I remember they used to say that back in the pre-OSX days, about intel chips and Motorola chips. They could put one of each processor in there and....
Yes, I think that would be the planned route. The ARM motherboard can fit into a $99 ATV so is inexpensive to add and just like the Intel IGP + dedicated graphics, could be used to dictate which chip gets used for which tasks. Browsing the web, run Safari on ARM and get 20 hours of battery life (if Flash is needed, jump to x86). Running Office, run it on the x86 intel i5.
Nothing wrong with using an inexpensive co-processor.
Accept it would take a lot of work on the part of the developers to make that happen. Companies like Adobe and Microsoft would not be pleased. For now, Macs running on Intel is a good thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by saarek
Not so sure why people are so against this, for a machine like the MacBook Air a custom designed chip and board would be a real benefit, think of the benefits that such control could give to Apple.
I doubt Apple would stop using Intel chips in the bulk of their computer line up.
Besides, we have Universal applications on our Mac's, no reason why overtime they could not support the Arm architecture.
Accept it would take a lot of work on the part of the developers to make that happen. Companies like Adobe and Microsoft would not be pleased. For now, Macs running on Intel is a good thing.
Except, for Excel -- most of the MS apps aren't compute-bound. Adobe apps however could/should be able to use all the CPU and GPU cores you can throw at them.
If developers were to rewrite their Mac OS X apps to use OpenCL and GCD -- then the OS could take care of managing the cores.
Therefore, I would be surprised if Apple were NOT testing various combinations of hybrid hardware, hybrid OS -- with apps capable of exploiting both (by delegating that to the OS).
I never really understood why people would want to use a notebook/laptop to do video work. Personally I need a big desk for my camera, decks, external drive, breakout, playback monitor, a nice big mouse pad, tons of cables, a big ergonomic chair, custom keyboard, and at least one 30" cinema display. I look at laptops as portable devices that come with a lot of compromises. Video editing is one of those disciplines, like cad or desktop publishing, that requires an office, in my opinion.
Agreed when working on a serious project I want my big screens but I am an addict and love being able to take my i7 with me anywhere and still mess around with HD video I take ... on vacation for example.
Don't forget Apple is still pissed off at Intel for integrating their graphics and making the Nvida graphics chipset illegal after c2d. That's why the Macbook air still has an ancient processor - the pre Sandy bridge i-series had poor integrated intel graphics and Apple wanted better graphics performance not worse for the 2nd and 3rd gen macbook airs - Intel completely torpedoed Apple's plans and strategy and it cost them dearly until the new Sandy bridge Macbook airs are hopefully released very soon.
I think Apple doesn't trust Intel for it's low power portable line and Apple is a company that wants full control - and they can't control Intel and what graphic options there are. A switch to ARM for the low power laptops allow's Apple to call all the shots. That and ARM will probably allow longer battery life, though it will screw up the developers and the corporate market needing Bootcamp options and backwards compatibility.
Apple is a very spiteful company and is doesn't care so much if it's vengeance causes heartburn to it's developers and customers.
P.S. I love apple products, but I wouldn't consider an ARM macbook air - at least until maybe 5 years later when all apps were updated and win 8 ran on it which is doubtful...
The trimming down of OSX with Snow Leopard, the success of the iOS, iPhones and iPads, the almost ubiquitous free wifi, cell 3g & 4g increased coverage, the cloud, the NC data center, the steady decrease in the price of Flash storage, and the success of the MBA all lead me to believe Apple is heading towards basically iPads with keyboards for their line of laptops.
They will have a "power user" laptop...but the Mac line will become more and more iPads and MBA's!
When the new MBA is released in the next several weeks, it'll be fun to come back and see how completely full of crap this "anonymous source" was.
You're completely missing the point. This is definitely not something that is considered for a release in a few weeks...if ever. It's a lab test at best and as such pretty interesting. A5 is a competent CPU and who know what the A6 (or whatever next generation will be called) would do in terms of performance. An MBA with double the battery time would be interesting to a lot of customers...
If it ever happens it's not this year and probably not next year either...
Windows on bootcamp. Even if MS produces an ARM version of Windows, you'd still have millions and millions of people with legacy software they would not want to re-purchase.
I absolutely agree with you. It would be a big disadvantage to NOT have Windows * as a possible OS on any Apple laptop. Even if I don't use it, I want the possibility having Windows on my computers.
The trimming down of OSX with Snow Leopard, the success of the iOS, iPhones and iPads, the almost ubiquitous free wifi, cell 3g & 4g increased coverage, the cloud, the NC data center, the steady decrease in the price of Flash storage, and the success of the MBA all lead me to believe Apple is heading towards basically iPads with keyboards for their line of laptops.
They will have a "power user" laptop...but the Mac line will become more and more iPads and MBA's!
Best
Makes perfect sense to me. As the pro line looses its optical drives and go solid state it would help differentiate the Air and Pro line further. Specially as much of daily computing is becoming net based. As long as basic (very basic) image and video editing is still possible most people's computer requirements are not that great. I imagine the price point would be between iPad and present day Air making such a machine very attractive.
As has been said whenever this comes up, I doubt its ARM only. If this is true, it could be an ARM processor and iOS for a quick boot/low power mode, plus a beefier x86 processor and OSX for real work.
I'm not buying apple will transition away from the intel architecture, there's just too much at stake and invested that would put everyone at risk to warrant the move. Besides, intel macs are performance wise equal or superior to windows based PC's.
I disagree partially. I don't think Apple is as tied up with Intel as say, Microsoft is with Windows PCs. Since Apple is so vertically integrated, they could do it if they chose to. You will of course remember that they successfully moved from PowerPC to Intel not so long ago.
Also, you may recall that when the switch to Intel was announced, Steve Jobs said that Apple had been running x86-based builds of Mac OS X internally for years prior to the switch, and that is totally believable since NeXTSTEP had switched from the 68030-based hardware to Intel 486 back in the 1990s. This could be the beginning of the same. I don't think Apple is ready to switch tomorrow, but it's one of those long term options they could keep for themselves, should Intel fail to deliver for whatever reason. But no, I would be surprised to hear an announcement about switching to A5 for in immediate future.
I absolutely agree with you. It would be a big disadvantage to NOT have Windows * as a possible OS on any Apple laptop. Even if I don't use it, I want the possibility having Windows on my computers.
I agree for many users. That's why a few here have suggested a dual CPU approach. Throw in an Intel chip too that can be used when needed. Or maybe as a BTO option for those that want it?
If I recall, the reason they moved from PowerPC to Intel was that Intel had better mobile solutions. So if nothing else, Apple would at least be consistent to do this.
And from what I hear the Macbook Air has been hugely successful since the last revision. And then there was the (admittedly flash in the pan) success of netbooks. And the iPad of course. So the jury is in, people want thin.
Just trying to offer you some help, didn't mean to offend you. My observations are simply because of comparisons in rendering times to an 8 Core Mac Pro which was my standard experience. The i7 (I never tried an i5) was pretty amazing whereas the C2D was very slow in comparison. This was last year when I bought and C2D was standard in MBPs. Of course people can use C2Ds, heck I created two years worth of TV shows for ESPN on a Power Mac (OK it wasn't HD then lol) ... it's aways a matter of perspective.
I wasn't offended at all. If anything, it was me who didn't choose my words correctly. I just meant to present the argument that people have been using laptops for mobile video/audio work for years therefore why wouldn't MBA/CD2 be capable as well.
I am getting chills of Deja Vu here. Remembering when macs were 68030 chips, and were useless in mixed environments. Its ok to ditch DVD drives, and firewire, but when I am no longer able to access the VPN for my employer, its nothing but a lightweight anchor (or skipping rock). I just hope they don't let the iOS hype go completely to their head, and forget what success they have had in the last 8-10 years for folks like me, that need their computers for Biz.
Oh, and for those that say "well, your IT department needs to update so you can connect with iPads and iOS," Good luck with that! Easier to turn a super tanker in the middle of the Panama Canal!
If it's a special client software your notebook requires, then wait getting an ARM-based MBA until that software has been re-compiled for ARM. Problem solved. (Assuming we're talking OS X on ARM-MBA.)
I think that perhaps Apple has got more developers dedicated to ARM than INTEL by now, with the huge success of iOS. All these iOS developers would get very comfy in developing apps for a fat ARM desktop platform, whether it be Mac OS X or "iOS+".
... Of course we'd have to wait three years for Adobe to support such a shift.
Comments
I remember they used to say that back in the pre-OSX days, about intel chips and Motorola chips. They could put one of each processor in there and....
Yes, I think that would be the planned route. The ARM motherboard can fit into a $99 ATV so is inexpensive to add and just like the Intel IGP + dedicated graphics, could be used to dictate which chip gets used for which tasks. Browsing the web, run Safari on ARM and get 20 hours of battery life (if Flash is needed, jump to x86). Running Office, run it on the x86 intel i5.
Nothing wrong with using an inexpensive co-processor.
Yeah, but...
There's video editing, then there's video editing.
You mean cutting out the part where the dog is licking his butt and just use the part where he catches the frisbee, then share on Facebook?
Not so sure why people are so against this, for a machine like the MacBook Air a custom designed chip and board would be a real benefit, think of the benefits that such control could give to Apple.
I doubt Apple would stop using Intel chips in the bulk of their computer line up.
Besides, we have Universal applications on our Mac's, no reason why overtime they could not support the Arm architecture.
You mean cutting out the part where the dog is licking his butt and just use the part where he catches the frisbee, then share on Facebook?
Bingo!
You professional editors are really story-tellers.
...and, that's what it's all about!
Accept it would take a lot of work on the part of the developers to make that happen. Companies like Adobe and Microsoft would not be pleased. For now, Macs running on Intel is a good thing.
Except, for Excel -- most of the MS apps aren't compute-bound. Adobe apps however could/should be able to use all the CPU and GPU cores you can throw at them.
If developers were to rewrite their Mac OS X apps to use OpenCL and GCD -- then the OS could take care of managing the cores.
Therefore, I would be surprised if Apple were NOT testing various combinations of hybrid hardware, hybrid OS -- with apps capable of exploiting both (by delegating that to the OS).
Ahh...but FCS is old and bloated code that does not take advantage of GCD and OpenCL to exploit multiple CPU and GPU cores.
I suspect that FCPX, in July, will blow away FCS performance on any Intel chipset -- and might perform well on ARM A5, and above with more RAM.
I can't wait!
Very good point!
I never really understood why people would want to use a notebook/laptop to do video work. Personally I need a big desk for my camera, decks, external drive, breakout, playback monitor, a nice big mouse pad, tons of cables, a big ergonomic chair, custom keyboard, and at least one 30" cinema display. I look at laptops as portable devices that come with a lot of compromises. Video editing is one of those disciplines, like cad or desktop publishing, that requires an office, in my opinion.
Agreed when working on a serious project I want my big screens but I am an addict and love being able to take my i7 with me anywhere and still mess around with HD video I take ... on vacation for example.
I think Apple doesn't trust Intel for it's low power portable line and Apple is a company that wants full control - and they can't control Intel and what graphic options there are. A switch to ARM for the low power laptops allow's Apple to call all the shots. That and ARM will probably allow longer battery life, though it will screw up the developers and the corporate market needing Bootcamp options and backwards compatibility.
Apple is a very spiteful company and is doesn't care so much if it's vengeance causes heartburn to it's developers and customers.
P.S. I love apple products, but I wouldn't consider an ARM macbook air - at least until maybe 5 years later when all apps were updated and win 8 ran on it which is doubtful...
They will have a "power user" laptop...but the Mac line will become more and more iPads and MBA's!
Best
Bookmarked.
When the new MBA is released in the next several weeks, it'll be fun to come back and see how completely full of crap this "anonymous source" was.
You're completely missing the point. This is definitely not something that is considered for a release in a few weeks...if ever. It's a lab test at best and as such pretty interesting. A5 is a competent CPU and who know what the A6 (or whatever next generation will be called) would do in terms of performance. An MBA with double the battery time would be interesting to a lot of customers...
If it ever happens it's not this year and probably not next year either...
Windows on bootcamp. Even if MS produces an ARM version of Windows, you'd still have millions and millions of people with legacy software they would not want to re-purchase.
I absolutely agree with you. It would be a big disadvantage to NOT have Windows * as a possible OS on any Apple laptop. Even if I don't use it, I want the possibility having Windows on my computers.
The trimming down of OSX with Snow Leopard, the success of the iOS, iPhones and iPads, the almost ubiquitous free wifi, cell 3g & 4g increased coverage, the cloud, the NC data center, the steady decrease in the price of Flash storage, and the success of the MBA all lead me to believe Apple is heading towards basically iPads with keyboards for their line of laptops.
They will have a "power user" laptop...but the Mac line will become more and more iPads and MBA's!
Best
Makes perfect sense to me. As the pro line looses its optical drives and go solid state it would help differentiate the Air and Pro line further. Specially as much of daily computing is becoming net based. As long as basic (very basic) image and video editing is still possible most people's computer requirements are not that great. I imagine the price point would be between iPad and present day Air making such a machine very attractive.
I'm not buying apple will transition away from the intel architecture, there's just too much at stake and invested that would put everyone at risk to warrant the move. Besides, intel macs are performance wise equal or superior to windows based PC's.
I disagree partially. I don't think Apple is as tied up with Intel as say, Microsoft is with Windows PCs. Since Apple is so vertically integrated, they could do it if they chose to. You will of course remember that they successfully moved from PowerPC to Intel not so long ago.
Also, you may recall that when the switch to Intel was announced, Steve Jobs said that Apple had been running x86-based builds of Mac OS X internally for years prior to the switch, and that is totally believable since NeXTSTEP had switched from the 68030-based hardware to Intel 486 back in the 1990s. This could be the beginning of the same. I don't think Apple is ready to switch tomorrow, but it's one of those long term options they could keep for themselves, should Intel fail to deliver for whatever reason. But no, I would be surprised to hear an announcement about switching to A5 for in immediate future.
I absolutely agree with you. It would be a big disadvantage to NOT have Windows * as a possible OS on any Apple laptop. Even if I don't use it, I want the possibility having Windows on my computers.
I agree for many users. That's why a few here have suggested a dual CPU approach. Throw in an Intel chip too that can be used when needed. Or maybe as a BTO option for those that want it?
And from what I hear the Macbook Air has been hugely successful since the last revision. And then there was the (admittedly flash in the pan) success of netbooks. And the iPad of course. So the jury is in, people want thin.
Just trying to offer you some help, didn't mean to offend you. My observations are simply because of comparisons in rendering times to an 8 Core Mac Pro which was my standard experience. The i7 (I never tried an i5) was pretty amazing whereas the C2D was very slow in comparison. This was last year when I bought and C2D was standard in MBPs. Of course people can use C2Ds, heck I created two years worth of TV shows for ESPN on a Power Mac (OK it wasn't HD then lol) ... it's aways a matter of perspective.
I wasn't offended at all. If anything, it was me who didn't choose my words correctly. I just meant to present the argument that people have been using laptops for mobile video/audio work for years therefore why wouldn't MBA/CD2 be capable as well.
Oh, and for those that say "well, your IT department needs to update so you can connect with iPads and iOS," Good luck with that! Easier to turn a super tanker in the middle of the Panama Canal!
If it's a special client software your notebook requires, then wait getting an ARM-based MBA until that software has been re-compiled for ARM. Problem solved. (Assuming we're talking OS X on ARM-MBA.)
... Of course we'd have to wait three years for Adobe to support such a shift.