Rumor: Apple may not release cloud-based iOS 5 until this fall

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  • Reply 41 of 135
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    No, they won't! Again, you give no believable reason why they would do this.



    The believable reason is the $4B spend on components and capital equipment. I bet that the factories and extra capacity they bought have not come online yet, when they do and if they are capable of retina display then it makes sense to benefit from that this year.



    Against that we have the old-timers and their tiresome Apple have never done it this way schtick. Its only been a few years and they will up production when they can, and they nay well produce more than one update per device per year.



    Also they won't be introducing an iPhone only version of iOS 5 just because they did that last year.



    If iOS was due June we devs would have it now. We don't. This rumour makes sense.
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  • Reply 42 of 135
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    No, they won't! Again, you give no believable reason why they would do this.



    Are you saying they will do nothing in any of the statements he made?



    Quote:

    1) AppleTV ?Retina Display"



    I can conceive for a 2048x1536 iPad this fall is Apple wanting to get so far ahead of the competition to make the iPad another iPod, not an iPhone, in terms of market dominace by unit share. That is the only believable reason they would do this.



    However, when I look at the larger picture and account for every puzzle piece I see this would require Apple having investing in this HW, having it ready for a 2011 release and having the other key aspects to support such a high res display without negatively affecting the rest of the product?s usability. I don?t think al of these are inline for 2011, and maybe not even for 2012 or 2013.



    Quote:

    2) AppleTV with A5.



    There is nothing technically unbelievable about this happening. It would even allow for 1080p output on the AppleTV. Why do you think this is not believable?



    The only reasons I can see holding Apple back are:
    • They can milk the $99 device for longer (though it?s also possible that by having a yearly update at $99 they can grab an even more sales from this cheap CE upgrade).

    • They won?t upgrade the AppleTV to 1080p output until they can secure the licensing of iTunes Store video sales and rentals to 1080p output to simplify the ecosystem for consumers.

    Quote:

    3) iOS-based Home Server.



    Why do you think this is also unbelievable? Saying you don?t think they will do it is one thing, but it?s certainly not a technical challenge. The only aspect that seems to be missing from iOS is disc support.



    There has been no evidence of this expect for some cryptic remarks about iOS? future, the known efficiency of iOS on ARM, and the desire for a proper home server with RAIDed drives, not a single drive system that the family shares.
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  • Reply 43 of 135
    bageljoeybageljoey Posts: 2,009member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    You are right... I can offer no believable reason.



    But, I've watched Apple and SJ for 33 years. Steve has a vision that has been sidetracked by others, or that he has never been in a position to implement.



    My gut tells me Apple's post-pc offering will be Steve's ultimate glory, and sweet revenge to all who opposed him.





    The key is the iPad -- the iPhone is only a necessary step along the way.



    I believe within 2 years, the iPad line will be the dominant Apple device in sales, profit and customer acceptance.





    My gut says the time is now -- and it's balls to the wall!




    I like the way you think!



    When we are making our own rumors, we don't have to make complete sense. Sure, Apple is cruising and the competition is still reeling, but I agree! this (Post PC computing) is what Steve has been gunning for for a while now and he would love to blow the doors off the competition even more!



    The biggest obstacle is whether or not they can get the parts made and put them together fast enough. Who knows if there is any chance they could somehow do this without risking existing production? If they could, I think they would do it...
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  • Reply 44 of 135
    mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 7,503member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    You are right... I can offer no believable reason.



    But, I've watched Apple and SJ for 33 years. Steve has a vision that has been sidetracked by others, or that he has never been in a position to implement.



    My gut tells me Apple's post-pc offering will be Steve's ultimate glory, and sweet revenge to all who opposed him.





    The key is the iPad -- the iPhone is only a necessary step along the way.



    I believe within 2 years, the iPad line will be the dominant Apple device in sales, profit and customer acceptance.





    My gut says the time is now -- and it's balls to the wall!



    .



    Having worked for him at NeXT and Apple, I can say that is your vision, not Steve's.
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  • Reply 45 of 135
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,526member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jonamac View Post


    This is a significant amount of work and investment. Are the gains so worthwhile to bring forward the Q1 2012 iPad? I don't think so.



    Also, I'm a photographer and I assure you, no iPad will be a stunning landscape or portrait camera for a good while yet, if ever. There's a reason I lug around my 77mm diameter L-series glass :P



    Yes, there are always higher standards from the professional realm that seem to set the bar too high for the breakout innovation at lower levels. I wonder what the large-format photographers said about image quality when the 35mm Leica came out.



    I'm coming from the point of view where I see the iPhone 4's combination of camera, software and screen as amazing. Therefore, the same combination on the 9.5" double-resolution iPad screen will be what i would call stunning. You may only be impressed or mildly astonished by such images.



    And then your own images which you've gathered with all that glass may look so good that you will need to carry one around yourself. "The best 5X7 high-res screen is the one you have with you."



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Stop with the iPad3 already, no matter what you want to call it! Apple has no reason to come out with one, and I haven't seen a single good reason why they should, but there are many reasons why they shouldn't. This is much more a whine from people wanting a higher Rez model as soon as possible, then it is a solid business reason for Apple to do so.



    Apple is well behind in production for this model, and even though it's now being said that Apple won't have more than a minor problem from Japan's tragedy, there will be some. Apple will continue to have difficulty producing enough tablets the entire year. Last year, it took almost all year for them to catch up in production, and they will be selling many more this year. Unless you, and others who are so insistent upon having us believe that Apple will have a 3 version in September can come up with some very good reasons why Apple would NEED to do so, you can stop bothering us with this.



    It would also be a very bad idea for Apple to come out with a "pro" version at a higher resolution, and thus do to the iPad market what Google and its OEMS have been doing to the Android market. I believe that Apple will avoid doing that at all costs. The only reason why Apple has a $99, now $49 3GS still out there with the old screen, is because they want some of the cheap market that Android is taking. They don't have that problem with the iPad.



    I will stop bothering you with this, after I point out that Apple does not NEED to do this, but I feel that certain operatives within the company WANT to do it. And many others besides me WANT them to do it too.



    You are right that there are probably some business reasons not to do it, such as bankrolling an entire screen-production facility separate from the standard iPad lines. And I can't show you a 'single good reason' FOR doing it, as that is an exercise of imagination, and that always stops the discussion when none is forthcoming from the other side.



    I actually have a good photographic reason for NEEDing such a screen, but this is the last place where I would discuss it. (It ain't got nuthin' to do with feelthy pictures, either.)



    No whining from here if they don't do it, I assure you.
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  • Reply 46 of 135
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by asdasd View Post


    The believable reason is the $4B spend on components and capital equipment. I bet that the factories and extra capacity they bought have not come online yet, when they do and if they are capable of retina display then it makes sense to benefit from that this year.



    Against that we have the old-timers and their tiresome Apple have never done it this way schtick. Its only been a few years and they will up production when they can, and they nay well produce more than one update per device per year.



    Also they won't be introducing an iPhone only version of iOS 5 just because they did that last year.



    If iOS was due June we devs would have it now. We don't. This rumour makes sense.



    Yes!



    Apple is in a different world than it has been in for 26 of the last 33 years.



    CE dominates and there are different rules to the game -- and I believe Apple wants to set the rules.



    If they have to release 2 or 3 versions of a device with 12 months to stay ahead of the competition -- I think they will do it. They have risked too much to attain their market advantage... and will not let it slip away.



    I agree, that if iOS 5 is to be revolutionary and necessary for an iP5 announce/release in July -- the devs would have it now.





    Why does an iOS major release need to be tied to the iPhone -- why not another iDevice?.



    Or, why, like OS X, can't an iOS major release support all current iDevices -- and be released when it makes sense for the OS?



    Or, one final question: Has Apple forked iOS 4.3x to support the current iDevices -- and are the planning a whole new iDevice category where they will use and exploit features in iOS 5.



    If so, then iOS 5 need not be shown until this new iDevice category is announced -- and the Devs can get the beta the same day without any disadvantage.



    This latter, is the most far-fetched -- but makes as much sense as some of the other reasons for advancing/delaying the next iOS release.





    .
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  • Reply 47 of 135
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post


    Having worked for him at NeXT and Apple, I can say that is your vision, not Steve's.



    You well, could be right -- but it's my gut!
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  • Reply 48 of 135
    I wish the media would stop repeating the rumor of another hardware upgrade in 2011. From a business perspective it doesn't make any sense. With the improvements in iPad2 ... that's is it for 2011. So many think Retina is next. it is not IMHO...the current resolution is actually nice, and all more resolution and pixel density will do is degrade performance. Wait til the gaming developers do their magic on the display, and perhaps all the "I want it" crowd will relax that position.



    However, some nice things can be accomplished with software improvements. The "Locker" idea has real merit. More plug and play with auto load so it is not so difficult to move/sync data you own (music, photos, files, calendars, contacts, etc) ... this should be seamless.
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  • Reply 49 of 135
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,526member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    You are right... I can offer no believable reason.



    But, I've watched Apple and SJ for 33 years. Steve has a vision that has been sidetracked by others, or that he has never been in a position to implement.



    My gut tells me Apple's post-pc offering will be Steve's ultimate glory, and sweet revenge to all who opposed him.





    The key is the iPad -- the iPhone is only a necessary step along the way.



    I believe within 2 years, the iPad line will be the dominant Apple device in sales, profit and customer acceptance.





    My gut says the time is now -- and it's balls to the wall!



    .





    See, this is more like it. Imagination! It really helps in prediction, especially of the future. (joke, credit goes to . . . )



    The tablet form is a window on the connected world, the one we've been waiting for. Not the anchored desktop, not the awkward laptop, but the one that's handheld. Why shouldn't they make it as good a window as possible as soon as they can, rather than waiting for arbitrary release schedules? The question is, can they make it already? Not whether they will.



    Oops, I said I wasn't going to say any more about it.
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  • Reply 50 of 135
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post


    I like the way you think!



    When we are making our own rumors, we don't have to make complete sense. Sure, Apple is cruising and the competition is still reeling, but I agree! this (Post PC computing) is what Steve has been gunning for for a while now and he would love to blow the doors off the competition even more!



    The biggest obstacle is whether or not they can get the parts made and put them together fast enough. Who knows if there is any chance they could somehow do this without risking existing production? If they could, I think they would do it...



    That's one of the beauties behind an iPad HD and/or the ATV HD.



    They aren't obsoleting the current products -- they are just extending the line with higher-priced premium models.



    For drill, lets say the iPad HD 64 GB entry model is $799 and the ATV HD is $149.



    Within reason, they can set pricing to control the demand (and manufacturing requirements).



    But they can make a statement, set the bar for another year (or 2) and sell a reasonable amount of product (say 2 Million) within the 1st 3-5 months.



    They can continue to sell the current models as well as the new models. They can adjust prices as required, on both the current and new models.



    Apple is often criticized for being too secret and not offering providing future information for platform planning...



    I maintain, that that is exactly what Apple has done with each iDevice announcement -- the difference is that the future product plan is realized almost immediately (weeks or a few months).



    Compare that with RIMM, MMI, HP, MSFT, Sammy -- where products are announced and never appear or are obsolete before they ship.



    .
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  • Reply 51 of 135
    irelandireland Posts: 17,802member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post


    We have a problem Houston.



    Cloud-based not only implies but states the operating system is founded on the Cloud. It's not.



    Adding Cloud Services is not Cloud-based.



    If you can't grasp the difference no one can truly respect the reporting.



    Haha!
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  • Reply 52 of 135
    irelandireland Posts: 17,802member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cpsro View Post


    The iPad 2 is selling sufficiently well and the competition seems sufficiently flummoxed, without iOS 5 for now.



    Your comments will have added punch if you don't recycle Steve Jobs' words.
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  • Reply 53 of 135
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    Your comments will have added punch if you don't recycle Steve Jobs' words.



    "Flummoxed" is not exclusive to Steve Jobs.
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  • Reply 54 of 135
    alienzedalienzed Posts: 393member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post


    Apple rumor reports are like trying to envision the proverbial elephant inside a totally dark room. they feel just one part of the animal and then speculate on the nature of the whole beast. usually badly.



    i like where this is going
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  • Reply 55 of 135
    I wish the media would stop repeating the rumor of another hardware upgrade in 2011. From a business perspective it doesn't make any sense. With the improvements in iPad2 ... that's is it for 2011. IMHO ... The competition has no lines of eager potential customers.



    However, some nice things can be accomplished with software improvements. The "Locker" idea has real merit. More plug and play with auto load so it is not so difficult to move/sync data you own (music, photos, files, calendars, contacts, etc) ... this should be seamless.



    Phil Schiller is reported to have mentioned that the dock with keyboard is not currently on the map for iPad2 ... it has not sold well ... most people seem to be okay with the virtual pad.



    However, the virtual pad needs a bit of help. A tab key and a right/left move cursor key would help production typists a lot. If an app like iAWriter can add another row of key for punctuation, then the iOS can easily be fixed to do the same thing.

    Also if the camera adapter kit can accommodate an SD camera card for .jpg files ... it could certainly be able to handle text files, and perhaps a few others of importance as well. That would help the creative side of the ipad grow in convenience as well. I am sure others can add their desires as well. Go for it.
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  • Reply 56 of 135
    sennensennen Posts: 1,472member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post


    but the new ones would turn the iPad Pro into a stunning portrait or landscape camera.



    Of course it will improve incrementally, but I don't see any reason whatsoever that the iPad (of whatever variant) needs to be (or have) a "stunning" camera. The form factor is too unwieldy for photography beyond the occasional snap.



    More important, however, is getting media (pictures, sound, video) from an iPhone or other camera to an iPad more effortlessly for post processing in iMovie, Garageband and iPhoto-esque applications.
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  • Reply 57 of 135
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,713member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    You are right... I can offer no believable reason.



    But, I've watched Apple and SJ for 33 years. Steve has a vision that has been sidetracked by others, or that he has never been in a position to implement.



    My gut tells me Apple's post-pc offering will be Steve's ultimate glory, and sweet revenge to all who opposed him.





    The key is the iPad -- the iPhone is only a necessary step along the way.



    I believe within 2 years, the iPad line will be the dominant Apple device in sales, profit and customer acceptance.





    My gut says the time is now -- and it's balls to the wall!



    .



    Well, yes, I agree with that in general. It's when we come to specifics that I'm seeing too much hopefulness about a product which makes no sense to produce.



    The only way I can see Apple producing, in a rushed fashion, an iPad3 for this year would be if their sales are in the toilet, and their competitors sales are flying, neither of which is being predicted by anyone.
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  • Reply 58 of 135
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,713member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by asdasd View Post


    The believable reason is the $4B spend on components and capital equipment. I bet that the factories and extra capacity they bought have not come online yet, when they do and if they are capable of retina display then it makes sense to benefit from that this year.



    Against that we have the old-timers and their tiresome Apple have never done it this way schtick. Its only been a few years and they will up production when they can, and they nay well produce more than one update per device per year.



    Also they won't be introducing an iPhone only version of iOS 5 just because they did that last year.



    If iOS was due June we devs would have it now. We don't. This rumour makes sense.



    What does their spending that prove? It doesn't prove anything. Apple can't meet demand. Their suppliers can't meet demand. Apple has spent money to help meet demand. This has nothing to do with some hoped for new model coming out months before it's expected. That's an awfully strained hypothesis.



    You have absolutely no good good explanation as to why they would do this other than the fact that you very much want them to. This has nothing to do with old timers, or Apple never having done it this way. That's absurd. And it isn't an explanation why they would do anything either. You still haven't given any good reason why they should.
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  • Reply 59 of 135
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,713member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    I agree for syncing and backup... over cell. It is too slow and expensive.



    But what about a home, a post-pc home, with iDevices WiFi and an Internet Connection.



    No PC required -- maybe an ATV/AirPort/Home Server box next to the TV.





    Now, cloud backup and sync begins to make sense.



    .



    Well, Ethernet is now at 1Gbs. That's pretty fast. WiFi is supposedly at 300 Mbs, if certain techniques are used, in theory it could be as high as 500 Mbs. But in actuality, it's much lower. You also have to be quite near to get the benefit of the high speeds. If you're that close, you might as well plug in. USB2 still gives much higher usable speeds than WiFi. When Thunderbolt is in operation for everyone at some point in the future, it's much faster, same with USB3. Over the air is always the slowest, least reliable and most easily cracked way of doing things.



    I don't mind if it's offered as a option. I would never want to limit people from doing what they think is best. But it better not be the only option.
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  • Reply 60 of 135
    I suspect we will see a revamped MobileMe very soon. While they aren't allowing anyone to purchase it anymore they are still encouraging people to sign up for the 2 month free trial.



    They stopped selling it at the end of February so I'd expect we see something announced within 2 months of that.
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