Apple pushing new industry standard for even smaller SIM cards

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 42
    christopher126christopher126 Posts: 4,366member
    Thanks Apple! For being on the cutting edge! Everyone else just follows and tries to make their products as cheap as possible!
  • Reply 22 of 42
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jetz View Post


    Sure. So we can all go back to the days when the telcos decided whether or not you could update your phone (since you needed their help transferring contacts). Only this time, it'll be Apple instead of a telco controlling your usage.



    No thanks.



    As has been pointed out, one of the big benefits of a SIM is the ability to change phones on the fly. If Apple controls that function, you'll be limited only to iPhones. Say hello to sky high roaming charges when you travel.



    Apple already controls that function as much as they can, I don't see the new system really being any different.
  • Reply 23 of 42
    jetzjetz Posts: 1,293member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    Apple already controls that function as much as they can, I don't see the new system really being any different.



    It's quite different. Today, you can take your SIM out, slap it in an adaptor and throw it in any GSM phone. Once you have a 'virtual' SIM you can't do that. You can't switch out handsets when you want (like the biking example given above). You can't avoid roaming fees when you travel (by switching SIMs) if you have an unlocked iPhone. And you'll only be restricted to carriers who work with Apple. All that is quite restrictive. Even for the US, where wireless users are used to very locked down devices.
  • Reply 24 of 42
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jetz View Post


    It's quite different. Today, you can take your SIM out, slap it in an adaptor and throw it in any GSM phone. Once you have a 'virtual' SIM you can't do that. You can't switch out handsets when you want (like the biking example given above). You can't avoid roaming fees when you travel (by switching SIMs) if you have an unlocked iPhone. And you'll only be restricted to carriers who work with Apple. All that is quite restrictive. Even for the US, where wireless users are used to very locked down devices.



    I see, so it is tighter, but Apple's are already generally carrier locked anyway, wherever they can do that, so really, it's a bit more of the same.
  • Reply 25 of 42
    easy288easy288 Posts: 80member
    Just when Apple has the competition ramping up for tablets, maybe it heading the other way. Make the iPhone smaller. Use a small base unit maybe with a 2 inch screen with a holographic projector. Use the finger to manipulate icons in the hologram. Touch an icon and hologram disappears. Yes it could happen.
  • Reply 26 of 42
    dluxdlux Posts: 666member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    I see, so it is tighter, but Apple's are already generally carrier locked anyway, wherever they can do that, so really, it's a bit more of the same.



    Outside the US, unlocked iPhones are not uncommon. In those cases, having direct control over your own SIM card (and phone, for that matter) is very desirable.



    It's unfortunate that carriers and customers have such an antagonistic relationship in terms of wireless service, but having physical control over the SIM itself is a little bit of leverage in the customer's favor. (Loose analogy: separating cars from their fuel vendor provides similar flexibility.)
  • Reply 27 of 42
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jetz View Post


    It's quite different. Today, you can take your SIM out, slap it in an adaptor and throw it in any GSM phone. Once you have a 'virtual' SIM you can't do that. You can't switch out handsets when you want (like the biking example given above). You can't avoid roaming fees when you travel (by switching SIMs) if you have an unlocked iPhone. And you'll only be restricted to carriers who work with Apple. All that is quite restrictive. Even for the US, where wireless users are used to very locked down devices.



    I'm still not seeing the issue. As JeffDM stated Apple locks down the device to the cerise where and whenever it can. In the countries that require a phone to be unlocked after a certain point or from the getgo they will still be required to do so.



    Plus, we are seeing Apple push for a new industry standard not create a propreiraty standard only it understands. I'm all for the smaller SIM or even an industry standard access to a built-in, configurable SIM that can be changed by NFC, QR code, or simply inputting the SIM credentials into the iPhone's settings via a broadband bootloader utility.
  • Reply 28 of 42
    jlanddjlandd Posts: 873member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I'm still not seeing the issue. As JeffDM stated Apple locks down the device to the cerise where and whenever it can. In the countries that require a phone to be unlocked after a certain point or from the getgo they will still be required to do so.



    Plus, we are seeing Apple push for a new industry standard not create a propreiraty standard only it understands. I'm all for the smaller SIM or even an industry standard access to a built-in, configurable SIM that can be changed by NFC, QR code, or simply inputting the SIM credentials into the iPhone's settings via a broadband bootloader utility.





    Well, consider me an Apple fanboy but I'm smelling iPhones coming with a choice of a 2 gig card for $20 or a 4 gig one for $35, with no option to buy one without the card so you could get an 8 gig one at NewEgg for $12, and I'm not being facetious.
  • Reply 29 of 42
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jlandd View Post


    Well, consider me an Apple fanboy but I'm smelling iPhones coming with a choice of a 2 gig card for $20 or a 4 gig one for $35, with no option to buy one without the card so you could get an 8 gig one at NewEgg for $12, and I'm not being facetious.



    I?m not following. Why would you need GB of data on a SIM card? If you are referring to an SD card, they aren?t the same thing and they are considerably slower than the on-board NAND Apple uses in their devices.
  • Reply 30 of 42
    jlanddjlandd Posts: 873member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I?m not following. Why would you need GB of data on a SIM card? If you are referring to an SD card, they aren?t the same thing and they are considerably slower than the on-board NAND Apple uses in their devices.







    My bad. Not being a smartphone owner I mistook it for storage.
  • Reply 31 of 42
    jahonenjahonen Posts: 364member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I’m not following. Why would you need GB of data on a SIM card?...



    If you are going to make a new physical form factor for SIMs (instead of changing the actual application running on the SIM or more accurately the UICC), it makes sense to increase the storage size as well since today many people have much more data in their contact than before (more fields and varying content such as photos of the contacts etc.).



    The older SIMs cannot _in practice_ store the new bits of information because the operators haven't gone and reallocated SIMs for their subs.. Bringing a new SIM forces a new SIM on all users. Then you can increase the capacity and bring the SIM back to it's original intent: your subscription + your contacts all intact on the SIM card.



    Also more apps on the SIM itself wouldn't be all that bad. Operator specific Apps for subscription management etc. Not necessarily in the multi GBs, but more that the average today wouldn't hurt.



    Regs, Jarkko
  • Reply 32 of 42
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I'm still not seeing the issue. As JeffDM stated Apple locks down the device to the cerise where and whenever it can. In the countries that require a phone to be unlocked after a certain point or from the getgo they will still be required to do so.



    Plus, we are seeing Apple push for a new industry standard not create a propreiraty standard only it understands. I'm all for the smaller SIM or even an industry standard access to a built-in, configurable SIM that can be changed by NFC, QR code, or simply inputting the SIM credentials into the iPhone's settings via a broadband bootloader utility.





    Push for a standard that prevents the user from using any carrier that they haven't approved? And you're ok with that?



    I travel around Europe every summer, in and out of maybe five or six countries, and I have do pay roaming charges to carriers that Apple approves rather than buy a local SIM in each country? Do you realise the costs involved in that? Where is the possible benefit for the user other than the device being a micron thinner? Are Apple's approved carriers of a higher quality or something?



    Don;t kid yourself, Apple are pushing for one thing and one thing only with this, a bigger slice of the pie. This does not benefit the user in any way, only the carrier and Apple, as it keeps the user locked down to both.
  • Reply 33 of 42
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by neiltc13 View Post


    Micro SIM looks to have failed to gain the attention of other manufacturers and rightly so - it isn't THAT much smaller than a standard SIM.



    Other manufacturers, just don't use it because of the cost of a micro-SIMcardholder.

    The old simcardholders are really cheap, because it is a very old standard
  • Reply 34 of 42
    oodlumoodlum Posts: 40member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Scaramanga89 View Post


    Push for a standard that prevents the user from using any carrier that they haven't approved? And you're ok with that?



    I travel around Europe every summer, in and out of maybe five or six countries, and I have do pay roaming charges to carriers that Apple approves rather than buy a local SIM in each country? Do you realise the costs involved in that? Where is the possible benefit for the user other than the device being a micron thinner? Are Apple's approved carriers of a higher quality or something?



    Don;t kid yourself, Apple are pushing for one thing and one thing only with this, a bigger slice of the pie. This does not benefit the user in any way, only the carrier and Apple, as it keeps the user locked down to both.



    The key term here is "standard" as in, any carrier and manufacturer would be free to adopt it. The article does not say Apple is pushing for a proprietary SIM format. We'd never seen mass adoption of micro sims in Aus before either, but as soon as the iPhone 4 used it you can bet every carrier offered it the same day.



    They can still lock out alternate carriers at the software/baseband level, but that is a completely different argument and irrelevant to this article. No new standard of SIM would, in itself, prevent you switching carriers.
  • Reply 35 of 42
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by oodlum View Post


    The key term here is "standard" as in, any carrier would be free to adopt it. The article does not say Apple is pushing for a proprietary SIM format. We'd never seen mass adoption of micro sims in Aus before either, but as soon as the iPhone 4 used it you can bet every carrier offered it the same day.



    They can still lock out alternate carriers at the software/baseband level, but that is a completely different argument and irrelevant to this article. No new standard of SIM would, in itself, prevent you switching carriers.







    It would prevent me switching carriers as although it might be adopted (relatively quickly) in the UK, it may not be in Poland, Germany, Latvia, Greece, or anywhere else I travel.



    Australia is the same model as the US, you have a few carriers that cover the entire country. Europe is a different usage model.
  • Reply 36 of 42
    jetzjetz Posts: 1,293member
    Solipsism,



    I'm not suggesting that Apple is pushing forward a proprietary standard. I'm suggesting that if the standard is not common with other OEMs, it certainly has that effect.



    In any event, I was responding to the suggestion of an internal SIM. A really tiny SIM card is something I have no problem with. You can always use an adaptor.
  • Reply 37 of 42
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jetz View Post


    Solipsism,



    I'm not suggesting that Apple is pushing forward a proprietary standard. I'm suggesting that if the standard is not common with other OEMs, it certainly has that effect.



    In any event, I was responding to the suggestion of an internal SIM. A really tiny SIM card is something I have no problem with. You can always use an adaptor.



    With the ease at which a SIM can be cloned, the simpliaty of the chip, the minuscule amount of data it holds, and the size of the cards compare to useful chips in modern phones I have no problem with future SIMs being built in.



    Imagine traveling to another country, buying a little card that has not a plastic card you have to break out of a larger plastic card, find a paperclip or remove your battery to input a new SIM, but instead access the broadband settings of your device either from a BIOS-like pre-boot screen or directly from the OSes settings. You scratch off the film on the card you bought and input the unique ID. Now, because it's held internally you can jump from country to country and carrier to carrier without having to carry a pocket full of SIMs. Just switch SIM ID and reboot your phone.
  • Reply 38 of 42
    dluxdlux Posts: 666member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Imagine traveling to another country, buying a little card that has not a plastic card you have to break out of a larger plastic card, find a paperclip or remove your battery to input a new SIM, but instead access the broadband settings of your device either from a BIOS-like pre-boot screen or directly from the OSes settings. You scratch off the film on the card you bought and input the unique ID. Now, because it's held internally you can jump from country to country and carrier to carrier without having to carry a pocket full of SIMs. Just switch SIM ID and reboot your phone.



    Well, this brings up a better model for buying phone service, although the carriers would never go for it. One could buy minutes (and/or buckets of data) online and store them in an 'account' linked to your phone's ID. Without relying on a physical SIM, you could actually have minutes from multiple carriers stored up and you choose which one to draw upon while traveling. There would be a utility on the phone to manage it all.



    I'm pretty sure this is what Apple was going for when the rumors circulated about them trying to get rid of SIMs altogether. But again, the carriers hate the idea because it pushes them into Dumb Pipe territory. (It also assumes that you own your own unlocked phone, paid for without carrier subsidies.)
  • Reply 39 of 42
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dlux View Post


    Well, this brings up a better model for buying phone service, although the carriers would never go for it. One could buy minutes (and/or buckets of data) online and store them in an 'account' linked to your phone's ID. Without relying on a physical SIM, you could actually have minutes from multiple carriers stored up and you choose which one to draw upon while traveling. There would be a utility on the phone to manage it all.



    I'm pretty sure this is what Apple was going for when the rumors circulated about them trying to get rid of SIMs altogether. But again, the carriers hate the idea because it pushes them into Dump Pipe territory. (It also assumes that you own your own unlocked phone, paid for without carrier subsidies.)



    Sure, it?s in their best interests to fight it but I think that ultimately the handsets will rise up over the telcos. The problem with buying this data from Apple is that you need to have some sort of internet connection to do it. If you run out before you can get to the online store this could be an issue if you?re no where near free WiFi. This is why I think a physical purchase, just with current disposable SIM cards, would still be used, just without the SIM card.



    Also, I don?t think it assumes the device isn?t subsidized or without a contract, just that it?s ?unlocked?. For example, I could still be locked to AT&T with a 2 year contract but if my phone was unlocked I could then use these stored SIMs and minutes/data as I travel despite still be responsible for my contractual obligations to AT&T back home.



    I think something like this is inevitable, not just a a reduction of the plastic around the standard SIM card.
  • Reply 40 of 42
    evilutionevilution Posts: 1,398member
    Sim cards can be cut down to the size of the contacts and still work which would be 50% smaller than the micro sims. Surely that's small enough.
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