Adobe continues assault on Apple's Final Cut Pro X with 'switcher program'

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  • Reply 21 of 150
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,527member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by WelshDog View Post


    Yeah this little item right here is what Abobe will make the most of. Premiere reads FCP 7 projects and FCP X does not. And Apple says they are not going to bother with it. All most editors would want is a way to import an EDL or XML of their timeline with cuts and dissolves and maybe layers without effects. If Apple could manage to offer this simple path a lot of people would be more open to X.



    Apple said " As a result, the ability to import projects from older versions of Final Cut will not be coming to the latest release."



    The latest release is the first release of FCPX or the current release of FCP7 -- if export changes are needed.



    Apple did not say they are not working on it!



    See my prior post about the findings published in Mac Magazine Brazil.



    Also, a new plugin SDK has been published and there is a lot of activity among developers rewriting their effects plugins for 64-bit OCL/GCD for FCPX.



    So, it is possible that what you are asking for -- will appear within months.
  • Reply 22 of 150
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 2,482member
    Look folks -- I love Apple. But Apple doesn't handle pro/business users well at all and this FCPX situation is a prime example. It's not that Apple "doesn't care" about pro users. If they didn't care about pro users, then they wouldn't have bothered making FCPX 64-bit, nor would they have invested in technologies like GCD and Thunderbolt (which really are only relevant to pro users).



    The issue is that Apple's (more specifically, Steve Jobs) approach to communication with customers and dealing with transitions from old to new technology cause real problems for pro and business users. And the funny thing is that it wouldn't take very much at all to fix this. All Apple had to do was provide clarity about what this new product is and what it will become over time, while continuing to sell and support version 7. If they had simply handled this transition in the same way that they handled the transition from OS9 to OSX, they wouldn't be facing this sh!tstorm.



    When Jobs finally retires from Apple, there are many great things about him that will be missed. But there will also be some things that won't be missed, and his handling of pro/business users is one of those things.
  • Reply 23 of 150
    welshdogwelshdog Posts: 1,784member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post




    So, it is possible that what you are asking for -- will appear within months.



    That would be outstanding.
  • Reply 24 of 150
    groovetubegroovetube Posts: 557member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sranger View Post


    They would be extremely stupid not to take advantage of the situation as ANY company would....



    of course. I recall getting fc in a similar promotion from apple, sending them my premier cd and serial number and getting fc.



    It comes full circle!
  • Reply 25 of 150
    akhomerunakhomerun Posts: 386member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alien987 View Post


    So Apple deliberately blocking Flash in iPhones and iPads is a better culture? People should be able to choose whatever they want, no what one person wants.



    My Adobe plugins STILL crash. Apple did the world a favor.



    They saw that Adobe Flash didn't meet their standards of performance and they saw that plugins were the cause of most web browser crashing on Mac desktops, and saw HTML5 as the future.



    I'm glad Apple blocked Adobe from placing Flash on the iPhone, because I have an Android phone that can never support flash due to the processor.



    By making HTML5 and MP4 the standard I can enjoy mobile videos with minimal overhead and load and view web pages quickly without my browser crashing.



    I can only imagine if I had to watch online videos using mobile flash. My battery life would be horrible!



    Apple was the first to leave behind the floppy drive, serial/parallel ports, and they routinely leave behind software that's old and shouldn't be used any longer.



    The problem with letting the end users decide what they want is because they are like you and don't like change. Remember how many people got mad about the Windows XP start menu being different? Nobody else in the PC industry is as daring as Apple to make leaps of faith. Apple took the risk by not including Flash but the market also realized that it didn't need flash. The iPhone beat all the odds, Apple changed the way cell phone companies treat phone makers completely, while providing a phone that didn't have many features of a traditional phone or smartphone. They ditched the keyboard and even the stylus.



    The typical anti-Apple complaint is "Apple doesn't give me a choice." That's not true. Apple makes a choice, takes a bigger risk than the rest of the industry, and then the customer chooses whether he/she wants to go in the same direction. Another example, iPhones and iPods don't have removable storage. Almost EVERY other competitor does. Obviously, the consumer doesn't really care! Has my micro-SD card ever left my Android phone? NO! So that's an extra mechanism that I paid for that I don't need. It was almost like Apple has a crystal ball and figured out that I was going to be getting and storing most of my information online!! What a concept.



    The iPhone didn't succeed because Apple is cool and trendy and iPods were already all the rage. To beat all those odds I mentioned above it had to be great, and it was. It was nearly the best consumer device ever made.



    Apple's approach can yield failures, but those can always be corrected. FCPX is a great example of one of these (short term) failures, and Apple has many times released products that are essentially a re-imagination of a great idea they had previously (G4 cube -> mac mini, newton -> iphone, current iMac form factor -> 20th anniversary mac, macintosh -> imac)



    Adobe themselves are developing ways to convert flash to HTML5 because they know flash is 100% dead within 5 years. Go here and tell me you still think Flash is worth a damn.



    http://chrysaora.com/ This is one of my favorite chrome experiments. This runs at 50FPS on my system...you think Flash could do that?



    Another great one
  • Reply 26 of 150
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,527member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


    This is excellent news. Apple really need to get their PR act in order on this one as well as remove the EOL on 7 for now at least.



    Yeah!



    But, by making THE FCPX announcement the way the did, Apple got everyone's attention! you either need to move ahead with Apple or move away -- You can't stay with FCP7 forever!



    Now, gracious and attentive Apple can say:



    "We listened to our customers and have:



    1) Added features to allow you to import FCP7 projects into FCPX



    2) Given additional transition time by extending FCP7 support



    Sound Familiar?
  • Reply 27 of 150
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,426member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    Yeah!



    But, by making THE FCPX announcement the way the did, Apple got everyone's attention! you either need to move ahead with Apple or move away -- You can't stay with FCP7 forever!



    Now, gracious and attentive Apple can say:



    "We listened to our customers and have:



    1) Added features to allow you to import FCP7 projects into FCPX



    2) Given additional transition time by extending FCP7 support



    Sound Familiar?



    Well said. It is an easy fix you'd think from a PR stance. I'd even add maybe Apple look at updating 7 as an alternative to the "most stuff is done for you" paradigm as in X. This all assuming Apple want the pros. I have to wonder. BTW I have now spent the last week working around the clock in X and watching every training video there is. It is great but frustratingly automated at times. Of course I have many thousands of hours in FCP versions prior to this so it will take longer to truly get to grips.
  • Reply 28 of 150
    kovacmkovacm Posts: 57member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alien987 View Post


    So Apple deliberately blocking Flash in iPhones and iPads is a better culture? People should be able to choose whatever they want, no what one person wants.







    it is really funny that, even after 4 years, somebody still write something about Flash on mobile device... FORGET IT!



    First, Daniel Eran Dilger, wrote about Flash on mobile devices, later Steve Jobs (more or less) wrote same thing about Flash in open letter... and some ppl still can not accept it:



    "The first day we had the TouchPad, we were browsing the Internet with a few native and downloaded apps open: Facebook, Adobe Reader, Quell, Evernote, and a couple of browser windows. We clicked a Flash video to play it, but the browser appeared not to respond. Figuring it just needed a few seconds, we went back to the home screen and opened a browser window to visit an IRC chatroom. Nothing in that browser window would respond, and then a notification popped up: "Memory critical too many cards!""



    http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/revie...d-review.ars/3



    enjoy in your digital life !
  • Reply 29 of 150
    mrstepmrstep Posts: 478member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Blastdoor View Post


    Look folks -- I love Apple. But Apple doesn't handle pro/business users well at all and this FCPX situation is a prime example. It's not that Apple "doesn't care" about pro users. If they didn't care about pro users, then they wouldn't have bothered making FCPX 64-bit, nor would they have invested in technologies like GCD and Thunderbolt (which really are only relevant to pro users).



    The issue is that Apple's (more specifically, Steve Jobs) approach to communication with customers and dealing with transitions from old to new technology cause real problems for pro and business users. And the funny thing is that it wouldn't take very much at all to fix this. All Apple had to do was provide clarity about what this new product is and what it will become over time, while continuing to sell and support version 7. If they had simply handled this transition in the same way that they handled the transition from OS9 to OSX, they wouldn't be facing this sh!tstorm.



    When Jobs finally retires from Apple, there are many great things about him that will be missed. But there will also be some things that won't be missed, and his handling of pro/business users is one of those things.



    Agreed - I'm sort of happy to see them get a bit of negative feedback on something like this. I have shares and don't want to see them get so ahead of themselves in telling people what they want that nobody actually wants it any more.



    Oh, the ability to at least import your old projects? How about we just sell the new software cheaper. Huh? You could easily have an import tool with a disclaimer that because of differences in how media is handled, some items might not come across cleanly. Hell, open a 'here's stuff that didn't make it' list like in a Pages import.
  • Reply 30 of 150
    see flatsee flat Posts: 145member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by fecklesstechguy View Post


    And Adobe falls all over themselves to try and take advantage. This speaks volumes about the culture at Adobe I think...





    Apple actually had the same campaign when they brought out final cut. I remember sending in my original Premier disc. Dont remember what the discount was, but it was huge.
  • Reply 31 of 150
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kovacm View Post






    it is really funny that, even after 4 years, somebody still write something about Flash on mobile device... FORGET IT!



    First, Daniel Eran Dilger, wrote about Flash on mobile devices, later Steve Jobs (more or less) wrote same thing about Flash in open letter... and some ppl still can not accept it:



    Hey Google accepted it apparently. The new Swiffy converter works surprisingly well if you want to convert a small Flash file into a large HTML5 file in order to view on iOS.
  • Reply 32 of 150
    addisonaddison Posts: 1,185member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alien987 View Post


    So Apple deliberately blocking Flash in iPhones and iPads is a better culture? People should be able to choose whatever they want, no what one person wants.



    If you put flash on an iPhone or iPad it will lose its battery power so fast people will say "the iPhone is useless it only lasts 2 hours or whatever" Apple do not want their reputation to be damaged by allowing an application that eats processor cycles and runs the battery flat.
  • Reply 33 of 150
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alien987 View Post


    So Apple deliberately blocking Flash in iPhones and iPads is a better culture? People should be able to choose whatever they want, no what one person wants.



    I'm sure you have your reasons when it comes to why you said what you did, but I'm running the latest version of Flash and it causes havoc on my Mac Pro, with 8-cores. There's not a snowballs chance in hell that I want flash on my 3GS that has only one.



    When it comes to Adobe going after users pissed off at Apple due to Final Cut Pro X, I have no problem with it. Those people were on the fence to begin with. If anything, most people will simply return to their prior version of FCP and wait for Apple to address concerns. The one concern people are just going to have to get over is the legacy workflow thing. Technology advances, and always will. There are people legitimately disconcerted with their Carbon apps no longer being supported too because those apps are either the only thing that they can use, or they are too stuck with that program to try something new. It happens.



    Hearing people complain about FCP X is similar to my listening my dad complain endlessly when "Regular" (leaded) fuel was discontinued. It's my personal belief that Apple releases software too soon. I know everyone always replies, "well if they didn't release it without some problems, they'd never release anything." I understand that, but I also think that if they are going to attach the word "Pro" to something, that they'd better take the extra time to really make sure that everything is addressed so that they don't have problems like they are currently dealing with. The software wasn't mature enough from what people are saying (because I don't use it) who use FCP day in and day out. Adobe saw their opportunity, and they are going for it. It's business, and business is brutal.
  • Reply 34 of 150
    antinousantinous Posts: 25member
    This is still a conversation about what Apple (unbidden) decided to do with Final Cut. It's their product and they can do what they want, but I think someone high on the ladder at Apple has become wholly disconnected with their Final Cut user base. To have one's hard-earned skills are blithely rendered worthless is certainly worth a pout. I've seen several ageist references in other threads to "old dogs" not wanting to learn new tricks. I don't think that's germane. We're still expected to keep our workflow at pace while learning "What's New" with each iteration of a software package. When "What's New" is every damned thing in the box it looks like someone at Apple has gone insane. It will be interesting to see how it plays out. I don't think a few third-party plugins will fix this farrago.
  • Reply 35 of 150
    rot'napplerot'napple Posts: 1,839member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by fecklesstechguy View Post


    And Adobe falls all over themselves to try and take advantage. This speaks volumes about the culture at Adobe I think...



    Okay, as your signature says, I'll document so I won't be a dumba$$ but rather a smart one...



    It's not Adobe's culture. It's a business culture! The masses went with PC and Microsoft OS, which we all know has it's problems. What did Apple do? According to you, fall all over themselves to try and take advantage with their "Switcher" campaign. I'd like to think Apple was a company in the business of selling their great computers and a crappy PC OS presented them with an opportunity.



    A little nostalgia never hurts either....



    apple.com/switch



    Apple's Switcher Promotion - Ellen Feis



    Apple's Switcher Promotion - Jamie Porsche



    Apple's Switcher Promotion - Andy the cop... Hey, you spell his last name!

    /

    /

    /
  • Reply 36 of 150
    Sounds great except for one tiny issue. Premiere has never been a decent video app itself, let alone a pro video app. Leave toy town for baby land, so what exactly is their point?



    ... cutting your current job, on target for the deadline, know your edit tools inside out? Change your entire edit suite mid job, don't worry, it'll import the file... cause you are a pro and that's what pro's do.



    at 50% off you'll be able to afford to cop the late penalties from the client as you deal with the disclaimed bugs and unique scenarios we never thought of. After you finish just think of the down time that will come from being bad mouthed for delaying the project as quality time to learn your new software! That's right, built in training while you wait for people to forget what a dick you were.



    Yah!
  • Reply 37 of 150
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,527member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


    BTW I have now spent the last week working around the clock in X and watching every training video there is. It is great but frustratingly automated at times. Of course I have many thousands of hours in FCP versions prior to this so it will take longer to truly get to grips.



    That's what I plan to do over the holiday weekend. I have, likely, 1-2 thousand hours with FCP.



    FCPX certainly is different -- things work differently (by default) and are in different places!



    But there are some great new features too -- the "To Do Markers" for instance.



    I love the shift-z shortcut to make the entire storyline fit the window.



    I have found that you can do things the old way, kinda', -- for example drag (or lift) a clip above the storyline and have it not be attached to the story line. When the storyline length is changed, the unattached clips remain where they are (now, out of synch with the storyline) -- just like FCP7. I haven't figured out why you'd want to do this... but you can do it.





    Just as a teaser:



    I read some where that iOS has ProRes codecs built-in. Also, the AVFoundation framework that gives FCPX its performance was developed for iOS then ported back to Mac OS X.



    You can edit h.264 clips, effortlessly, on the iPad or iPhone using iMove -- try that on FCP7 on a Mac.



    A lot of the FCPX constructs are supersets of the corresponding iMovie constructs.



    Here's one user's idea off a "StoryTelling Dream Tool"







    StoryTelling Dream tool...





    Is that the FCP timeline you see on the Wacom tablet?





    Wouldn't it be great if you could multitouch edit in FCPX?





    Probably gonna' need a bigger iPad, though, with ThunderBolt
  • Reply 38 of 150
    applezillaapplezilla Posts: 941member
    Premiere is such a convoluted, mediocre program.



    And CS 5.5 is such a weak update. It should have been a half price upgrade.



    Adobe is reminding me of Quark these days. They too, sound desperate.
  • Reply 39 of 150
    conrailconrail Posts: 489member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by akhomerun View Post


    The problem with letting the end users decide what they want is because they are like you and don't like change. Remember how many people got mad about the Windows XP start menu being different? Nobody else in the PC industry is as daring as Apple to make leaps of faith. Apple took the risk by not including Flash but the market also realized that it didn't need flash. The iPhone beat all the odds, Apple changed the way cell phone companies treat phone makers completely, while providing a phone that didn't have many features of a traditional phone or smartphone. They ditched the keyboard and even the stylus.



    The typical anti-Apple complaint is "Apple doesn't give me a choice." That's not true. Apple makes a choice, takes a bigger risk than the rest of the industry, and then the customer chooses whether he/she wants to go in the same direction. Another example, iPhones and iPods don't have removable storage. Almost EVERY other competitor does. Obviously, the consumer doesn't really care! Has my micro-SD card ever left my Android phone? NO! So that's an extra mechanism that I paid for that I don't need. It was almost like Apple has a crystal ball and figured out that I was going to be getting and storing most of my information online!! What a concept.



    The iPhone didn't succeed because Apple is cool and trendy and iPods were already all the rage. To beat all those odds I mentioned above it had to be great, and it was. It was nearly the best consumer device ever made.



    Apple's approach can yield failures, but those can always be corrected. FCPX is a great example of one of these (short term) failures, and Apple has many times released products that are essentially a re-imagination of a great idea they had previously (G4 cube -> mac mini, newton -> iphone, current iMac form factor -> 20th anniversary mac, macintosh -> imac)



    You really should read some of the criticisms regarding FCP X from the pro community before going off like this. The functionality loss in FCP is the equivalent of taking kerning and indenting out of Word. Doesn't make it non-functional, but can't perform tasks that are required for certain users, and the loss of these functions serves no logical purpose. It has nothing to do with fear of change or silly interface changes.



    What's so hard to understand about this?
  • Reply 40 of 150
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cy_starkman View Post


    Sounds great except for one tiny issue. Premiere has never been a decent video app itself, let alone a pro video app.



    Premiere really "grew up" the last couple versions while FCP essentially stayed the same for the last 4 years. What pros really are sick of is waiting on Apple to deliver what they wanted—64 bit support, native file import, etc. So this migration really started about 2 years ago after FCP 7 came out with virtually no new versions. The sensible thing to do at that time was to assume Apple was really hard at work on an "awesome" version of FCP, at least that's what the rumor mill had mentioned.



    The nail in the coffin was not even be able to bring in old files. It would be like if when Adobe moved Photoshop to 64-bit they said "well print is dead so we're killing cmyk support, layers, and the ability to open old projects."



    At least by moving to Premiere you would be still be able to open old FCP projects and work a lot of faster. You can even customize the keyboard shortcuts to be FCP shortcuts.
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