Adobe courts video professionals in wake of uproar over Apple's Final Cut Pro X

1356

Comments

  • Reply 41 of 120
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleSauce007 View Post


    Professionals? Yeah Right!



    People who do not adjust to the new Final Cut Pro X will lose in the longer term. FCP X users will have will have a huge advantage in organizing their data better, by editing and rendering faster, more accurately in a richer environment.



    These folks are upset because FCP X is different and it does not import their old projects. That's understandable. However, in terms of editing power FCP X is years ahead.



    If an old dogs refuses to learn new tricks, it can be replaced by a better and more modern dog.

    FCP X will will over a lot of new Users because of it's ease of use and power.



    Time will tell.



    I appreciate your thoughts but think that you are over-simplifying the situation. I know of major studios such as Paramount, that have a significant investment in FCP - products, hardware and skills. They have massive archives of FCP files that, now, cannot be transferred to FCPX. This is not just about individual FCP users being stubborn old farts - this is a major, enterprise-level challenge. FCPX is clearly NOT years ahead else it there would be no concerns about backward compatibility, multi-cam support, and many other features which have disappeared overnight. Sure, if you are producing YouTube videos or stuff to upload to Facebook, FCPX is probably perfect. But if you want to produce the next Social Network, I strongly suspect that studios will be looking elsewhere.
  • Reply 42 of 120
    povilaspovilas Posts: 473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by akhomerun View Post


    what arrogance?

    - agents have given refunds and admitted faults

    - apple has promised to add many removed features (multicam)

    - many complaints are unwarranted (apple explained how to change file locations)

    - apple listens to feedback. it's why the ipod touch has volume buttons, for example. their secrecy and willingness to leave behind the past can sometimes piss people off, but that's not arrogance.



    if you don't totally throw out old code eventually you end up with something like....well like every old adobe product. apple believes that it's best to throw out code at the proper time and start over if software technologies have progressed far enough. i agree with this notion and i agree with the stance that it makes for feature barren software in the near term (mac os 10.0-10.1, imovie 08)



    I will keep this for another 6 months or so and mail you personally then.
  • Reply 43 of 120
    akhomerunakhomerun Posts: 386member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by september11th View Post


    I was thinking about this today.



    Going from FCP7 to FCPX is a major change, literally asking everyone to relearn a new editing program. It is not FCP, it is simply a new program. Had another company put this out, it would likely fail. Adobe Premiere is more similar to FCP7 than FCPX is.. and having been a FCP user for many years, if I had to choose one right now, I would go to Adobe. Their production suite is now a better solution than FCPX. Even if they add some of the features back, I really think Apple has screwed themselves.



    apple isn't totally screwed.



    they will restore important features like multicam. actually that's the only important feature that anyone really has a legitimate complaint about. i can't see any other legitimate complaint.



    they are gonna make those changes, probably within a few short months, do some kind of relaunch with a free upgrade to people who bought X, and everyone is gonna love it. see windows vista -> windows 7.
  • Reply 44 of 120
    FINALLY Adobe wakes up - about one week too late.



    I wrote to their CEO. I posted to discussion forums and comments pages all over the web. If you came across this, it was from me:



    "I still find it very hard to believe that the product marketing team at Adobe was not all over this from day one, trying to snatch away FCP users for Adobe Premier Pro which, I understand, is starting to see more attention from the industry.



    This is, potentially, a once in a [product] lifetime opportunity for Adobe to win market share from Apple for what has, in the past, been seen as an inferior product. Adobe has been investing heavily in their production offerings and Premier Pro is now a worthwhile product. The Adobe team MUST have been watching the FCPX launch closely, surely they saw the same snatched screen shots that everyone else saw.



    Why did they not have a massive campaign, ready to go, the day after Apple announced?



    This is a career-ruining faux-pas."

  • Reply 45 of 120
    akhomerunakhomerun Posts: 386member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by newchannelmedia View Post


    I appreciate your thoughts but think that you are over-simplifying the situation. I know of major studios such as Paramount, that have a significant investment in FCP - products, hardware and skills. They have massive archives of FCP files that, now, cannot be transferred to FCPX. This is not just about individual FCP users being stubborn old farts - this is a major, enterprise-level challenge. FCPX is clearly NOT years ahead else it there would be no concerns about backward compatibility, multi-cam support, and many other features which have disappeared overnight. Sure, if you are producing YouTube videos or stuff to upload to Facebook, FCPX is probably perfect. But if you want to produce the next Social Network, I strongly suspect that studios will be looking elsewhere.



    yeah but not having FCP7 importing is really a short term issue. Apple can solve it in two ways:

    - begin selling FCP7 licenses again so large film houses can buy extra seats if they need to for legacy projects

    - add an importing tool. software updates!!



    or, really, a 3rd party tool could come out as well. if apple doesn't do it, there will be a third party tool out there in less than 6 months to import FCP7 projects. they could charge hundreds because FCPX is cheap.



    "concerns about multi-cam, and many other features that disappeared overnight"



    nobody can think of any feature besides multicam that disappeared, and apple said they were bringing it back.



    i mean apple is essentially associated with disney and pixar through steve jobs, and if they really have complaints i would bet apple will address them very quickly
  • Reply 46 of 120
    akhomerunakhomerun Posts: 386member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Povilas View Post


    I will keep this for another 6 months or so and mail you personally then.



    yeah, i encourage that, actually. send me a PM at that time. i would be interested to know what the situation looks like.



    we'll probably both forget but hopefully that means that apple has this all sorted out and that it's not a big deal anymore.
  • Reply 47 of 120
    povilaspovilas Posts: 473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by newchannelmedia View Post


    FINALLY Adobe wakes up - about one week too late.



    I wrote to their CEO. I posted to discussion forums and comments pages all over the web. If you came across this, it was from me:



    "I still find it very hard to believe that the product marketing team at Adobe was not all over this from day one, trying to snatch away FCP users for Adobe Premier Pro which, I understand, is starting to see more attention from the industry.



    This is, potentially, a once in a [product] lifetime opportunity for Adobe to win market share from Apple for what has, in the past, been seen as an inferior product. Adobe has been investing heavily in their production offerings and Premier Pro is now a worthwhile product. The Adobe team MUST have been watching the FCPX launch closely, surely they saw the same snatched screen shots that everyone else saw.



    Why did they not have a massive campaign, ready to go, the day after Apple announced?



    This is a career-ruining faux-pas."





    Last time i tried Premiere Pro (MC) it choked importing video from camera.
  • Reply 48 of 120
    povilaspovilas Posts: 473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by akhomerun View Post


    yeah, i encourage that, actually. send me a PM at that time. i would be interested to know what the situation looks like.



    we'll probably both forget but hopefully that means that apple has this all sorted out and that it's not a big deal anymore.



    I won't forget, because i just added iCal reminder
  • Reply 49 of 120
    akhomerunakhomerun Posts: 386member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by newchannelmedia View Post


    FINALLY Adobe wakes up - about one week too late.



    I wrote to their CEO. I posted to discussion forums and comments pages all over the web. If you came across this, it was from me:



    "I still find it very hard to believe that the product marketing team at Adobe was not all over this from day one, trying to snatch away FCP users for Adobe Premier Pro which, I understand, is starting to see more attention from the industry.



    This is, potentially, a once in a [product] lifetime opportunity for Adobe to win market share from Apple for what has, in the past, been seen as an inferior product. Adobe has been investing heavily in their production offerings and Premier Pro is now a worthwhile product. The Adobe team MUST have been watching the FCPX launch closely, surely they saw the same snatched screen shots that everyone else saw.



    Why did they not have a massive campaign, ready to go, the day after Apple announced?



    This is a career-ruining faux-pas."





    i really think adobe has been surviving off their innovations from the past. it just shows you how amazing they really used to be.



    photoshop is so amazing that it basically still hasn't been duplicated. i think i could go back to CS2 or perhaps as far as 7.0 before i would have serious issues using it.



    flash...you can thank macromedia for that. adobe has...added video? gee i bet that was hard.



    PDFs....a defacto standard with no real alternative.



    I love how adobe is applauding Google for doing some coding for them, getting Flash ads to work in HTML5 devices like the iPhone. you might think that adobe would be hard at work making a converter so people would still make content in Flash and buy their expensive programs just to convert it to a non-flash format compatible with iPhone. but no, they had to wait for Google to do it for them in interest of maximizing ad revenue. because adobe doesn't seem to be capable of actually producing software anymore.
  • Reply 50 of 120
    akhomerunakhomerun Posts: 386member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Povilas View Post


    I won't forget, because i just added iCal reminder



    hah neat, i won't add a reminder, just for the surprise of getting a PM or message of some kind. as you might see i have been in AI for a while and i'm not the most active but i never really stop saying something once in a while around here. (and this whole FCPX issue leaves me somewhat vocal and opinionated for some reason. same way I felt about duke nukem forever getting bad reviews)



    something tells me apple is in panic mode about this and my prediction is, kind of like i said, that apple will have this issue resolved and FCP11 or X-2 or whatever will regain its FCP7-like status among professionals.



    or...maybe they would rather just sell a bunch of iphones.



    (as easy as consumer products can be as far as feature and complexity expectations, consumers switch products too much, so i think apple values its dedicated professional base immensely even though their revenue might not be such a large chunk of apple's revenues anymore)
  • Reply 51 of 120
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by woolie View Post


    A classic Microsoft response 10 years ago... I rest my case... Apple arrogance...



    Typical of a Microsoft user... still thinking of 10 years ago. I rest my case... Windows brute stupidity.
  • Reply 52 of 120
    jeffhrsnjeffhrsn Posts: 60member
    For the record...if you"re a video "professional" and you're still taking Adobe's garbage seriously, you need to rethink. Prove me wrong and tell me you use Premiere and post your annual income from editing gigs. Anyone??? Helllo out there! ANYONE?!!!! Didn't think so.
  • Reply 53 of 120
    dacloodacloo Posts: 890member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    ?You watch television to turn your brain off and you work on your computer when you want to turn your brain on.? ?Steve Jobs



    Computing for Jobs has always been about making things better and engaging your brain at all times. If Premiere is a safe heaven for your skills and you are unwilling to learn new paths then perhaps it is the platform for you.



    Nonsense post. Your quote hasn't anything to do with FCPX.

    It's not unwillingness. FCPX simply doesn't do what pros need. Yet.



    Problem is not execution (a brilliant new foundation) but marketing. They did a consumer trick by removing support and sales of FCPX and. They should have informed pros on their upgrade path of FCPX and they should have offered a trial and a much more detailed description/comparison of FCPX and FCP7.
  • Reply 54 of 120
    Of the 8 paragraphs in this article, only one (1) explicitly elaborating and including Adobe, which is the main subject title. WTF?
  • Reply 55 of 120
    applesauce007applesauce007 Posts: 1,609member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by newchannelmedia View Post


    I appreciate your thoughts but think that you are over-simplifying the situation. I know of major studios such as Paramount, that have a significant investment in FCP - products, hardware and skills. They have massive archives of FCP files that, now, cannot be transferred to FCPX. This is not just about individual FCP users being stubborn old farts - this is a major, enterprise-level challenge. FCPX is clearly NOT years ahead else it there would be no concerns about backward compatibility, multi-cam support, and many other features which have disappeared overnight. Sure, if you are producing YouTube videos or stuff to upload to Facebook, FCPX is probably perfect. But if you want to produce the next Social Network, I strongly suspect that studios will be looking elsewhere.



    OK. So there are issues...but...here is an FAQ http://www.apple.com/finalcutpro/faq/



    * Apple said they will fix the importing issue with an update soon.

    * Plug-ins that don't work now will eventually be updated to support FCP X.

    * Multi-cam support will come.

    * The software architecture of FCP X will allow for huge and insanely great improvements in the future.



    Adobe can do what ever they want but they know that they're toast.



    I still say that studios that are crazy enough to ignore FCP X will lose big time. Especially if they have a massive of FCP projects already.



    You see, for 300/400 bucks a lot of small shops will have of the editing power of the major studios. There are a lot of talented up and coming students who will take advantage of FCP X and start releasing short films and shows and podcasts in the new internet era. It's a brave new world and the big old dogs at the major studios who are foolish enough to reject FCP X will lose in the long term.



    The future of media consumption? http://www.apple.com/ipad/#now Like it or not, gotta deal with it!



    Time will tell.
  • Reply 56 of 120
    firefly7475firefly7475 Posts: 1,502member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by september11th View Post


    I was thinking about this today.



    Going from FCP7 to FCPX is a major change, literally asking everyone to relearn a new editing program. It is not FCP, it is simply a new program. Had another company put this out, it would likely fail. Adobe Premiere is more similar to FCP7 than FCPX is.. and having been a FCP user for many years, if I had to choose one right now, I would go to Adobe. Their production suite is now a better solution than FCPX. Even if they add some of the features back, I really think Apple has screwed themselves.



    Apple haven't screwed themselves at all. FCPX may as well be a huge neon sign stating "This is the direction Apple are heading".



    There was once a time when Apple's core product strength was supplying tools for a loyal userbase of dedicated creative professionals. That boat has long since sailed.



    Apple is now a consumer electronics company, providing devices for everyone from 5 year old kids to your grandmother.



    Every pro that Apple pissed off with the FCPX release will be replaced by another 100 aspiring kids cutting videos for YouTube.
  • Reply 57 of 120
    robogoborobogobo Posts: 378member
    The only mistake apple made was to discontinue support for fcp7. Bad idea. So if they bring that back, problem solved. Major redesigns and overhauls need time to iron out the kinks and get up to speed. Most pros don't adopt a new release until it's proven in the field. This is certainly true of major studios. The majority of people who are trying fcpx and complaining about it are semi pro and amateurs. That doesn't make the problems less significant, but this is how it always goes. Give it a few months and all will be fine in movie land.
  • Reply 58 of 120
    This debacle shows just how much SJ has dropped the ball when it comes to Mac OS and its dependents (software and customers).



    Too much effort has been expended on Steve's toys with limited functionality. A Desktop PC is still required for heavy-lifting in all departments and every effort should be made to ensure this platform remains fit for purpose.



    FCPX has all the wrong attributes of OS X Lion. If Apple wants to drop this type of appliance it should do so with grace and honesty.



    Just make a statement that Apple are no longer in the business of supplying professional level computers and leave it up to their professional competitors to make superior Desktop PC's for several times less profit.
  • Reply 59 of 120
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,271member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bloodshotrollin'red View Post


    This debacle shows just how much SJ has dropped the ball when it comes to Mac OS and its dependents (software and customers).



    Too much effort has been expended on Steve's toys with limited functionality. A Desktop PC is still required for heavy-lifting in all departments and every effort should be made to ensure this platform remains fit for purpose.



    FCPX has all the wrong attributes of OS X Lion. If Apple wants to drop this type of appliance it should do so with grace and honesty.



    Just make a statement that Apple are no longer in the business of supplying professional level computers and leave it up to their professional competitors to make superior Desktop PC's for several times less profit.



    No FCPX once again shows that Apple is not about following the status quo and it's a company that can be decisive. What you're seeing now are just the teething pains of a new product. In a couple of years the FCPX installations will be double what they are today regardless of on whether you call the editors professionals or prosumers.



    FCPX isn't easy or dumbed down..in fact many Editors don't seem to understand where stuff has moved to. Not all is missing...the room has just be rearranged a bit.



    If the "other" side was doing it so well the migration would have happened a while ago.
  • Reply 60 of 120
    jnjnjnjnjnjn Posts: 588member
    As we say in Holland: it's a "storm in een glas water".



    J.
Sign In or Register to comment.