This is lame. The courts ruled jailbreaking is legal. Therefore, Apple really had no grounds to ask Toyota to remove anything. And Toyota needs to grow a freakin pair already.
The people here saying jailbreaking equals piracy obviously don't understand technology and should be treated accordingly like the dumb n00bs that they are.
And for the record, I advocate piracy. (That's right, I said it.)
Really? Did you pay $699 or $799 for the phone? No? Congratulations, you bought a phone at a SUBSIDIZED price from AT&T. Meaning, it's not bought and paid for... your contract does that.
And I would gladly pay the unsubsidized rate; however, it is not available through APPLE or my carrier.
A big name corporation is endorsing jailbreaking. Apple didn't force them or demand or anything like that - they asked politely and Toyota complied.
Yep the conversation was probably something like
Apple: We understand that you released an iphone theme that requires jailbreaking
Toyota: Yep, we did
Apple: Despite an individual jailbreaking his or her phone is not illegal under current law, Apple does not feel it is an appropriate action and do not feel it appropriate to do business with companies that support jailbreaking. We would ask you to reconsider this particular action
After which Toyota decided that their cutesy theme wasn't worth getting rejected for apps, ads etc and pulled it
The people concerned with jailbreaking are such a small minority. Who really cares if they are pissed off or not.
really?
People like to push innovation, be creative, think different, be free.
Apple is declaring war on those 4 things... the same 4 things they used to champion.
If you would like an essay on the subject - there is an ocean of articles online regarding the topic.
So what has changed?
I'll tell you what... unrelenting, unimaginable seething greed.
Nowadays, if you want innovation, creative thinking, new perspectives, new ideas and the freedom to enjoy them... it will cost you an extortionist %30, or bully-tactic litigation, or even a hoard of paid thugs kicking down your door and taking all your computers.
The enthusiasts here are conflicted.
The investors here will defend Apple as long as the stock rises.
In my own opinion;
Apple is a victim of their own success. One compromise too many.
I think Steve had a very tough decision to make when the iPod came out:
1) Stand by your convictions. Good things do happen to good people and good companies.
2) Sell your soul to Wall Street. The money and power is awesome.
10 years ago, the Toyota customized theme would be on Apple's front page and showcased by Steve himself at Macworld.
Yeah I was wondering what amazing "relationship" they need to maintain with Apple. iPhone and iPod compatibility with their cars is very important to them, I guess? Who knows what happens behind closed doors anyway. Modern corporate business eludes my comprehension nowadays.
That and working together on technologies that combine Apple's devices with Toyota's cars would be hampered.
Maybe Toyota doesn't want any apps it may make rejected from the App Store... This could be their primary concern. It's a huge company, apps are very important marketing tools now. BTW do they have any apps out yet?
People like to push innovation, be creative, think different, be free.
Apple is declaring war on those 4 things... the same 4 things they used to champion.
If you would like an essay on the subject - there is an ocean of articles online regarding the topic.
So what has changed?
I'll tell you what... unrelenting, unimaginable seething greed.
Nowadays, if you want innovation, creative thinking, new perspectives, new ideas and the freedom to enjoy them... it will cost you an extortionist %30, or bully-tactic litigation, or even a hoard of paid thugs kicking down your door and taking all your computers.
The enthusiasts here are conflicted.
The investors here will defend Apple as long as the stock rises.
In my own opinion;
Apple is a victim of their own success. One compromise too many.
I think Steve had a very tough decision to make when the iPod came out:
1) Stand by your convictions. Good things do happen to good people and good companies.
2) Sell your soul to Wall Street. The money and power is awesome.
10 years ago, the Toyota customized theme would be on Apple's front page and showcased by Steve himself at Macworld.
Today...
Yeah and Google and Microsoft are even better. Big corporate dominates now. I do feel conflicted somehow. At least the products Apple makes are still a class above the others which are generic crappy facsimiles.
CDMA phones arn't "Locked" in the sense your thinking of anyway. CDMA carriers keep the ESN of approved devices in their network to prevent unauthorized devices from gaining access. The only way to stop this would be to require that all CDMA ESN's be added to every carrier, which I don't see the goverment doing since Verizon is transitioning to LTE (and sprint will be either wimax or LTE). It would be like them passing legislation on edge only devices.
You "unlock" a CDMA phone by either getting someone with the carrier to add the ESN, or by flashing the software to "spoof" the ESN to something the network will recognize.
Now, one of the requirements of verizon's LTE spectrum is that it allow "unlocked" devices on the network, so this won't change too soon.
So in other words the issue of handset locking is a carrier issue and not an Apple issue.
Btw thanks for the explanation of CDMA phones, in eighteen years of mobile phone use I've only ever used GSM phones, some locked, some unlocked, it's something that has been around long before iPhones existed.
Maybe Toyota doesn't want any apps it may make rejected from the App Store... This could be their primary concern. It's a huge company, apps are very important marketing tools now. BTW do they have any apps out yet?
Yeh, putting that Scion theme on Cydia probably wasn't worth getting Lexus apps excluded from the App Store...
The people concerned with jailbreaking are such a small minority. Who really cares if they are pissed off or not.
You're right in that we arent the majority, but I believe that Jay Freeman stated once that about 10% of all iPhones sold have had cydia installed on them at some point. That's a pretty big number. As far as us being pissed off I think it's the unjailbroken users that should be pissed off more often. The jailbreak community has exploited weaknesses and then closed those exploits far faster than Apple has on a number of occasions. Alot has been said about jailbreaking causing security vulnerabilities and that's completely false on so many levels. Every single public exploit not used by a jailbreak team has affected every iPhone sold, jailbreaking has had nothing to do with general security of the iPhone being compromised and on a few occasions made it more secure before Apple did. Every jailbreak has required physical access to the device, meaning at that point there isn't any security, and every other security bug could be exploited on any iPhone jailbroken or not. Peoole can bellyache all they want and call us dirty thieving pirates till they're blue in the face, jailbreaking makes iPhones more secure by way of the act itself.
EDIT:correction, neither jailbreakme.com exploits required a computer but did require physical access. Also wanted to add once an iPhone is freshly jailbroken it is impossible to take files off of it remotely because SSH isn't installed by default anymore. The Dutch prank or whoever they were using SSH to change the lockscreen background to something warning about security can't happen in the US because you can't use SSH over a carrier data network. Another sensationalized story that had no facts in it or objective reporting.
Amazing! That design looks like Apple gone wrong... its like some Russian MP3 download site Nothing against Russians but if you go to those sites you know what I mean hahah
Apple is declaring war on innovation and creativity?
If the jailbreaking community is so imaginative and creative why did they not come up with the iPhone. I see no innovation or creativity in riding the success of someone else work.
Would you not agree?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mode
really?
People like to push innovation, be creative, think different, be free.
Apple is declaring war on those 4 things... the same 4 things they used to champion.
If you would like an essay on the subject - there is an ocean of articles online regarding the topic.
You're right in that we arent the majority, but I believe that Jay Freeman stated once that about 10% of all iPhones sold have had cydia installed on them at some point. That's a pretty big number.
Not a significant enough number that Apple has to cater to what they want. I'd guarantee most of those people do not continue to jailbreak their phones with every OS update.
Quote:
As far as us being pissed off I think it's the unjailbroken users that should be pissed off more often. The jailbreak community has exploited weaknesses and then closed those exploits far faster than Apple has on a number of occasions.
This would be of importance if any of those security weaknesses had been regularly compromised and exploited. Since they haven't few non-jailbreakers care that much about how quickly they are patched.
Apple is declaring war on innovation and creativity?
If the jailbreaking community is so imaginative and creative why did they not come up with the iPhone. I see no innovation or creativity in riding the success of someone else work.
Would you not agree?
No I wouldn't. There are some very very bad things about iOS and the jailbreak developers have created both content and apps that far surpass what Apple has done with the iPhone. If your example were the case then no app developer has ever innovated because they've all piggybacked on a system that already existed. Have you not used any jailbreak apps? The biteSMS app far far surpasses the stock SMS app in every aspect and has for a very long time. I don't see Apple changing anything there in the future. I highly doubt iOS5 will include the ability to change text and email tones because there have been no changes on that since the iPhone came out in 2007. Certain aspects of iOS are terrible and the jailbreak community have either made it better or completely fixed the issues for years now. I'd suggest at least trying some of the changes that jailbreaking brings, might change your mind and improve your experience.
Not a significant enough number that Apple has to cater to what they want. I'd guarantee most of those people do not continue to jailbreak their phones with every OS update.
I'd dispute that with a figure but I really can't because I don't have access to Jay Freemans numbers on jailbroken phones. All I can say is that I'd bet there are alot more than meets the eye from experience in jailbreaking since the end of 2007. There are many many websites and forums dedicated to jailbreaking and a new jailbreak is always big news. Major websites are just getting into reporting on it more often. Do you like having popups disrupt what you are doing? Do you like having the same system sounds as the other millions and millions of iPhone owners? Do you like having to switch apps completely to send a text reply that is one word? Do you like having to drill three menus deep to change one setting? These are alls things that no Iphone owner likes and this is what jailbreaking fixes, among many others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell
This would be of importance if any of those security weaknesses had been regularly compromised and exploited. Since they haven't few non-jailbreakers care that much about how quickly they are patched.
The non-jailbreakers not caring is not the fault of anyone but themselves. There have been multiple exploits that weren't related to jailbreaking and were patched by jailbreak devs long before Apple did and they were more secure because of it. Not to mention that jailbreakers are constantly raked over the coals about security issues (being the biggest risk and causing theft of user information) and that's completely false. There have been many times when a jailbroken iPhone has been more secure than a stock one. I think you missed my point or maybe I didn't convey it clearly enough. What I was getting at is all the FUD about jailbreaking is getting old and out of hand when there are multiple cases of an exploit being found that doesn't require a jailbreak, thus jailbreaking isn't the main reason of iPhone insecurity and should stop being treated as such. The amount of BS being spread by people who've never jailbroken, don't know what it entails and only read short, unresearched blurbs on tech sites are spreading it further and further is both laughable and scary from a common sense standpoint. It seems that people would sooner smear jailbreakers with accusations of theft (piracy does happen and it's unfortunate it does) to getting killed for stealing computers at gunpoint (which was done in this very thread) than spend ten minutes in Google and find out the truth. It's asinine and stupid, I wish it would stop.
No I wouldn't. There are some very very bad things about iOS and the jailbreak developers have created both content and apps that far surpass what Apple has done with the iPhone.
Again if the jailbreakers are so innovative and creative, why did they not create iOS?
I see nothing innovative about altering iOS or changing the way the UI works. Its easy to criticize and throw rocks at the people who are actually doing things.
I would be impressed if they built something truly better than iOS.
Quote:
If your example were the case then no app developer has ever innovated because they've all piggybacked on a system that already existed. Have you not used any jailbreak apps?
Yes the developers are piggybacking on Apple's work. Apple created the entire user experience and framework, the developer isn't doing any of that work, the developer is creating on top of that.
Quote:
The biteSMS app far far surpasses the stock SMS app in every aspect and has for a very long time. I don't see Apple changing anything there in the future. I highly doubt iOS5 will include the ability to change text and email tones because there have been no changes on that since the iPhone came out in 2007. Certain aspects of iOS are terrible and the jailbreak community have either made it better or completely fixed the issues for years now. I'd suggest at least trying some of the changes that jailbreaking brings, might change your mind and improve your experience.
The rest of what you are saying is just opinionated fluff. What you are talking about is akin to painting eye brows on the Mona Lisa and then claiming that its so much better than what the original artist had done. I want to see them actually create something that doesn't stand on the shoulders of someone else's work.
Comments
The people here saying jailbreaking equals piracy obviously don't understand technology and should be treated accordingly like the dumb n00bs that they are.
And for the record, I advocate piracy. (That's right, I said it.)
Really? Did you pay $699 or $799 for the phone? No? Congratulations, you bought a phone at a SUBSIDIZED price from AT&T. Meaning, it's not bought and paid for... your contract does that.
And I would gladly pay the unsubsidized rate; however, it is not available through APPLE or my carrier.
This is lame. The courts ruled jailbreaking is legal.
No court ever ruled jailbreaking is legal. The Library of Congress ruled that jailbreaking doesn't violate the DMCA.
Apple didn't force them or demand or anything like that - they asked politely and Toyota complied.
A big name corporation is endorsing jailbreaking. Apple didn't force them or demand or anything like that - they asked politely and Toyota complied.
Yep the conversation was probably something like
Apple: We understand that you released an iphone theme that requires jailbreaking
Toyota: Yep, we did
Apple: Despite an individual jailbreaking his or her phone is not illegal under current law, Apple does not feel it is an appropriate action and do not feel it appropriate to do business with companies that support jailbreaking. We would ask you to reconsider this particular action
After which Toyota decided that their cutesy theme wasn't worth getting rejected for apps, ads etc and pulled it
No bullying needed
The people concerned with jailbreaking are such a small minority. Who really cares if they are pissed off or not.
People like to push innovation, be creative, think different, be free.
Apple is declaring war on those 4 things... the same 4 things they used to champion.
If you would like an essay on the subject - there is an ocean of articles online regarding the topic.
So what has changed?
I'll tell you what... unrelenting, unimaginable seething greed.
Nowadays, if you want innovation, creative thinking, new perspectives, new ideas and the freedom to enjoy them... it will cost you an extortionist %30, or bully-tactic litigation, or even a hoard of paid thugs kicking down your door and taking all your computers.
The enthusiasts here are conflicted.
The investors here will defend Apple as long as the stock rises.
In my own opinion;
Apple is a victim of their own success. One compromise too many.
I think Steve had a very tough decision to make when the iPod came out:
1) Stand by your convictions. Good things do happen to good people and good companies.
2) Sell your soul to Wall Street. The money and power is awesome.
10 years ago, the Toyota customized theme would be on Apple's front page and showcased by Steve himself at Macworld.
Today...
After which Toyota decided that their cutesy theme wasn't worth getting rejected for apps, ads etc and pulled it
No bullying needed
That and working together on technologies that combine Apple's devices with Toyota's cars would be hampered.
And Toyota needs to grow a freakin pair already.
Yeah I was wondering what amazing "relationship" they need to maintain with Apple. iPhone and iPod compatibility with their cars is very important to them, I guess? Who knows what happens behind closed doors anyway. Modern corporate business eludes my comprehension nowadays.
That and working together on technologies that combine Apple's devices with Toyota's cars would be hampered.
Maybe Toyota doesn't want any apps it may make rejected from the App Store...
People like to push innovation, be creative, think different, be free.
Apple is declaring war on those 4 things... the same 4 things they used to champion.
If you would like an essay on the subject - there is an ocean of articles online regarding the topic.
So what has changed?
I'll tell you what... unrelenting, unimaginable seething greed.
Nowadays, if you want innovation, creative thinking, new perspectives, new ideas and the freedom to enjoy them... it will cost you an extortionist %30, or bully-tactic litigation, or even a hoard of paid thugs kicking down your door and taking all your computers.
The enthusiasts here are conflicted.
The investors here will defend Apple as long as the stock rises.
In my own opinion;
Apple is a victim of their own success. One compromise too many.
I think Steve had a very tough decision to make when the iPod came out:
1) Stand by your convictions. Good things do happen to good people and good companies.
2) Sell your soul to Wall Street. The money and power is awesome.
10 years ago, the Toyota customized theme would be on Apple's front page and showcased by Steve himself at Macworld.
Today...
Yeah and Google and Microsoft are even better. Big corporate dominates now. I do feel conflicted somehow. At least the products Apple makes are still a class above the others which are generic crappy facsimiles.
CDMA phones arn't "Locked" in the sense your thinking of anyway. CDMA carriers keep the ESN of approved devices in their network to prevent unauthorized devices from gaining access. The only way to stop this would be to require that all CDMA ESN's be added to every carrier, which I don't see the goverment doing since Verizon is transitioning to LTE (and sprint will be either wimax or LTE). It would be like them passing legislation on edge only devices.
You "unlock" a CDMA phone by either getting someone with the carrier to add the ESN, or by flashing the software to "spoof" the ESN to something the network will recognize.
Now, one of the requirements of verizon's LTE spectrum is that it allow "unlocked" devices on the network, so this won't change too soon.
So in other words the issue of handset locking is a carrier issue and not an Apple issue.
Btw thanks for the explanation of CDMA phones, in eighteen years of mobile phone use I've only ever used GSM phones, some locked, some unlocked, it's something that has been around long before iPhones existed.
Maybe Toyota doesn't want any apps it may make rejected from the App Store...
Yeh, putting that Scion theme on Cydia probably wasn't worth getting Lexus apps excluded from the App Store...
The people concerned with jailbreaking are such a small minority. Who really cares if they are pissed off or not.
You're right in that we arent the majority, but I believe that Jay Freeman stated once that about 10% of all iPhones sold have had cydia installed on them at some point. That's a pretty big number. As far as us being pissed off I think it's the unjailbroken users that should be pissed off more often. The jailbreak community has exploited weaknesses and then closed those exploits far faster than Apple has on a number of occasions. Alot has been said about jailbreaking causing security vulnerabilities and that's completely false on so many levels. Every single public exploit not used by a jailbreak team has affected every iPhone sold, jailbreaking has had nothing to do with general security of the iPhone being compromised and on a few occasions made it more secure before Apple did. Every jailbreak has required physical access to the device, meaning at that point there isn't any security, and every other security bug could be exploited on any iPhone jailbroken or not. Peoole can bellyache all they want and call us dirty thieving pirates till they're blue in the face, jailbreaking makes iPhones more secure by way of the act itself.
EDIT:correction, neither jailbreakme.com exploits required a computer but did require physical access. Also wanted to add once an iPhone is freshly jailbroken it is impossible to take files off of it remotely because SSH isn't installed by default anymore. The Dutch prank or whoever they were using SSH to change the lockscreen background to something warning about security can't happen in the US because you can't use SSH over a carrier data network. Another sensationalized story that had no facts in it or objective reporting.
If the jailbreaking community is so imaginative and creative why did they not come up with the iPhone. I see no innovation or creativity in riding the success of someone else work.
Would you not agree?
People like to push innovation, be creative, think different, be free.
Apple is declaring war on those 4 things... the same 4 things they used to champion.
If you would like an essay on the subject - there is an ocean of articles online regarding the topic.
You're right in that we arent the majority, but I believe that Jay Freeman stated once that about 10% of all iPhones sold have had cydia installed on them at some point. That's a pretty big number.
Not a significant enough number that Apple has to cater to what they want. I'd guarantee most of those people do not continue to jailbreak their phones with every OS update.
As far as us being pissed off I think it's the unjailbroken users that should be pissed off more often. The jailbreak community has exploited weaknesses and then closed those exploits far faster than Apple has on a number of occasions.
This would be of importance if any of those security weaknesses had been regularly compromised and exploited. Since they haven't few non-jailbreakers care that much about how quickly they are patched.
What other business model do you feel Apple should be following?
In my own opinion;
Apple is a victim of their own success. One compromise too many.
I think Steve had a very tough decision to make when the iPod came out:
1) Stand by your convictions. Good things do happen to good people and good companies.
2) Sell your soul to Wall Street. The money and power is awesome.
Apple is declaring war on innovation and creativity?
If the jailbreaking community is so imaginative and creative why did they not come up with the iPhone. I see no innovation or creativity in riding the success of someone else work.
Would you not agree?
No I wouldn't. There are some very very bad things about iOS and the jailbreak developers have created both content and apps that far surpass what Apple has done with the iPhone. If your example were the case then no app developer has ever innovated because they've all piggybacked on a system that already existed. Have you not used any jailbreak apps? The biteSMS app far far surpasses the stock SMS app in every aspect and has for a very long time. I don't see Apple changing anything there in the future. I highly doubt iOS5 will include the ability to change text and email tones because there have been no changes on that since the iPhone came out in 2007. Certain aspects of iOS are terrible and the jailbreak community have either made it better or completely fixed the issues for years now. I'd suggest at least trying some of the changes that jailbreaking brings, might change your mind and improve your experience.
Not a significant enough number that Apple has to cater to what they want. I'd guarantee most of those people do not continue to jailbreak their phones with every OS update.
I'd dispute that with a figure but I really can't because I don't have access to Jay Freemans numbers on jailbroken phones. All I can say is that I'd bet there are alot more than meets the eye from experience in jailbreaking since the end of 2007. There are many many websites and forums dedicated to jailbreaking and a new jailbreak is always big news. Major websites are just getting into reporting on it more often. Do you like having popups disrupt what you are doing? Do you like having the same system sounds as the other millions and millions of iPhone owners? Do you like having to switch apps completely to send a text reply that is one word? Do you like having to drill three menus deep to change one setting? These are alls things that no Iphone owner likes and this is what jailbreaking fixes, among many others.
This would be of importance if any of those security weaknesses had been regularly compromised and exploited. Since they haven't few non-jailbreakers care that much about how quickly they are patched.
The non-jailbreakers not caring is not the fault of anyone but themselves. There have been multiple exploits that weren't related to jailbreaking and were patched by jailbreak devs long before Apple did and they were more secure because of it. Not to mention that jailbreakers are constantly raked over the coals about security issues (being the biggest risk and causing theft of user information) and that's completely false. There have been many times when a jailbroken iPhone has been more secure than a stock one. I think you missed my point or maybe I didn't convey it clearly enough. What I was getting at is all the FUD about jailbreaking is getting old and out of hand when there are multiple cases of an exploit being found that doesn't require a jailbreak, thus jailbreaking isn't the main reason of iPhone insecurity and should stop being treated as such. The amount of BS being spread by people who've never jailbroken, don't know what it entails and only read short, unresearched blurbs on tech sites are spreading it further and further is both laughable and scary from a common sense standpoint. It seems that people would sooner smear jailbreakers with accusations of theft (piracy does happen and it's unfortunate it does) to getting killed for stealing computers at gunpoint (which was done in this very thread) than spend ten minutes in Google and find out the truth. It's asinine and stupid, I wish it would stop.
No I wouldn't. There are some very very bad things about iOS and the jailbreak developers have created both content and apps that far surpass what Apple has done with the iPhone.
Again if the jailbreakers are so innovative and creative, why did they not create iOS?
I see nothing innovative about altering iOS or changing the way the UI works. Its easy to criticize and throw rocks at the people who are actually doing things.
I would be impressed if they built something truly better than iOS.
If your example were the case then no app developer has ever innovated because they've all piggybacked on a system that already existed. Have you not used any jailbreak apps?
Yes the developers are piggybacking on Apple's work. Apple created the entire user experience and framework, the developer isn't doing any of that work, the developer is creating on top of that.
The biteSMS app far far surpasses the stock SMS app in every aspect and has for a very long time. I don't see Apple changing anything there in the future. I highly doubt iOS5 will include the ability to change text and email tones because there have been no changes on that since the iPhone came out in 2007. Certain aspects of iOS are terrible and the jailbreak community have either made it better or completely fixed the issues for years now. I'd suggest at least trying some of the changes that jailbreaking brings, might change your mind and improve your experience.
The rest of what you are saying is just opinionated fluff. What you are talking about is akin to painting eye brows on the Mona Lisa and then claiming that its so much better than what the original artist had done. I want to see them actually create something that doesn't stand on the shoulders of someone else's work.