could reasonably include the 100m iOS devices in this argument to some degree. iOS is a truly huge platform.
As the power of the devices increases, it will become a massive player in the games market, which spans PC, mobile and console.
It's also worth stating that the iPad 2 and the iPhone 5 are expected to be similar in power as the iPad 1 and iPhone 4 were. If they're linking to an external display, you could reasonably include the 100m iOS devices in this argument to some degree. iOS is a truly huge platform.
As the power of the devices increases, it will become a massive player in the games market, which spans PC, mobile and console.
Yeah, I opted for the lesser argument because it stood well on its owns and I didn?t want to get a rebuttle of ?You can?t group the iPod Touch, iPhone and iPad together because they are blah blah blah?? but you?re right. Even if we only use add the A4 or A5 versions of those iOS-based iDevices that?s a lot of gaming devices in a single year that can essentially play the same titles, save for the ones that are iPad specific.
Um? no. Look, AI. It?s sort of cute when you, Gruber, and other pro-Apple outlets try to claim that Apple is somehow chewing into the console games market, but? the fact is, they aren?t.
Nintendo doesn?t agree with you. .... ?Nintendo?s president, Satoru Iwata, the man who essentially willed the company to success in the past several years?he was more or less responsible for the Wii?has told his sergeants to treat Apple as the company?s most significant threat from here on out.?
Nintendo doesn’t agree with you. .... “Nintendo’s president, Satoru Iwata, the man who essentially willed the company to success in the past several years—he was more or less responsible for the Wii—has told his sergeants to treat Apple as the company’s most significant threat from here on out.”
Yes, in the handheld space, which is actually Nintendo’s biggest market. They are absolutely correct to compete with Apple there, because Apple is beginning to eat their lunch in the handheld space.
In the console area… no. Not even close, and it won’t be in the foreseeable future.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonamac
...in 11 months...
The 360 has been around for 6 years...
Which would be an excellent point if we were comparing rate of sales as proof of viability in a specific market. We’re not.
I’m simply pointing out that the iPad is not competing in the console market, nor is it a replacement for a console. Bringing up total sales was a way of refuting a specific point made in a specific reply about “hardcore gamers”. They currently outnumber iPad owners, so it’s not as if this a specialized niche market product versus a multifunction device. The point is that the iPad does not compete in the console market at all. An HDMI adapter does not a console competitor make.
“iPad 2 sneaks closer to console gaming with 1080p Real Racing 2 HDTV output” makes about as much sense as “iPad 2 sneaks closer to television set top box with 1080p HDTV output”.
Yes, in the handheld space, which is actually Nintendo?s biggest market. They are absolutely correct to compete with Apple there, because Apple is beginning to eat their lunch in the handheld space.
In the console area? no. Not even close, and it won?t be in the foreseeable future.
Which would be an excellent point if we were comparing rate of sales as proof of viability in a specific market. We?re not.
I?m simply pointing out that the iPad is not competing in the console market, nor is it a replacement for a console.
So quickly we forget. It wasn?t too long ago that people like you (and probably you) were saying ?Apple can?t compete with the portable gaming market. There little handheld toys aren?t nearly as powerful as the Nintendo DS and SOny PSP.? Now look where we are.
Note that even before these popular iDevices increased in performance YoY as these single-function handheld gaming devices stagnated for years Apple was already pulling users onto their platform because it offered a lot more functionality than simply playing some games.
So tell us, how can you be so sure that Apple will not be able to pull users into their fold the same way they did against handheld gaming devices ?that they never had a chance competing with? when they are updating their HW every year, have an abundance of 3rd-party developers, and a low cost when you consider the other uses of their products?
By 2012 the iPad/iPad 2/iPad 3 combined sales will surpass 100 million sold. With 30+ countries selling weeks faster than the millions supplied monthly it's not difficult to grasp the end game.
By 2012 the iOS 4/4+ compliant devices will surpass 200 million.
Yes, in the handheld space, which is actually Nintendo?s biggest market. They are absolutely correct to compete with Apple there, because Apple is beginning to eat their lunch in the handheld space.
In the console area? no. Not even close, and it won?t be in the foreseeable future.
"The foreseeable future" may be a lot closer than one might think. As iPad sales increase at a faster rate then console sales .... and I think that is becoming clearer by the day, it seems to me that choices will have to be made by the consumer. A dedicated game console may be a necessity to a "gamer" .... but to the average (read: majority) consumer, a device that gives an adequate experience on a large screen TV (HD) and also fits the bill on many other levels, eBook reader, web surfing, video chat, email, etc. etc. and does it wherever you want to be at the time ...... well, imo, it's a slam dunk for the iPad. We'll see ...
Comments
I don't care who exceeds who after awhile. You can change the goal post and claim victory if you want; it isn't as if the original ipad is at +15 million.
But most people here claimed Kinnect would bomb.
1) The original iPad has sold more than 15M.
2) I think most thought it was a cool device. I know many pulled their Xbox 360 out of the closet, dusted it off and had good time with the Kinect this past holiday. The poin of contention on these boards was the claim that it would sell more units that the iPad would and the odd comparison to the iPad (which I defended on the basis of good free marketing.
How bout you read the ******* headline?
Really?! "closer to console gaming" = is console gaming?!
How bout you read the ******* headline?
How the hell do you infer “the iPad is a console level gaming device” from “iPad 2 sneaks closer to console gaming with 1080p Real Racing 2 HDTV output”?
Another example of the headline would be “Sprockkets sneaks closer to acting like an adult by no longer picking his nose in public”. That does not mean that not picking your nose in public means you are at “adult level” maturity, it just means you are just a wii bit closer than you were before.
How the hell do you infer ?the iPad is a console level gaming device? from ?iPad 2 sneaks closer to console gaming with 1080p Real Racing 2 HDTV output?.
Another example of the headline would be ?Sprockkets sneaks closer to acting like an adult by no longer picking his nose in public?. That does not mean that not picking your nose in public means you are at ?adult level? maturity, it just means you are just a wii bit closer than you were before.
How the hell do you infer “the iPad is a console level gaming device” from “iPad 2 sneaks closer to console gaming with 1080p Real Racing 2 HDTV output”?
Oooo, and there happens to be a console that doesn't even have 1080p resolution. What now?
Another example of the headline would be “Sprockkets sneaks closer to acting like an adult by no longer picking his nose in public”. That does not mean that not picking your nose in public means you are at “adult level” maturity, it just means you are just a wii bit closer than you were before.
Bad analogy and you know it. The ipad2 is projected by DED as a stupid 17 year old teenager who already smokes and is sexually active and is waiting for 18 to come by.
How much is currently used by the new AppleTV. Less than 1GB? Need for Speed HD is only 207MB, at least as the downloadable file from the iTS.
While 16GB would be better, I don?t think 8GB is an issue, especially if we?re talking about 720p. I would expect a 1080p version of the iPad to include 16GB, at least 512MB RAM (though hopefully 1GB if they only plan to update them bi-yearly).
Nova 2 weighs in at around 1.2GB.
It's not really a "casual" game it takes hours to get through it, Dungeon Hunter 2 is another immersive title, some of the latest games require careful manipulation of memory, I have to delete games on my 16GB iPhone to fit the latest powerhouses on.
Firemint are a real Australian success story, innovative and showing what can be achieved with limited resources, since hitching their wagon to iOS they haven't looked back.
Their real racing series easily give any other platform's driving games a run for their money with quite a lot of depth to them.
When that car hits the wall it should really hit the wall and a yellow flag should come out.
Nova 2 weighs in at around 1.2GB.
It's not really a "casual" game it takes hours to get through it, Dungeon Hunter 2 is another immersive title, some of the latest games require careful manipulation of memory, I have to delete games on my 16GB iPhone to fit the latest powerhouses on.
Firemint are a real Australian success story, innovative and showing what can be achieved with limited resources, since hitching their wagon to iOS they haven't looked back.
Their real racing series easily give any other platform's driving games a run for their money with quite a lot of depth to them.
That?s big for an iOS game. I made a comment earlier in this thread about a way this could be handled with a push of simple game files if we assume that an iOS-based iDevice would be required for this setup.. but there might be another way, even if they do increase the amount of storage.
Since the AppleTV is stationary and likely tied to a home network where there is some Mac or PC with an iTunes account that is linked to the AppleTV, it?s possible it could what I stated before but rotate the needed apps from the iTunes account as needed. While not ideal if you do have to wait for a game to load into the AppleTV and load, it is a solution that may be faster than what I?ve experienced loading optical discs into game consoles. Still, that would only happen if you run out of space and need to reload the game files.
Again, not ideal, but doable.
PS: Is it possible that 8GB flash memory was simply the most economical option for the AppleTV or was there a distinct reason for adding that much NAND just to run the OS and stream video?
It's gpu power easily hangs with a PS2 minimum. And is no doubt looking down it's sights to PS3/360 quality graphics with it's next iteration with a retina display probably.
It's a console that you can play in your hands with a screen integrated. You can play it through your tv with a cable. One day, maybe without a cable.
The apps and games for the iPad dwarf the other consoles combined.
It's a great gaming device.
It's a great media device.
It's a great creation device.
It's evolutionary tradjectory over the next five years is frightening. It will eclipse the Mac user base inside two years of sales.
It will probably be close to the 360s 6 year sales inside what? 2 years? Ish?
Outputting to 1080p, to a hi-def tv with a device so thin, so powerful...is incredible.
The PS3, 360s and Wii? Old news. By some 5 years.
Everything about the iPad screams the future. From the app store...to the technical potential of the device which will double each year.
'Casual' gaming. Has dwarfed the 'serious' gaming crowd in such a little amount of time. It wasn't even a fight. Arguments about Apple producing 'gaming towers', 'hard' controllers for the iPad or even a 'console' are mute. They're old arguments and Apple have already moved beyond them.
Debates over game quality are mute. There are crap games on every gaming device as well as 'good' games. What isn't in doubt that another avalanche of games will come with 15-25 million sales of iPad 2 and quality will rise for the games publisher to stand out in that market.
Apple took there time to enter the 'gaming' market. But they crashed the party with a wrecking ball. M$, Sony and Nintendo ought to be well worried.
Apple whips tail. Kicks ass. This party's over.
Lemon Bon Bon.
Wii: 86 million sold to date
PS3: 48 million sold to date
360: 50 million sold to date
iPad: 15 million sold to date
The iPad is a great device. It is not a replacement for, or legitimate competitor to, gaming consoles. That?s up to the AppleTV, not the iPad. And so far, Apple has shown no interest in entering that market.
...in 11 months...
The 360 has been around for 6 years...
Oooo, and there happens to be a console that doesn't even have 1080p resolution. What now?
Bad analogy and you know it. The ipad2 is projected by DED as a stupid 17 year old teenager who already smokes and is sexually active and is waiting for 18 to come by.
Wow, who is this guy? His logic circuits appear to have melted...
I rounded to the nearest full month to keep the math simpler. If you want to prorate all the days go right ahead. Ordered from most to least in the number of units sold. Which of these companies would you bet on? The Kinect looks impressive but it’s new and an accessory to add life to an aging console. Meaning, those sales are not sustainable.
It's also worth stating that the iPad 2 and the iPhone 5 are expected to be similar in power as the iPad 1 and iPhone 4 were. If they're linking to an external display, you could reasonably include the 100m iOS devices in this argument to some degree. iOS is a truly huge platform.
As the power of the devices increases, it will become a massive player in the games market, which spans PC, mobile and console.
It's also worth stating that the iPad 2 and the iPhone 5 are expected to be similar in power as the iPad 1 and iPhone 4 were. If they're linking to an external display, you could reasonably include the 100m iOS devices in this argument to some degree. iOS is a truly huge platform.
As the power of the devices increases, it will become a massive player in the games market, which spans PC, mobile and console.
Yeah, I opted for the lesser argument because it stood well on its owns and I didn?t want to get a rebuttle of ?You can?t group the iPod Touch, iPhone and iPad together because they are blah blah blah?? but you?re right. Even if we only use add the A4 or A5 versions of those iOS-based iDevices that?s a lot of gaming devices in a single year that can essentially play the same titles, save for the ones that are iPad specific.
Um? no. Look, AI. It?s sort of cute when you, Gruber, and other pro-Apple outlets try to claim that Apple is somehow chewing into the console games market, but? the fact is, they aren?t.
Nintendo doesn?t agree with you. .... ?Nintendo?s president, Satoru Iwata, the man who essentially willed the company to success in the past several years?he was more or less responsible for the Wii?has told his sergeants to treat Apple as the company?s most significant threat from here on out.?
http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/05/07...ggest-problem/
Nintendo doesn’t agree with you. .... “Nintendo’s president, Satoru Iwata, the man who essentially willed the company to success in the past several years—he was more or less responsible for the Wii—has told his sergeants to treat Apple as the company’s most significant threat from here on out.”
http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/05/07...ggest-problem/
Yes, in the handheld space, which is actually Nintendo’s biggest market. They are absolutely correct to compete with Apple there, because Apple is beginning to eat their lunch in the handheld space.
In the console area… no. Not even close, and it won’t be in the foreseeable future.
...in 11 months...
The 360 has been around for 6 years...
Which would be an excellent point if we were comparing rate of sales as proof of viability in a specific market. We’re not.
I’m simply pointing out that the iPad is not competing in the console market, nor is it a replacement for a console. Bringing up total sales was a way of refuting a specific point made in a specific reply about “hardcore gamers”. They currently outnumber iPad owners, so it’s not as if this a specialized niche market product versus a multifunction device. The point is that the iPad does not compete in the console market at all. An HDMI adapter does not a console competitor make.
“iPad 2 sneaks closer to console gaming with 1080p Real Racing 2 HDTV output” makes about as much sense as “iPad 2 sneaks closer to television set top box with 1080p HDTV output”.
Yes, in the handheld space, which is actually Nintendo?s biggest market. They are absolutely correct to compete with Apple there, because Apple is beginning to eat their lunch in the handheld space.
In the console area? no. Not even close, and it won?t be in the foreseeable future.
Which would be an excellent point if we were comparing rate of sales as proof of viability in a specific market. We?re not.
I?m simply pointing out that the iPad is not competing in the console market, nor is it a replacement for a console.
So quickly we forget. It wasn?t too long ago that people like you (and probably you) were saying ?Apple can?t compete with the portable gaming market. There little handheld toys aren?t nearly as powerful as the Nintendo DS and SOny PSP.? Now look where we are.
Note that even before these popular iDevices increased in performance YoY as these single-function handheld gaming devices stagnated for years Apple was already pulling users onto their platform because it offered a lot more functionality than simply playing some games.
So tell us, how can you be so sure that Apple will not be able to pull users into their fold the same way they did against handheld gaming devices ?that they never had a chance competing with? when they are updating their HW every year, have an abundance of 3rd-party developers, and a low cost when you consider the other uses of their products?
By 2012 the iOS 4/4+ compliant devices will surpass 200 million.
Not anymore. The 360 is now outselling everyone since it hit a lower price !
Outselling "everyone" apart from the Wii and the PS3.
http://www.vgchartz.com/
And the Kinnect is the fastest selling consumer electronic device in history.
So far in two months it sold 8 million.
To be more accurate... Kinnect sold 8 million in it's FIRST two months. In the next two months it only sold 2 million. Christmas is over mate!
Yes, in the handheld space, which is actually Nintendo?s biggest market. They are absolutely correct to compete with Apple there, because Apple is beginning to eat their lunch in the handheld space.
In the console area? no. Not even close, and it won?t be in the foreseeable future.
"The foreseeable future" may be a lot closer than one might think. As iPad sales increase at a faster rate then console sales .... and I think that is becoming clearer by the day, it seems to me that choices will have to be made by the consumer. A dedicated game console may be a necessity to a "gamer" .... but to the average (read: majority) consumer, a device that gives an adequate experience on a large screen TV (HD) and also fits the bill on many other levels, eBook reader, web surfing, video chat, email, etc. etc. and does it wherever you want to be at the time ...... well, imo, it's a slam dunk for the iPad. We'll see ...
Wow, who is this guy? His logic circuits appear to have melted...
We've seen these symptoms before. We all know what teckstud and his likes suffered after that