I has been happening for more costly to ship products, particularly if the raw materials come from close by.
An example is the GM Volt batteries, which were originally to be produced in Korea, but production was moved to USA because of raw material and final product shipping costs.
There are bound to be exceptions, but they are very much the exceptions that prove the rule.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshA
With micro chips shipping weight is not nearly as great an influence on plant location, but the automated production machines are not so influenced by labor costs.
True, but for microprocessors, other factors come into play that make U.S. manufacture uneconomical. Environmental costs. Liability costs. Pensions. Overhead costs. Business income taxes. And so on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menno
But your entire example is missing the point of my main argument: It is CONSUMERS who are demanding cheaper prices for their products above almost everything else. Above Quality (with very few exceptions), above location, etc. Sure, there is a growing "Fair Trade" movement, but people still are largely driven to where items are cheapest no matter any other factors (save branding).
Until consumers are willing to pay a premium for the "Made in the USA" tag, there is little incentive for companies to assume the higher cost of doing business here. Then there is the customer ignorance issue, where a lot of the "buy american!" supporters are still driving Fords and Chevy's instead of a Toyota, Honda, or Subaru.
That's true, but there's also a chicken and egg thing.
Two examples:
1. I wanted to buy a patio furniture set a few years ago and wanted one made in the U.S.A. I was willing to pay a significantly higher premium than most people can. Walmart and other big box stores had patio sets for $150-200 -- but all were made in Asia. NONE of the discount places offered any American made patio sets. The local 'boutique' lawn and garden place had the same Asian patio sets for around $250-300 - so the boutique was about 100% more expensive than the big box stores. They also had a couple of American patio sets for $500-600. So, while the premium was 100% compared to the Asian products in the same stores, it was more like 300% compared to Asian products in discount stores. Using the same ratios, if the big box stores were offering American product, it would probably have been $300-400 which more people could afford than $500 or 600.
Thus, the drive toward big box and discount stores taking over the market --- combined with their refusal to carry American product makes it much harder for even people who WANT to buy American to do so.
2. A few years ago, I decided to buy a new fishing rod and reel - but wanted it to be American made. I went to 3 major sporting goods chains and none of them had a single American made fishing rod and only one or two reels. They did, however, steer me toward an aisle which had a bunch of imports with names like "USA Pride" or "American's Best" or something like that. A consumer who didn't pay close attention to the "Made in...." sticker could get duped into buying imports.
The bottom line is that after considerable research, it appears that we've nearly lost our fishing rod manufacturing capability in this country. I did find a local supplier who makes rods but they are made by hand in small quantities. As I said, reels are a bit better, but even for reels, we couldn't supply demand even if we wanted to.
We've lost our ability to make a number of different products in this country.
That's true, but there's also a chicken and egg thing.
Two examples:
1. I wanted to buy a patio furniture set a few years ago and wanted one made in the U.S.A. I was willing to pay a significantly higher premium than most people can. Walmart and other big box stores had patio sets for $150-200 -- but all were made in Asia. NONE of the discount places offered any American made patio sets. The local 'boutique' lawn and garden place had the same Asian patio sets for around $250-300 - so the boutique was about 100% more expensive than the big box stores. They also had a couple of American patio sets for $500-600. So, while the premium was 100% compared to the Asian products in the same stores, it was more like 300% compared to Asian products in discount stores. Using the same ratios, if the big box stores were offering American product, it would probably have been $300-400 which more people could afford than $500 or 600.
Thus, the drive toward big box and discount stores taking over the market --- combined with their refusal to carry American product makes it much harder for even people who WANT to buy American to do so.
It's not that big box retailers "refuse" to carry american products, it's that most american companies cannot produce in the volume of a company like walmart, or for the price point of walmart/discount retailers. Additionally, Stores like walmart operate on razor thin margins. Several years ago that margin was they sold $35 of product to make $1 profit, I don't know what it's like now. They actually had a push years ago to push "made in the USA" products, but the initiative faltered because when presented with two items (one 200, one 300) the customers overwhelmingly chose the 200 product, and because stocking items that don't sell well costs money, they cut more expensive products. There is a great book about this, (and other things) called "The Walmart Effect." It's worth looking at if you're into economics.
For most consumers (you and I being exceptions) the only thing they really care about is the final price tag, even if they state otherwise. Sure, they may say they want "American Products" but they'll buy things stamped with "Made in China" anyway, because it means they can buy more of them.
Quote:
2. A few years ago, I decided to buy a new fishing rod and reel - but wanted it to be American made. I went to 3 major sporting goods chains and none of them had a single American made fishing rod and only one or two reels. They did, however, steer me toward an aisle which had a bunch of imports with names like "USA Pride" or "American's Best" or something like that. A consumer who didn't pay close attention to the "Made in...." sticker could get duped into buying imports.
The bottom line is that after considerable research, it appears that we've nearly lost our fishing rod manufacturing capability in this country. I did find a local supplier who makes rods but they are made by hand in small quantities. As I said, reels are a bit better, but even for reels, we couldn't supply demand even if we wanted to.
We've lost our ability to make a number of different products in this country.
Which leads me to this ^ and it is a real problem. Since customers are driven to discounts and discount retailers, it means that if American companies can't compete on price, they either move or they fold. And then if someone tries starting a new company, marketing as "Made in the USA" it's an uphill battle to try and get enough revenue to remain solvent, both because of economies of scale, and because of our culture's addiction to the cheapest price.
There is a market for American products, but it's not one that would do well in a big box retail. it's something that will be relegated to specialty stores and online distribution until more people make the conscious effort to purchase items made in the USA, even at a premium.
It is a "Chicken/Egg" problem in the sense that one problem makes the other worse, but the only people who can stop it are consumers. Companies won't take on the higher costs of building here (and stores the Long-Tail inventory) without seeing a demand. I try and buy local when I can, and you're right it is difficult, but I also know that most of the people I know (even those of my friends who are part of the "Green" movement, still will choose foreign made items based on price.
Apple's new A6 is targeted at 28nm process technology which only a few global foundries can produce. Maybe Samsung has encountered some difficulties and Apple has decided to go with another vendor. Plus as anyone in the industry knows, even if the wafer foundry division is run by different folks from the mobile division at Samsung, they all talk and share info. The mobile execs know exactly what the A5 costs and what margin is extracted from Apple. I think it's a good move to steer your custom processor, the soul of Apple iPhones/iPads, away from your biggest competitor. Keep the generic memory chips business there.
Yeah, as if TSMC can meet Samsungs 28nm capacity.
Hint:
Nope, TSMC won't have their 28nm process ready for mass production till 2012, and even then they hardly can meet samsungs capacity (Samsung is expanding massively on 28nm right now :>)
Nope, TSMC won't have their 28nm process ready for mass production till 2012, and even then they hardly can meet samsungs capacity (Samsung is expanding massively on 28nm right now :>)
I can find no evidence that Samsung is currently mass producing 28nm chips, or that it expects to start any sooner than Q4, when TSMC also expects to start in their existing fabs. 2012 is when TSCM open up another completely new Fab which will also be on 28nm.
If you have some hard evidence otherwise I'd be interested in seeing it.
Which begs the question why not Intel? Intel has the best fabrication technology.
It's really a question for Intel, not Apple. Intel isn't really in the business of fabbing non-Intel parts. Intel still dreams of making Atom work. They really really need to wake up.
Comments
If you wanted color, viewing angle, or less Eye strain in certain conditions? You went for the SAMOLED.
Colour isn't clear cut. SAMOLED is at least as over-saturated as iPhone is undersaturated
Where SAMOLED absolutely shines is contrast.
I has been happening for more costly to ship products, particularly if the raw materials come from close by.
An example is the GM Volt batteries, which were originally to be produced in Korea, but production was moved to USA because of raw material and final product shipping costs.
There are bound to be exceptions, but they are very much the exceptions that prove the rule.
With micro chips shipping weight is not nearly as great an influence on plant location, but the automated production machines are not so influenced by labor costs.
True, but for microprocessors, other factors come into play that make U.S. manufacture uneconomical. Environmental costs. Liability costs. Pensions. Overhead costs. Business income taxes. And so on.
But your entire example is missing the point of my main argument: It is CONSUMERS who are demanding cheaper prices for their products above almost everything else. Above Quality (with very few exceptions), above location, etc. Sure, there is a growing "Fair Trade" movement, but people still are largely driven to where items are cheapest no matter any other factors (save branding).
Until consumers are willing to pay a premium for the "Made in the USA" tag, there is little incentive for companies to assume the higher cost of doing business here. Then there is the customer ignorance issue, where a lot of the "buy american!" supporters are still driving Fords and Chevy's instead of a Toyota, Honda, or Subaru.
That's true, but there's also a chicken and egg thing.
Two examples:
1. I wanted to buy a patio furniture set a few years ago and wanted one made in the U.S.A. I was willing to pay a significantly higher premium than most people can. Walmart and other big box stores had patio sets for $150-200 -- but all were made in Asia. NONE of the discount places offered any American made patio sets. The local 'boutique' lawn and garden place had the same Asian patio sets for around $250-300 - so the boutique was about 100% more expensive than the big box stores. They also had a couple of American patio sets for $500-600. So, while the premium was 100% compared to the Asian products in the same stores, it was more like 300% compared to Asian products in discount stores. Using the same ratios, if the big box stores were offering American product, it would probably have been $300-400 which more people could afford than $500 or 600.
Thus, the drive toward big box and discount stores taking over the market --- combined with their refusal to carry American product makes it much harder for even people who WANT to buy American to do so.
2. A few years ago, I decided to buy a new fishing rod and reel - but wanted it to be American made. I went to 3 major sporting goods chains and none of them had a single American made fishing rod and only one or two reels. They did, however, steer me toward an aisle which had a bunch of imports with names like "USA Pride" or "American's Best" or something like that. A consumer who didn't pay close attention to the "Made in...." sticker could get duped into buying imports.
The bottom line is that after considerable research, it appears that we've nearly lost our fishing rod manufacturing capability in this country. I did find a local supplier who makes rods but they are made by hand in small quantities. As I said, reels are a bit better, but even for reels, we couldn't supply demand even if we wanted to.
We've lost our ability to make a number of different products in this country.
That's true, but there's also a chicken and egg thing.
Two examples:
1. I wanted to buy a patio furniture set a few years ago and wanted one made in the U.S.A. I was willing to pay a significantly higher premium than most people can. Walmart and other big box stores had patio sets for $150-200 -- but all were made in Asia. NONE of the discount places offered any American made patio sets. The local 'boutique' lawn and garden place had the same Asian patio sets for around $250-300 - so the boutique was about 100% more expensive than the big box stores. They also had a couple of American patio sets for $500-600. So, while the premium was 100% compared to the Asian products in the same stores, it was more like 300% compared to Asian products in discount stores. Using the same ratios, if the big box stores were offering American product, it would probably have been $300-400 which more people could afford than $500 or 600.
Thus, the drive toward big box and discount stores taking over the market --- combined with their refusal to carry American product makes it much harder for even people who WANT to buy American to do so.
It's not that big box retailers "refuse" to carry american products, it's that most american companies cannot produce in the volume of a company like walmart, or for the price point of walmart/discount retailers. Additionally, Stores like walmart operate on razor thin margins. Several years ago that margin was they sold $35 of product to make $1 profit, I don't know what it's like now. They actually had a push years ago to push "made in the USA" products, but the initiative faltered because when presented with two items (one 200, one 300) the customers overwhelmingly chose the 200 product, and because stocking items that don't sell well costs money, they cut more expensive products. There is a great book about this, (and other things) called "The Walmart Effect." It's worth looking at if you're into economics.
For most consumers (you and I being exceptions) the only thing they really care about is the final price tag, even if they state otherwise. Sure, they may say they want "American Products" but they'll buy things stamped with "Made in China" anyway, because it means they can buy more of them.
2. A few years ago, I decided to buy a new fishing rod and reel - but wanted it to be American made. I went to 3 major sporting goods chains and none of them had a single American made fishing rod and only one or two reels. They did, however, steer me toward an aisle which had a bunch of imports with names like "USA Pride" or "American's Best" or something like that. A consumer who didn't pay close attention to the "Made in...." sticker could get duped into buying imports.
The bottom line is that after considerable research, it appears that we've nearly lost our fishing rod manufacturing capability in this country. I did find a local supplier who makes rods but they are made by hand in small quantities. As I said, reels are a bit better, but even for reels, we couldn't supply demand even if we wanted to.
We've lost our ability to make a number of different products in this country.
Which leads me to this ^ and it is a real problem. Since customers are driven to discounts and discount retailers, it means that if American companies can't compete on price, they either move or they fold. And then if someone tries starting a new company, marketing as "Made in the USA" it's an uphill battle to try and get enough revenue to remain solvent, both because of economies of scale, and because of our culture's addiction to the cheapest price.
There is a market for American products, but it's not one that would do well in a big box retail. it's something that will be relegated to specialty stores and online distribution until more people make the conscious effort to purchase items made in the USA, even at a premium.
It is a "Chicken/Egg" problem in the sense that one problem makes the other worse, but the only people who can stop it are consumers. Companies won't take on the higher costs of building here (and stores the Long-Tail inventory) without seeing a demand. I try and buy local when I can, and you're right it is difficult, but I also know that most of the people I know (even those of my friends who are part of the "Green" movement, still will choose foreign made items based on price.
Apple's new A6 is targeted at 28nm process technology which only a few global foundries can produce. Maybe Samsung has encountered some difficulties and Apple has decided to go with another vendor. Plus as anyone in the industry knows, even if the wafer foundry division is run by different folks from the mobile division at Samsung, they all talk and share info. The mobile execs know exactly what the A5 costs and what margin is extracted from Apple. I think it's a good move to steer your custom processor, the soul of Apple iPhones/iPads, away from your biggest competitor. Keep the generic memory chips business there.
Yeah, as if TSMC can meet Samsungs 28nm capacity.
Hint:
Nope, TSMC won't have their 28nm process ready for mass production till 2012, and even then they hardly can meet samsungs capacity (Samsung is expanding massively on 28nm right now :>)
Yeah, as if TSMC can meet Samsungs 28nm capacity.
Hint:
Nope, TSMC won't have their 28nm process ready for mass production till 2012, and even then they hardly can meet samsungs capacity (Samsung is expanding massively on 28nm right now :>)
I can find no evidence that Samsung is currently mass producing 28nm chips, or that it expects to start any sooner than Q4, when TSMC also expects to start in their existing fabs. 2012 is when TSCM open up another completely new Fab which will also be on 28nm.
If you have some hard evidence otherwise I'd be interested in seeing it.
Which begs the question why not Intel? Intel has the best fabrication technology.
It's really a question for Intel, not Apple. Intel isn't really in the business of fabbing non-Intel parts. Intel still dreams of making Atom work. They really really need to wake up.