How to Make Friends and Influence People (US Style)

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
<a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/radio4/today/listen/audiosearch.pl?ProgID=1044956954"; target="_blank">Have you heard this?</a>



This a US congressman interviewed on the BBC where he spouts unbelievable racist crap about Europe. The interviewer clearly can't believe what he's hearing. It would be funny if it weren't frightening. No way for a government to behave.



What's interesting is that this sort of bullshit, which seems to sum up how the US administration thinks about any nation that won't do what it's told, goes unremarked these days.



WANKER.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 36
    costiquecostique Posts: 1,084member
    When I see Bush spread his arm before a crowd, he reminds me of Hitler.
    • The same emperial ambitions when he shows readiness to conquer the whole world.

    • The same threats to other countries whose laws differ from American ones.

    • The same idea of American people's superiority.

    • Propagating the same mass paranoia.

    Too greedy politics, too obvious lies, too easy crosswords...

    That's how it looks from outside the USA. It's frightening. I remember living in Russia in 80s when I felt a sort of shame for the government and its politics because I could imagine how it looked from outside Russia. And I'm telling you Bush is now not better than Brezhnev was at the start of the Afghanistan war.
  • Reply 2 of 36
    scottscott Posts: 7,431member
    Yawn.
  • Reply 3 of 36
    haraldharald Posts: 2,152member
    "Yawn" says ScottH_BTEC



    My question that I'd like you answer is, "Do you think I've got a right to be angry about this as a European or not?"



    (A member of the US government going on national radio to espouse anti-European racism and juvenile propoganda, so ludicrous even an BBC journo is lost for words?)
  • Reply 4 of 36
    der kopfder kopf Posts: 2,275member
    Something that actually makes this situation worse is the insight that during, say, slavery (and the ensuing century of official segregation) a majority of the (deemed superior) people didn't think anything of it. I don't wish to single out the US though. A majority of Germans thought Hitler was a decent bloke, and they thought taking the land of the Polish, the Dutch, the Belgians, the French, the Danish, ... by force a refreshing idea. It is only afterwards, when the scales drop from the eyes of the masses, that an entire nation is shocked to find what their unwillingness to see the truth has caused.



    This, my friends, is the shock that is in store for US citizens after they awake and find themselves sitting in a seedy basement, their hands covered with blood, the walls covered with the heads of innocent muslim children.



    But what can you do? Preaching to the stupid is as efficient as shedding your seed on a rock. Only reality will provide the US with the fist in the face it needs to wake up.



    ("... and smell the maple nut crunch" to say it with some Dennis Leary).



    [ 02-14-2003: Message edited by: der Kopf ]</p>
  • Reply 5 of 36
    scottscott Posts: 7,431member
    I find the anti-American rhetoric to be boring and unintelligent. So I yawn.
  • Reply 6 of 36
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by costique:

    [QB]When I see Bush spread his arm before a crowd, he reminds me of Hitler.

    I was thinking the same thing. I keep expecting Bush to say in one of his speeches that he has, "The final solution to the Arab question." He is one scary beatch.
  • Reply 7 of 36
    [quote]Originally posted by Scott:

    <strong>I find the anti-American rhetoric to be boring and unintelligent. So I yawn.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Yes, I also post a lot on threads that bore me to tears ... but NEVER EVER on the ones that interest me!
  • Reply 8 of 36
    Next time you loose off one of your mis-spelled, ignorant tirades against the French, Scott, I'll come back with an equally infuriating 'Yawn'. Then we can really move the argument on. Understand the issues a bit better by thrashing things out in a spirit of curiousity.



    In the meantime, 'Yawn' is not a particularly good defence for American racism.



    (For future reference, neither are 'yee haw', 'chaaaaaarge', or 'dagnabbit I hates dem sandniggers'. And neither is calling France 'Frogland').
  • Reply 9 of 36
    buonrottobuonrotto Posts: 6,368member
    Meh, don't let one idiot politician tell you what all of America thinks of Europe or France or whoever. I don't like my local representative in Congress either, his views don't represent mine. Obviously he represents some Americans' views, but this place is much too heterogeneous to lump all of us in with his constiuents. And of course, he's allowed to say what he wants, right or wrong or stupid.



    [ 02-14-2003: Message edited by: BuonRotto ]</p>
  • Reply 10 of 36
    haraldharald Posts: 2,152member
    [quote]Originally posted by BuonRotto:

    <strong>Meh, don't let one idiot politician tell you what all of America thinks of Europe or France or whoever. I don't like my local representative in Congress either, his views don't represent mine. Obviously he represents some Americans' views, but this place is much too heterogeneous to lump all of us in with his constiuents. And of course, he's allowed to say what he wants, right or wrong or stupid.



    [ 02-14-2003: Message edited by: BuonRotto ]</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Buon, you speak words of wisdom.



    But I disagree with one point: your man is NOT allowed to say what he wants if he's racist. Surely that's against the ideals of the Constitution?



    And I can add -- if a UK MP or MEP said equivalent things about the US he would be FIRED. It would be an international incident. But no-one bats an eyelid at the seeming right of US popular representatives to say these incredible things. Have a listen man. Link in the first post.
  • Reply 11 of 36
    buonrottobuonrotto Posts: 6,368member
    [quote]Originally posted by Harald:

    <strong>



    Buon, you speak words of wisdom.



    But I disagree with one point: your man is NOT allowed to say what he wants if he's racist. Surely that's against the ideals of the Constitution?</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Unfortunatey, no, he is allowed to spew crap like that as much as he wants. Unless he is directly inciting violence (essentially giving orders like, "go kill so-and-so"), he is protected under the First Amendment.
  • Reply 12 of 36
    jimdadjimdad Posts: 209member
    It occurs to me that most of the trouble we are experiencing at the moment is down to our leaders. I don't think the ordinary Iraquis have much time for Saddam, American opinion doesn't seem to be solidly behind Bush ( who can hardly claim a "mandate" after the election fiasco) and Tony Blair has a whole 21% of Britain - about 0.1% in Scotland where I live - willing to support an invasion without a new UN resolution.



    Does the notion that they are there to listen to, and act upon, our views never occur to them?
  • Reply 13 of 36
    haraldharald Posts: 2,152member
    [quote]Originally posted by BuonRotto:

    <strong>



    Unfortunatey, no, he is allowed to spew crap like that as much as he wants. Unless he is directly inciting violence (essentially giving orders like, "go kill so-and-so"), he is protected under the First Amendment.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Damn.



    Well, you'd think there was some mechanism, like his boss saying "Oh well done, you just made the world a more dangerous place. Have a bollocking" to sort it out.



    I know if a government official in Yurrip said things about the US of the manner he said about us, it would be a serious diplomatic incident ... think about those remarks by that German junior minister that earned a rebuke from on high from the US and caused a resignation. Let's be clear, what this guy said is MUCH MUCH MUCH worse. Racism.



    And not a peep from the US or Europe, like this is the way things are.



    I guess what I'm pointing out is that this IS the way things are. This shows a part of US / world relations; while our governments seem to accept these abrasions the general public is getting seriously pissed off in all the major Euopean countries.



    And we're supposed to be your friends ...
  • Reply 14 of 36
    costiquecostique Posts: 1,084member
    The easiest way to see a country and make a judgement about what's going on there is to switch on a TV set and watch some biased report. This is what we see through the prism of our democratic mass media.

    So I just don't believe my eyes and tell myself that the majority of Americans are against the war, that they laugh in the face of their president and so on. Silly? No. What does the mass media tells you about Saddam and life in Iraq? What proofs of mass destruction weapons do they show? A satellite photo with 1mm squares marked by someone knowledgeable? Is that a proof? If they say it's rocket launchers, do you agree? If they said it's schools instead? What do you see on the photos?

    This is propaganda. The brilliant guys who lead the show think we all are crazy and don't understand a thing. If you see your wife/husband/child/father lies to you looking straight in your face, what would you do?

    By the way, Euronews said the Pentagon bought 6000 coffins and many thousands of plastic bags. Just think about it. Just think.



    Scott, this is not an anti-American rhetoric. Some people simply don't like the idea of war. And if anti-war means anti-American, I am really sorry.
  • Reply 15 of 36
    jrcjrc Posts: 804member
    [quote]Originally posted by Scott:

    <strong>I find the anti-American rhetoric to be boring and unintelligent. So I yawn.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    I agree. But I subsequently fart, too.
  • Reply 16 of 36
    buonrottobuonrotto Posts: 6,368member
    I can't say why this guy isn't getting his ass handed to him by fellow politicians or the media, but we've also had congresspeople talk about the the kindheartedness of Osama Bin Laden on the Capitol floor in recent months with nary a whisper about it after the fact. So I don't know what gets people's attention and what doesn't. He can't really be removed from office either unless pressured to resign, but of course people can speak with their vote.



    Remember that John Ashcroft lost to a dead man in his last run for the Senate.
  • Reply 17 of 36
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,454member
    [quote]Originally posted by Harald:

    <strong><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/radio4/today/listen/audiosearch.pl?ProgID=1044956954"; target="_blank">Have you heard this?</a>



    This a US congressman interviewed on the BBC where he spouts unbelievable racist crap about Europe. The interviewer clearly can't believe what he's hearing. It would be funny if it weren't frightening. No way for a government to behave.



    What's interesting is that this sort of bullshit, which seems to sum up how the US administration thinks about any nation that won't do what it's told, goes unremarked these days.



    WANKER.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    I just listened to that entire interview and I don't see what is racist at all about it.



    You have a U.S. congressman being a bit blunt but very truthful in my opinion. He may not be the most articulate guy out there but his points are completely valid.



    There are (in my opinion) three things he is mention that are all valid in determining the present and future strength of a country. He mentions economic strength, population size and growth, and finally military strength.



    Many European countries are suffering depopulation. Unless they allow immigration, there simply won't be enough kids to replace the folks there today. Simple fact and nothing racist about it.



    The second issue is economic strength. Germany is in the economic toilet right now with 11% unemployment. The economy of France is smaller than the economy of the state of Caliornia in the U.S. One of the reasons the E.U. was formed was to try to make Europe more competitive globally in economic terms. It isn't racist, it is a fact. It is so expensive to originate jobs in Germany that people simply don't do it.



    Lastly you have military might as a measure. France and Germany have been reducing their spending in this area for years. Then they turn around and expect the same treatment as someone who is a power who can contribute militarily.



    As the congressmen said, aside from purely cultural attributes, which in my opinion would be a racist way by which to judge a country, what have they got over say the emerging economies and populations of less developed countries?



    It is a valid question and one that deserves an answer if France and Germany are going to expect major role player status but then have second tier economies, militaries and populations.



    Nick
  • Reply 18 of 36
    haraldharald Posts: 2,152member
    [quote]Originally posted by trumptman:

    <strong>



    I just listened to that entire interview and I don't see what is racist at all about it.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Uh Nick, I was really referring to the stuff the interviewer was calling "crude" ... umm the bits about how the French were cowards who could "go and teach the Iraqis how to surrender" -- at a stroke forgetting who spearheaded several attacks in 1991 -- and how the Germans were basically useless at anything but "starting world wars."



    That and a whole bunch of other stuff. Did you not hear that, or did it not register?
  • Reply 19 of 36
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    I find it funny that the thread is started because of a Congressman's idiotic tirade and it's followed by idiotic tirades from the *other* side of the Atlantic.



    Fighting stupid with stupid, as it were.



    Comparing Bush to Hitler... from a European... wow. That's just funny on a few different levels. Well it would be funny if it weren't so pathetic.



    [quote]This, my friends, is the shock that is in store for US citizens after they awake and find themselves sitting in a seedy basement, their hands covered with blood, the walls covered with the heads of innocent muslim children.<hr></blockquote>



    And as tens of thousands of Iraqi children die because of the sanctions your nation supports what about the blood on YOUR hands?



    Hear no evil, speak no evil, see no evil.



    Or are sanctions the U.S.'s fault?



    What's your suggestion, der Kopf, what's your idea?
  • Reply 20 of 36
    haraldharald Posts: 2,152member
    [quote]Originally posted by trumptman:

    <strong> He mentions economic strength, population size and growth, and finally military strength.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    France and Germany are among the largest economies in the world. Top five. Or do you have to be as large as the US before your opinions are "relevant"?



    France is a nuclear power, as is Britain. How large does your army have to be, relative to the US, before you are "relevant"?



    The countries are <a href="http://history.wisc.edu/archdeacon/404tja/popex.html"; target="_blank">not depopulating</a>



    Next.



    [ 02-14-2003: Message edited by: Harald ]



    [ 02-14-2003: Message edited by: Harald ]</p>
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