It's done all the time. I think they call it a lost leader. When iTunes started they lost money. They just paid out about $300 million rounded for SoundJam and brand to their liking. I would assume they still don't make much profit with the major share of that $1.1B going to the various studios, but their plan was to capture the MP3 player market. It was a means to an end for Apple. Anything else is gravy. They'll do again in the TV market but I suppose not as big as the iPod.
iTunes is not a loss leader, Apple does not loose money from iTunes. Apple has used that investment in Sound Jam to build an ecosystem that has earned them multiple billions of revenue.
Again you've laid out no plan for how they can build their own content ecosystem around a television.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljocampo
I'm not sure the television industry (i.e. content providers) is relevant to Apple's TV plans (if there are any). Apple know people will get the TV and or video content and rip it or DVR it to their personal library. Apple will effectively sell a library management system for you living room and at the same time make a ton of money on games, family apps, educational apps, and what ever developers innovate.
And Apple will sidestep the limiting factor of such tactics by broadcast networks and hollywood. Apple doesn't care where you get your movies and TV from. They make money on hardware & software systems in a closed ecosystem.
If Apple did not care about the television industry why did they create iTunes? Why did Apple just not use some other system for content on its consumer devices?
Where have you seen example of Apple developing a consumer gadget and leaving it up peoples own devices to get content for it?
Why would Apple go through all of the effort to create iTunes and then not care where you get your movies from?
You really cannot see how you are not making any sense?
As Tenobell has pointed out in this thread, Apple is by far the best at using software (OS and apps) and now content (music, video, films, books, etc.) to sell elegantly engineered and closely aligned hardware. Doesn't make 'em invincible, but they've built an amazing enterprise on a timeless and basic premise. Which has been used "all the time" by businesses - but seldom this well on this scale.
Agreed......
Quote:
Which division of Apple, full circle, is not necessarily divorced from Apple's push into the final frontier of the living room. Which again, to me, points away from a few bulky TV's fighting for shelf space (too big a razor, too few blades) and more towards ways to turn many 10's of millions of other maker's TV's essentially into Apple terminals as I believe Solipsism is arguing. At which point, the market might then be primed and ripe for a "real Apple TV."
I’d like to point out that I think Apple owns the living room. What they do not own is the home entertainment center (HEC). It’s semantics to be sure, but the usage was coined long before we had portable CE that could access the internet, play games, etc. right from our favourite chair. Apple has this down flat with the iPod, iPhone and iPad.
iTunes is not a loss leader, Apple does not loose money from iTunes.
You really cannot see how you are not making any sense?
Apple doesn't loose money because they have it plently tightened up. Please remember there is a difference between loose and lose, especially when you want to question someone making sense...
I?d like to point out that I think Apple owns the living room. What they do not own is the home entertainment center (HEC). It?s semantics to be sure, but the usage was coined long before we had portable CE that could access the internet, play games, etc. right from our favourite chair. Apple has this down flat with the iPod, iPhone and iPad.
I think the distinction is that one is a fixture in a common living room, the other isn't, even if it is often used there, they're mobile devices.
I think the questions and challenges posted here have been too TV-centric so far (what could Apple add to the TV experience), and I think that line of questioning is faulty. When you think "TV" I believe most people think linear "shows" and available "channels."
What is Apple's vision for a fixed (unmoving), multi-user consumption device? I think is a better question. Though you could read that as "TV," you could also understand it to be "video conferencing center," home shopping kiosk," "gaming device," "digital whiteboard," etc...
None of which would be terribly difficult from a technical point of view and all of which makes it a much more interesting proposition.
I think the questions and challenges posted here have been too TV-centric so far (what could Apple add to the TV experience), and I think that line of questioning is faulty. When you think "TV" I believe most people think linear "shows" and available "channels."
What is Apple's vision for a fixed (unmoving), multi-user consumption device? I think is a better question. Though you could read that as "TV," you could also understand it to be "video conferencing center," home shopping kiosk," "gaming device," "digital whiteboard," etc...
None of which would be terribly difficult from a technical point of view and all of which makes it a much more interesting proposition.
My two cents.
This is part of why I thought something extra is needed for Apple to justify them making a TV. Just the obvious probably isn't near enough, and it doesn't make sense to enter a crowded market with a me-too product, it really needs something different. I'm not sure the examples you give are viable though.
The 27" iMac has a bi-directional Display Port. Apogee is rumored to be releasing an HDMI adapter which will theoretically allow you to input any HDMI source such as an xbox, blu ray, or cable tv to be viewable on the iMac.
Maybe the Apple HDTV is really just a 50" iMac.
Maybe...
The new Sony all-in-one quad core SandyBridge PC already has
- HDMI in, HDMI out
- HDTV tuner
- High Definition webcam with Exmor low-light image sensor
- multi-touch screen. Even bezel is multi-touch: use it to flip pages.
- remote
- wall mountable
And of course
- BluRay burner
- web only mode
- built-in speakers with S-Force surround sound
- Wi-Fi, wireless keyboard, stereo bluetooth
iMac can only do the last bullet point!
This Sony computer is only 24" for now - will they make a 55"? It would be a piece of cake for Sony.
The world breathlessly awaits Angry Birds in all its full 152" 4K/3D 7.1 plasma glory, just as God always intended.
Plus you need something to look at that gorgeous footage, errr, "fileage" you're shooting on your Red......
Wow. 152" plasma. I love plasma - I own Pioneer myself. Though plasma of that size would act as huge heater in the room which is may be OK if it is Chicago winter, but not in Florida
Wow. 152" plasma. I love plasma - I own Pioneer myself. Though plasma of that size would act as huge heater in the room which is may be OK if it is Chicago winter, but not in Florida
The iFurnace - the next stage in device convergence, LoLz.....
Show us proof. I don?t see these appliances as being ?done? in any way. Your plan means that I won?t be able to watch my HBO and Showtime original programming unless I rent/buy it from iTS or wait for Netflx to get the DVD/streaming rights.
Nielsen estimates show first drop in TV ownership in 20 years
"Nielsen only counts TVs that are capable of tuning into at least one channel. If you've cut the cord and gone all internet / Blu-ray / DVD without putting up an antenna or never upgraded for digital broadcasts (as some rural or low-income homes have not) then your TV doesn't count."
Comments
It's done all the time. I think they call it a lost leader. When iTunes started they lost money. They just paid out about $300 million rounded for SoundJam and brand to their liking. I would assume they still don't make much profit with the major share of that $1.1B going to the various studios, but their plan was to capture the MP3 player market. It was a means to an end for Apple. Anything else is gravy. They'll do again in the TV market but I suppose not as big as the iPod.
iTunes is not a loss leader, Apple does not loose money from iTunes. Apple has used that investment in Sound Jam to build an ecosystem that has earned them multiple billions of revenue.
Again you've laid out no plan for how they can build their own content ecosystem around a television.
I'm not sure the television industry (i.e. content providers) is relevant to Apple's TV plans (if there are any). Apple know people will get the TV and or video content and rip it or DVR it to their personal library. Apple will effectively sell a library management system for you living room and at the same time make a ton of money on games, family apps, educational apps, and what ever developers innovate.
And Apple will sidestep the limiting factor of such tactics by broadcast networks and hollywood. Apple doesn't care where you get your movies and TV from. They make money on hardware & software systems in a closed ecosystem.
If Apple did not care about the television industry why did they create iTunes? Why did Apple just not use some other system for content on its consumer devices?
Where have you seen example of Apple developing a consumer gadget and leaving it up peoples own devices to get content for it?
Why would Apple go through all of the effort to create iTunes and then not care where you get your movies from?
You really cannot see how you are not making any sense?
As Tenobell has pointed out in this thread, Apple is by far the best at using software (OS and apps) and now content (music, video, films, books, etc.) to sell elegantly engineered and closely aligned hardware. Doesn't make 'em invincible, but they've built an amazing enterprise on a timeless and basic premise. Which has been used "all the time" by businesses - but seldom this well on this scale.
Agreed......
Which division of Apple, full circle, is not necessarily divorced from Apple's push into the final frontier of the living room. Which again, to me, points away from a few bulky TV's fighting for shelf space (too big a razor, too few blades) and more towards ways to turn many 10's of millions of other maker's TV's essentially into Apple terminals as I believe Solipsism is arguing. At which point, the market might then be primed and ripe for a "real Apple TV."
Exactly........
iTunes is not a loss leader, Apple does not loose money from iTunes.
You really cannot see how you are not making any sense?
Apple doesn't loose money because they have it plently tightened up. Please remember there is a difference between loose and lose, especially when you want to question someone making sense...
I?d like to point out that I think Apple owns the living room. What they do not own is the home entertainment center (HEC). It?s semantics to be sure, but the usage was coined long before we had portable CE that could access the internet, play games, etc. right from our favourite chair. Apple has this down flat with the iPod, iPhone and iPad.
I think the distinction is that one is a fixture in a common living room, the other isn't, even if it is often used there, they're mobile devices.
What is Apple's vision for a fixed (unmoving), multi-user consumption device? I think is a better question. Though you could read that as "TV," you could also understand it to be "video conferencing center," home shopping kiosk," "gaming device," "digital whiteboard," etc...
None of which would be terribly difficult from a technical point of view and all of which makes it a much more interesting proposition.
My two cents.
I think the questions and challenges posted here have been too TV-centric so far (what could Apple add to the TV experience), and I think that line of questioning is faulty. When you think "TV" I believe most people think linear "shows" and available "channels."
What is Apple's vision for a fixed (unmoving), multi-user consumption device? I think is a better question. Though you could read that as "TV," you could also understand it to be "video conferencing center," home shopping kiosk," "gaming device," "digital whiteboard," etc...
None of which would be terribly difficult from a technical point of view and all of which makes it a much more interesting proposition.
My two cents.
This is part of why I thought something extra is needed for Apple to justify them making a TV. Just the obvious probably isn't near enough, and it doesn't make sense to enter a crowded market with a me-too product, it really needs something different. I'm not sure the examples you give are viable though.
The 27" iMac has a bi-directional Display Port. Apogee is rumored to be releasing an HDMI adapter which will theoretically allow you to input any HDMI source such as an xbox, blu ray, or cable tv to be viewable on the iMac.
Maybe the Apple HDTV is really just a 50" iMac.
Maybe...
The new Sony all-in-one quad core SandyBridge PC already has
- HDMI in, HDMI out
- HDTV tuner
- High Definition webcam with Exmor low-light image sensor
- multi-touch screen. Even bezel is multi-touch: use it to flip pages.
- remote
- wall mountable
And of course
- BluRay burner
- web only mode
- built-in speakers with S-Force surround sound
- Wi-Fi, wireless keyboard, stereo bluetooth
iMac can only do the last bullet point!
This Sony computer is only 24" for now - will they make a 55"? It would be a piece of cake for Sony.
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...specifications
Maybe...
The new Sony all-in-one quad core SandyBridge PC already has
- HDMI in, HDMI out
- HDTV tuner
- High Definition webcam with Exmor low-light image sensor
- multi-touch screen. Even bezel is multi-touch: use it to flip pages.
- remote
- wall mountable
And of course
- BluRay burner
- web only mode
- built-in speakers with S-Force surround sound
- Wi-Fi, wireless keyboard, stereo bluetooth
iMac can only do the last bullet point!
This Sony computer is only 24" for now - will they make a 55"? It would be a piece of cake for Sony.
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...specifications
Features are irrelevant. Experience is everything.
Maybe...
The new Sony all-in-one quad core SandyBridge PC already has
- HDMI in, HDMI out
- HDTV tuner
- High Definition webcam with Exmor low-light image sensor
- multi-touch screen. Even bezel is multi-touch: use it to flip pages.
- remote
- wall mountable
And of course
- BluRay burner
- web only mode
- built-in speakers with S-Force surround sound
- Wi-Fi, wireless keyboard, stereo bluetooth
iMac can only do the last bullet point!
This Sony computer is only 24" for now - will they make a 55"? It would be a piece of cake for Sony.
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...specifications
Nice little knick-knack, but why think so cheap and small?
$76K: http://gizmodo.com/#!5375522/want-a-...our-name-on-it
$500K+: http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/09/p...ips-this-fall/
The world breathlessly awaits Angry Birds in all its full 152" 4K/3D 7.1 plasma glory, just as God always intended.
Plus you need something to look at that gorgeous footage, errr, "fileage" you're shooting on your Red......
Nice little knick-knack, but why think so cheap and small?
$76K: http://gizmodo.com/#!5375522/want-a-...our-name-on-it
$500K+: http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/09/p...ips-this-fall/
The world breathlessly awaits Angry Birds in all its full 152" 4K/3D 7.1 plasma glory, just as God always intended.
Plus you need something to look at that gorgeous footage, errr, "fileage" you're shooting on your Red......
Wow. 152" plasma. I love plasma - I own Pioneer myself. Though plasma of that size would act as huge heater in the room which is may be OK if it is Chicago winter, but not in Florida
Features are irrelevant. Experience is everything.
Apparently features are relevant mstone who is asking for HDMI. The whole this thread is about features.
As for the experience, here is interesting multi-touch experience with new Sony
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXAVj...feature=fvwrel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtXWkg8wEHA&NR=1
Wow. 152" plasma. I love plasma - I own Pioneer myself. Though plasma of that size would act as huge heater in the room which is may be OK if it is Chicago winter, but not in Florida
The iFurnace - the next stage in device convergence, LoLz.....
I like one commenters position: "Let Apple redesign what a TV DOES, and let me choose the way I [?] DISPLAY it."
The iFurnace - the next stage in device convergence, LoLz.....
Show us proof. I don?t see these appliances as being ?done? in any way. Your plan means that I won?t be able to watch my HBO and Showtime original programming unless I rent/buy it from iTS or wait for Netflx to get the DVD/streaming rights.
I told you they were done
http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/03/n...in-20-years-m/
Nielsen estimates show first drop in TV ownership in 20 years
"Nielsen only counts TVs that are capable of tuning into at least one channel. If you've cut the cord and gone all internet / Blu-ray / DVD without putting up an antenna or never upgraded for digital broadcasts (as some rural or low-income homes have not) then your TV doesn't count."