Gee, that press release sounds an awfully lot like what sensible people were saying for several days now. Then again, half of it was explained last Summer. The only new info is about the crowd source DB subset.
It's a no-win for Apple. The Apple-haters, trolls, and other whiners will do anything to stamp an "Apple is Evil" moniker on Apple's image.
I give it one more day max before a few of the conspiracy theorists from a few threads ago (They are easy to spot) backtrack on their accusations and try blowing enough smoke in the hopes that no one will call them out for spouting their mouths off before knowing all the facts.
I gave it a month before this media-frenzy was forgotten. I was wrong. It seems it will happen much sooner than that.
The sad part is that if you're a smartphone-owning individual (regardless of OS affiliation) that enjoys all the functionality and experience of its near-instantaneous abilities, you're already being a hypocrite if you cried foul on this subject. In the subject of map coordinates, if on-demand, at the second determination of your exact location had to be done real-time, you'd blow a gasket as to why it was taking so long to load. There's a reason all these databases exist, yet as usual the whiners here fail to look at the long-term reasons and simply decide to be lazy and point fingers at some Big-Brother conspiracy.
The reality is, any individual connected to the grid, Internet, by alien brain-implants can be tracked in many other ways. The guys in the black suits flying in the unmarked back helicopters don't need to hijack your phone to do it. Unless you decide to forgo technology and live the solitary Ted kaczynski hermit lifestyle and live in the woods, get over it.
This is what I've been saying, and you've been telling me no to. Though, as only eight satellites are line of horizon at any one time, I wonder how the receiver sees more than that number.
The number visible varies. 8 is a targeted minimum in the system design. It does not represent a maximum. 10 is not uncommon, especially airborne or at high points. I've seen 11 on occasion. 12 is theoretically possible. That is one reason why modern receivers are 12 channel or more. I think this discussion is getting lost in the weeds.
It really depends on the unit. Most consumer units will continue to report position with 3, often indicated on the display as a 2-D fix (rather than 3-D). That is also an indication that it is using a constant elevation assumption to determine location.
One should always read the entire paragraph. It indicates what has been discussed in this thread. Note the Earth is spherical, not flat.
If you want to be pedantic you can say on satellite can determine your position, albeit within a very generalized location that is far to great to be useful to the user unless they only need to determine which continent or planet they reside.
Not at all. You're simply misunderstanding what is being said. Or not said actually. The section you reference doesn't say only three satellites are necessary for a 'fix".
Your eTrex, or nuvi, Magellan or TomTom or whatever won't give you a positional fix until it has four satellites locked. That's just the way it works.
Fandroids and general Apple haters are out in force all over the 'net.
They're starting to look like 'birthers.'
Speaking of which, how come Steve Jobs won't produce a birth certificate? I mean, do we even know that he was born? He could've been conjured by a dark mage.
Not at all. You're simply misunderstanding what is being said. Or not said actually. The section you reference doesn't say only three satellites are necessary for a 'fix".
Your eTrex, or nuvi, Magellan or TomTom or whatever won't give you a positional fix until it has four satellites locked. That's just the way it works.
At least some of the Garmin units will give you a 2-D lock from a cold start. I don't know what assumptions may be made in that case - nominal sea level or elevation lookup.
Not at all. You're simply misunderstanding what is being said. Or not said actually. The section you reference doesn't say only three satellites are necessary for a 'fix".
Your eTrex, or nuvi, Magellan or TomTom or whatever won't give you a positional fix until it has four satellites locked. That's just the way it works.
Fine, I've given you three very credible reference documents that contradict your claim, and you have provided a forum with some nice people. I guess I usually have several satellites so I'm good. Thanks for your comments.
Why does this article, which includes an explicit statement from Apple that says, in partial response to question #3 (Why is my iPhone logging my location?):
"The iPhone is not logging your location. Rather, it?s maintaining a database of Wi-Fi hotspots and cell towers around your current location, some of which may be located more than one hundred miles away from your iPhone, to help your iPhone rapidly and accurately calculate its location when requested."
... end with this sentence,
"[...] Though the file created by iOS 4 is not sent to Apple or anyone else, it keeps a detailed list of locations a user has been (italics mine) and is saved unencrypted on the phone, as well as in iTunes backups."
... which appears to have been written by somebody who did not read the Apple response?
In fact, according to the response from Apple, it is not a "detailed list of locations a user has been." Too much of the dialog about this issue has been excessively sloppy about the facts.
Anyway, I've read Apple's statement and it's exactly the information I was looking for. Good work, Apple.
* Turns iPhone back on. *
I?m gonna say you?ve been using it the whole time.
But if you really turned it off I say leave it off and wipe the NAND until they issue a fix. In the mean time you should totally wrap it tinfoil, but in a lead-lined box and bury in the backyard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton
Speaking of which, how come Steve Jobs won't produce a birth certificate? I mean, do we even know that he was born? He could've been conjured by a dark mage.
Maybe he was created by Xerox PARC. The original gooey as he was actually made from goo.
I?m still and will likely always be amazed that we have the technology in our lifetime to get such accurate data.
1903 ? First powered flight
1953 ? First supersonic flight
1957 ? First human-made object orbits Earth
1959 ? First human-made object lands on Moon
1961 ? First manned mission to space
1962 ? First communications satellite to direct relay TV broadcasts
1964 ? First geostationary satellite
1969 ? First manned mission to moon
1978 ? First GPS satellite
1997 ? First time Skynet becomes self aware
2001 ? First time we make contact
(Apologies to JeffDM for all these FIRST posts)
Notice how all of these achievements accelerated after Megatron was found and Hoover Dam was built around him
On serious note, I find it amazing how all of these achievements happened in less than 100 years given that man have been around for tens of thousands of years.
Fine, I've given you three very credible reference documents that contradict your claim, and you have provided a forum with some nice people. I guess I usually have several satellites so I'm good. Thanks for your comments.
You?re on a tech site citing layman definitions to Gatorguy?s (and mine) technical definitions.
You?re on a tech site citing layman definitions to Gatorguy?s (and mine) technical definitions.
I hardly consider two Garmin owners manuals and Wikipedia as layman definitions. They may be wrong and you may be right but surely you can understand why someone might trust their information before some unknown anonymous Internet dudes when there is a contradiction.
Comments
Gee, that press release sounds an awfully lot like what sensible people were saying for several days now. Then again, half of it was explained last Summer. The only new info is about the crowd source DB subset.
It's a no-win for Apple. The Apple-haters, trolls, and other whiners will do anything to stamp an "Apple is Evil" moniker on Apple's image.
I give it one more day max before a few of the conspiracy theorists from a few threads ago (They are easy to spot) backtrack on their accusations and try blowing enough smoke in the hopes that no one will call them out for spouting their mouths off before knowing all the facts.
I gave it a month before this media-frenzy was forgotten. I was wrong. It seems it will happen much sooner than that.
The sad part is that if you're a smartphone-owning individual (regardless of OS affiliation) that enjoys all the functionality and experience of its near-instantaneous abilities, you're already being a hypocrite if you cried foul on this subject. In the subject of map coordinates, if on-demand, at the second determination of your exact location had to be done real-time, you'd blow a gasket as to why it was taking so long to load. There's a reason all these databases exist, yet as usual the whiners here fail to look at the long-term reasons and simply decide to be lazy and point fingers at some Big-Brother conspiracy.
The reality is, any individual connected to the grid, Internet, by alien brain-implants can be tracked in many other ways. The guys in the black suits flying in the unmarked back helicopters don't need to hijack your phone to do it. Unless you decide to forgo technology and live the solitary Ted kaczynski hermit lifestyle and live in the woods, get over it.
Wasn't it Engadget which had switched off their comments for a month, because they were getting so ridiculous?
They grounded their posters? Next time are they going to pull this internet over if they don?t behave?
This is what I've been saying, and you've been telling me no to. Though, as only eight satellites are line of horizon at any one time, I wonder how the receiver sees more than that number.
The number visible varies. 8 is a targeted minimum in the system design. It does not represent a maximum. 10 is not uncommon, especially airborne or at high points. I've seen 11 on occasion. 12 is theoretically possible. That is one reason why modern receivers are 12 channel or more. I think this discussion is getting lost in the weeds.
If the number of discovered satellites drops to fewer than 4 you will lose gps fix. At least four are required to maintain positional estimates.
So you are saying that this Garmin document is incorrect?
http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/eTrex_OwnersManual.pdf
page 41, last paragraph.
Now..now Apple you have spoiled the fun. Can we get back to be freaking out like magicj used to be? Thanks.
magicj isn't the one who had to change what they're doing. Apple is.
So you are saying that this Garmin document is incorrect?
http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/eTrex_OwnersManual.pdf
page 41, last paragraph.
It really depends on the unit. Most consumer units will continue to report position with 3, often indicated on the display as a 2-D fix (rather than 3-D). That is also an indication that it is using a constant elevation assumption to determine location.
So you are saying that this Garmin document is incorrect?
http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/eTrex_OwnersManual.pdf
page 41, last paragraph.
One should always read the entire paragraph. It indicates what has been discussed in this thread. Note the Earth is spherical, not flat.
If you want to be pedantic you can say on satellite can determine your position, albeit within a very generalized location that is far to great to be useful to the user unless they only need to determine which continent or planet they reside.
They're starting to look like 'birthers.'
So you are saying that this Garmin document is incorrect?
http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/eTrex_OwnersManual.pdf
page 41, last paragraph.
Not at all. You're simply misunderstanding what is being said. Or not said actually. The section you reference doesn't say only three satellites are necessary for a 'fix".
Your eTrex, or nuvi, Magellan or TomTom or whatever won't give you a positional fix until it has four satellites locked. That's just the way it works.
How long before some crackpot wants a subpoena of Apple?s crowd sourcing DB to verify it?s not tracking user or device info?
You mean Al Franken?
* Turns iPhone back on. *
Fandroids and general Apple haters are out in force all over the 'net.
They're starting to look like 'birthers.'
Speaking of which, how come Steve Jobs won't produce a birth certificate? I mean, do we even know that he was born? He could've been conjured by a dark mage.
Not at all. You're simply misunderstanding what is being said. Or not said actually. The section you reference doesn't say only three satellites are necessary for a 'fix".
Your eTrex, or nuvi, Magellan or TomTom or whatever won't give you a positional fix until it has four satellites locked. That's just the way it works.
At least some of the Garmin units will give you a 2-D lock from a cold start. I don't know what assumptions may be made in that case - nominal sea level or elevation lookup.
Not at all. You're simply misunderstanding what is being said. Or not said actually. The section you reference doesn't say only three satellites are necessary for a 'fix".
Your eTrex, or nuvi, Magellan or TomTom or whatever won't give you a positional fix until it has four satellites locked. That's just the way it works.
Fine, I've given you three very credible reference documents that contradict your claim, and you have provided a forum with some nice people. I guess I usually have several satellites so I'm good. Thanks for your comments.
"The iPhone is not logging your location. Rather, it?s maintaining a database of Wi-Fi hotspots and cell towers around your current location, some of which may be located more than one hundred miles away from your iPhone, to help your iPhone rapidly and accurately calculate its location when requested."
... end with this sentence,
"[...] Though the file created by iOS 4 is not sent to Apple or anyone else, it keeps a detailed list of locations a user has been (italics mine) and is saved unencrypted on the phone, as well as in iTunes backups."
... which appears to have been written by somebody who did not read the Apple response?
In fact, according to the response from Apple, it is not a "detailed list of locations a user has been." Too much of the dialog about this issue has been excessively sloppy about the facts.
Anyway, I've read Apple's statement and it's exactly the information I was looking for. Good work, Apple.
* Turns iPhone back on. *
I?m gonna say you?ve been using it the whole time.
But if you really turned it off I say leave it off and wipe the NAND until they issue a fix. In the mean time you should totally wrap it tinfoil, but in a lead-lined box and bury in the backyard.
Speaking of which, how come Steve Jobs won't produce a birth certificate? I mean, do we even know that he was born? He could've been conjured by a dark mage.
Maybe he was created by Xerox PARC. The original gooey as he was actually made from goo.
I?m still and will likely always be amazed that we have the technology in our lifetime to get such accurate data.
(Apologies to JeffDM for all these FIRST posts)
Notice how all of these achievements accelerated after Megatron was found and Hoover Dam was built around him
On serious note, I find it amazing how all of these achievements happened in less than 100 years given that man have been around for tens of thousands of years.
Tin foil hat, anyone?
More like lead-lined
Fine, I've given you three very credible reference documents that contradict your claim, and you have provided a forum with some nice people. I guess I usually have several satellites so I'm good. Thanks for your comments.
You?re on a tech site citing layman definitions to Gatorguy?s (and mine) technical definitions.
You?re on a tech site citing layman definitions to Gatorguy?s (and mine) technical definitions.
I hardly consider two Garmin owners manuals and Wikipedia as layman definitions. They may be wrong and you may be right but surely you can understand why someone might trust their information before some unknown anonymous Internet dudes when there is a contradiction.