So when the Zune went away, didn't everybody lose all that music they thought they "bought", but only "subscribed" to? Or am I misunderstanding the business model? It would be the second time MS screwed everybody over like that (Plays4Sure), so I bet I'm not. I'd be mad as hell, but somehow I'm sure it's all Apple's fault.
You are misunderstanding the business model. And it did not go away: http://www.zune.net
They stopped making the Zune player hardware. The Zune software is used in WP7 and XBox 360 and PC.
The model is that you give them 12.50 a month (on a yearly subscription) and you get 10 songs every month that you can remove the DRM and keep forever and play on any number of devices. You can also buy any additional songs just like on iTunes.
And as you mention, for the songs you don't want to own forever and purchase, you can download and play them on your devices. No additional cost.
If you haven't tried it you should. Especially with wireless synching. Your device is always updated with the latest music, pod casts or whatever. No need to phisically connect it to iTunes all the time.
Translation: we're at least distantly aware of the fact that we don't have a viable tablet strategy, so we're hoping the market evolves towards what we do have, instead of us having to move towards the market.
It actually isn't a bad strategy. At this point they are no where near ready to compete on Apple's terms with a tablet so why not try to use what they have to offer an alternative. I mean sure you can have that 'room' with a tablet as a control but does that have to be the only way. Could you also have it via a combo of voice, built in keypad controller and a remote like the Kinnect or your phone. Sure you could, if it is done that way. Sounds like Microsoft is thinking they will try.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacksons
The model is that you give them 12.50 a month (on a yearly subscription) and you get 10 songs every month that you can remove the DRM and keep forever and play on any number of devices. You can also buy any additional songs just like on iTunes.
And as you mention, for the songs you don't want to own forever and purchase, you can download and play them on your devices. No additional cost.
Not exactly. You get 10 songs a month you can remove the DRM and keep forever. The rest is yours to 'borrow' for 12.50 a month. If you stop paying you lose that music. That's hardly 'no additional cost'
It actually isn't a bad strategy. At this point they are no where near ready to compete on Apple's terms with a tablet so why not try to use what they have to offer an alternative. I mean sure you can have that 'room' with a tablet as a control but does that have to be the only way. Could you also have it via a combo of voice, built in keypad controller and a remote like the Kinnect or your phone. Sure you could, if it is done that way. Sounds like Microsoft is thinking they will try.
I find it hard to believe that if MS isn't ready to compete on tablets that they'll find a way to completely reinvent computer interaction. What problem does this solve? I need to write an email, so I do what? Wave my arms, toggle a remote and shout across the room?
If you haven't tried it you should. Especially with wireless synching. Your device is always updated with the latest music, pod casts or whatever. No need to phisically connect it to iTunes all the time.
Yeah, no thanks. I've never downloaded anything from iTunes either. There's no way in hell I'd pay money for anything that was less than CD quality, or losslessly compressed from there. Apple (and everybody else) has jumped the gun on this "download only" model by decades (and by the plural, I don't mean just two.)
It could be a fad, or it could be a new phase of computing. I think we need to figure out how this form factor is being used before we start judging its viability. We don't know if large numbers of people are going to get tired of keyboard-less touchscreen devices or if they are going to embrace them over the long haul. The fact is, it's a form factor that has gone mainstream in just the past year and we are still in the process of figuring out how it fits into our lives. One thing I do know, Apple's approach of using a touchscreen mobile OS instead of Microsoft using a non-touchscreen desktop OS is more appropriate for a touchscreen device where applications (er, apps) are designed to be used with the touchscreen form factor instead of a keyboard and mouse.
YEAH addabox.... Mundie and the majority of the Klan at Nokiasoft are so clue-free I'm amazed they even know what a tablet or smartphone looks like..!!!
Yeah, no thanks. I've never downloaded anything from iTunes either. There's no way in hell I'd pay money for anything that was less than CD quality, or losslessly compressed from there. Apple (and everybody else) has jumped the gun on this "download only" model by decades (and by the plural, I don't mean just two.)
Another so called audiophile who has his head up his bum.
iTunes music IS CD quality. While not truly lossless (that would make it ridiculously huge downloads - roughly 20-30MB per song) it still retains the quality. In fact there have been a number of tests that have shown that while slightly different to the original CD audio file the iTunes songs are pretty close. Most people can't tell, it only seems to be the people who have had their ears surgically replaced with dog's ears that seem to be the ones who can pick it up.
iTunes aims for the consumers not the purists so Apple is way ahead of the game.
Another so called audiophile who has his head up his bum.
iTunes music IS CD quality. While not truly lossless (that would make it ridiculously huge downloads - roughly 20-30MB per song) it still retains the quality. In fact there have been a number of tests that have shown that while slightly different to the original CD audio file the iTunes songs are pretty close. Most people can't tell, it only seems to be the people who have had their ears surgically replaced with dog's ears that seem to be the ones who can pick it up.
iTunes aims for the consumers not the purists so Apple is way ahead of the game.
Apple has created a generation of tin-eared dolts, is what I think you meant to say.
But since quality audio equipment is now unobtainable, and people are paying serious money for "surround-sound audio centers" or whatever with 9% total harmonic distortion when .1% was entry-level 40 years ago, I guess it doesn't matter.
Oddly enough, While I don't really agree with MS, I also don't agree with most of the posters here either.
The major issue is that one type of machine doesn't necessarily replace another outright. The PC has been the dominant (not not the only) type of computer for many years. "Post-PC" doesn't mean that it is dead, just that it's glory days are over. It isn't going away, and probably will continue to be what most people think of when they hear "computer".
To make a point, here is a list of the types of computing devices that are out there today:
Workhorse:
- Supercomputer
- Server / Cloud
- Workstation ("PC")
Casual Use:
- Smart Phone
- Tablet
- Game Console
Special-Purpose
- Media Player (iPod, Roku, connected TV, etc)
- e-Reader
- Navigation
- Point-of-Sale Terminal
- Kiosk
- Calculator
Embedded
- Appliances
- Automotive
- Machine Controls
Note that these categories are complex, general purpose, and expensive at one end, and simple, specific, and cheap on the other. I also expect that the middle of the list is where the most growth will happen in the future.
Microsoft has absolutely dominated the Workhorse category, and with the exception of the Xbox, has struggled in all others. Without a doubt, they are interested in all these categories (See Zune, Media Center, Surface, Sync, Windows CE Embedded, and the little reported fact that MS does the engine control software for Formula 1 cars).
The problem is that Windows is a "Workhorse" OS, and is not well-suited to the simpler devices, yet at the top they are too focused on their "Windows Everywhere" strategy.
Apple has shown the world that a different OS is needed to fit a different device category. (To be fair, Microsoft did try this years ago with Windows CE; the problem was that it was a simplified desktop, not a new interface. The poor sales were just interpreted as meaning people don't want those devices.)
No one is really saying that they are irrelevant. But churning out plastic pieces of crap, with low margins, doesn't really make you a super-star. And honestly, any company that had Carly Fiorina running it ... ouch.
This bit about there being more trucks than cars in the early years of the automobile industry has popped up again. It's simply not true, but let's not let facts get in the way of a good metaphor.
Yours
Vern
Not to mention the fact that the best selling vehicle is a truck... aside from a couple monthly data, it has been for years.
I'm wondering how many tens of millions of iPads Apple needs to sell, how many billions of dollars they need to make from those sales, before it isn't a "fad" anymore.
As someone else said upthread, I love my iPhone. I use it all the time. But to think that it's going to replace my 27" iMac ... no. Just no.
And with the addition of ATV2, AirPlay, my iPad ... the "room" is practically a computer already.
I get that Microsoft doesn't have a foothold in the tablet arena. I get that this probably irritates them. But seriously? You don't need to make a fool out of yourself in order to try and deal with those issues.
I don't think quoting sales numbers is a good way to say if something is a 'fad' or not. case in point, the netbook, which many of us (myself included) consider a 'fad' sold over 30 million units in 2009 IIRC.
It's funny, just yesterday I was reading an article on the input problem with tablets on AT. I definitely think this is a problem tablets have to solve if they want true mainstream adoption.
I would argue there is no 'tablet strategy'. There is simply a personal computer strategy, you either have it or you don't. I don't believe Microsoft has a strategy for the personal computer: they have their successful history, they have R&D, and they have nerds invested and interested in certain kinds of technologies. But this is not a strategy.
Comments
So when the Zune went away, didn't everybody lose all that music they thought they "bought", but only "subscribed" to? Or am I misunderstanding the business model? It would be the second time MS screwed everybody over like that (Plays4Sure), so I bet I'm not. I'd be mad as hell, but somehow I'm sure it's all Apple's fault.
You are misunderstanding the business model. And it did not go away: http://www.zune.net
They stopped making the Zune player hardware. The Zune software is used in WP7 and XBox 360 and PC.
The model is that you give them 12.50 a month (on a yearly subscription) and you get 10 songs every month that you can remove the DRM and keep forever and play on any number of devices. You can also buy any additional songs just like on iTunes.
And as you mention, for the songs you don't want to own forever and purchase, you can download and play them on your devices. No additional cost.
If you haven't tried it you should. Especially with wireless synching. Your device is always updated with the latest music, pod casts or whatever. No need to phisically connect it to iTunes all the time.
Translation: we're at least distantly aware of the fact that we don't have a viable tablet strategy, so we're hoping the market evolves towards what we do have, instead of us having to move towards the market.
It actually isn't a bad strategy. At this point they are no where near ready to compete on Apple's terms with a tablet so why not try to use what they have to offer an alternative. I mean sure you can have that 'room' with a tablet as a control but does that have to be the only way. Could you also have it via a combo of voice, built in keypad controller and a remote like the Kinnect or your phone. Sure you could, if it is done that way. Sounds like Microsoft is thinking they will try.
The model is that you give them 12.50 a month (on a yearly subscription) and you get 10 songs every month that you can remove the DRM and keep forever and play on any number of devices. You can also buy any additional songs just like on iTunes.
And as you mention, for the songs you don't want to own forever and purchase, you can download and play them on your devices. No additional cost.
Not exactly. You get 10 songs a month you can remove the DRM and keep forever. The rest is yours to 'borrow' for 12.50 a month. If you stop paying you lose that music. That's hardly 'no additional cost'
It actually isn't a bad strategy. At this point they are no where near ready to compete on Apple's terms with a tablet so why not try to use what they have to offer an alternative. I mean sure you can have that 'room' with a tablet as a control but does that have to be the only way. Could you also have it via a combo of voice, built in keypad controller and a remote like the Kinnect or your phone. Sure you could, if it is done that way. Sounds like Microsoft is thinking they will try.
I find it hard to believe that if MS isn't ready to compete on tablets that they'll find a way to completely reinvent computer interaction. What problem does this solve? I need to write an email, so I do what? Wave my arms, toggle a remote and shout across the room?
If you haven't tried it you should. Especially with wireless synching. Your device is always updated with the latest music, pod casts or whatever. No need to phisically connect it to iTunes all the time.
Yeah, no thanks. I've never downloaded anything from iTunes either. There's no way in hell I'd pay money for anything that was less than CD quality, or losslessly compressed from there. Apple (and everybody else) has jumped the gun on this "download only" model by decades (and by the plural, I don't mean just two.)
Microsoft's chief research and strategy officer
Microsoft is going to die soon if this is how their chief research and strategy officer thinks.
MS: 87% of worldwide PC market
It used to be 95%. I'd say becoming irrelevant.
YEAH addabox.... Mundie and the majority of the Klan at Nokiasoft are so clue-free I'm amazed they even know what a tablet or smartphone looks like..!!!
Remember Dell thinks it needs a mouse!
It used to be 95%. I'd say becoming irrelevant.
And it's going to happen very fast. LPs, 8 Tracks, CDs, .....
One day soon MS will wake up and find very few people use PCs anymore and Ballmer will be heard saying W**?
Yeah, no thanks. I've never downloaded anything from iTunes either. There's no way in hell I'd pay money for anything that was less than CD quality, or losslessly compressed from there. Apple (and everybody else) has jumped the gun on this "download only" model by decades (and by the plural, I don't mean just two.)
Another so called audiophile who has his head up his bum.
iTunes music IS CD quality. While not truly lossless (that would make it ridiculously huge downloads - roughly 20-30MB per song) it still retains the quality. In fact there have been a number of tests that have shown that while slightly different to the original CD audio file the iTunes songs are pretty close. Most people can't tell, it only seems to be the people who have had their ears surgically replaced with dog's ears that seem to be the ones who can pick it up.
iTunes aims for the consumers not the purists so Apple is way ahead of the game.
Another so called audiophile who has his head up his bum.
iTunes music IS CD quality. While not truly lossless (that would make it ridiculously huge downloads - roughly 20-30MB per song) it still retains the quality. In fact there have been a number of tests that have shown that while slightly different to the original CD audio file the iTunes songs are pretty close. Most people can't tell, it only seems to be the people who have had their ears surgically replaced with dog's ears that seem to be the ones who can pick it up.
iTunes aims for the consumers not the purists so Apple is way ahead of the game.
Apple has created a generation of tin-eared dolts, is what I think you meant to say.
But since quality audio equipment is now unobtainable, and people are paying serious money for "surround-sound audio centers" or whatever with 9% total harmonic distortion when .1% was entry-level 40 years ago, I guess it doesn't matter.
The major issue is that one type of machine doesn't necessarily replace another outright. The PC has been the dominant (not not the only) type of computer for many years. "Post-PC" doesn't mean that it is dead, just that it's glory days are over. It isn't going away, and probably will continue to be what most people think of when they hear "computer".
To make a point, here is a list of the types of computing devices that are out there today:
Workhorse:
- Supercomputer
- Server / Cloud
- Workstation ("PC")
Casual Use:
- Smart Phone
- Tablet
- Game Console
Special-Purpose
- Media Player (iPod, Roku, connected TV, etc)
- e-Reader
- Navigation
- Point-of-Sale Terminal
- Kiosk
- Calculator
Embedded
- Appliances
- Automotive
- Machine Controls
Note that these categories are complex, general purpose, and expensive at one end, and simple, specific, and cheap on the other. I also expect that the middle of the list is where the most growth will happen in the future.
Microsoft has absolutely dominated the Workhorse category, and with the exception of the Xbox, has struggled in all others. Without a doubt, they are interested in all these categories (See Zune, Media Center, Surface, Sync, Windows CE Embedded, and the little reported fact that MS does the engine control software for Formula 1 cars).
The problem is that Windows is a "Workhorse" OS, and is not well-suited to the simpler devices, yet at the top they are too focused on their "Windows Everywhere" strategy.
Apple has shown the world that a different OS is needed to fit a different device category. (To be fair, Microsoft did try this years ago with Windows CE; the problem was that it was a simplified desktop, not a new interface. The poor sales were just interpreted as meaning people don't want those devices.)
MS: 87% of worldwide PC market
87% of what? If those pieces of crap being wheeled around hospitals count as part of that 87%, then big deal.
And Apple has 100b on MS in Market Cap. Just saying.
HP: #1 computer manufacturer
Margins = ? Market Cap = ?
Dell: #3 computer manufacturer
Margins = ? Market Cap = ?
Yep, those companies are totally irrelevant.
No one is really saying that they are irrelevant. But churning out plastic pieces of crap, with low margins, doesn't really make you a super-star. And honestly, any company that had Carly Fiorina running it ... ouch.
This bit about there being more trucks than cars in the early years of the automobile industry has popped up again. It's simply not true, but let's not let facts get in the way of a good metaphor.
Yours
Vern
Not to mention the fact that the best selling vehicle is a truck... aside from a couple monthly data, it has been for years.
I'm wondering how many tens of millions of iPads Apple needs to sell, how many billions of dollars they need to make from those sales, before it isn't a "fad" anymore.
As someone else said upthread, I love my iPhone. I use it all the time. But to think that it's going to replace my 27" iMac ... no. Just no.
And with the addition of ATV2, AirPlay, my iPad ... the "room" is practically a computer already.
I get that Microsoft doesn't have a foothold in the tablet arena. I get that this probably irritates them. But seriously? You don't need to make a fool out of yourself in order to try and deal with those issues.
I don't think quoting sales numbers is a good way to say if something is a 'fad' or not. case in point, the netbook, which many of us (myself included) consider a 'fad' sold over 30 million units in 2009 IIRC.
It's funny, just yesterday I was reading an article on the input problem with tablets on AT. I definitely think this is a problem tablets have to solve if they want true mainstream adoption.