Final Cut Pro X draws mixed reactions from users, professionals

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  • Reply 81 of 248
    jlanddjlandd Posts: 873member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gustav View Post


    Every time a pro app is within the range of amateurs, you get complaining. Many pros are afraid that their customers will go to the amateurs, forgetting it's their talent, not the tools, that provide the pro level results.



    Not the case here by a long shot. Do you even know what an EDL is much less ever used one?



    Read up and come back.
  • Reply 82 of 248
    cory bauercory bauer Posts: 1,286member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post


    I wonder how many of those reviewers have spent ANY time with the software? This is why I don't trust web-based reviews at all. You constantly see tons of reviews for products or content that haven't even been released yet. This obviously has been released, but when a product has been rewritten and redefined from scratch, you've got to spend more than ten minutes with it to know what it really is. Could anyone write a fair review of a new version of Photoshop after only one day of use? Only if they used only the most basic functions.



    First of all, it is not possible to write a review on the Mac App store if you have not purchased the application. Secondly, if a program can't do basic functionality like open its own documents or output its content, whether you spend one hour or one year with the program isn't going to make it any more usable. I've seen this "people just need to use it more" defense several times now, and its rubbish.
  • Reply 83 of 248
    As an Apple "fan-boy" (admittedly), I must also chime-in that this FCPX app is a RADICAL step backwards for FCP.



    I have been using FCP since... well... I think when it first came out. I am NOT a video "Pro", but rather a weekend enthusiast who has grown to love the power of FCP. Yes, I HAVE "made money" with FCP as a designer, but I am FAR from a video pro.



    I was in FCPX for a couple hours last night and I am AMAZED at the most BASIC omissions from this app. My ASSUMPTION was that this was an evolution of FCP... but it's not... not at ALL. Something as simple as applying a very basic DROP SHADOW to a graphic element in the timeline. *IF* the ability to add a DrpShdw DOES exist, it is masterfully hidden from users. That is creative 101 for ANY app nowadays... that should have been implemented by a junior developer in about 35 minutes.



    That's just ONE of the many simple things I couldn't "find".

    For those of you who are HAPPY with FCPX... good for you... but you cannot ignore that this release *IS* a fractional subset of functionality that users have grown to expect from this application. It is truly stripped-down and almost crippled.



    I do NOT agree that this is being marketed as a Version 1.0 app... it is X (10)... they need to be BETTER communicators regarding feature drop-off.



    I am very glad I can still go back to my previous version - I kinda feel duped. You can defend it all you want, but it REALLY IS iMove with a "pro app" theme applied and more functionality than iMovie. I hope they don't pull this crap with Logic too.
  • Reply 84 of 248
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    The lack of Multicam is a pretty clear indication that it was rushed out the door. As big as Apple is in to music, one would think that making music videos would be very high on the list of features/capabilities.
  • Reply 85 of 248
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    The lack of Multicam is a pretty clear indication that it was rushed out the door. As big as Apple is in to music, one would think that making music videos would be very high on the list of features/capabilities.



    Great! That's not in there either...? I use that a LOT for when I edit live-band footage that was shot from multiple sources.



    Seriously... I can see why it's only $300... but even THAT seems high considering at all that's been left out.
  • Reply 86 of 248
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post


    At NAB, the editors there seemed "blown away" by what they saw, but those were probably mostly TV editors, not movie editors.



    ...this is still an amazing deal for $300.



    The NAB editors got shown the (very nice) new features, there was no reason to think that they weren't simply adding great new features to a huge and fully fledged professional application.



    What Apple did not show was the enormous amount of essential stuff they left out.



    It is a great deal for $300 if you're an iMovie user sure.

    But I would rather spend $1000 and have a usable product.
  • Reply 87 of 248
    jlanddjlandd Posts: 873member
    The best that can come out of this is that it becomes Apple's "New Coke". They bring back discontinued Coke Classic and everyone hugs.
  • Reply 88 of 248
    swiftswift Posts: 436member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by quamb View Post


    Mixed reactions??? It is completely unusable for many "professionals" - I'm dumbfounded why basic functionality such as omf/xml compatibility has been pulled. It's a slap in the face, perhaps a wake up call that Apple have simply moved on to wallmart grazing prosumer market.



    It hasn't been "pulled." This is a complete recoding of the software. It has been built up from the bottom. So, what do you put in first? The basic features, the things that will make this a hit with prosumers right away. The features that you complain about haven't been in this code base before. They will arrive.



    Meanwhile, you still have Final Cut Pro 7 to use as long as you want. I'm betting at the end of a year, as this code evolves, you will not be going back very much to the old beast. In two years, 7 will be stuck on a few machines for the traditionalists.
  • Reply 89 of 248
    swiftswift Posts: 436member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jlandd View Post


    The best that can come out of this is that it becomes Apple's "New Coke". They bring back discontinued Coke Classic and everyone hugs.



    What? You think Apple is run by people who just want to make colored sugar water?



    Final Cut Pro 7 does not go away when you install X. It still works. I'm thinking it won't be long until the hullaballoo dies down and pros get embarrassed.



    Funny thing is, the old iMovie users were outraged two years ago. They aren't now.
  • Reply 90 of 248
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Swift View Post




    Final Cut Pro 7 does not go away when you install X. It still works. I'm thinking it won't be long until the hullaballoo dies down and pros get embarrassed.



    Funny thing is, the old iMovie users were outraged two years ago. They aren't now.



    And what did Apple do about the enraged iMovie users? They made HD available again until they got enough features into the new version. Unfortunately they won't do that with FCS. It is the over powering desire to have all software sold only through the App Store that prompted them to remove FCS. The total integration of everything into iCloud/App Store has forced them to make difficult decisions. The diversity that once existed between pros and non-pros is gone and now must assimilate to some middle ground in order to fit into the new ecosystem.
  • Reply 91 of 248
    jlanddjlandd Posts: 873member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Swift View Post


    What? You think Apple is run by people who just want to make colored sugar water?



    Final Cut Pro 7 does not go away when you install X. It still works. I'm thinking it won't be long until the hullaballoo dies down and pros get embarrassed.



    The fact that FCP7 hasn't disappeared is obvious. The fact that it is no longer offered as a product is also.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Swift View Post


    Funny thing is, the old iMovie users were outraged two years ago. They aren't now.



    You don't go to the Apple iMovie Discussions much, I take it : )



    Plus, why would you be hearing complaints from people who have happily abandoned it for other tools, including older versions and the rereleased HD?
  • Reply 92 of 248
    For those of you defending this release due to it being a "rewrite/recode"... you are being far-too lenient. (IMHO)



    If Apple's focus was to rearchitect the core subsystem to build on, that's GREAT - but KEEP BUILDING and push the release out until it AT LEAST matches the current functionality of FCP7.



    Take a moment (please).. clear your mind... browse this thread again and OTHERS all over the web and look at ALL the MASSIVE AMOUNT of both basic and complex features that are missing. There is nothing "PRO" about this Final Cut "Pro" offering. It's a slick new UI built on a new (supposedly) code-base. But just because you can do some basic edits, this is FAR from the FCP7 we all know.



    We're not talking about trivial things they left-out... we're talking NECESSARY, core features... and some pretty STANDARD features that you can do in iMovie that you cannot do in FCPX. This was released WAY WAY WAAAAYYYYY too early and I wish it had even 3/4 the features FCP7 had. This really DOES feel like running the OSX Beta back in 2000... sure, it runs... kinda... but you can't really do anything with it.



    BTW - Mine crashed at LEAST 7-8 times within the 2-3 hours I was using it.

    Not a great start.
  • Reply 93 of 248
    Also...

    To mirror what others have noted...



    Apple's sneak preview of this FCPX a while back that got some GREAT cheers from the crowd...? I am sure it was because it was all based on the assumption that the new changes were built ON TOP OF all of the existing features.



    I guarantee that crowd had NO IDEA what was NOT going to be in-the-app.
  • Reply 94 of 248
    jonamacjonamac Posts: 384member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jlandd View Post


    Jonamac, but it is your last comment that sums up why the smart money isn't assuming the missing features will show up in a month. Aperture is the program I spend every day in front of professionally, and while I stuck with it when it was too slow and had no localized editing, many of my peers did not. I would certainly not characterize them as "looking silly" when the program finally matured as if by magic one day without warning, um, four years later.



    Fair point, but to be fair to Aperture, it wasn't 4 years that the competition had localised editing when Aperture 2 did not was it?



    How do you find Aperture 3? I love it but find it very unstable.
  • Reply 95 of 248
    dacloodacloo Posts: 890member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lightwaver67 View Post


    BTW - Mine crashed at LEAST 7-8 times within the 2-3 hours I was using it.

    Not a great start.



    Yup, here as well. If there's one main thing against FPCX, it's the fact it crashed often.
  • Reply 96 of 248
    Aperture and FCP are two different beasts...



    I can forgive Aperture's lack of features (initially) because it WAS starting from no-other previous version. It had to start somewhere. And yes, it has gotten pretty good over time... but I'd be JUST as pissed if they released Aperture X and it lost 1/2 of the functionality and couldn't import all my previous libraries w/ edits.
  • Reply 97 of 248
    boeyc15boeyc15 Posts: 986member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lightwaver67 View Post


    For those of you defending this release due to it being a "rewrite/recode"... you are being far-too lenient. (IMHO)



    If Apple's focus was to rearchitect the core subsystem to build on, that's GREAT - but KEEP BUILDING and push the release out until it AT LEAST matches the current functionality of FCP7.



    Take a moment (please).. clear your mind... browse this thread again and OTHERS all over the web and look at ALL the MASSIVE AMOUNT of both basic and complex features that are missing. There is nothing "PRO" about this Final Cut "Pro" offering. It's a slick new UI built on a new (supposedly) code-base. But just because you can do some basic edits, this is FAR from the FCP7 we all know.



    We're not talking about trivial things they left-out... we're talking NECESSARY, core features... and some pretty STANDARD features that you can do in iMovie that you cannot do in FCPX. This was released WAY WAY WAAAAYYYYY too early and I wish it had even 3/4 the features FCP7 had. This really DOES feel like running the OSX Beta back in 2000... sure, it runs... kinda... but you can't really do anything with it.



    BTW - Mine crashed at LEAST 7-8 times within the 2-3 hours I was using it.

    Not a great start.



    Im not an editor at all...so... just my opinion.... but have been reading with interest the blogs reviews etc. Have to say... it does appear that Apple left out of initial release half dozen or so 'basic' high level pro(read tv, movies etc)items. Now is that to say all or even most pro editors...no. But to the 'high profile' editors....yes. If a few of the basic itemsthese guys need (multi camera edit, sound export, export xml, tape import export(sad they still use tape)... to name a few), were included... I get the feeling most grumbling would be at a minimum.
  • Reply 98 of 248
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by boeyc15 View Post


    Im not an editor at all...so... just my opinion.... but have been reading with interest the blogs reviews etc. Have to say... it does appear that Apple left out of initial release half dozen or so 'basic' high level pro(read tv, movies etc)items. Now is that to say all or even most pro editors...no. But to the 'high profile' editors....yes. If a few of the basic itemsthese guys need (multi camera edit, sound export, export xml, tape import export(sad they still use tape)... to name a few), were included... I get the feeling most grumbling would be at a minimum.



    Maybe... dunno...

    Quite honestly, I wasn't in it long enough to know what ELSE isn't there.

    I mean, I seriously cannot believe I could not add a simple DROP SHADOW to a graphic element I added as an overlay. IT'S NOT IN THERE! That's BASIC stuff! I had to go back into Photoshop and ADD the drop shadow and reimport the graphic. That is rediculous. Again - that is BEYOND basic.



    I love Apple most of the time, but this release stinks to high-heaven.
  • Reply 99 of 248
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by backtomac View Post


    Aperture and and Logic Pro users.. be afraid, be very very afraid.



    Since I've learnt Logic it is by far my favourite music-making app out there. If it is molested to become iGarageBandXProDeluxeWithCandyOnTop ... well, there are a lot of alternative sequencers and DAWs, at least for dance music (progressive, house, trance).



    I sympathise nonetheless with those that may be affected by the FCPX situation if it happens to Logic.



    But music and DAW, whether home or studio-based, small or big-budget, has a slightly different "timeline" for software upgrades. Again, I use the example of electronica, if you're into other genres maybe you can advise... For example, in electronica most of the "progress" and "cutting edge" is in software plugins, outboard hardware (sometimes) and a lot of the time for best results remixing and mastering needs to be done in realtively expensive studios... studios that may still be running Logic 7 or ProTools or whatever.



    A R Rahman (Slumdog Millionaire) is pretty keen on Logic, I wonder if he's using Logic 9 or still on Logic 8.



    I'm just a "hobbyist". I've seen enough people struggle with trying to be producers and DJs, I'll skip the pain, thanks. (Or maybe I'm just getting old and losing sight of my dreams. Probably not, it's just been replaced with other less trendy dreams like financial and emotional sustainability).



    Anyways, for music and audio, beginner to umpteen-channel super certified surround 3D sound or whatever, there must be companies out there (you know who they are) watching this and hoping Apple will do this to Logic.



    But that is a story for another day...
  • Reply 100 of 248
    thepixeldocthepixeldoc Posts: 2,257member
    Hmmm.



    I just came back and read some more of this most interesting thread, and would like to apologize to the "pros" out there. You're right. Apple has went to far.



    The kicker for me was reading that you have to have all of your files on the system disk. As a pro in print production, this is a definite no-go for me in my work. My collection of servers and TB Firewire drives for print and photo work is astounding, so I can only imagine the TB's that film pros have offline. The first thing I recommend to all of my clients is to move everything out of the documents and home folders, and set up a second disk, that's cloned, RAID, whatever. Best pro practice as far as I'm concerned, is to ALWAYS separate the operating system and apps, from actual data.



    It does appear that Apple is leaving us pro users, in all aspects of it's future business model, and focusing on the consumer.



    Lion. iOS. Xserve canceled. There's even been rumors that there won't be any MacPro after the upcoming next release.



    Sad that the pros that kept Apple afloat, and tooted the Apple Horn for them in the past, will be shunted for the mass attack that iOS has become. Capitalism at work I suppose, as with everything else. Go to where the money is.



    PS. The post that likened FCPX's missing features to Adobe making only JPEGs editable.... PLEASE DO NOT GIVE THEM ANY IDEAS!!!!! I wouldn't put it past them.
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