Because solar is still extremely inefficient. There is more power from a gas turbine than could be made with a massive array of solar panels which is actually an environmental nightmare when you're talking about so many trees.
The reflection from the panels will make those trees a ticking time bomb and I'm sure that's exactly what California needs is more risk of fire.
WHO SAYS THEY WILL BE USING A GAS TURBINE. the interview says they will be making electricity from natural gas. But what i don't see on the design are any cooling towers to provide the turbine with the necessary cooling facility to run optimally.
I wouldn't be surprised if apple would be building a massive solid oxide fuel cell, like the ones made by bloom energy. Bloom energy developed a cell that still costs you a pretty penny, but produces twice as much electricity from a cubic foot of natural gas as a turbine does. The trick is to run this ceramic fuel cells at high temperatures (close to 1000 C) and the natural gas will transform itself into C02 and H20 and FREE electrons... no more magnets spinning in a big machine and there is no thermodynamic phase changes. everything happens in a quite little box. another advantage of such a system is that you can produce power that DC (direct current) and goes straight into a server. No need to create an AC/DC electrical circuit, to then be transformed at to server level back to DC. The drawback to providing a DC current to your servers is that your power generator has to be very close to your power consumer.
If so I wouldn't be surprised that Apple's massive underground parking structure, might have a few extra underground floors and house a server farm.
Very cool. Not carbon-free but at least a step in the right direction. Maybe there's hope yet. Would be interesting to see some numbers on how this compares to solar.
Does natural gas + bloom boxes still cost more than solar panels? Over what timespan? Curious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolivier79
WHO SAYS THEY WILL BE USING A GAS TURBINE. the interview says they will be making electricity from natural gas. But what i don't see on the design are any cooling towers to provide the turbine with the necessary cooling facility to run optimally.
I wouldn't be surprised if apple would be building a massive solid oxide fuel cell, like the ones made by bloom energy. Bloom energy developed a cell that still costs you a pretty penny, but produces twice as much electricity from a cubic foot of natural gas as a turbine does. The trick is to run this ceramic fuel cells at high temperatures (close to 1000 C) and the natural gas will transform itself into C02 and H20 and FREE electrons... no more magnets spinning in a big machine and there is no thermodynamic phase changes. everything happens in a quite little box. another advantage of such a system is that you can produce power that DC (direct current) and goes straight into a server. No need to create an AC/DC electrical circuit, to then be transformed at to server level back to DC. The drawback to providing a DC current to your servers is that your power generator has to be very close to your power consumer.
If so I wouldn't be surprised that Apple's massive underground parking structure, might have a few extra underground floors and house a server farm.
Thanks For sharing nice post. I think he's actually coming from tomorrow, the other side of the dateline, so he doesn't get the drift of the discourse ahead of his posting, if that makes sense.
Yes, I don't think Apple should have carte blanche to do what they want just because it's already so stunning... Maybe the real questions the city council as well as the state should be asking is what about solar? There are many new office buildings around the world being built that are already "greener" than this. Yes, architect students will come to see it but it's not really an epitome of a green building.
Wow! Really? They shouldn't? They probably aren't going to break any laws building it (considering they have a pretty good track record with all the Apple Stores) other than the imaginary ones you are proposing... isn't California already a bit hostile to business?
well... it's an outrage I tell you... OUTRAGE! They should dedicate part of that land to wind turbines, wave machines, and geo-thermal, offer local co-op organic farming, dedicate some habitat for the rare Madagascar fractured moth mosquito, open a orphanage, give away have their profits to those less fortunate in the area, set aside 15% of the land for native Americans, make reparations to descendants of slavery, make sure that at least 22% of all R&D goes towards designing products that don't use any energy, minerals, metals, tree or dinosaur based products, chemicals or child or Asian labor. Perhaps they should convert the garage for all those cars to a public ice-skating rink, make everyone ride bikes to work and once they get to work, they walk on treadmills to generate power to run their Macs. And then at the end of the week, when they stop by the payroll window to pick up their weekly check, since they will obviously be in a higher tax bracket, then can (willingly) donate all that extra money they make (after 36% fed and 11% state, Medicare, FICA, and Healthcare), to help pay down the national debt because they probably stole every dime they ever made and need to pay their fair share.
Then again, maybe we can wait and see what Apple plans on doing on the who, what, when, where and whys of construction before we gather up the pitchforks and torches and storm their stores for being such a bad corporate citizen... unless you somehow gleaned their "green plans" by looking at artists renderings on a slide presentation from a youTube video at 360p. If you have such knowledge... please, share with the rest of the class.
Wow! Really? They shouldn't? They probably aren't going to break any laws building it (considering they have a pretty good track record with all the Apple Stores) other than the imaginary ones you are proposing... isn't California already a bit hostile to business?
well... it's an outrage I tell you... OUTRAGE! They should dedicate part of that land to wind turbines, wave machines, and geo-thermal, offer local co-op organic farming, dedicate some habitat for the rare Madagascar fractured moth mosquito, open a orphanage, give away have their profits to those less fortunate in the area, set aside 15% of the land for native Americans, make reparations to descendants of slavery, make sure that at least 22% of all R&D goes towards designing products that don't use any energy, minerals, metals, tree or dinosaur based products, chemicals or child or Asian labor. Perhaps they should convert the garage for all those cars to a public ice-skating rink, make everyone ride bikes to work and once they get to work, they walk on treadmills to generate power to run their Macs. And then at the end of the week, when they stop by the payroll window to pick up their weekly check, since they will obviously be in a higher tax bracket, then can (willingly) donate all that extra money they make (after 36% fed and 11% state, Medicare, FICA, and Healthcare), to help pay down the national debt because they probably stole every dime they ever made and need to pay their fair share.
Then again, maybe we can wait and see what Apple plans on doing on the who, what, when, where and whys of construction before we gather up the pitchforks and torches and storm their stores for being such a bad corporate citizen... unless you somehow gleaned their "green plans" by looking at artists renderings on a slide presentation from a youTube video at 360p. If you have such knowledge... please, share with the rest of the class.
That was quite a rave... I mean rant. Have a look through all 8 pages of this thread and then get back to us. I clarified what I meant by "it may not be the epitome of a green building" in various subsequent posts. We have also discussed what Apple could do. Yes, some of the land could be a public park, some could be a building for education/ courses/ seminars. I'm not the only one that had this idea. Various companies like Google have solar installations, it's not outrageous to wonder whether Apple would/ should do so.
As for:
"Then again, maybe we can wait and see what Apple plans on doing on the who, what, when, where and whys of construction before we gather up the pitchforks and torches and storm their stores for being such a bad corporate citizen..."
That's pretty much what we've decided on this thread, we await more news eagerly. Nice strawman and hyperbole but I never said Apple was being a bad corporate citizen nor that the spaceship should be a hippie utopia. Nor did anyone say employees should be forced to contribute monetarily to anything, which is ridiculous. My angle was more towards what questions the city council should have asked instead of free wifi and free iPads (if the free iPads were for Cupertino schools or interesting pilot projects (with subsequent purchases borne by the institutions/city council) then it would have made some sense).
Then again you might have gleaned all this if you have actually read the whole thread.
The day after giving a keynote at the Worldwide Developers Conference, Apple CEO Steve Jobs presented the company's plans for a second campus in Cupertino, Calif., which would feature a round building that would hold 12,000 Apple employees, to the city council.
This building begs for a giant propeller in the middle.
Nope. Not kidding. Neither their sterile low-rise glass ring in the 'burbs nor their featureless glass facades in the midst of brick and granite neighborhoods strike me as good architecture.
Comments
Because solar is still extremely inefficient. There is more power from a gas turbine than could be made with a massive array of solar panels which is actually an environmental nightmare when you're talking about so many trees.
The reflection from the panels will make those trees a ticking time bomb and I'm sure that's exactly what California needs is more risk of fire.
WHO SAYS THEY WILL BE USING A GAS TURBINE. the interview says they will be making electricity from natural gas. But what i don't see on the design are any cooling towers to provide the turbine with the necessary cooling facility to run optimally.
I wouldn't be surprised if apple would be building a massive solid oxide fuel cell, like the ones made by bloom energy. Bloom energy developed a cell that still costs you a pretty penny, but produces twice as much electricity from a cubic foot of natural gas as a turbine does. The trick is to run this ceramic fuel cells at high temperatures (close to 1000 C) and the natural gas will transform itself into C02 and H20 and FREE electrons... no more magnets spinning in a big machine and there is no thermodynamic phase changes. everything happens in a quite little box. another advantage of such a system is that you can produce power that DC (direct current) and goes straight into a server. No need to create an AC/DC electrical circuit, to then be transformed at to server level back to DC. The drawback to providing a DC current to your servers is that your power generator has to be very close to your power consumer.
If so I wouldn't be surprised that Apple's massive underground parking structure, might have a few extra underground floors and house a server farm.
Anyway. check out the BloomBox
Bloom Box on 60 Minutes
Does natural gas + bloom boxes still cost more than solar panels? Over what timespan? Curious.
WHO SAYS THEY WILL BE USING A GAS TURBINE. the interview says they will be making electricity from natural gas. But what i don't see on the design are any cooling towers to provide the turbine with the necessary cooling facility to run optimally.
I wouldn't be surprised if apple would be building a massive solid oxide fuel cell, like the ones made by bloom energy. Bloom energy developed a cell that still costs you a pretty penny, but produces twice as much electricity from a cubic foot of natural gas as a turbine does. The trick is to run this ceramic fuel cells at high temperatures (close to 1000 C) and the natural gas will transform itself into C02 and H20 and FREE electrons... no more magnets spinning in a big machine and there is no thermodynamic phase changes. everything happens in a quite little box. another advantage of such a system is that you can produce power that DC (direct current) and goes straight into a server. No need to create an AC/DC electrical circuit, to then be transformed at to server level back to DC. The drawback to providing a DC current to your servers is that your power generator has to be very close to your power consumer.
If so I wouldn't be surprised that Apple's massive underground parking structure, might have a few extra underground floors and house a server farm.
Anyway. check out the BloomBox
Bloom Box on 60 Minutes
Yes, I don't think Apple should have carte blanche to do what they want just because it's already so stunning... Maybe the real questions the city council as well as the state should be asking is what about solar? There are many new office buildings around the world being built that are already "greener" than this. Yes, architect students will come to see it but it's not really an epitome of a green building.
Wow! Really? They shouldn't? They probably aren't going to break any laws building it (considering they have a pretty good track record with all the Apple Stores) other than the imaginary ones you are proposing... isn't California already a bit hostile to business?
well... it's an outrage I tell you... OUTRAGE! They should dedicate part of that land to wind turbines, wave machines, and geo-thermal, offer local co-op organic farming, dedicate some habitat for the rare Madagascar fractured moth mosquito, open a orphanage, give away have their profits to those less fortunate in the area, set aside 15% of the land for native Americans, make reparations to descendants of slavery, make sure that at least 22% of all R&D goes towards designing products that don't use any energy, minerals, metals, tree or dinosaur based products, chemicals or child or Asian labor. Perhaps they should convert the garage for all those cars to a public ice-skating rink, make everyone ride bikes to work and once they get to work, they walk on treadmills to generate power to run their Macs. And then at the end of the week, when they stop by the payroll window to pick up their weekly check, since they will obviously be in a higher tax bracket, then can (willingly) donate all that extra money they make (after 36% fed and 11% state, Medicare, FICA, and Healthcare), to help pay down the national debt because they probably stole every dime they ever made and need to pay their fair share.
Then again, maybe we can wait and see what Apple plans on doing on the who, what, when, where and whys of construction before we gather up the pitchforks and torches and storm their stores for being such a bad corporate citizen... unless you somehow gleaned their "green plans" by looking at artists renderings on a slide presentation from a youTube video at 360p. If you have such knowledge... please, share with the rest of the class.
Wow! Really? They shouldn't? They probably aren't going to break any laws building it (considering they have a pretty good track record with all the Apple Stores) other than the imaginary ones you are proposing... isn't California already a bit hostile to business?
well... it's an outrage I tell you... OUTRAGE! They should dedicate part of that land to wind turbines, wave machines, and geo-thermal, offer local co-op organic farming, dedicate some habitat for the rare Madagascar fractured moth mosquito, open a orphanage, give away have their profits to those less fortunate in the area, set aside 15% of the land for native Americans, make reparations to descendants of slavery, make sure that at least 22% of all R&D goes towards designing products that don't use any energy, minerals, metals, tree or dinosaur based products, chemicals or child or Asian labor. Perhaps they should convert the garage for all those cars to a public ice-skating rink, make everyone ride bikes to work and once they get to work, they walk on treadmills to generate power to run their Macs. And then at the end of the week, when they stop by the payroll window to pick up their weekly check, since they will obviously be in a higher tax bracket, then can (willingly) donate all that extra money they make (after 36% fed and 11% state, Medicare, FICA, and Healthcare), to help pay down the national debt because they probably stole every dime they ever made and need to pay their fair share.
Then again, maybe we can wait and see what Apple plans on doing on the who, what, when, where and whys of construction before we gather up the pitchforks and torches and storm their stores for being such a bad corporate citizen... unless you somehow gleaned their "green plans" by looking at artists renderings on a slide presentation from a youTube video at 360p. If you have such knowledge... please, share with the rest of the class.
That was quite a rave... I mean rant. Have a look through all 8 pages of this thread and then get back to us.
As for:
"Then again, maybe we can wait and see what Apple plans on doing on the who, what, when, where and whys of construction before we gather up the pitchforks and torches and storm their stores for being such a bad corporate citizen..."
That's pretty much what we've decided on this thread, we await more news eagerly. Nice strawman and hyperbole but I never said Apple was being a bad corporate citizen nor that the spaceship should be a hippie utopia. Nor did anyone say employees should be forced to contribute monetarily to anything, which is ridiculous. My angle was more towards what questions the city council should have asked instead of free wifi and free iPads (if the free iPads were for Cupertino schools or interesting pilot projects (with subsequent purchases borne by the institutions/city council) then it would have made some sense).
Then again you might have gleaned all this if you have actually read the whole thread.
The day after giving a keynote at the Worldwide Developers Conference, Apple CEO Steve Jobs presented the company's plans for a second campus in Cupertino, Calif., which would feature a round building that would hold 12,000 Apple employees, to the city council.
This building begs for a giant propeller in the middle.
Nope. Not kidding. Neither their sterile low-rise glass ring in the 'burbs nor their featureless glass facades in the midst of brick and granite neighborhoods strike me as good architecture.
Then that's just your taste.