We can describe it as the "oft criticized PenTile display". I read one article that said that it will compete with lower resolution displays in quality.
The PenTile technology isn't very good for text or graphics, though it's not bad for video. The funny thing is that ultimate sharpness for video is much less important than sharpness for text and graphics.
This is what I was thinking about in my earlier post. So this doesn't apply then?
If you simply give iPad 2 this display it would kill performance and battery life, which is why I was glad to see iPad 2 make full-use of all of its performance advancements when it launched in March 2011.
It's amazing how many people, once the first rumor of a high Rez display on the iPad 2, and then a supposed upgrade this year to one, seem to think it can just be "dropped" in.
I find the articles about this new Samsung display to be amusing as well. We now see that the vaunted Tegra 2, which was going to wipe the floor with the iPad 2, is really a pretty weak SoC, and that includes the highly regarded graphics section. apple's A5 just wiped the floor with it. And tablets that have the T2 don't have the battery life the iPad 2 has either.
So, what would happen if this display got dropped into a tablet running a Tegra 2? Well, it would crawl. I see that the display will be available late this year, in time for new tablets in the first half, maybe first quarter next year. But Nvidia and others will need to do a lot of catching up to the the A5 before they move ahead. And the truth is that even the A5 would be slow with a high rez display, that is, comparing it to the way the current iPad 2 functions.
So those 4 core chips we're reading about would be a requirement for something like this, and a vastly better GPU than what Nvidia and the others are fielding now. In fact, if Apple does go to a high Rez display, their GPU would need to be four times as fast to have the same graphics performance the iPad 2 has today.
It will be interesting to see what will happen. According to engineering reports, the A5 is much bigger than any of the other SoC's out there, and much more expensive. Estimates are that while the Tegra 2 costs an OEM $15, Apple is paying $25 for the A5. Will other manufacturers be willing to pay that much for an SoC? I wonder.
If you simply give iPad 2 this display it would kill performance and battery life, which is why I was glad to see iPad 2 make full-use of all of its performance advancements when it launched in March 2011.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aizmov
At the moment, I don't think it makes much sense in a tablet, current hardware isn't capable of pushing that much pixels and maintain a usable battery life.
What does resolution have to do with lower? The backlight consumes 90% of the energy.
I think only an A5 or A6 processor could drive such a beast. And Apple will be the one who does it best.
Sounds like Samsung could give their tablet a huge marketing win over the iPad with that display which is 16:10, but I question the overall quality of the PenTile design. How is the viewing angel compared to IPS? What does that mean for the GPU? Is the pixel count referring to the main pixels or to the sub pixels like we’ve seen in some AMOLED displays?
Pentile is a name given to a dot matrix design of the individual pixels
IPS is a liquid crystalline arrangement of the liquid crystals themselves.
These two are totally different technologies.
Its light saying how does a LED back light and a color filter array compare and which one is better?
You cant compare an apple and a watermelon.
Quote:
The PenTile technology isn't very good for text or graphics, though it's not bad for video. The funny thing is that ultimate sharpness for video is much less important than sharpness for text and graphics.
Why does it matter? 300ppi is the threshold where the human eye cant distinguish pixel from another pixel. They are both going to look the same.
Samsung also showcased its advanced foldable AMOLED screen that doesnt show creases even after over 100,000 folds.
Pentile displays are certainly not as sharp at the same resolution, but at 4x the resolution they might be significantly sharper--although the colors will still not be as accurate because of there are more green subpixels than blue and red. Also, these panels are not 4:3 they are 16:10 which is the aspect ratio android tablets use. So unless Apple is changing the aspect ratio of the iPad, these are not iPad screens.
Its a matter of opinion, Android 3.0 is not crap. And on the subject of OS I prefer Win7 over OS-X. From what I can see of lion, OS-X is actually getting worst while windows is getting better, not good for Apple.
I dont think Apple is going to be able to keep is dominant position in the Tablet market like it did with the ipod. The impact of being a control freak close down OS on an ipod are low, but on a device that is close of being a computer, the impact of being close down is much greater. The only thing saving Apple is superior hardware with great prices, not superior software.
I'm not sure I agree that that Apple doesn't have superior tablet software. Regardless, you swear that the reason Windows has been dominant for 15+ years is because it was superior software. At this point, nitpicky supposed quality issues with the iPad OS are moot.
its no where near retina because a 300ppi Pen Tile is equivalent to a 200ppi IPS. It's because IPS has an RGB pixel i.e. 3 colours in the pixel, however pen tile only has 2 colours in each pixel (either RG or GB) to save battery, but results in the jaggy blurred text you see on all samsung and htc android phones.
Pentile is a name given to a dot matrix design of the individual pixels
IPS is a liquid crystalline arrangement of the liquid crystals themselves.
These two are totally different technologies.
Its light saying how does a LED back light and a color filter array compare and which one is better?
You cant compare an apple and a watermelon.
Why does it matter? 300ppi is the threshold where the human eye cant distinguish pixel from another pixel. They are both going to look the same.
Samsung also showcased its advanced foldable AMOLED screen that doesnt show creases even after over 100,000 folds.
PenTile displays have an effective resolution much lower than the specs indicate. If you read the links I supplied earlier, you will learn about why those displays appear inferior.
Its a matter of opinion, Android 3.0 is not crap. And on the subject of OS I prefer Win7 over OS-X. From what I can see of lion, OS-X is actually getting worst while windows is getting better, not good for Apple.
I dont think Apple is going to be able to keep is dominant position in the Tablet market like it did with the ipod. The impact of being a control freak close down OS on an ipod are low, but on a device that is close of being a computer, the impact of being close down is much greater. The only thing saving Apple is superior hardware with great prices, not superior software.
Most people would not agree with you. Most people who use Windows don't use it because they think it's superior, but because either they think they need to use it, or are used to using it, or, just want to buy something cheap.
Again with iOS and the iPad. It's not just the hardware. And don't be fooled by what you read about shipment numbers for other tablets. Shipped doesn't mean sold. Apple reports sold as their number, while other companies report shipped. In several financial conferences, when executives from these companies are asked how many tablets were actually sold, they refuse to answer. I'm willing to bet that the iPad is still 90% of the tablet market, using real numbers.
I think it is a little more complicated than just counting the pixels. The sub pixels are based on how the cones and retina actually perceive color and luminance. So in some respects it really is a retina display.
PenTile displays have been criticized as being poor at displaying text and graphics. This is not an issue that's in contention. It's something that can be easily seen. The links I gave earlier show that.
What does resolution have to do with lower? The backlight consumes 90% of the energy.
I think only an A5 or A6 processor could drive such a beast. And Apple will be the one who does it best.
The resolution affects the gpu. The higher the resolution, the more powerful the gpu must be. GPU's require a lot of power. The fastest ons for PC's require almost 400 watts, and get very hot, and so require sophisticated cooling systems.
For tablets, the same situation exists, though on a lower level. But as resolution approaches, and even moves ahead of desktop models, the gpu has to follow. So far, tablet and phone gpu's are vastly less powerful than those for desktops. But then, the sophistication of these mobile devices are much less, graphically.
But we can look at the iPad 2. This model has the most powerful gpu in a mobile device so far. Game designers, and developers of CAD and other powerful apps have applauded the performance. But stick a four times higher Rez panel in there, and performance will plummet.
In fact, there is no mobile gpu right now that can drive a high Rez panel to the level that the iPad 2 is driving it's current panel. We won't see that until late this year, or early next.
The power draw is the only useful part of that display technology. No matter how you look at it, it will appear inferior when compared to a standard RGB display. We know this already.
1) Thanks for pointing out the information we already know¡
2) You CAN compare to display technologies to see which one will be a better fit for your needs.
3) You CAN compare an apple and a watermelon.
If its information you already knew, then you would realize that your question makes no sense. Subpixel arrangement (eg. PenTile) has very little, if any, effect on viewing angles. The panel tech (whether its TN, IPS, VA, MVA, etc) is the one that affects viewing angle.
The fruit analogy was pretty poor, I'll give you that, comparing PenTile to IPS is more like comparing a V8 engine to a 6 speed transmission. they are both completely different things, that can coexist
In theory, you can have a IPS display that uses a PenTile subpixel arrangement, just like you can have a V8 engine mated to a 6 speed transmission.
No, they didn't. They easily noticed the lower quality of those displays. There were even several articles showing why PenTile displays were lower quality.
You can check a couple of links in these articles to read about PenTile displays, and another scientific breakdown of the quality relative to other displays. But no, it's not better, or even as good. It's worse.
FYI that article refers to the nexus 1 display, which is a RGBG PenTile arrangement. this display is using an RGBW arrangement, which does away with the oversized red and blue subpixels, and adds in a white subpixel.
Here's an article that compares the three (RGB stripe, RGBG pentile, RGBW pentile)
I don't know about that, since IIRC, the xbox 360 only renders at 720p (the 1280x720 range). a 2560x1600 display has over 4x the pixels of a 720p display. Even if the xbox 360 renders at full HD (1080p), 2560x1600 is 2x the pixels.
Honestly, I don't see current tablet hardware being able to handle this resolution. Render the desktop and a few transitions yeah, maybe. But video playback (hell, we're JUST approaching the point where 1080p playback is possible, nevermind 1600p), or anything 3d simply isn't going to happen. Even most high end desktop GPUs struggle with the majority of modern games at this resolution.
Maybe it won't be exynos, but what about this?
Quote:
Nvidia introduced the new quad-core mobile processors via a series of tech demos on an unnamed tablet. The device was being benchmarked on a game ported from the Xbox 360 and was rendering a battlefield with 650 units fighting on it in full 3D graphics. This is quite impressive, as at the moment Qualcomm, Samsung and Texas Instruments only announced their intentions on releasing dual-core processors and Nvidia showed us a working, breathing version of their upcoming quad-core processor. The tablet in case running on the new processor was browsing web pages and the CPU load was showing less than 1 percent usage on each of the cores.
Their most impressive feat of strength with the newly announced quad-core mobile processor was the fact that the tablet played a video at 2560 x 1600. It was 1440p video content on a tablet with a 10.1 inch display, which would mean that you get a huge resolution and quality. This is also the worlds very first mobile quad-core processor and as for performance goes, it did manage to beat in a CPU benchmark an Intel Core2DUO T7200 by a margin of over 1000 points in Coremark 1.0. Along the new architecture of the quad-core processor, the chipset will contain a new 12 core GeForce GPU boosting quality and performance in 3D applications by miles according to Nvidia and the tech demo with the 650 units fighting convinced anyone doubting their words.
If its information you already knew, then you would realize that your question makes no sense. Subpixel arrangement (eg. PenTile) has very little, if any, effect on viewing angles. The panel tech (whether its TN, IPS, VA, MVA, etc) is the one that affects viewing angle.
The fruit analogy was pretty poor, I'll give you that, comparing PenTile to IPS is more like comparing a V8 engine to a 6 speed transmission. they are both completely different things, that can coexist
In theory, you can have a IPS display that uses a PenTile subpixel arrangement, just like you can have a V8 engine mated to a 6 speed transmission.
Are you saying that PenTile can be applied to every panel type? I doubt it will be and I doubt it will be used with IPS, hence my query.
Comments
We can describe it as the "oft criticized PenTile display". I read one article that said that it will compete with lower resolution displays in quality.
The PenTile technology isn't very good for text or graphics, though it's not bad for video. The funny thing is that ultimate sharpness for video is much less important than sharpness for text and graphics.
This is what I was thinking about in my earlier post. So this doesn't apply then?
http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/21/s...ligned-pentil/
If you simply give iPad 2 this display it would kill performance and battery life, which is why I was glad to see iPad 2 make full-use of all of its performance advancements when it launched in March 2011.
It's amazing how many people, once the first rumor of a high Rez display on the iPad 2, and then a supposed upgrade this year to one, seem to think it can just be "dropped" in.
I find the articles about this new Samsung display to be amusing as well. We now see that the vaunted Tegra 2, which was going to wipe the floor with the iPad 2, is really a pretty weak SoC, and that includes the highly regarded graphics section. apple's A5 just wiped the floor with it. And tablets that have the T2 don't have the battery life the iPad 2 has either.
So, what would happen if this display got dropped into a tablet running a Tegra 2? Well, it would crawl. I see that the display will be available late this year, in time for new tablets in the first half, maybe first quarter next year. But Nvidia and others will need to do a lot of catching up to the the A5 before they move ahead. And the truth is that even the A5 would be slow with a high rez display, that is, comparing it to the way the current iPad 2 functions.
So those 4 core chips we're reading about would be a requirement for something like this, and a vastly better GPU than what Nvidia and the others are fielding now. In fact, if Apple does go to a high Rez display, their GPU would need to be four times as fast to have the same graphics performance the iPad 2 has today.
It will be interesting to see what will happen. According to engineering reports, the A5 is much bigger than any of the other SoC's out there, and much more expensive. Estimates are that while the Tegra 2 costs an OEM $15, Apple is paying $25 for the A5. Will other manufacturers be willing to pay that much for an SoC? I wonder.
If you simply give iPad 2 this display it would kill performance and battery life, which is why I was glad to see iPad 2 make full-use of all of its performance advancements when it launched in March 2011.
At the moment, I don't think it makes much sense in a tablet, current hardware isn't capable of pushing that much pixels and maintain a usable battery life.
What does resolution have to do with lower? The backlight consumes 90% of the energy.
I think only an A5 or A6 processor could drive such a beast. And Apple will be the one who does it best.
Sounds like Samsung could give their tablet a huge marketing win over the iPad with that display which is 16:10, but I question the overall quality of the PenTile design. How is the viewing angel compared to IPS? What does that mean for the GPU? Is the pixel count referring to the main pixels or to the sub pixels like we’ve seen in some AMOLED displays?
Pentile is a name given to a dot matrix design of the individual pixels
IPS is a liquid crystalline arrangement of the liquid crystals themselves.
These two are totally different technologies.
Its light saying how does a LED back light and a color filter array compare and which one is better?
You cant compare an apple and a watermelon.
The PenTile technology isn't very good for text or graphics, though it's not bad for video. The funny thing is that ultimate sharpness for video is much less important than sharpness for text and graphics.
Why does it matter? 300ppi is the threshold where the human eye cant distinguish pixel from another pixel. They are both going to look the same.
Samsung also showcased its advanced foldable AMOLED screen that doesnt show creases even after over 100,000 folds.
Pentile is a name given to a dot matrix design of the individual pixels
IPS is a liquid crystalline arrangement of the liquid crystals themselves.
These two are totally different technologies.
Its light saying how does a LED back light and a color filter array compare and which one is better?
You cant compare an apple and a watermelon.
1) Thanks for pointing out the information we already know¡
2) You CAN compare to display technologies to see which one will be a better fit for your needs.
3) You CAN compare an apple and a watermelon.
Its a matter of opinion, Android 3.0 is not crap. And on the subject of OS I prefer Win7 over OS-X. From what I can see of lion, OS-X is actually getting worst while windows is getting better, not good for Apple.
I dont think Apple is going to be able to keep is dominant position in the Tablet market like it did with the ipod. The impact of being a control freak close down OS on an ipod are low, but on a device that is close of being a computer, the impact of being close down is much greater. The only thing saving Apple is superior hardware with great prices, not superior software.
I'm not sure I agree that that Apple doesn't have superior tablet software. Regardless, you swear that the reason Windows has been dominant for 15+ years is because it was superior software. At this point, nitpicky supposed quality issues with the iPad OS are moot.
Pentile is a name given to a dot matrix design of the individual pixels
IPS is a liquid crystalline arrangement of the liquid crystals themselves.
These two are totally different technologies.
Its light saying how does a LED back light and a color filter array compare and which one is better?
You cant compare an apple and a watermelon.
Why does it matter? 300ppi is the threshold where the human eye cant distinguish pixel from another pixel. They are both going to look the same.
Samsung also showcased its advanced foldable AMOLED screen that doesnt show creases even after over 100,000 folds.
PenTile displays have an effective resolution much lower than the specs indicate. If you read the links I supplied earlier, you will learn about why those displays appear inferior.
Its a matter of opinion, Android 3.0 is not crap. And on the subject of OS I prefer Win7 over OS-X. From what I can see of lion, OS-X is actually getting worst while windows is getting better, not good for Apple.
I dont think Apple is going to be able to keep is dominant position in the Tablet market like it did with the ipod. The impact of being a control freak close down OS on an ipod are low, but on a device that is close of being a computer, the impact of being close down is much greater. The only thing saving Apple is superior hardware with great prices, not superior software.
Most people would not agree with you. Most people who use Windows don't use it because they think it's superior, but because either they think they need to use it, or are used to using it, or, just want to buy something cheap.
Again with iOS and the iPad. It's not just the hardware. And don't be fooled by what you read about shipment numbers for other tablets. Shipped doesn't mean sold. Apple reports sold as their number, while other companies report shipped. In several financial conferences, when executives from these companies are asked how many tablets were actually sold, they refuse to answer. I'm willing to bet that the iPad is still 90% of the tablet market, using real numbers.
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/...et-display.ars
I think it is a little more complicated than just counting the pixels. The sub pixels are based on how the cones and retina actually perceive color and luminance. So in some respects it really is a retina display.
PenTile displays have been criticized as being poor at displaying text and graphics. This is not an issue that's in contention. It's something that can be easily seen. The links I gave earlier show that.
This is what I was thinking about in my earlier post. So this doesn't apply then?
http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/21/s...ligned-pentil/
Samsung abandoned the PenTile display for its phone displays. As a result, they're better than they were before.
I don't know why they are using it in this 10.1" model. The only reason I can think of is that it's cheaper to manufacture and drive.
What does resolution have to do with lower? The backlight consumes 90% of the energy.
I think only an A5 or A6 processor could drive such a beast. And Apple will be the one who does it best.
The resolution affects the gpu. The higher the resolution, the more powerful the gpu must be. GPU's require a lot of power. The fastest ons for PC's require almost 400 watts, and get very hot, and so require sophisticated cooling systems.
For tablets, the same situation exists, though on a lower level. But as resolution approaches, and even moves ahead of desktop models, the gpu has to follow. So far, tablet and phone gpu's are vastly less powerful than those for desktops. But then, the sophistication of these mobile devices are much less, graphically.
But we can look at the iPad 2. This model has the most powerful gpu in a mobile device so far. Game designers, and developers of CAD and other powerful apps have applauded the performance. But stick a four times higher Rez panel in there, and performance will plummet.
In fact, there is no mobile gpu right now that can drive a high Rez panel to the level that the iPad 2 is driving it's current panel. We won't see that until late this year, or early next.
Ars technica also has a short article on why this display makes sense for a tablet.
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/...et-display.ars
The power draw is the only useful part of that display technology. No matter how you look at it, it will appear inferior when compared to a standard RGB display. We know this already.
1) Thanks for pointing out the information we already know¡
2) You CAN compare to display technologies to see which one will be a better fit for your needs.
3) You CAN compare an apple and a watermelon.
If its information you already knew, then you would realize that your question makes no sense. Subpixel arrangement (eg. PenTile) has very little, if any, effect on viewing angles. The panel tech (whether its TN, IPS, VA, MVA, etc) is the one that affects viewing angle.
The fruit analogy was pretty poor, I'll give you that, comparing PenTile to IPS is more like comparing a V8 engine to a 6 speed transmission. they are both completely different things, that can coexist
In theory, you can have a IPS display that uses a PenTile subpixel arrangement, just like you can have a V8 engine mated to a 6 speed transmission.
No, they didn't. They easily noticed the lower quality of those displays. There were even several articles showing why PenTile displays were lower quality.
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/...and-hacks.ars/
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/...-infuse-4g.ars
You can check a couple of links in these articles to read about PenTile displays, and another scientific breakdown of the quality relative to other displays. But no, it's not better, or even as good. It's worse.
FYI that article refers to the nexus 1 display, which is a RGBG PenTile arrangement. this display is using an RGBW arrangement, which does away with the oversized red and blue subpixels, and adds in a white subpixel.
Here's an article that compares the three (RGB stripe, RGBG pentile, RGBW pentile)
http://expiance.com/blog/2011/05/13/...bile-displays/
I don't know about that, since IIRC, the xbox 360 only renders at 720p (the 1280x720 range). a 2560x1600 display has over 4x the pixels of a 720p display. Even if the xbox 360 renders at full HD (1080p), 2560x1600 is 2x the pixels.
Honestly, I don't see current tablet hardware being able to handle this resolution. Render the desktop and a few transitions yeah, maybe. But video playback (hell, we're JUST approaching the point where 1080p playback is possible, nevermind 1600p), or anything 3d simply isn't going to happen. Even most high end desktop GPUs struggle with the majority of modern games at this resolution.
Maybe it won't be exynos, but what about this?
Nvidia introduced the new quad-core mobile processors via a series of tech demos on an unnamed tablet. The device was being benchmarked on a game ported from the Xbox 360 and was rendering a battlefield with 650 units fighting on it in full 3D graphics. This is quite impressive, as at the moment Qualcomm, Samsung and Texas Instruments only announced their intentions on releasing dual-core processors and Nvidia showed us a working, breathing version of their upcoming quad-core processor. The tablet in case running on the new processor was browsing web pages and the CPU load was showing less than 1 percent usage on each of the cores.
Their most impressive feat of strength with the newly announced quad-core mobile processor was the fact that the tablet played a video at 2560 x 1600. It was 1440p video content on a tablet with a 10.1 inch display, which would mean that you get a huge resolution and quality. This is also the worlds very first mobile quad-core processor and as for performance goes, it did manage to beat in a CPU benchmark an Intel Core2DUO T7200 by a margin of over 1000 points in Coremark 1.0. Along the new architecture of the quad-core processor, the chipset will contain a new 12 core GeForce GPU boosting quality and performance in 3D applications by miles according to Nvidia and the tech demo with the 650 units fighting convinced anyone doubting their words.
http://androidencyclopedia.com/tag/samsung-ct/page/6/
Does 10.1 inch and 2560x1600 sound familiar?
Maybe it won't be exynos, but what about this?
http://androidencyclopedia.com/tag/samsung-ct/page/6/
Does 10.1 inch and 2560x1600 sound familiar?
You're speaking of Kal-El
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4181/n...ts-this-year/1
It shows potential definitely, but I'll reserve judgement until I see the final production silicon.
If its information you already knew, then you would realize that your question makes no sense. Subpixel arrangement (eg. PenTile) has very little, if any, effect on viewing angles. The panel tech (whether its TN, IPS, VA, MVA, etc) is the one that affects viewing angle.
The fruit analogy was pretty poor, I'll give you that, comparing PenTile to IPS is more like comparing a V8 engine to a 6 speed transmission. they are both completely different things, that can coexist
In theory, you can have a IPS display that uses a PenTile subpixel arrangement, just like you can have a V8 engine mated to a 6 speed transmission.
Are you saying that PenTile can be applied to every panel type? I doubt it will be and I doubt it will be used with IPS, hence my query.