Yeah. I mean, a new Google comes along every ten minutes. As soon as I'm done writing this post I'm gonna start my own Google... shoot, I might as well start two Googles, I mean, this is America!
...I just need to read a patent or two and see if anything hasn't been "invented" yet.
Don't misinterpret "opportunity" with "entitlement." Anyone has the opportunity to create the next Google, or Facebook, or Twitter, and every few years someone does. Three kids out of college decided to offer a free, p2p communications system out of their parent's basement, and 6 years later have it sold for over $8 billion to one of the largest corporations in the world! That doesn't mean everyone can or is willing to, and that certainly doesn't mean everyone *deserves* that honor.
You're paid what you're worth. Period. That's a simple fact. If you can get paid more working for someone else (or yourself), then go for it. If you can't find someone to pay you more than you're currently making, then I'm sorry to say you are not worth anything more than what you're earning. Go to school, get training, get education, make contacts, Take up internships... do whatever it takes to make yourself more valuable to someone else, so that they'll pay you more.
The simple truth about the auto industry is that, starting in the late 60s and early 70s .... the industry was lazy and complacent. The "Big 3" thought they could do no wrong ... and for almost two decades .... refused to accept the fact that the American consumer wanted safe, reliable and low maintenance ( read: better fuel milage) cars, as was shown by the shrinking market share of the Big 3.
Even when it became so obvious they couldn't ignore the problem anymore ... their answer was to create a climate of 0% financing ....and cash back .... and a slew of misguided sales gimmicks instead of focusing on the real problem ..... the fact that they were selling, or trying to ..... overpriced junk. In other words ... keep making junk, but try to 'bribe/dupe' the consumer into 'going along with this "plan'.
Not one of these business models was introduced by the unions .... but guess whose jobs were the first to go? .... not management .... they kept their jobs, for the most part, and even when some might have been replaced .... they got the "golden handshake" while the workers got the 'not so golden finger'.
Blaming unions for the fate of the Big 3 is ignorant. But it is equally ignorant to look past the legacy costs of old union contracts and the support of the retirees that are no longer producing. Union legacy costs played a role and exacerbated the companies' poor business decisions. Not the unions fault... but they were aprt of the equation.
Don't misinterpret "opportunity" with "entitlement." Anyone has the opportunity to create the next Google, or Facebook, or Twitter, and every few years someone does. Three kids out of college decided to offer a free, p2p communications system out of their parent's basement, and 6 years later have it sold for over $8 billion to one of the largest corporations in the world! That doesn't mean everyone can or is willing to, and that certainly doesn't mean everyone *deserves* that honor.
You're paid what you're worth. Period. That's a simple fact. If you can get paid more working for someone else (or yourself), then go for it. If you can't find someone to pay you more than you're currently making, then I'm sorry to say you are not worth anything more than what you're earning. Go to school, get training, get education, make contacts, Take up internships... do whatever it takes to make yourself more valuable to someone else, so that they'll pay you more.
No, really, it's a brilliant idea. If every few years three or four people make a fortune then it means the rest of us are just too lazy, I guess. I bet those three are always from low income households and are probably mostly women and minorities, because free markets are about equality.
The one thing it definitely means is that those three or four people should be able to dictate all the rules of employment without any oversight or input from the employee. I mean, what other system makes sense? Certainly not unions!
I remember Stevo saying, Apple has spent a lot of money recruiting and training it's personnel and unlike other corporations that lay people off during a recession, Apple redoubles their efforts and moves people into R&D. So when the recession is over Apple doesn't have to waste time and money to hire and retrain people. Apple is positioned to take full advantage of the uptick after a recession.
In a way, Germany does this too. I think it is criminal that American corporations can dispose of people and lay them off on the Gov./Society's doorstep willy-nilly and move the jobs overseas. I understand the rational, ie., gov. regs, taxes, unrealistic union demands but, never-the-less, it has severely damaged this country.
We want to buy cheap Chinese crap from Walmart and the irony is a lot of people end up working at Walmart for subsistence wages. It's like eating your own leg for dinner!
PS. Just to elaborate on Germany...if the BMW plant experiences a downturn in demand, BMW has to put people on 3/4 time, then 1/2 time before they lay people off and dump them on the Gov/Taxpayers/Society. Germany was the first country to come out of the Global recession and within 6 months had a higher employment rate than before the recession. Rather like Apple when you think about it. I can't think of any corporation that actually makes things that has done as well as Apple. The blood-sucking Banks and Goldman-Sux are bigger than before the recession but like I said, blood-suckers. Who would work for Goldman?
aGREED 100% FIRE THOSE BASTARDS and take away the FREE IPHONES and IPADS they got when these things came out and EVERY APPLE WORKER got one for FREE...
WTF???? I would LOVE TO WORK AT THE APPLE STORE ... friggin MORONS!!
I bet my yearly salary (although it wouldn't be much since i'm not working) that these are Micro$H!t ex-employees and self HATING ex-MS windoze users who lost their jobs and now are at the APPLE store .. go work at walmart
Allow me to clarify that as a former apple employee, the only time Apple has giving away something for free to its employees was the day the original iphone was released.
For the looks of your writing you sound like an angry person, maybe that's why apple never bothered to read your resume and offered you a job since your words lack sense.
Blaming unions for the fate of the Big 3 is ignorant. But it is equally ignorant to look past the legacy costs of old union contracts and the support of the retirees that are no longer producing. Union legacy costs played a role and exacerbated the companies' poor business decisions. Not the unions fault... but they were aprt of the equation.
As was 'weak management' .... my point exactly. It takes two sides to sign a contract.
Just image all the people who be could be put to work if we outlawed Unions. Why we could be like China where Apple pays laborers $5.00 to work 36 hour shifts with no health care to built your iPhones and iPads.
I bet there are many out of work Americans willing to just jump at the chance to make a weekly salary like that and live in a slum.
I remember Stevo saying, Apple has spent a lot of money recruiting and training it's personnel and unlike other corporations that lay people off during a recession, Apple redoubles their efforts and moves people into R&D. So when the recession is over Apple doesn't have to waste time and money to hire and retrain people. Apple is positioned to take full advantage of the uptick after a recession.
In a way, Germany does this too. I think it is criminal that corporations can dispose of people and lay them on the Gov.'s doorstep willy-nilly and move the jobs overseas. I understand the rational, ie., gov. regs, taxes, unrealistic union demands but, never-the-less, it has severely damaged this country.
We want to buy cheap Chinese crap from Walmart and the irony is a lot of people end up working there for subsistence wages. It's like having your own leg for dinner!
[civility]
Unions have been declining in the last 30 years, in step with or outpacing the rate of jobs leaving the United States.
And keep in mind, friend, the Pyramids were not built with kindness. Maintaining human dignity comes at the expense of efficiency, but that is, allegedly, something that we value here. Actually, it IS something we value here, at least for a while yet. When was the last time a story broke about vast numbers of Americans killing themselves because of harsh working conditions? I'm not eager to see a trend of it, and I would like to see the trend subside elsewhere.
I'm not saying unions make us more viable economically, but I would rather be in a declining country with standards than a rising one without. I don't believe that we are required to pick between those two extremes, however. There is more complexity to the subject than you seem to assume.
, unions can sometimes be corrupt or overreach. Just like government. Just like corporations. But no one talks about abolishing them. No, the only institution people want to abolish is the one that dare represent people who otherwise lack in money and power. How completely upside-down is that?
The problem isn't unions inherently but the NLRB putting the full weight of the federal government behind unions.
The simple fact of the matter is that employees should be able to form unions but that doesn't mean that an employer should be forced to recognize the union.
As an employer, I should be able to fire or hire anyone I want or conduct business operations however I want where I want but this is not possible with the NLRB.
If employees unionize, I should be able to tell them to take a hike. That is a risk as I would have to replace all of the workers so removing them might not be worth whatever demands the workers are making. Sadly, because of the NLRB I am forced to either shutdown the entire operation and move or recognize the union.
Unions have been declining in the last 30 years, in step with or outpacing the rate of jobs leaving the United States.
And keep in mind, friend, the Pyramids were not built with kindness. Maintaining human dignity comes at the expense of efficiency, but that is, allegedly, something that we value here. Actually, it IS something we value here, at least for a while yet. When was the last time a story broke about vast numbers of Americans killing themselves because of harsh working conditions? I'm not eager to see a trend of it, and I would like to see the trend subside elsewhere.
I'm not saying unions make us more viable economically, but I would rather be in a declining country with standards than a rising one without. I don't believe that we are required to pick between those two extremes, however. There is more complexity to the subject than you seem to assume.
[/civility]
There is more complexity than I can explain in two paragraphs...Agreed!
My knowledge of history is vast. Unions may have had a place and a use in the past, but that time is long gone. Unions do more bad than good now, and there is no need for them. Unions are bad for business, bad for the economy and I will go as far as to say that the philosophy of Unions is anti-American. I can see Unions appealing to socialists, underachievers, slackers and other degenerates in society who are looking for a free ride and looking to game the system at the expense of others.
Unions are imperfect, but I would argue that with ever-declining wages and ever-increasing reports of unfair management behavior, unions are needed more in certain industries, not less. Especially as many non-unionized companies are trying to get away with paying little more than minimum wage. And they're also needed in cases where safety is a huge issue, like coal mines.
The negative aspects of unions are when they try to institute absurd work rules, restrict management's ability to use employees as they see fit, force "no-show" workers or abscond with pension funds.
Being part of a union is a trade-off: you're trading away your own ability to demonstrate your unique importance to a company and get salary increases based on your own skills and relationship with management in return for a fixed, guaranteed contract of raises and benefits. This benefits people who either don't do a very good job or those who do, but feel like they will be either arbitrarily treated by management or discriminated against. Where there are lots of people in a company who do exactly the same job and don't have the chance to prove their own individual worth, a union probably makes sense for them because their salary increases or promotions will be based solely on an objective factor: usually either a score on an exam (in the case of public workers) or seniority in the job.
In general, it's not union salaries that have busted the economy. It was absurd pension plans, but that's not the fault of the unions - it's the fault of the politicians who signed on to those contracts.
There is a perception in this country that union workers make absurd wages, but for the most part, that's not true and most union contracts provide for cruddy salary increases: usually no more than 3% per year.
I don't buy into the notion that if you don't like a place, don't work there. What if every large corporation decided to only pay minimum wage? In an economy with 10% unemployment, they could certainly do so. And although in the one case in my career where there was a chance employees were going to try and organize a union, I would have voted "no", I think workers have the right to organize. But they should be careful what they wish for, because the salary increases the union might negotiate for them might be less than Apple might be willing to pay otherwise, in spite of any poor behavior by individual managers. I've worked for companies where non-union employees actually got better wages/benefits than union employees as a strategy to keep the union out. It wasn't the compensation that bothered the company - it was the work rules and interference with management.
And as for this fear of "socialism", the post office, the roads, the public libraries, public hospitals, public schools, etc. are all "socialist". And the vast majority of people in this country, even those who claim to hate anything socialist, do not want to abandon Social Security.
And as for other posters' comments that Apple should fire anyone trying to organize: that's clearly illegal.
My knowledge of history is vast. Unions may have had a place and a use in the past, but that time is long gone. Unions do more bad than good now, and there is no need for them. Unions are bad for business, bad for the economy and I will go as far as to say that the philosophy of Unions is anti-American. I can see Unions appealing to socialists, underachievers, slackers and other degenerates in society who are looking for a free ride and looking to game the system at the expense of others.
Really? Your "knowledge of history is vast"? You seriously want to start a post that way? Was there ever a clearer sign to the readers that this post should be ignored?
aGREED 100% FIRE THOSE BASTARDS and take away the FREE IPHONES and IPADS they got when these things came out and EVERY APPLE WORKER got one for FREE...
WTF???? I would LOVE TO WORK AT THE APPLE STORE ... friggin MORONS!!
I bet my yearly salary (although it wouldn't be much since i'm not working) that these are Micro$H!t ex-employees and self HATING ex-MS windoze users who lost their jobs and now are at the APPLE store .. go work at walmart
It's incredible how ignorant some of these anti-collective bargaining posts are. While some unions have abused their power, those incidents do not even begin to compare to the abuses carried out by management every day. Thank God for the efforts of unions, OSHA, the standard 40 hour work week, equal pay for equal work, and all the many other benefits these morons take for granted. Even so, with the decline in unions, on average, American workers have fewer training opportunities, and earn less for their work now than they have at any time in the last 30 years.
I've considered taking a part-time job at an Apple store just for fun, but I know people who work there (real Mac experts who are relegated to the lowest positions even as they are expected to do work that should get them higher levels of pay.) The stories I have heard have turned me off. They have a real bunch of jerks running the Apple stores and the pay is pathetic (you'd do much better at just about any other major high end retailer in the malls [the managers do OK though.]) I assume this is why the quality of workers in the Apple stores seems to have declined so severely over the last few years (my opinion.) Seems like a lot of Apple "Associates" are pretty stupid these days.
Fortunately, retail sales is not the only choice I have on how to earn a living.
[Oh yeah, and I do own a few hundred shares of AAPL.]
The Australian labour market has been regulated more or less since federation and we have all the same shit you Americans have. For some reason we have near full employment and most retail people, whilst they may struggle, earn significantly more than their stateside counterparts.
Then unions here have been a key part of the labour bargain for more than a century now but their influence is diminishing. Maybe we are heading down the same path. Unfortunate, really.
If you don't like or you aren't agree of the working conditions, conducts, policies, etc of any establishment you may be working at, you have all the right to immediately leave the place unless there is/are justified reasons you want to start a complaint on your favor.
I worked at the apple store in Charlotte, NC when it opened for the first time, and they treated me well and fair, my pay was according to my level of knowledge of their products and also because i was good running their point of sale computers, the managers were always there and always told me if there is anything that needs to be addressed to please speak up in our meetings so everybody can have and give their inputs.
Some people there complained about not receiving any kind of commission or bonuses for the quantity of products they sell, well some retail stores do and some others don't, if you are not agree the way they do business you are free to leave and find something that best fits for you nobody is making you stay and work against your will, if you should leave... just leave.
Thanks for reading, and i am a new member here and this topic really caught my interest.
Pervert, pedophile teacher molests sixth grade student. 13 years later, the teacher can't be fired and continues to receive full salary.
Pierre was permanently removed from the classroom in 1997 after he was accused of sexually molesting a sixth-grade girl at PS 138 in Brooklyn.
But since then, Pierre has continued to receive full pay and fringe benefits, including health, pension and vacation, officials said. He pulls down $97,101 a year.
I know all about this article and other articles like it. The movie, "Waiting for Superman" hits the nail on the head. It makes me sick that people can hang on to their job after that sort gross misconduct.
I am very anti-union in it's current form. In my previous statement, I was actually referring to people that deserved to keep their job, not leeches.
I am not a big fan of unions. In my 15 year career I have had 2 years when my pay was negotiated by a union and 13 years when I just negotiated myself.
The 2 years done by the union were worse than 12 of the 13 I did myself. The 13th one was a recession year when no one got raises.
If you don't like where you work - QUIT! No one is forcing you to be there! This is the current problem in the US. People feel entitled to more for nothing.
There was a place for unions in the past, but that time has come and gone.
2 years ago I would have agreed, but at the moment I am in a bad place, not looking to unionize or anything, but ya know, the reason I can not quit without a new job lined up is a simple one - RENT, if I don't pay it or the check doesnt clear, im screwed. Sure I have savings but shoot, what if I don't find a job in 4-6 months?
Comments
Yeah. I mean, a new Google comes along every ten minutes. As soon as I'm done writing this post I'm gonna start my own Google... shoot, I might as well start two Googles, I mean, this is America!
...I just need to read a patent or two and see if anything hasn't been "invented" yet.
Don't misinterpret "opportunity" with "entitlement." Anyone has the opportunity to create the next Google, or Facebook, or Twitter, and every few years someone does. Three kids out of college decided to offer a free, p2p communications system out of their parent's basement, and 6 years later have it sold for over $8 billion to one of the largest corporations in the world! That doesn't mean everyone can or is willing to, and that certainly doesn't mean everyone *deserves* that honor.
You're paid what you're worth. Period. That's a simple fact. If you can get paid more working for someone else (or yourself), then go for it. If you can't find someone to pay you more than you're currently making, then I'm sorry to say you are not worth anything more than what you're earning. Go to school, get training, get education, make contacts, Take up internships... do whatever it takes to make yourself more valuable to someone else, so that they'll pay you more.
The simple truth about the auto industry is that, starting in the late 60s and early 70s .... the industry was lazy and complacent. The "Big 3" thought they could do no wrong ... and for almost two decades .... refused to accept the fact that the American consumer wanted safe, reliable and low maintenance ( read: better fuel milage) cars, as was shown by the shrinking market share of the Big 3.
Even when it became so obvious they couldn't ignore the problem anymore ... their answer was to create a climate of 0% financing ....and cash back .... and a slew of misguided sales gimmicks instead of focusing on the real problem ..... the fact that they were selling, or trying to ..... overpriced junk. In other words ... keep making junk, but try to 'bribe/dupe' the consumer into 'going along with this "plan'.
Not one of these business models was introduced by the unions .... but guess whose jobs were the first to go? .... not management .... they kept their jobs, for the most part, and even when some might have been replaced .... they got the "golden handshake" while the workers got the 'not so golden finger'.
Blaming unions for the fate of the Big 3 is ignorant. But it is equally ignorant to look past the legacy costs of old union contracts and the support of the retirees that are no longer producing. Union legacy costs played a role and exacerbated the companies' poor business decisions. Not the unions fault... but they were aprt of the equation.
Don't misinterpret "opportunity" with "entitlement." Anyone has the opportunity to create the next Google, or Facebook, or Twitter, and every few years someone does. Three kids out of college decided to offer a free, p2p communications system out of their parent's basement, and 6 years later have it sold for over $8 billion to one of the largest corporations in the world! That doesn't mean everyone can or is willing to, and that certainly doesn't mean everyone *deserves* that honor.
You're paid what you're worth. Period. That's a simple fact. If you can get paid more working for someone else (or yourself), then go for it. If you can't find someone to pay you more than you're currently making, then I'm sorry to say you are not worth anything more than what you're earning. Go to school, get training, get education, make contacts, Take up internships... do whatever it takes to make yourself more valuable to someone else, so that they'll pay you more.
No, really, it's a brilliant idea. If every few years three or four people make a fortune then it means the rest of us are just too lazy, I guess. I bet those three are always from low income households and are probably mostly women and minorities, because free markets are about equality.
The one thing it definitely means is that those three or four people should be able to dictate all the rules of employment without any oversight or input from the employee. I mean, what other system makes sense? Certainly not unions!
[/sarcasm]
K. that's it. done.
In a way, Germany does this too. I think it is criminal that American corporations can dispose of people and lay them off on the Gov./Society's doorstep willy-nilly and move the jobs overseas. I understand the rational, ie., gov. regs, taxes, unrealistic union demands but, never-the-less, it has severely damaged this country.
We want to buy cheap Chinese crap from Walmart and the irony is a lot of people end up working at Walmart for subsistence wages. It's like eating your own leg for dinner!
PS. Just to elaborate on Germany...if the BMW plant experiences a downturn in demand, BMW has to put people on 3/4 time, then 1/2 time before they lay people off and dump them on the Gov/Taxpayers/Society. Germany was the first country to come out of the Global recession and within 6 months had a higher employment rate than before the recession. Rather like Apple when you think about it. I can't think of any corporation that actually makes things that has done as well as Apple. The blood-sucking Banks and Goldman-Sux are bigger than before the recession but like I said, blood-suckers. Who would work for Goldman?
aGREED 100% FIRE THOSE BASTARDS and take away the FREE IPHONES and IPADS they got when these things came out and EVERY APPLE WORKER got one for FREE...
WTF???? I would LOVE TO WORK AT THE APPLE STORE ... friggin MORONS!!
I bet my yearly salary (although it wouldn't be much since i'm not working) that these are Micro$H!t ex-employees and self HATING ex-MS windoze users who lost their jobs and now are at the APPLE store .. go work at walmart
Allow me to clarify that as a former apple employee, the only time Apple has giving away something for free to its employees was the day the original iphone was released.
For the looks of your writing you sound like an angry person, maybe that's why apple never bothered to read your resume and offered you a job since your words lack sense.
Good luck finding a job Mr Angry Dwarf.
Blaming unions for the fate of the Big 3 is ignorant. But it is equally ignorant to look past the legacy costs of old union contracts and the support of the retirees that are no longer producing. Union legacy costs played a role and exacerbated the companies' poor business decisions. Not the unions fault... but they were aprt of the equation.
As was 'weak management' .... my point exactly. It takes two sides to sign a contract.
I bet there are many out of work Americans willing to just jump at the chance to make a weekly salary like that and live in a slum.
I remember Stevo saying, Apple has spent a lot of money recruiting and training it's personnel and unlike other corporations that lay people off during a recession, Apple redoubles their efforts and moves people into R&D. So when the recession is over Apple doesn't have to waste time and money to hire and retrain people. Apple is positioned to take full advantage of the uptick after a recession.
In a way, Germany does this too. I think it is criminal that corporations can dispose of people and lay them on the Gov.'s doorstep willy-nilly and move the jobs overseas. I understand the rational, ie., gov. regs, taxes, unrealistic union demands but, never-the-less, it has severely damaged this country.
We want to buy cheap Chinese crap from Walmart and the irony is a lot of people end up working there for subsistence wages. It's like having your own leg for dinner!
[civility]
Unions have been declining in the last 30 years, in step with or outpacing the rate of jobs leaving the United States.
And keep in mind, friend, the Pyramids were not built with kindness. Maintaining human dignity comes at the expense of efficiency, but that is, allegedly, something that we value here. Actually, it IS something we value here, at least for a while yet. When was the last time a story broke about vast numbers of Americans killing themselves because of harsh working conditions? I'm not eager to see a trend of it, and I would like to see the trend subside elsewhere.
I'm not saying unions make us more viable economically, but I would rather be in a declining country with standards than a rising one without. I don't believe that we are required to pick between those two extremes, however. There is more complexity to the subject than you seem to assume.
[/civility]
, unions can sometimes be corrupt or overreach. Just like government. Just like corporations. But no one talks about abolishing them. No, the only institution people want to abolish is the one that dare represent people who otherwise lack in money and power. How completely upside-down is that?
The problem isn't unions inherently but the NLRB putting the full weight of the federal government behind unions.
The simple fact of the matter is that employees should be able to form unions but that doesn't mean that an employer should be forced to recognize the union.
As an employer, I should be able to fire or hire anyone I want or conduct business operations however I want where I want but this is not possible with the NLRB.
If employees unionize, I should be able to tell them to take a hike. That is a risk as I would have to replace all of the workers so removing them might not be worth whatever demands the workers are making. Sadly, because of the NLRB I am forced to either shutdown the entire operation and move or recognize the union.
That is what is completely upside-down.
[civility]
Unions have been declining in the last 30 years, in step with or outpacing the rate of jobs leaving the United States.
And keep in mind, friend, the Pyramids were not built with kindness. Maintaining human dignity comes at the expense of efficiency, but that is, allegedly, something that we value here. Actually, it IS something we value here, at least for a while yet. When was the last time a story broke about vast numbers of Americans killing themselves because of harsh working conditions? I'm not eager to see a trend of it, and I would like to see the trend subside elsewhere.
I'm not saying unions make us more viable economically, but I would rather be in a declining country with standards than a rising one without. I don't believe that we are required to pick between those two extremes, however. There is more complexity to the subject than you seem to assume.
[/civility]
There is more complexity than I can explain in two paragraphs...Agreed!
There is more complexity than I can explain in two paragraphs...Agreed!
Fair enough.
My knowledge of history is vast. Unions may have had a place and a use in the past, but that time is long gone. Unions do more bad than good now, and there is no need for them. Unions are bad for business, bad for the economy and I will go as far as to say that the philosophy of Unions is anti-American. I can see Unions appealing to socialists, underachievers, slackers and other degenerates in society who are looking for a free ride and looking to game the system at the expense of others.
Unions are imperfect, but I would argue that with ever-declining wages and ever-increasing reports of unfair management behavior, unions are needed more in certain industries, not less. Especially as many non-unionized companies are trying to get away with paying little more than minimum wage. And they're also needed in cases where safety is a huge issue, like coal mines.
The negative aspects of unions are when they try to institute absurd work rules, restrict management's ability to use employees as they see fit, force "no-show" workers or abscond with pension funds.
Being part of a union is a trade-off: you're trading away your own ability to demonstrate your unique importance to a company and get salary increases based on your own skills and relationship with management in return for a fixed, guaranteed contract of raises and benefits. This benefits people who either don't do a very good job or those who do, but feel like they will be either arbitrarily treated by management or discriminated against. Where there are lots of people in a company who do exactly the same job and don't have the chance to prove their own individual worth, a union probably makes sense for them because their salary increases or promotions will be based solely on an objective factor: usually either a score on an exam (in the case of public workers) or seniority in the job.
In general, it's not union salaries that have busted the economy. It was absurd pension plans, but that's not the fault of the unions - it's the fault of the politicians who signed on to those contracts.
There is a perception in this country that union workers make absurd wages, but for the most part, that's not true and most union contracts provide for cruddy salary increases: usually no more than 3% per year.
I don't buy into the notion that if you don't like a place, don't work there. What if every large corporation decided to only pay minimum wage? In an economy with 10% unemployment, they could certainly do so. And although in the one case in my career where there was a chance employees were going to try and organize a union, I would have voted "no", I think workers have the right to organize. But they should be careful what they wish for, because the salary increases the union might negotiate for them might be less than Apple might be willing to pay otherwise, in spite of any poor behavior by individual managers. I've worked for companies where non-union employees actually got better wages/benefits than union employees as a strategy to keep the union out. It wasn't the compensation that bothered the company - it was the work rules and interference with management.
And as for this fear of "socialism", the post office, the roads, the public libraries, public hospitals, public schools, etc. are all "socialist". And the vast majority of people in this country, even those who claim to hate anything socialist, do not want to abandon Social Security.
And as for other posters' comments that Apple should fire anyone trying to organize: that's clearly illegal.
My knowledge of history is vast. Unions may have had a place and a use in the past, but that time is long gone. Unions do more bad than good now, and there is no need for them. Unions are bad for business, bad for the economy and I will go as far as to say that the philosophy of Unions is anti-American. I can see Unions appealing to socialists, underachievers, slackers and other degenerates in society who are looking for a free ride and looking to game the system at the expense of others.
Really? Your "knowledge of history is vast"? You seriously want to start a post that way? Was there ever a clearer sign to the readers that this post should be ignored?
aGREED 100% FIRE THOSE BASTARDS and take away the FREE IPHONES and IPADS they got when these things came out and EVERY APPLE WORKER got one for FREE...
WTF???? I would LOVE TO WORK AT THE APPLE STORE ... friggin MORONS!!
I bet my yearly salary (although it wouldn't be much since i'm not working) that these are Micro$H!t ex-employees and self HATING ex-MS windoze users who lost their jobs and now are at the APPLE store .. go work at walmart
It's incredible how ignorant some of these anti-collective bargaining posts are. While some unions have abused their power, those incidents do not even begin to compare to the abuses carried out by management every day. Thank God for the efforts of unions, OSHA, the standard 40 hour work week, equal pay for equal work, and all the many other benefits these morons take for granted. Even so, with the decline in unions, on average, American workers have fewer training opportunities, and earn less for their work now than they have at any time in the last 30 years.
I've considered taking a part-time job at an Apple store just for fun, but I know people who work there (real Mac experts who are relegated to the lowest positions even as they are expected to do work that should get them higher levels of pay.) The stories I have heard have turned me off. They have a real bunch of jerks running the Apple stores and the pay is pathetic (you'd do much better at just about any other major high end retailer in the malls [the managers do OK though.]) I assume this is why the quality of workers in the Apple stores seems to have declined so severely over the last few years (my opinion.) Seems like a lot of Apple "Associates" are pretty stupid these days.
Fortunately, retail sales is not the only choice I have on how to earn a living.
[Oh yeah, and I do own a few hundred shares of AAPL.]
Then unions here have been a key part of the labour bargain for more than a century now but their influence is diminishing. Maybe we are heading down the same path. Unfortunate, really.
I worked at the apple store in Charlotte, NC when it opened for the first time, and they treated me well and fair, my pay was according to my level of knowledge of their products and also because i was good running their point of sale computers, the managers were always there and always told me if there is anything that needs to be addressed to please speak up in our meetings so everybody can have and give their inputs.
Some people there complained about not receiving any kind of commission or bonuses for the quantity of products they sell, well some retail stores do and some others don't, if you are not agree the way they do business you are free to leave and find something that best fits for you nobody is making you stay and work against your will, if you should leave... just leave.
Thanks for reading, and i am a new member here and this topic really caught my interest.
Thanks again!
Pervert, pedophile teacher molests sixth grade student. 13 years later, the teacher can't be fired and continues to receive full salary.
Pierre was permanently removed from the classroom in 1997 after he was accused of sexually molesting a sixth-grade girl at PS 138 in Brooklyn.
But since then, Pierre has continued to receive full pay and fringe benefits, including health, pension and vacation, officials said. He pulls down $97,101 a year.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/b...5idPYynCnVJHyO
I know all about this article and other articles like it. The movie, "Waiting for Superman" hits the nail on the head. It makes me sick that people can hang on to their job after that sort gross misconduct.
I am very anti-union in it's current form. In my previous statement, I was actually referring to people that deserved to keep their job, not leeches.
The 2 years done by the union were worse than 12 of the 13 I did myself. The 13th one was a recession year when no one got raises.
This ^^^
If you don't like where you work - QUIT! No one is forcing you to be there! This is the current problem in the US. People feel entitled to more for nothing.
There was a place for unions in the past, but that time has come and gone.
2 years ago I would have agreed, but at the moment I am in a bad place, not looking to unionize or anything, but ya know, the reason I can not quit without a new job lined up is a simple one - RENT, if I don't pay it or the check doesnt clear, im screwed. Sure I have savings but shoot, what if I don't find a job in 4-6 months?