I'm sure Intel could get the contract if they tried hard enough.
Moving to Intel would be a lot harder than going to another foundry like TSMC (or Chartered of Global Foundries).
One of the side effects of TSMC becoming so successful is that all other foundries (Samsung, Chartered, Global Foundries et al) all make themselves "T Compatible", i.e. they make sure their lines can run the same processes and hence are compatible with TSMC.
The knock on effect is that fabless chip companies, such as Apple, make sure their designs are "T Compatible" and can be run through pretty much any foundry.
Intel however are not T Compatible, since they have never pushed themselves as a foundry. It would be a huge effort for Intel to get fabs ready and able to run a non-Intel device. I can't see it to be honest, but that said, semiconductors is as odd place at the moment.
My understanding from people in the SEMI industry the deal is done now, TSMC is gearing up to start cranking out the A5 chips for Apple. The other part of this which people are not talking about is the fact the A5 Chip also has in it Samsung Memory. Apple is moving away from Samsung memory to Hynix. By moving to TSMC will give apple more supply flexibility verse being tied solely to Samsung fabs as well as Samsung Memory.
I said this before, Apple is sending a clear message to Samsung and any other supplier, do not mess with Apple because the can change directing in no time. Samsung the Mother Ship will have decide and it maybe too late now whether loosing Apple as a $8B component customer is worth loosing over selling a few phones.
How about bringing production stateside? Use those billions on hand to be able to print 'Made In America' on iDevice boxes.
Because people in Asia & Europe will really pay more for that sticker right? Apple will move production to the US the day that production in the US makes economic sense, and not a day sooner.
Its a complicated business world and Apple is a very hard nosed supply buyer. They demand performance, quality, cost, responsiveness, secrecy, etc., and so they will change vendors. Could the law suits be playing a role, maybe, but the evidence is weak, correlation is NOT causation.
Yup. Lawsuits probably had zero relation to this. Apple asks TMSC and Samsung to bid on A5 and A6 SoCs. TMSC comes in at a lower bid, with assurances for quality, quantity and schedule; Apple goes with TMSC.
I can pretty much guarantee that Apple did not burn its bridges with Samsung Semiconductor. What's going to happen if Apple wants more supply than TMSC can deliver? There's basically only 3 other choices: Intel, Samsung, and maybe some Japanese conglomerate.
Yup. Lawsuits probably had zero relation to this. Apple asks TMSC and Samsung to bid on A5 and A6 SoCs. TMSC comes in at a lower bid, with assurances for quality, quantity and schedule; Apple goes with TMSC.
Exactly, and in fact if the two bids were close apple may decide to split production between them in order to reduce risk - the problems in Japan after the tsunami demonstrated the advantages of being a bit more diversified. It may very well turn out that Apple is only moving a certain percentage of production across to TSMC.
It can cut both ways. If samsung is first to market with new technologies like quantum dot displays, Apple might not be given a look in if they want to use them if they piss-off Samsung too much.
Everyone seems to be ignoring the gorilla. There are very good reasons Apple have been using Samsung, they have been able to deliver quality and volume at competitive prices. Apple would have been using other suppliers if they could do better than Samsung.
So one or all of quality, price and volume are going to suffer. Apple might find it has to sacrifice it's profit margin a bit in order to move away from Samsung. Otherwise known as 'Cutting off your nose to spite your face.'
How about bringing production stateside? Use those billions on hand to be able to print 'Made In America' on iDevice boxes.
US residents would have to be willing to pay a premium for that sticker, something they've consistently shown no interest in doing.
American consumers care about the lowest cost possible, and while they might sign petitions saying stuff needs to be "Made in 'MERICA" they'll go and sign another petition soon after complaining about rising prices, and then they'll find the place that sells their products the cheapest (not looking where it comes from) and use the money they save to buy more worthless things.
American consumers have to value more than price for companies to start caring about more than price.
US residents would have to be willing to pay a premium for that sticker, something they've consistently shown no interest in doing.
American consumers care about the lowest cost possible, and while they might sign petitions saying stuff needs to be "Made in 'MERICA" they'll go and sign another petition soon after complaining about rising prices, and then they'll find the place that sells their products the cheapest (not looking where it comes from) and use the money they save to buy more worthless things.
American consumers have to value more than price for companies to start caring about more than price.
Rubbish, Apple just need to open a fab plant and have the staff provided by US prisons. They could churn out product cheaper than foxcon.
Because people in Asia & Europe will really pay more for that sticker right? Apple will move production to the US the day that production in the US makes economic sense, and not a day sooner.
USA production makes sense to many corporations these days. With higher fuel prices and theft of in transit merchandise, companies are returning production to the USA because foreign manufacturing was costing more than they thought it would.
Apple seems to be a company that likes total control over things. Why not make it easier to control things by having its own factories in the USA? It should begin with assembly plants for its products and then begin making its components here. Perhaps simple component manufacturing like iPod bodies and Mac Book bodies could be done here. Those are done by computer controlled machines, so quality wouldn't change at all.
One thing that will be a big hold up in state side production of chips is China. China now refuses to export the Rare Earth metals needed for microchip production. They demand such metals are only used for finished products. It's a good move for them but a stumbling block for semiconductor manufacturers.
There are benefits to supporting one's own country. It would be a big PR win for Apple. It would make me more likely to purchase future Apple products and it would have the same effect on others.
USA production makes sense to many corporations these days. With higher fuel prices and theft of in transit merchandise, companies are returning production to the USA because foreign manufacturing was costing more than they thought it would.
Sadly, I don't see any signs that this is true. I wish it were, but there has not yet been an massive onshoring.
Apple seems to be a company that likes total control over things. Why not make it easier to control things by having its own factories in the USA?
Apple decided a long time ago that control over manufacturing didn't mean it had to own factories, and that in fact it was better to outsource factories to firms that focused really hard on it. Same reason that Apple don't try to make their own LCD panels or their own DRAM. I can imagine Apple buying a big minority stake in Foxconn long before I can imagine them building their own factories again.
Quote:
There are benefits to supporting one's own country. It would be a big PR win for Apple. It would make me more likely to purchase future Apple products and it would have the same effect on others.
No, it would be a huge PR loss to Apple because it would piss Asian buyers off far more than it would please americans - who seem perfectly happy to buy Samsung/Toshiba/Toyota/etc.
That is BS. Toyota and Honda build cars here, and the pricing is competitive with cars built overseas. Further, many studies have been done to show the alleged cost savings. When American companies went overseas, the cost didn't drop on the products. The move was about greed. They wanted more profit margins, and less red tape. According to many studies, it actually isn't a great savings to build overseas because of issues like paying different types of taxes, like greasing the Communist parties hands.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menno
US residents would have to be willing to pay a premium for that sticker, something they've consistently shown no interest in doing.
American consumers care about the lowest cost possible, and while they might sign petitions saying stuff needs to be "Made in 'MERICA" they'll go and sign another petition soon after complaining about rising prices, and then they'll find the place that sells their products the cheapest (not looking where it comes from) and use the money they save to buy more worthless things.
American consumers have to value more than price for companies to start caring about more than price.
Comments
I'm sure Intel could get the contract if they tried hard enough.
Moving to Intel would be a lot harder than going to another foundry like TSMC (or Chartered of Global Foundries).
One of the side effects of TSMC becoming so successful is that all other foundries (Samsung, Chartered, Global Foundries et al) all make themselves "T Compatible", i.e. they make sure their lines can run the same processes and hence are compatible with TSMC.
The knock on effect is that fabless chip companies, such as Apple, make sure their designs are "T Compatible" and can be run through pretty much any foundry.
Intel however are not T Compatible, since they have never pushed themselves as a foundry. It would be a huge effort for Intel to get fabs ready and able to run a non-Intel device. I can't see it to be honest, but that said, semiconductors is as odd place at the moment.
I said this before, Apple is sending a clear message to Samsung and any other supplier, do not mess with Apple because the can change directing in no time. Samsung the Mother Ship will have decide and it maybe too late now whether loosing Apple as a $8B component customer is worth loosing over selling a few phones.
How about bringing production stateside? Use those billions on hand to be able to print 'Made In America' on iDevice boxes.
Because people in Asia & Europe will really pay more for that sticker right? Apple will move production to the US the day that production in the US makes economic sense, and not a day sooner.
Its a complicated business world and Apple is a very hard nosed supply buyer. They demand performance, quality, cost, responsiveness, secrecy, etc., and so they will change vendors. Could the law suits be playing a role, maybe, but the evidence is weak, correlation is NOT causation.
Yup. Lawsuits probably had zero relation to this. Apple asks TMSC and Samsung to bid on A5 and A6 SoCs. TMSC comes in at a lower bid, with assurances for quality, quantity and schedule; Apple goes with TMSC.
I can pretty much guarantee that Apple did not burn its bridges with Samsung Semiconductor. What's going to happen if Apple wants more supply than TMSC can deliver? There's basically only 3 other choices: Intel, Samsung, and maybe some Japanese conglomerate.
Yup. Lawsuits probably had zero relation to this. Apple asks TMSC and Samsung to bid on A5 and A6 SoCs. TMSC comes in at a lower bid, with assurances for quality, quantity and schedule; Apple goes with TMSC.
Exactly, and in fact if the two bids were close apple may decide to split production between them in order to reduce risk - the problems in Japan after the tsunami demonstrated the advantages of being a bit more diversified. It may very well turn out that Apple is only moving a certain percentage of production across to TSMC.
Everyone seems to be ignoring the gorilla. There are very good reasons Apple have been using Samsung, they have been able to deliver quality and volume at competitive prices. Apple would have been using other suppliers if they could do better than Samsung.
So one or all of quality, price and volume are going to suffer. Apple might find it has to sacrifice it's profit margin a bit in order to move away from Samsung. Otherwise known as 'Cutting off your nose to spite your face.'
How about bringing production stateside? Use those billions on hand to be able to print 'Made In America' on iDevice boxes.
US residents would have to be willing to pay a premium for that sticker, something they've consistently shown no interest in doing.
American consumers care about the lowest cost possible, and while they might sign petitions saying stuff needs to be "Made in 'MERICA" they'll go and sign another petition soon after complaining about rising prices, and then they'll find the place that sells their products the cheapest (not looking where it comes from) and use the money they save to buy more worthless things.
American consumers have to value more than price for companies to start caring about more than price.
US residents would have to be willing to pay a premium for that sticker, something they've consistently shown no interest in doing.
American consumers care about the lowest cost possible, and while they might sign petitions saying stuff needs to be "Made in 'MERICA" they'll go and sign another petition soon after complaining about rising prices, and then they'll find the place that sells their products the cheapest (not looking where it comes from) and use the money they save to buy more worthless things.
American consumers have to value more than price for companies to start caring about more than price.
Rubbish, Apple just need to open a fab plant and have the staff provided by US prisons. They could churn out product cheaper than foxcon.
Because people in Asia & Europe will really pay more for that sticker right? Apple will move production to the US the day that production in the US makes economic sense, and not a day sooner.
USA production makes sense to many corporations these days. With higher fuel prices and theft of in transit merchandise, companies are returning production to the USA because foreign manufacturing was costing more than they thought it would.
Apple seems to be a company that likes total control over things. Why not make it easier to control things by having its own factories in the USA? It should begin with assembly plants for its products and then begin making its components here. Perhaps simple component manufacturing like iPod bodies and Mac Book bodies could be done here. Those are done by computer controlled machines, so quality wouldn't change at all.
One thing that will be a big hold up in state side production of chips is China. China now refuses to export the Rare Earth metals needed for microchip production. They demand such metals are only used for finished products. It's a good move for them but a stumbling block for semiconductor manufacturers.
There are benefits to supporting one's own country. It would be a big PR win for Apple. It would make me more likely to purchase future Apple products and it would have the same effect on others.
USA production makes sense to many corporations these days. With higher fuel prices and theft of in transit merchandise, companies are returning production to the USA because foreign manufacturing was costing more than they thought it would.
Sadly, I don't see any signs that this is true. I wish it were, but there has not yet been an massive onshoring.
Apple seems to be a company that likes total control over things. Why not make it easier to control things by having its own factories in the USA?
Apple decided a long time ago that control over manufacturing didn't mean it had to own factories, and that in fact it was better to outsource factories to firms that focused really hard on it. Same reason that Apple don't try to make their own LCD panels or their own DRAM. I can imagine Apple buying a big minority stake in Foxconn long before I can imagine them building their own factories again.
There are benefits to supporting one's own country. It would be a big PR win for Apple. It would make me more likely to purchase future Apple products and it would have the same effect on others.
No, it would be a huge PR loss to Apple because it would piss Asian buyers off far more than it would please americans - who seem perfectly happy to buy Samsung/Toshiba/Toyota/etc.
US residents would have to be willing to pay a premium for that sticker, something they've consistently shown no interest in doing.
American consumers care about the lowest cost possible, and while they might sign petitions saying stuff needs to be "Made in 'MERICA" they'll go and sign another petition soon after complaining about rising prices, and then they'll find the place that sells their products the cheapest (not looking where it comes from) and use the money they save to buy more worthless things.
American consumers have to value more than price for companies to start caring about more than price.
That is BS. Toyota and Honda build cars here,.
They don't build here, they assemble here .... big difference.
Samsung just copies Steve and rips him off. Why should he give them his business?
I'll be glad to know my new shiny Apple product has ZERO Samsung components.
It's not so simple.
Samsung makes RAM, NAND, displays AND batteries for Apple.
8 bil is not chump change. You would think they would want to play ball with apple.
$ 8 Billion in a pool of $140 Billion is chump change.
Why not go with AMD, ahem, Global Foundries?
If Apple's goals is to get away from Samsung, they wont succeed. Samsung is one of the founders of Global Foundaries.
If Apple's goals is to get away from Samsung, they wont succeed. Samsung is one of the founders of Global Foundaries.
No they aren't. GF were founded by combining AMD and Chartered (and a couple of other smaller fabs) and saying they are a foundry.
As a result, GF are part of an alliance including IBM, Samsung and previously AMD in developing process technology, but Samsung didn't found GF.
No they aren't. GF were founded by combining AMD and Chartered (and a couple of other smaller fabs) and saying they are a foundry.
As a result, GF are part of an alliance including IBM, Samsung and previously AMD in developing process technology, but Samsung didn't found GF.
*find.