As Apple stores celebrate 10 years, some employees look to unionize

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Comments

  • Reply 141 of 179
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,405member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by boeyc15 View Post


    Then spend five minutes and type... Are afraid of your argument being challanged? But keep in mind your not everyone and your experience is unique, just like the op you responded to should have kept in mind.



    First of all, I am having a bit of a hard time understanding your post. But I get the gist. So I'll oblige. Perhaps you'll take five minutes and respond, point-by-point.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jb098 View Post


    Unions can be a bad thing. But in this case it is exactly what Apple retail needs. Employees continually perform VERY, let me repat, VERY well. Apple is a strict company and does not tolerate "sub-par" employees.



    This para makes no sense. 'Unions can be bad.' Why? 'But exactly what Apple needs'. Why? If employees 'perform well', why does Apple need unions? So that they can perform better? How can that be if unions can be 'bad'? 'Apple does not tolerate sub-par employees.' Should Apple do so? If yes, will if affect the company's performance? If no, what can or should a union do?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jb098 View Post




    However, the employees put up with A LOT of crap and work very hard to sell for the company.



    Like what? Examples? Are they forced to? Can they walk?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jb098 View Post


    Many employees have "million dollar" years, and guess what, they barely make in the low teens/ hour. It's ridiculous



    Did Apple promise anyone commissions and the renege? Did Apple tell anyone that they could get paid more if they sold more and not keep that promise? For a basic retail job for a product that sells itself, what exactly is the skill that is required that says they should make more than low teens an hour? Are other retailers paying more? Otherwise, what is the basis for your sense of entitlement?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jb098 View Post


    I can accurately say that Apple retail employees that are full time barely bring in 30k/year.



    What's wrong with $30K/year? With ~9% unemployment and ~16% underemployment in this country, a lot of very skilled, hardworking people would love to be able to make that.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jb098 View Post


    For a company that is valued higher than any other tech company, its purely disgusting.



    Because the market places a high value on the business, employees should be paid more? Why not suppliers and managers too, then? Why not customers, via lower prices for Apple products?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jb098 View Post


    Basically its good for college students.



    What's wrong with that?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jb098 View Post


    But it is not somewhere to make a career anymore



    What's wrong with that?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jb098 View Post


    All the employees that were there on DAY ONE are now managers or in other higher positions making a good middle class income.



    What's wrong with that?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jb098 View Post


    The sad thing is that people are beating down the door to work at Apple so it doesn't matter if employees quit.



    Why is the fact that people are beating down the doors to work there a 'sad thing'? Could it have something do with the fact that it's a good place to work?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jb098 View Post


    A union is what they need to threaten a complete staff walkout. Then Apple might pay attention.



    Why would employees want to threaten a 'complete staff walkout'? And, if they do, yet people continue to 'beat down the doors' how is that going to help those who walk out? Apple 'pay attention'? To what?



    Like I said, disgusting. And I should add, juvenile.
  • Reply 142 of 179
    boeyc15boeyc15 Posts: 986member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by yuusharo View Post


    I oversimplified for the sake of the point, dude. Not everyone who moves to Hollywood is going to be a star, obviously.



    I'm not blind, nor am I privileged. Of course I'm aware of the unemployment rate. You know what I've done? Got myself more education. I'm not necessarily talking about college, rather any kind of education - trade schools, certification classes at extended campuses, things that can be done on evenings after work to spruce up my resume and increase my capabilities. I work to make myself more valuable, which is what one needs to do in a recession in order to keep a job. Yeah, unemployment is high, but people are getting hired for jobs every single day. Its not all doom and gloom.



    And as I've said in the past, a "union" doesn't guarantee "better." I worked for one as a kid, and in my case the union worked AGAINST me. The supermarket I worked for had set aside such ridiculously high wages for legacy workers before the big strike in 2003 that they had barely any left to pay new hires like myself. That union worked very hard to protect itself and its legacy constituents, but did very little if anything to help me... besides taking a $500 "initiation fee" and a constant percentage of my paycheck every week. In some circles they call that "racketeering."



    Laws are in place for a reason. Its not perfect, but then again nothing is. Unions aren't perfect either, and most of them (read: not all of them) are irrelevant nowadays. If I can agree that labor laws aren't perfect, certainly you must agree that unions aren't always the answer either.



    It sounds like you dont care for unions because you did not get yours. Hope that's not what you mean.
  • Reply 143 of 179
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


    Steve Jobs should immediately fire any and all people who seek to unionize. If an employee is unhappy for whatever reason, then they are free to quit. Nobody forced them to take the job.



    Unions are disgusting and they should be abolished and made illegal.



    But Apple abducted these people off the street, held a gun to head, and forced them to work for low wages or they'll never see Mr. Kitty again. It's hard labor...restocking shelves, talking to customers, demoing iLife 11, and scanning credit cards under well-lit and air conditioned spaces.



    Hell, none of Foxconn's suicidal assembly line workers would trade their place with an Apple Store employee. No way. They'd rather be unemployed.
  • Reply 144 of 179
    kibitzerkibitzer Posts: 1,114member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


    My knowledge of history is vast. Unions may have had a place and a use in the past, but that time is long gone. Unions do more bad than good now, and there is no need for them. Unions are bad for business, bad for the economy and I will go as far as to say that the philosophy of Unions is anti-American. I can see Unions appealing to socialists, underachievers, slackers and other degenerates in society who are looking for a free ride and looking to game the system at the expense of others.



    Your critics utterly condemn your first sentence. Is there a middle ground? Would you settle for half-vast?
  • Reply 145 of 179
    jb098jb098 Posts: 4member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    First of all, I am having a bit of a hard time understanding your post. But I get the gist. So I'll oblige. Perhaps you'll take five minutes and respond, point-by-point.







    This para makes no sense. 'Unions can be bad.' Why? 'But exactly what Apple needs'. Why? If employees 'perform well', why does Apple need unions? So that they can perform better? How can that be if unions can be 'bad'? 'Apple does not tolerate sub-par employees.' Should Apple do so? If yes, will if affect the company's performance? If no, what can or should a union do?







    Like what? Examples? Are they forced to? Can they walk?







    Did Apple promise anyone commissions and the renege? Did Apple tell anyone that they could get paid more if they sold more and not keep that promise? For a basic retail job for a product that sells itself, what exactly is the skill that is required that says they should make more than low teens an hour? Are other retailers paying more? Otherwise, what is the basis for your sense of entitlement?







    What's wrong with $30K/year? With ~9% unemployment and ~16% underemployment in this country, a lot of very skilled, hardworking people would love to be able to make that.







    Because the market places a high value on the business, employees should be paid more? Why not suppliers and managers too, then? Why not customers, via lower prices for Apple products?







    What's wrong with that?







    What's wrong with that?







    What's wrong with that?







    Why is the fact that people are beating down the doors to work there a 'sad thing'? Could it have something do with the fact that it's a good place to work?







    Why would employees want to threaten a 'complete staff walkout'? And, if they do, yet people continue to 'beat down the doors' how is that going to help those who walk out? Apple 'pay attention'? To what?



    Like I said, disgusting. And I should add, juvenile.







    I happened to have worked there and saw right through a lot of went on. My position is not unique however since this story is now being spread through the internet. Others are feeling the exact same way. Apple employees are asked to do more and more and more for a company that continues to make record profits and have record amounts of traffic. All this while seeing little to no pay increase.



    Apple prides itself with being a good company and making great products all while having the persona and attitude of being the best (they are with products).



    Apple retail is only one thing. Maybe Apple corporate is different. No one is forcing employees to like or accept the way they are treated. Its just a shame thats all. A "first class" company should be giving its employees first class treatment.



    READ THE ENTIRE ORIGINAL ARTICLE! All of it is true. The lack of hours (too many part timers), the scheduled breaks, and the low wages (when you sell a million+ per year).



    Just my thoughts as someone who has experienced it.
  • Reply 146 of 179
    boeyc15boeyc15 Posts: 986member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    First of all, I am having a bit of a hard time understanding your post. But I get the gist. So I'll oblige. Perhaps you'll take five minutes and respond, point-by-point.







    This para makes no sense. 'Unions can be bad.' Why? 'But exactly what Apple needs'. Why? If employees 'perform well', why does Apple need unions? So that they can perform better? How can that be if unions can be 'bad'? 'Apple does not tolerate sub-par employees.' Should Apple do so? If yes, will if affect the company's performance? If no, what can or should a union do?







    Like what? Examples? Are they forced to? Can they walk?







    Did Apple promise anyone commissions and the renege? Did Apple tell anyone that they could get paid more if they sold more and not keep that promise? For a basic retail job for a product that sells itself, what exactly is the skill that is required that says they should make more than low teens an hour? Are other retailers paying more? Otherwise, what is the basis for your sense of entitlement?







    What's wrong with $30K/year? With ~9% unemployment and ~16% underemployment in this country, a lot of very skilled, hardworking people would love to be able to make that.







    Because the market places a high value on the business, employees should be paid more? Why not suppliers and managers too, then? Why not customers, via lower prices for Apple products?







    What's wrong with that?







    What's wrong with that?







    What's wrong with that?







    Why is the fact that people are beating down the doors to work there a 'sad thing'? Could it have something do with the fact that it's a good place to work?







    Why would employees want to threaten a 'complete staff walkout'? And, if they do, yet people continue to 'beat down the doors' how is that going to help those who walk out? Apple 'pay attention'? To what?



    Like I said, disgusting. And I should add, juvenile.



    Thanks... But for the name calling..that is juvenile...so hard to take your comments too seriously.

    So to sum up, you believe in dog eat dog, like it or leave it, be grateful for what you have, don't rock the boat. Not a problem, we know where you stand.
  • Reply 147 of 179
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 9,233member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kibitzer View Post


    Your critics utterly condemn your first sentence. Is there a middle ground? Would you settle for half-vast?



    Being the agreeable person that I am, I am fully open to reaching a compromise and if any socialists took offense to my usage of the word "vast", then I would be content with replacing it with "above average" instead.
  • Reply 148 of 179
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iMoan View Post


    Oh boy, this is going to be such a great thread. Educational and informative and full of talk about Apple products.



    Nope it is a valid discussion about apparently very ignorant Apple employees. There is no reason for anybody in retail to be a member of a union.

    Quote:

    I am soooo glad I am in a union so I am protected from people like you sir.



    This is precisely the problem with union members.

    Quote:

    I hope you never have to go home and tell your family you lost your job because some jerk (like you) came to work in a bad mood.



    You know this happens how?

    Quote:

    First and last post on this ignorant thread.



    I do hope so.



    By the way I'm not totally against unions, what I'm against is the mentality of union members like you. Contrary to some opinions expressed here I realize that some industries function best when operated in conjunction with unions. I'm also well aware of many industries where unions still have a positive impact on worker safety. However employees in Apples retail segment hardly have an issue worth representation at all.
  • Reply 149 of 179
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


    Steve Jobs should immediately fire any and all people who seek to unionize. If an employee is unhappy for whatever reason, then they are free to quit. Nobody forced them to take the job.



    Unions are disgusting and they should be abolished and made illegal.



    AMEN.... I couldn't agree with you more. Unions destroy damn near everything they touch. All they are is political money laundering organizations run by total commies.
  • Reply 150 of 179
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by n1954679 View Post


    So much for America being a free country. What a joke. Freedom extends to all areas not just the bits that you like. So that includes allowing freedom to join a union. Workers in every other Western Country have the right to be in a union. So either let people have complete freedom of association or shut the F### up about freedom.



    Wow.... freedom to be a TOTAL MORON and hand your money over to a bunch of Commies who's only concern is to bleed the company they work for DRY. Why don't you SHUT the F**K UP!



    Thank GOD I live in a Right to work state called TEXAS. We don't much care for Commies and we don't care for UNIONS either. I oftentimes fail to see any difference between the two. Most all of you are OVER PAID, UNDER INFORMED and RADICAL. Take your nonsense to a nice country like North Korea. You've overstayed your welcome in the USA.
  • Reply 151 of 179
    dsmosdsmos Posts: 1member
    I work for Apple Retail, and have for three and a half years. In that time, I've worked in multiple stores, for multiple managers, with hundreds of different co-workers, and I've held several positions within the store. After reading all of these comments, I couldn't help but join in.



    First of all, let's get one thing straight: on this planet, there are billions of people who live on less than two dollars a day, so by comparison Apple Retail isn't really all that bad. Nobody has to do anything dangerous, shifts are a standard workday's length, the environment is clean and well kept, and at the end of the day everyone who works for Apple Retail gets to go home with a lot more in their pockets than 90% of the world's population. Which is not bad.



    Secondly, there will never be a union of Apple employees, and I think anyone currently working at Apple would agree. Apple has billions of dollars in cash and it's pretty evident they're willing to spend it to get what they want. Like a multi-store glass cube on one of the most expensive pieces of real estate in Manhattan, complete with a spiral glass staircase. Or a mine in Italy so they don't have to settle for sub-par tiles for the flooring in their stores. And I can't imagine anyone with an office on the upper floors of One Infinite Loop being comfortable with the idea of a union controlling what they can and cannot do with their retail stores. One thing you learn very quickly at Apple is that Apple likes control. And that's exactly why the employees who are trying to unionize are doing it.



    In all of the time I've spent at Apple, there has been a clear and consistent message relayed by the company has been that the needs of Apple are always, and will always, be more important than your own. Anything you want from Apple will only be given to you so long as it fits the needs of the business. If it doesn't, no matter how reasonable it might be, you can forget it. It took Apple several years and a couple of lawsuits to put anti-fatigue mats behind the Genius Bar. Their reasoning for not doing so? It would ruin the aesthetics of the floor. That should tell you something.



    It's a shame, really, because ten years ago when Apple Retail was born, things were very different. They hired the best people they could find, and paid them handsomely. Work/life balance was encouraged, there were profit sharing measures in place (in the form of bonuses based upon sales performance), and the attrition rate was incredibly low. For a while, things were good. Then the iPod came along, and all of a sudden there were more and more people coming in every day. Then the iPhone happened, and the Apple Store became the shopping destination of the oughts. People formed massive lines around the block just to get in the doors when a new one opened up, and Apple couldn't build them fast enough. In the span of ten years, they built more than 300 of them worldwide, with many in prominent locations, and every single one was outfitted with row after row of hand made solid maple tables and $700 chairs for the children's tables. Clearly the investment was worth the risk - last year the retail stores took in more than $2 billion in profits. But even with revenues like that, employee's wages went lower, and lower, and lower. And since the stores were growing at such a rapid pace, and they needed leadership, Apple began hiring managers from the clothing retailers, who brought with them the bad habits and practices of that industry. The Apple culture at the Apple Store became weaker, and weaker, and today there's little difference between working at an Apple Store and working at the Gap. Except that at least at the Gap, you might be able become a manager. To do that at Apple, you'd need to quit and become a manager somewhere else first.



    You could make the argument that the people who have chosen to work at the Apple Store knew what they were getting into, and for the most part you're right. Nobody's being coerced, or forced to work against their will. But that doesn't mean they don't deserve a better deal than they're getting. While many of the people who work at Apple Stores are students, who may not need the extra income, there are also quite a few adults working there, and they have adult financial responsibilities just like everyone else. And each and every one of them works hard to try to make sure that everyone who leaves the store that day is happy. Many come to meetings on their days off to strategize about ways to help people more quickly, or convey information more efficiently. All of them are up early in the morning on the day of a product launch, working twelve, fourteen, or sixteen hour days to make sure that as many people as possible are able to buy the latest Apple product, and get their questions answered. They work on holidays, miss family gatherings, all in the name of keeping the lights on and the doors open so that you can swing by the Apple store on your way home from work, or early in the morning before it gets crowded. And how does Apple reward them? With race-to-the-bottom wages, a 3% annual raise cap, and no commission whatsoever. And please, save the "you get paid what you're worth" argument, because no degree, and no resume has ever or will ever amount to an employee's worth, and if you believe in a system where those are the only qualifications for earning more money then clearly you don't get it. Just go read Atlas Shrugged again, you'll be happier.



    So maybe unionization isn't the answer, but let's have some sympathy for the people who want to put one together. They're in a bad situation, and facing a frightening economy where quitting simply isn't an option, and all they're really trying to do is ask for some improvements from a company with $60 billion in liquid assets. If you can't at least empathize with that, then you're exactly the reason America's wealth distribution is getting worse and worse every year.
  • Reply 152 of 179
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,217member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bitzandbitez View Post


    aGREED 100% FIRE THOSE BASTARDS and take away the FREE IPHONES and IPADS they got when these things came out and EVERY APPLE WORKER got one for FREE...



    Just for the record this is NOT true. When the iphone originally came out all workers who had been there for at least a year got one. But no one after that for any models. And no free ipads. Hell, it's a good 3 months before they can get even a discount on the ipads.
  • Reply 153 of 179
    YES! Let's be like China where it's illegal to unionize! China's way is America's way! Forward to the glorious future my capitalist comrades!
  • Reply 154 of 179
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dsmos View Post


    You could make the argument that the people who have chosen to work at the Apple Store knew what they were getting into, and for the most part you're right. Nobody's being coerced, or forced to work against their will. But that doesn't mean they don't deserve a better deal than they're getting. While many of the people who work at Apple Stores are students, who may not need the extra income, there are also quite a few adults working there, and they have adult financial responsibilities just like everyone else. And each and every one of them works hard to try to make sure that everyone who leaves the store that day is happy. Many come to meetings on their days off to strategize about ways to help people more quickly, or convey information more efficiently. All of them are up early in the morning on the day of a product launch, working twelve, fourteen, or sixteen hour days to make sure that as many people as possible are able to buy the latest Apple product, and get their questions answered. They work on holidays, miss family gatherings, all in the name of keeping the lights on and the doors open so that you can swing by the Apple store on your way home from work, or early in the morning before it gets crowded. And how does Apple reward them? With race-to-the-bottom wages, a 3% annual raise cap, and no commission whatsoever. And please, save the "you get paid what you're worth" argument, because no degree, and no resume has ever or will ever amount to an employee's worth, and if you believe in a system where those are the only qualifications for earning more money then clearly you don't get it. Just go read Atlas Shrugged again, you'll be happier.



    So maybe unionization isn't the answer, but let's have some sympathy for the people who want to put one together. They're in a bad situation, and facing a frightening economy where quitting simply isn't an option, and all they're really trying to do is ask for some improvements from a company with $60 billion in liquid assets. If you can't at least empathize with that, then you're exactly the reason America's wealth distribution is getting worse and worse every year.





    Disagree. Having been with Apple Retail should make you more attractive to other employers especially if you're as hardworking as painted in the top paragraph. If you feel you're not getting what your worth at Apple then shop around and move on to another post with better opportunities. I'm sure a lot have done just that both in Retail and Apple HQ.



    In the second paragraph, you mention they're in a bad situation. What kind of bad situation would that be? Please elaborate cuz I fail to see it. And quitting is always an option, just make sure you've got something else lined up. And if you don't try harder.



    As for that last thing regarding wealth distribution, A) paper wealth, B) lawmaker's fault but people ultimately let them get away with it. Keeping close tab on the debt ceiling because it'll affect the entire world and if things really go sour, these Apple employees will be thankful for the 'bad' job they have.
  • Reply 155 of 179
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gcom006 View Post


    And if it makes any pro-union people feel better, I dislike the stock market in general far more than unions and view it as an even bigger problem.



    Apple is a wonderful example to center on in both discussions though, as it's very clear that Apple/Jobs is not a pro-union guy and wouldn't stand for any of the union antics at all, and they're also a public company that consistently refuses to bow to the will of the shareholders for the sake of the company.



    They say things that are unpopular. They're vague. They're straight up secretive. They don't reward shareholders despite record profits, preferring to bank the money for strategic investments in the future. Then they spend billions on these "strategic investments" without expanding any more on what they actually are.



    But all the while they "somehow" seem to be ahead of the curve, ever-increasingly profitable and generally the most highly-regarded company in the world, lead by the most admired CEO in the world.



    Maybe there's something to that.



    Companies that continually bow to unions and to shareholders are continuing to struggle. Who's really leading the company at that point? Anyone? You can't progress successfully with that kind of leadership in place. You need the right people with the right ideas calling the shots because that's what their job is. All of this quarter-to-quarter profit concern crap leads to completely backward thinking. Most businesses need to take risks to innovate and remain successful. The more difficult you make it for a business to do that, the less successful the business will ultimately be.



    If you don't have strong enough leaders to stand up to the unions and the shareholders in this day and age, you're doomed. I don't care if it's cliche, it's still one of the best quotes on business I've ever read, and I think it applies well to all matters at hand.



    "If I'd have asked my customers what they wanted, they would have told me 'A faster horse.'" -Henry Ford



    I think the robber barons of the late 19th century would love you. Lets bring back the era of un accountability among corporations. Apple does not pay dividend because you buy the stock to go along for the ride: ie gambling. Actually Apple started out being a more forward thinkings but since it got a taste of being a monopoly in certain products the greed factor has kicked in big time. How often do you read about Apple giving money to charities. they sit on billions of dollars of cash and they make money off their employees, they can't even offer them a decent discount on products. When i worked in retail at least i could buy the company i worked for their products at cost. The employees at Apple have to meet sales quota with no monterey reward.
  • Reply 156 of 179
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    This is a superb and balanced post. It bears re-reading a few times. I have had experience in office jobs and retail jobs at non-Apple-related and Apple resellers. Granted, not Apple Store, but we faced all the things the poster talks about.



    Again, great post.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dsmos View Post


    I work for Apple Retail, and have for three and a half years. In that time, I've worked in multiple stores, for multiple managers, with hundreds of different co-workers, and I've held several positions within the store. After reading all of these comments, I couldn't help but join in.



    First of all, let's get one thing straight: on this planet, there are billions of people who live on less than two dollars a day, so by comparison Apple Retail isn't really all that bad. Nobody has to do anything dangerous, shifts are a standard workday's length, the environment is clean and well kept, and at the end of the day everyone who works for Apple Retail gets to go home with a lot more in their pockets than 90% of the world's population. Which is not bad.



    Secondly, there will never be a union of Apple employees, and I think anyone currently working at Apple would agree. Apple has billions of dollars in cash and it's pretty evident they're willing to spend it to get what they want. Like a multi-store glass cube on one of the most expensive pieces of real estate in Manhattan, complete with a spiral glass staircase. Or a mine in Italy so they don't have to settle for sub-par tiles for the flooring in their stores. And I can't imagine anyone with an office on the upper floors of One Infinite Loop being comfortable with the idea of a union controlling what they can and cannot do with their retail stores. One thing you learn very quickly at Apple is that Apple likes control. And that's exactly why the employees who are trying to unionize are doing it.



    In all of the time I've spent at Apple, there has been a clear and consistent message relayed by the company has been that the needs of Apple are always, and will always, be more important than your own. Anything you want from Apple will only be given to you so long as it fits the needs of the business. If it doesn't, no matter how reasonable it might be, you can forget it. It took Apple several years and a couple of lawsuits to put anti-fatigue mats behind the Genius Bar. Their reasoning for not doing so? It would ruin the aesthetics of the floor. That should tell you something.



    It's a shame, really, because ten years ago when Apple Retail was born, things were very different. They hired the best people they could find, and paid them handsomely. Work/life balance was encouraged, there were profit sharing measures in place (in the form of bonuses based upon sales performance), and the attrition rate was incredibly low. For a while, things were good. Then the iPod came along, and all of a sudden there were more and more people coming in every day. Then the iPhone happened, and the Apple Store became the shopping destination of the oughts. People formed massive lines around the block just to get in the doors when a new one opened up, and Apple couldn't build them fast enough. In the span of ten years, they built more than 300 of them worldwide, with many in prominent locations, and every single one was outfitted with row after row of hand made solid maple tables and $700 chairs for the children's tables. Clearly the investment was worth the risk - last year the retail stores took in more than $2 billion in profits. But even with revenues like that, employee's wages went lower, and lower, and lower. And since the stores were growing at such a rapid pace, and they needed leadership, Apple began hiring managers from the clothing retailers, who brought with them the bad habits and practices of that industry. The Apple culture at the Apple Store became weaker, and weaker, and today there's little difference between working at an Apple Store and working at the Gap. Except that at least at the Gap, you might be able become a manager. To do that at Apple, you'd need to quit and become a manager somewhere else first.



    You could make the argument that the people who have chosen to work at the Apple Store knew what they were getting into, and for the most part you're right. Nobody's being coerced, or forced to work against their will. But that doesn't mean they don't deserve a better deal than they're getting. While many of the people who work at Apple Stores are students, who may not need the extra income, there are also quite a few adults working there, and they have adult financial responsibilities just like everyone else. And each and every one of them works hard to try to make sure that everyone who leaves the store that day is happy. Many come to meetings on their days off to strategize about ways to help people more quickly, or convey information more efficiently. All of them are up early in the morning on the day of a product launch, working twelve, fourteen, or sixteen hour days to make sure that as many people as possible are able to buy the latest Apple product, and get their questions answered. They work on holidays, miss family gatherings, all in the name of keeping the lights on and the doors open so that you can swing by the Apple store on your way home from work, or early in the morning before it gets crowded. And how does Apple reward them? With race-to-the-bottom wages, a 3% annual raise cap, and no commission whatsoever. And please, save the "you get paid what you're worth" argument, because no degree, and no resume has ever or will ever amount to an employee's worth, and if you believe in a system where those are the only qualifications for earning more money then clearly you don't get it. Just go read Atlas Shrugged again, you'll be happier.



    So maybe unionization isn't the answer, but let's have some sympathy for the people who want to put one together. They're in a bad situation, and facing a frightening economy where quitting simply isn't an option, and all they're really trying to do is ask for some improvements from a company with $60 billion in liquid assets. If you can't at least empathize with that, then you're exactly the reason America's wealth distribution is getting worse and worse every year.



  • Reply 157 of 179
    deansoleckideansolecki Posts: 256member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Zaphodsplanet View Post


    Wow.... freedom to be a TOTAL MORON and hand your money over to a bunch of Commies who's only concern is to bleed the company they work for DRY. Why don't you SHUT the F**K UP!



    Thank GOD I live in a Right to work state called TEXAS. We don't much care for Commies and we don't care for UNIONS either. I oftentimes fail to see any difference between the two. Most all of you are OVER PAID, UNDER INFORMED and RADICAL. Take your nonsense to a nice country like North Korea. You've overstayed your welcome in the USA.



    LOL! It's always someone from Texas that does the, "This is UH-MUUUUR'CA! You don't like it, (and "it" being whatever this guy from Texas happens to be spouting) GIT OUT!"



    My guess is there are two types of Texans, therefore. Those that earn wages in the top 2% of Uh-mur'can society (since you believe they're the only people that deserve rights of any kind) and those that read at a second grade level. (since you've bought into supporting the interests of a class that you don't even belong to because some d-bag told you Jesus hates equality.... Although it doesn't take much arguing to show that the "historical Jesus" was one of those radical commies you keep going on about and if you could read the Bible you would have noticed it)



    Which are you?



    I guess to be fair GWB was in both of those categories.
  • Reply 158 of 179
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jb098 View Post


    Unions can be a bad thing. But in this case it is exactly what Apple retail needs. Employees continually perform VERY, let me repat, VERY well. Apple is a strict company and does not tolerate "sub-par" employees.



    Unions by their nature protect the sub par.

    Quote:

    However, the employees put up with A LOT of crap and work very hard to sell for the company. Many employees have "million dollar" years, and guess what, they barely make in the low teens/ hour. It's ridiculous.



    They are clerks what do you honestly expect? Honestly if they are making ten dollars an hour they are overpaid.



    As to working hard, I've yet to see an Apple retail employee working hard.

    Quote:



    I can accurately say that Apple retail employees that are full time barely bring in 30k/year. For a company that is valued higher than any other tech company, its purely disgusting. Employees are coached to believe working there is a labor of love.



    Frankly they are overpaid if that is true.

    Quote:



    Basically its good for college students. But it is not somewhere to make a career anymore. All the employees that were there on DAY ONE are now managers or in other higher positions making a good middle class income.



    Retail is not and never has been a career. If you believe that at all you are living a fantasy.



    As to the upper level positions that is why you get on board early.

    Quote:

    The sad thing is that people are beating down the door to work at Apple so it doesn't matter if employees quit. A union is what they need to threaten a complete staff walkout. Then Apple might pay attention.



    Pay attention to what? Lazy people that don't want to work? People that think retail is a career? Just plain idiots.



    I think the problem here is pretty clear, a bunch of people with a poor work ethic think they can maintain their lazy a$$ by getting a union to "protect them". It is a pathetic example of just how badly the countries work ethic has diminished.
  • Reply 159 of 179
    deansoleckideansolecki Posts: 256member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    Unions by their nature protect the sub par.



    They are clerks what do you honestly expect? Honestly if they are making ten dollars an hour they are overpaid.



    As to working hard, I've yet to see an Apple retail employee working hard.



    Frankly they are overpaid if that is true.



    Retail is not and never has been a career. If you believe that at all you are living a fantasy.



    As to the upper level positions that is why you get on board early.





    Pay attention to what? Lazy people that don't want to work? People that think retail is a career? Just plain idiots.



    I think the problem here is pretty clear, a bunch of people with a poor work ethic think they can maintain their lazy a$$ by getting a union to "protect them". It is a pathetic example of just how badly the countries work ethic has diminished.



    So everyone that works retail is lazy and stupid?



    Are you from Texas?
  • Reply 160 of 179
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,405member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by boeyc15 View Post


    Thanks... But for the name calling..that is juvenile...so hard to take your comments too seriously.

    So to sum up, you believe in dog eat dog, like it or leave it, be grateful for what you have, don't rock the boat. Not a problem, we know where you stand.



    Juvenile.



    And, as I suspected, lazy.
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