No it is not. A managed and controlled built-in system is - similar to that available on the 777/787/A380/A350 et al. This sort of system:
* Doesn't depend on charging
* Cannot be dropped or damaged
* Is built from professional-grade parts
* Ergonomics are well-thought out
* The software and hardware are tuned to work together - so every aspect of performance is predictable and reliable
and most importantly
* Is managed and controlled. Every update and every parameter is stringintely monitored, tracked, tested and released according to best-practice methods.
You really don't seem to understand exactly what these are going to be used for.
I need to be able to take it with me at the end of the day. It can't be bolted to the airplane.
It's NOT a navigation device.... Just a chart/manual display device.
It's not a moving map display.... That functionality is built into the FMS and MFD's.
This is a way for me to carry around all the manuals and charts and other reference materials that I'm required to have.... Without lugging around 50 lbs of paper.
Easier to update than paper... And no missing pages.
It's not part of the airplane, it's an electronic replacement for paper manuals and charts. The testing you mention is not required... It only needs to be approved by the FAA (for each airlines ops-spec) to replace all the paper...
It's not replacing normal or emergency checklists, it's not a navigation device, there will be paper backups available.... Come visit us in the 21st century, please.
You really don't seem to understand exactly what these are going to be used for.
I need to be able to take it with me at the end of the day. It can't be bolted to the airplane.
It's NOT a navigation device.... Just a chart/manual display device.
It's not a moving map display.... That functionality is built into the FMS and MFD's.
This is a way for me to carry around all the manuals and charts and other reference materials that I'm required to have.... Without lugging around 50 lbs of paper.
Easier to update than paper... And no missing pages.
It's not part of the airplane, it's an electronic replacement for paper manuals and charts. The testing you mention is not required... It only needs to be approved by the FAA (for each airlines ops-spec) to replace all the paper...
It's not replacing normal or emergency checklists, it's not a navigation device, there will be paper backups available.... Come visit us in the 21st century, please.
Thank you King! It certainly seems like there is a lot of confusion and mis-understanding as to what exactly the iPad is going to be used for by the airlines. We've been using ship-sets at my airline for about two years now and it's so nice to not have to lug around 35+ pounds of paper, not to mention the hours of doing revisions for which we're not getting paid for.
What I find amazing is that just because the iPad was initially introduced as a consumer device the people think that that's all it is. The build quality and stability of it have done nothing but impress me!
Wow - so many responses now I come back. Interesting.
Still - I hold. Consumer, price-orientated stuff has no place in the cockpit. Again, I'm all for EFBs, etc, but now way am I for the use of consumer toys. They are quite simply not stable enough for life/death scenarios.
.
.
.
Stand back and look at this - these devices are unstable (and more importantly - uncontrolled [over-the-air updates, etc]), consumer tech. Most avionics systems are stringintely change-managed and written in Assembler. How can you effectively outsource something like that? Crazy stuff. Even if they were perfectly stable, there is no possible way you could baseline and sociability-test for every possible scenario.
And if paper stays in the cockpit then I don't see what the savings are about?
I don't think you really understand the design that goes into flight level software and electronics. You may be a pilot but you are not an engineer working on and designing these systems day in and day out. Yes, Level E can be used In Flight especially when the system has no access to the power or data networks. I seriously doubt this is a Level A-C system but is either Level D Level E. Probably Leve D. Either way, it is way down there and that has serious significance in this discussion.
Now, if you knew anything about the safety levels, something you don't seem to, much of your concerns might actually make sense:
Level D:
"Software whose anomalous behavior, as shown by the system safety assessment process, would cause or contribute to a failure of system function resulting in a minor failure condition for the aircraft."
Level E
"Software whose anomalous behavior, as shown by the system safety assessment process, would cause or contribute to a failure of system function with no effect on aircraft operational capability or pilot workload. Once software has been confirmed as level E by the certification authority, no further guidelines of this document apply."
You are treating this as Level A or B:
Level A
"Software whose anomalous behavior, as shown by the system safety assessment process, would cause or contribute to a failure of system function resulting in a catastrophic failure condition for the aircraft."
My guess is this is Level D. You don't need to do code coverage making the actual formal software testing much easier. That, and iOS will never get code coverage testing. This limits any iPad (or Android Tablet) to a Level D and lower safety level. You still have environmental testing and software testing. Configuration control would still apply. Strong Enterprise level management of iOS devices negates your "over-the-air" update concerns.
I don't think you really understand the design that goes into flight level software and electronics. You may be a pilot but you are not an engineer working on and designing these systems day in and day out. Yes, Level E can be used In Flight especially when the system has no access to the power or data networks. I seriously doubt this is a Level A-C system but is either Level D Level E. Probably Leve D. Either way, it is way down there and that has serious significance in this discussion.
Now, if you knew anything about the safety levels, something you don't seem to, much of your concerns might actually make sense:
Level D:
"Software whose anomalous behavior, as shown by the system safety assessment process, would cause or contribute to a failure of system function resulting in a minor failure condition for the aircraft."
Level E
"Software whose anomalous behavior, as shown by the system safety assessment process, would cause or contribute to a failure of system function with no effect on aircraft operational capability or pilot workload. Once software has been confirmed as level E by the certification authority, no further guidelines of this document apply."
You are treating this as Level A or B:
Level A
"Software whose anomalous behavior, as shown by the system safety assessment process, would cause or contribute to a failure of system function resulting in a catastrophic failure condition for the aircraft."
My guess is this is Level D. You don't need to do code coverage making the actual formal software testing much easier. That, and iOS will never get code coverage testing. This limits any iPad (or Android Tablet) to a Level D and lower safety level. You still have environmental testing and software testing. Configuration control would still apply. Strong Enterprise level management of iOS devices negates your "over-the-air" update concerns.
My my my, what a tangled web we weave! So much gobbledygook and and tech speech..
Listen people, this is the bottom line. The iPad won't be used for any safety critical tasks. No navigation, no aircraft monitoring, no moving map display, NONE of that!
It's simply replacing paper that is already in the cockpit. Paper that weighs a LOT, and has to be manually updated every two weeks; a task that can take one to two hours per set to update, and there are up to four sets on each long haul aircraft. It's a matter of dollars and cents! For the price, the iPad is giving airlines the best bang for the buck, simple as that!
You have no idea?! Fact is, consumer devices flake out. What you suggest makes a mockery of CRM. What do you fly? 707s? I fly A330s internationally - I'm used to everyONE and everyTHING doing exactly as it should, at exactly the right time.
I don't need the distraction of consumer electronics on the flight deck. I need predictable perfection!
Comments
Do you, or am I the only pilot here?
No it is not. A managed and controlled built-in system is - similar to that available on the 777/787/A380/A350 et al. This sort of system:
* Doesn't depend on charging
* Cannot be dropped or damaged
* Is built from professional-grade parts
* Ergonomics are well-thought out
* The software and hardware are tuned to work together - so every aspect of performance is predictable and reliable
and most importantly
* Is managed and controlled. Every update and every parameter is stringintely monitored, tracked, tested and released according to best-practice methods.
You really don't seem to understand exactly what these are going to be used for.
I need to be able to take it with me at the end of the day. It can't be bolted to the airplane.
It's NOT a navigation device.... Just a chart/manual display device.
It's not a moving map display.... That functionality is built into the FMS and MFD's.
This is a way for me to carry around all the manuals and charts and other reference materials that I'm required to have.... Without lugging around 50 lbs of paper.
Easier to update than paper... And no missing pages.
It's not part of the airplane, it's an electronic replacement for paper manuals and charts. The testing you mention is not required... It only needs to be approved by the FAA (for each airlines ops-spec) to replace all the paper...
It's not replacing normal or emergency checklists, it's not a navigation device, there will be paper backups available.... Come visit us in the 21st century, please.
You really don't seem to understand exactly what these are going to be used for.
I need to be able to take it with me at the end of the day. It can't be bolted to the airplane.
It's NOT a navigation device.... Just a chart/manual display device.
It's not a moving map display.... That functionality is built into the FMS and MFD's.
This is a way for me to carry around all the manuals and charts and other reference materials that I'm required to have.... Without lugging around 50 lbs of paper.
Easier to update than paper... And no missing pages.
It's not part of the airplane, it's an electronic replacement for paper manuals and charts. The testing you mention is not required... It only needs to be approved by the FAA (for each airlines ops-spec) to replace all the paper...
It's not replacing normal or emergency checklists, it's not a navigation device, there will be paper backups available.... Come visit us in the 21st century, please.
Thank you King! It certainly seems like there is a lot of confusion and mis-understanding as to what exactly the iPad is going to be used for by the airlines. We've been using ship-sets at my airline for about two years now and it's so nice to not have to lug around 35+ pounds of paper, not to mention the hours of doing revisions for which we're not getting paid for.
What I find amazing is that just because the iPad was initially introduced as a consumer device the people think that that's all it is. The build quality and stability of it have done nothing but impress me!
Wow - so many responses now I come back. Interesting.
Still - I hold. Consumer, price-orientated stuff has no place in the cockpit. Again, I'm all for EFBs, etc, but now way am I for the use of consumer toys. They are quite simply not stable enough for life/death scenarios.
.
.
.
Stand back and look at this - these devices are unstable (and more importantly - uncontrolled [over-the-air updates, etc]), consumer tech. Most avionics systems are stringintely change-managed and written in Assembler. How can you effectively outsource something like that? Crazy stuff. Even if they were perfectly stable, there is no possible way you could baseline and sociability-test for every possible scenario.
And if paper stays in the cockpit then I don't see what the savings are about?
I don't think you really understand the design that goes into flight level software and electronics. You may be a pilot but you are not an engineer working on and designing these systems day in and day out. Yes, Level E can be used In Flight especially when the system has no access to the power or data networks. I seriously doubt this is a Level A-C system but is either Level D Level E. Probably Leve D. Either way, it is way down there and that has serious significance in this discussion.
Now, if you knew anything about the safety levels, something you don't seem to, much of your concerns might actually make sense:
Level D:
"Software whose anomalous behavior, as shown by the system safety assessment process, would cause or contribute to a failure of system function resulting in a minor failure condition for the aircraft."
Level E
"Software whose anomalous behavior, as shown by the system safety assessment process, would cause or contribute to a failure of system function with no effect on aircraft operational capability or pilot workload. Once software has been confirmed as level E by the certification authority, no further guidelines of this document apply."
You are treating this as Level A or B:
Level A
"Software whose anomalous behavior, as shown by the system safety assessment process, would cause or contribute to a failure of system function resulting in a catastrophic failure condition for the aircraft."
My guess is this is Level D. You don't need to do code coverage making the actual formal software testing much easier. That, and iOS will never get code coverage testing. This limits any iPad (or Android Tablet) to a Level D and lower safety level. You still have environmental testing and software testing. Configuration control would still apply. Strong Enterprise level management of iOS devices negates your "over-the-air" update concerns.
I don't think you really understand the design that goes into flight level software and electronics. You may be a pilot but you are not an engineer working on and designing these systems day in and day out. Yes, Level E can be used In Flight especially when the system has no access to the power or data networks. I seriously doubt this is a Level A-C system but is either Level D Level E. Probably Leve D. Either way, it is way down there and that has serious significance in this discussion.
Now, if you knew anything about the safety levels, something you don't seem to, much of your concerns might actually make sense:
Level D:
"Software whose anomalous behavior, as shown by the system safety assessment process, would cause or contribute to a failure of system function resulting in a minor failure condition for the aircraft."
Level E
"Software whose anomalous behavior, as shown by the system safety assessment process, would cause or contribute to a failure of system function with no effect on aircraft operational capability or pilot workload. Once software has been confirmed as level E by the certification authority, no further guidelines of this document apply."
You are treating this as Level A or B:
Level A
"Software whose anomalous behavior, as shown by the system safety assessment process, would cause or contribute to a failure of system function resulting in a catastrophic failure condition for the aircraft."
My guess is this is Level D. You don't need to do code coverage making the actual formal software testing much easier. That, and iOS will never get code coverage testing. This limits any iPad (or Android Tablet) to a Level D and lower safety level. You still have environmental testing and software testing. Configuration control would still apply. Strong Enterprise level management of iOS devices negates your "over-the-air" update concerns.
My my my, what a tangled web we weave! So much gobbledygook and and tech speech..
Listen people, this is the bottom line. The iPad won't be used for any safety critical tasks. No navigation, no aircraft monitoring, no moving map display, NONE of that!
It's simply replacing paper that is already in the cockpit. Paper that weighs a LOT, and has to be manually updated every two weeks; a task that can take one to two hours per set to update, and there are up to four sets on each long haul aircraft. It's a matter of dollars and cents! For the price, the iPad is giving airlines the best bang for the buck, simple as that!
You have no idea?! Fact is, consumer devices flake out. What you suggest makes a mockery of CRM. What do you fly? 707s? I fly A330s internationally - I'm used to everyONE and everyTHING doing exactly as it should, at exactly the right time.
I don't need the distraction of consumer electronics on the flight deck. I need predictable perfection!
except the speed controllers
except the speed controllers
I need to stop reading posts like this one while drinking my morning coffee! Well, trying to drink is more like it duh