New plant in Brazil going online will set the path for the into of Ipad 3, but more importantly .....hopefully the quality control and manufacturing process will be better than in China.
An uncharacteristically snarky comment from you today, Bushman, especially when you yourself know it has zero foundation to support it. What's your real problem? Inquiring minds want to know.
New plant in Brazil going online will set the path for the into of Ipad 3, but more importantly .....hopefully the quality control and manufacturing process will be better than in China.
My guess is that Apple will have a uniform level of quality control for its component suppliers and manufacturing partners, regardless of country of origin. Those who do not meet those expectations will lose Apple's business.
It is unlikely that Apple would like the quality from one manufacturing line be significant different from those coming off another production line.
Remember, Tim Cook runs Apple's daily operations. He's not going to indulge slackers.
Mercadante expects a locally produced iPad to be 40 percent cheaper for consumers than the imported version. Brazil has steep import tariffs that can as much as double the cost of consumer electronics.
If we had steep import tariffs would Apple hire Americans to build their stuff? Is that really the answer?
New plant in Brazil going online will set the path for the into of Ipad 3, but more importantly .....hopefully the quality control and manufacturing process will be better than in China.
From the Article:
"a shortage of skilled labor contributed to the delays. Foxconn, which serves as one of Apple's main manufacturing partners, has hired 175 engineers and sent them to China for training, but more than 200 engineers are needed for the plant."
Maybe the factories already exist, and need not be created from scratch? Maybe they already have buildings and dorms and parking lots and machine tools and skilled workers and loading bays and trucks and trains and ports and cargo ships and distribution channels and everything already set up?
Instead of hacking a new factory out of malaria-infested swamps? Dunno. Doesn't seem that the two situations are even remotely comparable.
And now instead of having a few million iPads manufactured every quarter we'll have a brazilian of them!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scafe2
Brazilian of them.,, yes I get it, very good
Hah! This will bring a whole new meaning to when your girlfriend or gay (or straight) friend says, "I'm off to get my Brazilian". You'll have to ask, "Is that at the Apple Store or the Spa?"
It's complicated. Nobody serious has ever denied that tariffs can result in improved employment within a single industry, the argument is that they damage the country as a whole. So yes, Brazil is winning a Foxxconn plant but how many iOS developers never got started due to the lack of access to devices?
Let me tell you the story of Malaysia. One of our most protected industries is automobile manufacturing. This is why a KIA Forte and Honda City starts at USD $25,000 with Honda Accords, Civics at over USD $30,000 and of course BMW 3 series starting from the USD $50,000 mark (it starts from USD $30,000 in the US). Remember this is in a country where USD $12,000 a year is considered a decent middle-income salary.
The idea was to protect the national car industry as it started out in the 80's. The price protection/tariffs/whatever are still there 30 years later. Pop quiz: have any of you heard of a Saga, Persona, Kancil, Viva or Myvi from our two main manufacturers, Proton and Perodua? No? That's because they're nothing short of laughable, especially for the local price of USD $10,000 to over $20,000 for them. They are exported to some countries and Proton had a good run for a while in the UK but in this decade I doubt they'll be able to compete globally with Chinese, Indian and of course Japanese manufacturers.
So what do Malaysians get out of this? Nothing. A barely surviving domestic automobile industry churning out borderline crap which you are forced to buy since it's the only thing that's available, ludicrously expensive Japanese and European and even Chinese cars, and almost zero foothold in the global automotive market. Oh, Proton owns (and has sunk billions) into the fancy schmancy Lotus Group, for what reason I have no clue. Lotus has indicated they want to tie up with Toyota now and break free from Proton.
I'm really not sure how we still manufacture a ton of AMD and Intel CPUs, but if that ever dries up that will be a big chunk of manufacturing gone from the country.
In 2013 following alien visitation we will have the technology to manufacture things that manufacture things. In 2015 iPad "baby showers" will become commonplace when your old iDevice manufactures a new iPad for you. In 2035 all self-replicating devices will become self-aware and wipe out the human race.
Maybe the factories already exist, and need not be created from scratch? Maybe they already have buildings and dorms and parking lots and machine tools and skilled workers and loading bays and trucks and trains and ports and cargo ships and distribution channels and everything already set up?
Instead of hacking a new factory out of malaria-infested swamps? Dunno. Doesn't seem that the two situations are even remotely comparable.
Brazil, according to '60 Minutes' on TV, has a better Economy than the US. In world rankings for the coming years, they rank second after China, followed by South Korea, then the US (if at all).
They make and sell jet planes and will be the site of the next World Olympics. It's also the Plastic Surgery capital of the world and produces more Ms. Universe winners year after year. If they can build an iPad like Gisele Bundchen, I'll be taking one to bed.
I truly hope that the iPad becomes an education staple for schools around the world. I sure wished technology like that was available when I was going to school some 50 years ago. Being able to pack dozens of eBooks/eTextbooks into a handheld device that size is just amazing. Some say the cost of an iPad is too high, but when it comes to education it surely must be worth the cost.
It's not that simple. Let's take New York City. There are 1.1 million students in the public school system. At $500 each, that's a $550 million investment. But it's really much more because some of those Pads would get stolen or broken (my guess would be 20% per year). You would then need a support team, probably at least one resource per school. And then you would need additional iPads each year for the new students (unless you're not going to let the kids keep them.) And then there's the issue of security. If the kids walked around with them, they would be targets for muggers, etc.
Furthermore, it only becomes an educational device if the kids actually read the textbooks and ebooks that are on the device. And what is more likely is that the kids would download a bunch of free games and the like and spend all their time doing that, tweeting, etc.
Also, for younger kids, putting pen/pencil to paper is an important cognitive skill that leads to brain development in ways that typing on a keyboard does not.
So, in essence, you're spending upwards of $600 million so that the kids don't have to carry paper, which actually, most never do anyway. I see even high school kids coming off the subway and most usually don't even carry a notebook (and no, they don't have lockers at school).
I think the mantra that technology improves education is a canard. Math and reading scores have been dropping across the country for years in spite of technology. One might make the case that technology actually hurts literacy because with all the time spent on a computer or smartphone doing trivial tasks (like browsing, tweeting, playing games, listening to bad music, etc.), kids are not reading, writing, studying history or doing any mathematics.
Brazil, according to '60 Minutes' on TV, has a better Economy than the US. In world rankings for the coming years, they rank second after China, followed by South Korea, then the US (if at all).
They make and sell jet planes and will be the site of the next World Olympics. It's also the Plastic Surgery capital of the world and produces more Ms. Universe winners year after year. If they can build an iPad like Gisele Bundchen, I'll be taking one to bed.
Brazil's overall economy is irrelevant. Foxconn is starting from scratch in Brazil, rather than utilizing existing factories. Therefore, no reliable conclusions about worldwide tablet manufacturing capacity can be drawn from the time necessary for Foxconn to build a new factory from scratch in Brazil.
I tend to think that people will get my point without my having to set it forth in belabored detail. Sorry. I forgot.
Brazil, according to '60 Minutes' on TV, has a better Economy than the US. In world rankings for the coming years, they rank second after China, followed by South Korea, then the US (if at all).
Erm - no, just no. Maybe in 50 years, barely possibly in 20 years, but right now or in the near term - no.
Brazil operates with a cowardly protectionist policy and an overvalued currency. When the city of Rio De Janeiro asked Steve Jobs to open up the first Apple retail store in that country in time for the 2020 Olympics, Jobs refused.
Brazil operates with a cowardly protectionist policy and an overvalued currency. When the city of Rio De Janeiro asked Steve Jobs to open up the first Apple retail store in that country in time for the 2020 Olympics, Jobs refused.
Erm, it's not clear but from the way you phrase that it seems like you think that the overvalued currency is something the Brazilians want. You realize from an import/export perspective an overvalued currency is a bad thing right? Hence why China is careful to maintain an undervalued currency and why Brazil is threatening capital controls.
It's complicated. Nobody serious has ever denied that tariffs can result in improved employment within a single industry, the argument is that they damage the country as a whole. So yes, Brazil is winning a Foxxconn plant but how many iOS developers never got started due to the lack of access to devices?
They could just develop for the iPad simulator on any mac. I think this case is an outlier because there is no other tablet maker at the time with any significant piece of the market other than apple.
Professor pointed out the dead weight created by the tariff, but that was in affect only while apple was a "foreign company". Now the tariff is simply keeping apple in the country. But it will hurt android makers as they try to sell in Brazil later on when they gain traction. But maybe they too will move to brazil, once again becoming a benefit.
I think it's similar to china forcing all foreign firms to become 49% partners with a chinese firm to sell in china. Because of the population they get all the benefits (technology and info tranfer, employment etc) without losing any foreign firms to this barrier.
Brazil operates with a cowardly protectionist policy ....
Nothing personal, but I find it interesting how calls for "Made in America" policies (which are numerous and never-ending), are patriotic but any other country doing the same thing is 'cowardly protectionism."
I'm not trying to put words in your mouth here because I don't actually know if you are an American or a protectionist, but from what I hear even on this forum, it seems that the average American basically thinks that everything should be made in America and that the government should implement policies to enforce or support this.
"Free Trade" in the USA is really just another term for "drop the protectionist barriers that keep us out of your country so we can dominate you." It's rarely practiced in reverse or even called for.
The perfect example is the Canadian soft-wood lumber industry. When 'Free Trade' with Canada was implemented, our industry started to decimate yours, so despite 'Free Trade' the US immediately put tarifs on our stuff so that your home grown industry wouldn't be blown out of the water. It wasn't fair, it wasn't "free" and it wasn't a very nice thing to do to a fellow country (a lot of people were put out of work and entire towns failed), but it happened instantly and most Americans supported it to judge by the news reports.
What Brazil is doing here is very similar to what the USA does in similar situations.
Comments
It's impressive how Apple keeps churning them out.
New plant in Brazil going online will set the path for the into of Ipad 3, but more importantly .....hopefully the quality control and manufacturing process will be better than in China.
An uncharacteristically snarky comment from you today, Bushman, especially when you yourself know it has zero foundation to support it. What's your real problem? Inquiring minds want to know.
New plant in Brazil going online will set the path for the into of Ipad 3, but more importantly .....hopefully the quality control and manufacturing process will be better than in China.
My guess is that Apple will have a uniform level of quality control for its component suppliers and manufacturing partners, regardless of country of origin. Those who do not meet those expectations will lose Apple's business.
It is unlikely that Apple would like the quality from one manufacturing line be significant different from those coming off another production line.
Remember, Tim Cook runs Apple's daily operations. He's not going to indulge slackers.
Mercadante expects a locally produced iPad to be 40 percent cheaper for consumers than the imported version. Brazil has steep import tariffs that can as much as double the cost of consumer electronics.
If we had steep import tariffs would Apple hire Americans to build their stuff? Is that really the answer?
New plant in Brazil going online will set the path for the into of Ipad 3, but more importantly .....hopefully the quality control and manufacturing process will be better than in China.
From the Article:
"a shortage of skilled labor contributed to the delays. Foxconn, which serves as one of Apple's main manufacturing partners, has hired 175 engineers and sent them to China for training, but more than 200 engineers are needed for the plant."
So far, not so good...
So a new Brazilian factory needs 3 to 4 years to ramp up to 6 million iPads per year. How then can the world ramp up to producing 200 million tablets by 2015 (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles..._future.html)? That's just inconceivable: http://bit.ly/m2maPF
Maybe the factories already exist, and need not be created from scratch? Maybe they already have buildings and dorms and parking lots and machine tools and skilled workers and loading bays and trucks and trains and ports and cargo ships and distribution channels and everything already set up?
Instead of hacking a new factory out of malaria-infested swamps? Dunno. Doesn't seem that the two situations are even remotely comparable.
And now instead of having a few million iPads manufactured every quarter we'll have a brazilian of them!!
Brazilian of them.,, yes I get it, very good
Hah! This will bring a whole new meaning to when your girlfriend or gay (or straight) friend says, "I'm off to get my Brazilian". You'll have to ask, "Is that at the Apple Store or the Spa?"
It's complicated. Nobody serious has ever denied that tariffs can result in improved employment within a single industry, the argument is that they damage the country as a whole. So yes, Brazil is winning a Foxxconn plant but how many iOS developers never got started due to the lack of access to devices?
Let me tell you the story of Malaysia. One of our most protected industries is automobile manufacturing. This is why a KIA Forte and Honda City starts at USD $25,000 with Honda Accords, Civics at over USD $30,000 and of course BMW 3 series starting from the USD $50,000 mark (it starts from USD $30,000 in the US). Remember this is in a country where USD $12,000 a year is considered a decent middle-income salary.
The idea was to protect the national car industry as it started out in the 80's. The price protection/tariffs/whatever are still there 30 years later. Pop quiz: have any of you heard of a Saga, Persona, Kancil, Viva or Myvi from our two main manufacturers, Proton and Perodua? No? That's because they're nothing short of laughable, especially for the local price of USD $10,000 to over $20,000 for them. They are exported to some countries and Proton had a good run for a while in the UK but in this decade I doubt they'll be able to compete globally with Chinese, Indian and of course Japanese manufacturers.
So what do Malaysians get out of this? Nothing. A barely surviving domestic automobile industry churning out borderline crap which you are forced to buy since it's the only thing that's available, ludicrously expensive Japanese and European and even Chinese cars, and almost zero foothold in the global automotive market. Oh, Proton owns (and has sunk billions) into the fancy schmancy Lotus Group, for what reason I have no clue. Lotus has indicated they want to tie up with Toyota now and break free from Proton.
I'm really not sure how we still manufacture a ton of AMD and Intel CPUs, but if that ever dries up that will be a big chunk of manufacturing gone from the country.
So a new Brazilian factory needs 3 to 4 years to ramp up to 6 million iPads per year. How then can the world ramp up to producing 200 million tablets by 2015 (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles..._future.html)? That's just inconceivable: http://bit.ly/m2maPF
In 2013 following alien visitation we will have the technology to manufacture things that manufacture things. In 2015 iPad "baby showers" will become commonplace when your old iDevice manufactures a new iPad for you. In 2035 all self-replicating devices will become self-aware and wipe out the human race.
Maybe the factories already exist, and need not be created from scratch? Maybe they already have buildings and dorms and parking lots and machine tools and skilled workers and loading bays and trucks and trains and ports and cargo ships and distribution channels and everything already set up?
Instead of hacking a new factory out of malaria-infested swamps? Dunno. Doesn't seem that the two situations are even remotely comparable.
Brazil, according to '60 Minutes' on TV, has a better Economy than the US. In world rankings for the coming years, they rank second after China, followed by South Korea, then the US (if at all).
They make and sell jet planes and will be the site of the next World Olympics. It's also the Plastic Surgery capital of the world and produces more Ms. Universe winners year after year. If they can build an iPad like Gisele Bundchen, I'll be taking one to bed.
So a new Brazilian factory needs 3 to 4 years to ramp up to 6 million iPads per year. How then can the world ramp up to producing 200 million tablets by 2015 (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles..._future.html)? That's just inconceivable: http://bit.ly/m2maPF
I don't think the idea is to produce 200 million in one year ... maybe 50 million per year ... the 200 million will be the total of users.
I truly hope that the iPad becomes an education staple for schools around the world. I sure wished technology like that was available when I was going to school some 50 years ago. Being able to pack dozens of eBooks/eTextbooks into a handheld device that size is just amazing. Some say the cost of an iPad is too high, but when it comes to education it surely must be worth the cost.
It's not that simple. Let's take New York City. There are 1.1 million students in the public school system. At $500 each, that's a $550 million investment. But it's really much more because some of those Pads would get stolen or broken (my guess would be 20% per year). You would then need a support team, probably at least one resource per school. And then you would need additional iPads each year for the new students (unless you're not going to let the kids keep them.) And then there's the issue of security. If the kids walked around with them, they would be targets for muggers, etc.
Furthermore, it only becomes an educational device if the kids actually read the textbooks and ebooks that are on the device. And what is more likely is that the kids would download a bunch of free games and the like and spend all their time doing that, tweeting, etc.
Also, for younger kids, putting pen/pencil to paper is an important cognitive skill that leads to brain development in ways that typing on a keyboard does not.
So, in essence, you're spending upwards of $600 million so that the kids don't have to carry paper, which actually, most never do anyway. I see even high school kids coming off the subway and most usually don't even carry a notebook (and no, they don't have lockers at school).
I think the mantra that technology improves education is a canard. Math and reading scores have been dropping across the country for years in spite of technology. One might make the case that technology actually hurts literacy because with all the time spent on a computer or smartphone doing trivial tasks (like browsing, tweeting, playing games, listening to bad music, etc.), kids are not reading, writing, studying history or doing any mathematics.
Brazil, according to '60 Minutes' on TV, has a better Economy than the US. In world rankings for the coming years, they rank second after China, followed by South Korea, then the US (if at all).
They make and sell jet planes and will be the site of the next World Olympics. It's also the Plastic Surgery capital of the world and produces more Ms. Universe winners year after year. If they can build an iPad like Gisele Bundchen, I'll be taking one to bed.
Brazil's overall economy is irrelevant. Foxconn is starting from scratch in Brazil, rather than utilizing existing factories. Therefore, no reliable conclusions about worldwide tablet manufacturing capacity can be drawn from the time necessary for Foxconn to build a new factory from scratch in Brazil.
I tend to think that people will get my point without my having to set it forth in belabored detail. Sorry. I forgot.
Brazil, according to '60 Minutes' on TV, has a better Economy than the US. In world rankings for the coming years, they rank second after China, followed by South Korea, then the US (if at all).
Erm - no, just no. Maybe in 50 years, barely possibly in 20 years, but right now or in the near term - no.
Consider median household income at PPP: Brazil isn't even on the list, because it's lower than Mexico
What about total GDP (at PPP) -well that's better, then they're just below the UK at number 8, but not even close to the US or China.
Peter Coyote is a good choice for the voice in the ad.
Apple has class!
Steve B. will pick Fran Drescher for the voice over in the Windows 8 tablet ad.
I am waiting for a Brazilian iPad, it is sexier.
To clean it you just apply wax and peel it off...
Brazil operates with a cowardly protectionist policy and an overvalued currency. When the city of Rio De Janeiro asked Steve Jobs to open up the first Apple retail store in that country in time for the 2020 Olympics, Jobs refused.
Erm, it's not clear but from the way you phrase that it seems like you think that the overvalued currency is something the Brazilians want. You realize from an import/export perspective an overvalued currency is a bad thing right? Hence why China is careful to maintain an undervalued currency and why Brazil is threatening capital controls.
If I have misunderstood your gist then apologies.
It's complicated. Nobody serious has ever denied that tariffs can result in improved employment within a single industry, the argument is that they damage the country as a whole. So yes, Brazil is winning a Foxxconn plant but how many iOS developers never got started due to the lack of access to devices?
They could just develop for the iPad simulator on any mac. I think this case is an outlier because there is no other tablet maker at the time with any significant piece of the market other than apple.
Professor pointed out the dead weight created by the tariff, but that was in affect only while apple was a "foreign company". Now the tariff is simply keeping apple in the country. But it will hurt android makers as they try to sell in Brazil later on when they gain traction. But maybe they too will move to brazil, once again becoming a benefit.
I think it's similar to china forcing all foreign firms to become 49% partners with a chinese firm to sell in china. Because of the population they get all the benefits (technology and info tranfer, employment etc) without losing any foreign firms to this barrier.
Brazil operates with a cowardly protectionist policy ....
Nothing personal, but I find it interesting how calls for "Made in America" policies (which are numerous and never-ending), are patriotic but any other country doing the same thing is 'cowardly protectionism."
I'm not trying to put words in your mouth here because I don't actually know if you are an American or a protectionist, but from what I hear even on this forum, it seems that the average American basically thinks that everything should be made in America and that the government should implement policies to enforce or support this.
"Free Trade" in the USA is really just another term for "drop the protectionist barriers that keep us out of your country so we can dominate you." It's rarely practiced in reverse or even called for.
The perfect example is the Canadian soft-wood lumber industry. When 'Free Trade' with Canada was implemented, our industry started to decimate yours, so despite 'Free Trade' the US immediately put tarifs on our stuff so that your home grown industry wouldn't be blown out of the water. It wasn't fair, it wasn't "free" and it wasn't a very nice thing to do to a fellow country (a lot of people were put out of work and entire towns failed), but it happened instantly and most Americans supported it to judge by the news reports.
What Brazil is doing here is very similar to what the USA does in similar situations.