Location tracking probe expands despite 2001 FCC law requiring all phones track users

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  • Reply 21 of 145
    rtdunhamrtdunham Posts: 428member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    ...While this data remains on the phone and is backed up to iTunes, press reports have portrayed it as being instantly delivered to Apple to maintain up to the minute reports of the exact location of the company's 189 million iOS devices...



    Since this is the crux of the matter, it would have been nice if this report had said "have incorrectly portrayed it..." if that's the case, or "have correctly pointed out that the information is instantly delivered..." if that, instead, is the case. Or, "it's currently unknown whether..."



    I think the author was trying to do one of those things, but the language only leaves me guessing.
  • Reply 22 of 145
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,508member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by magicj View Post


    Which would be why they're having Congressional hearings on the matter?



    For the same reasons why two people just sued Apple over it. Paranoia, and publicity. It's not as though politicians ever do things to gain publicity, is it? Perish the thought!
  • Reply 23 of 145
    jdsonicejdsonice Posts: 156member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macwise View Post


    AKA Elected officials are morons, the public are lemmings, and to find a man who can think for himself is like finding water in a desert. A welcome abstraction.



    You said it. They will never let any opportunity to get themselves in the papers one way or the other by hook or by crook pass.



    I wish they would spend some time on fixing the problems we have instead of wasting it on this non-issiue.



    JDS
  • Reply 24 of 145
    eriamjheriamjh Posts: 1,615member
    Could someone please tell congress "It's the economy, stupid."? Stop wasting our time and start creating jobs.
  • Reply 25 of 145
    magicjmagicj Posts: 406member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    For the same reasons why two people just sued Apple over it. Paranoia, and publicity. It's not as though politicians ever do things to gain publicity, is it? Perish the thought!



    Well, as I understand it, the purpose of the hearings is to determine how this data is being used. Congress has not accused either Apple nor Google of wrong-doing, but rather they are seeking clarity on the policies.



    In the case of Apple, this data isn't covered by section 4B of their iPhone EULA because you can not turn off the collection process. Additionally, they've provided no reason why they would need an un-ending history of your movements, and the policy of making the data backups for this type of data unencrypted by default seems to be poorly thought out. It allows people other than Apple and its partners access to the data.



    So, to me, this seems like a needed exercise. Explain to the public why this data is being collected and exactly how it's being used and who else, other than Apple and it's partners, is allowed to use it. Then fix any bugs and correct any poorly thought out policies.
  • Reply 26 of 145
    freerangefreerange Posts: 1,597member
    Only complete morons think this is an issue. My god, my phone is collecting and storing my personal information and only on my own personal devices which I control! Oh, that's right, it's my email, contacts, personal documents, calendar, etc. etc. etc.



    Idiots abound!
  • Reply 27 of 145
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cameronj View Post


    Already does?



    The iPhone puts a specific location on iPhone photos.



    I meant I'd like iPhoto to take the iPhone location data and combine with my wife's Canon camera to get an approximate location for her shots. Better still to be extremely specific.
  • Reply 28 of 145
    magicjmagicj Posts: 406member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post


    Only complete morons think this is an issue. My god, my phone is collecting and storing my personal information and only on my own personal devices which I control! Oh, that's right, it's my email, contacts, personal documents, calendar, etc. etc. etc.



    Idiots abound!



    Apparently they do.



    You do realize you enter you contacts and such willingly, yes? They are not taken and recorded by Apple regardless of whether you want them to or not. And you do realize that Apple explicitly states, falsely, that it will not collect your location information if you don't want them to.
  • Reply 29 of 145
    freerangefreerange Posts: 1,597member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by magicj View Post


    A very poorly written article filled with so many bad pieces of information that I'm not going to spend time debunking it.



    I'll just say that, speaking as an small iPhone developer, my iPhone is now off and will stay off until this issue is resolved.



    Edit: please try to keep an even keel. Attack the idea, not the person.
  • Reply 30 of 145
    freerangefreerange Posts: 1,597member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by onigami View Post


    The most irrelevant news post I've seen in quite some time. Singular E911 triangulation for emergency services, needed in case a 911 call is dropped, is quite different from continuous data tracking and storage, which Apple is accused of doing. The only reason I can think this news piece was written was to provide the shoddy and flimsy defense that only a fanboy can provide.



    It's like those fanboys who blame the current PSN outage and data compromise on Anonymous, even though it's clearly a black hat or Russian who exploited Sony's incompetence with networks. Disgusting, really. This news post deserves removal for such unabashed dissociation with reality.



    Edit: last warning! Next time, a point will be awarded, and the post will be deleted.
  • Reply 31 of 145
    magicjmagicj Posts: 406member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Eriamjh View Post


    Could someone please tell congress "It's the economy, stupid."? Stop wasting our time and start creating jobs.



    If you haven't figured out by now that this administration doesn't care one bit about jobs (or debt, or wars), you're just not paying attention.
  • Reply 32 of 145
    freerangefreerange Posts: 1,597member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by magicj View Post


    Apparently they do.



    You do realize you enter you contacts and such willingly, yes? They are not taken and recorded by Apple regardless of whether you want them to or not. And you do realize that Apple explicitly states, falsely, that it will not collect your location information if you don't want them to.



    Irrelevant. It is still YOUR data stored on YOUR device, just like all your other data. Are you still hanging out in your parent's basement playing with yourself? You seem to have nothing better to do than to troll this site when we see you here.
  • Reply 33 of 145
    magicjmagicj Posts: 406member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post


    Irrelevant. It is still YOUR data stored on YOUR device, just like all your other data. Are you still hanging out in your parent's basement playing with yourself? You seem to have nothing better to do than to troll this site when we see you here.



    LOL! I don't think that's what Congress is going to want to hear.



    BTW, welcome to my ignore list.
  • Reply 34 of 145
    mrstepmrstep Posts: 511member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by magicj View Post


    ...

    And you do realize that Apple explicitly states, falsely, that it will not collect your location information if you don't want them to.



    And you do realize... Apple in fact correctly states that they won't collect your location information if you don't want them to, it just turns out the devices keep a log of that anyway. That could be anything from a debug log that someone left turned on by accident to an intentional decision for who knows what reason. <insert conspiracy theory here> - and given the fine laws passed in recent years, it may not need to be a conspiracy theory at this point.



    Though it would have made a lot more sense if they tracked location along with phone signal, and DID collect it in an anonymized way (no device id, maybe only day or week time stamp, etc.) in order to get their carriers information on where users are having reception problems, etc. Make it an opt-in/out as well.
  • Reply 35 of 145
    magicjmagicj Posts: 406member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mrstep View Post


    And you do realize... Apple in fact correctly states that they won't collect your location information if you don't want them to, it just turns out the devices keep a log of that anyway. That could be anything from a debug log that someone left turned on by accident to an intentional decision for who knows what reason. <insert conspiracy theory here> - and given the fine laws passed in recent years, it may not need to be a conspiracy theory at this point.



    Though it would have made a lot more sense if they tracked location along with phone signal, and DID collect it in an anonymized way (no device id, maybe only day or week time stamp, etc.) in order to get their carriers information on where users are having reception problems, etc. Make it an opt-in/out as well.



    Mrstep, keeping a log of data is collecting data.



    And as I said, Congress is not accusing Apple or Google of wrong doing. And neither am I. What they are asking for, and what I'd like to see, is an explanation of exactly what data is being collected, why it's being collected, and who is allowed access to it.



    From there we can say whether or not we agree with the policies or feel they should be improved.
  • Reply 36 of 145
    mknoppmknopp Posts: 257member
    "The issue has stoked the strongest bipartisan cooperation in American politics seen in recent history, and appears to be generating more interest and scrutiny by elected officials than Net Neutrality, the BP oil spill, employment or the economy at large."



    LOL!



    Of course it does. This is a group of people as a whole that DOES NOT want the public to know where they go or who they are meeting with. Especially, when it could point to any shady or back room deals. Nobody has more to hide then politicians. Well, maybe the mafia, but that is a toss up.
  • Reply 37 of 145
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Apple downloads the data every 12 hours. Google does it several times an hour, and Microsoft stores it directly on their servers.



    I've been following this story rather closely, and there hasn't been any info yet that I've seen which would indicate Apple ever downloads your location data.



    If you're going to throw 100% of the blame on Apple, the onus is on you to reference the data and tell us where you got this tidbit of information from.
  • Reply 38 of 145
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by magicj View Post


    ... keeping a log of data is collecting data. ....



    Balderdash.



    Your leaving out the most important part of the accusation which is *who* is collecting the data.



    The headlines read "Apple collecting data." Your own phone keeping a log of your own location is (technically) you collecting data on yourself. It is not "collecting data" in the sense of Apple collecting data or in any of the senses meant by the author of this piece, the politicos demanding information, or any of the newspaper stories on the subject.



    Keeping a log of data in your phone is not in any way the same thing as "collecting data" as it's used in this story.
  • Reply 39 of 145
    alienzedalienzed Posts: 393member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by neiltc13 View Post


    I'm not bothered about whether my phone stores data about where I go. What I am bothered about is that when Apple is asked what data their phone stores, there is a huge silence and no comment from the company, but when Google is asked the same question they give a prompt and clear reply.



    What does Apple have to hide?



    Apple was asked this almost a year ago and they answered then, look it up. If you were asked the same question over and over again, would you still calmly and cooly send out the same press release, or would that make you look dumb and repetitive?
  • Reply 40 of 145
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by magicj View Post


    Mrstep, keeping a log of data is collecting data.



    And as I said, Congress is not accusing Apple or Google of wrong doing. And neither am I. What they are asking for, and what I'd like to see, is an explanation of exactly what data is being collected, why it's being collected, and who is allowed access to it.



    From there we can say whether or not we agree with the policies or feel they should be improved.



    How many times must this rehashed? The log is kept on your device and in your iTunes folder backup for your device for the very reason one wold expect your phone to know your location on a cellular network. Consolidated.db is not sent to Apple. They are not tracking you.



    The only things sent to Apple are zipcodes that are not tied to a device or a user. This is a separate issue from the consolidated.db and was dealt with almost a year ago in both a change in the privacy policy and a letter to a senator explaining all this.
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