Lawsuit accuses Missouri Apple Store of race, gender discrimination

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 122
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gmcalpin View Post


    I posted a link to it. It's 47% black, 45% white. So Apple's 8% ratio is way off.



    This attitude is so off. My best friend and I worked at an upscale clothing retail store and she complained to me that we were the only gay people there. She thought that the fact that the store did not have exactly 10% gay employees that the store was homophobic even though she was a manager and we went out with the other managers all the time.



    When I suggested that it may be that not a lot of gay people were applying, she said that was even worse because it meant people must KNOW we were homophobes and not even want to apply.



    Some people will always believe they are being persecuted.
  • Reply 22 of 122
    alladdinnalladdinn Posts: 60member
    Your conclusion is "numerical" not factual. Do you have an axe to grind perhaps?
  • Reply 23 of 122
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    I find this interesting because there is a large number of African Americans at my place of work, along with a bunch of other minorities. Generally the staff does not throw in the race card.



    As to people melting down and blaming everybody but themselves that is not the domain of anyone race. Believe me, I've seen al sorts of people slip off the edge over the years. Frankly some never make it back.



    This discussion is sort of related to the frame of mind that some have about Apples Chinese contractors. People go about stretching the facts as much as they can to promote the idea that the factories are causing suicides for example. Yet they forget that in their own back yards people have taken their own lives. The difference is they blame the person here and not the company they work for.







    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hamiltonrrwatch View Post


    Being black myself, I see a lot of black people throw the race card into everything. As my mother used to say, look for anything long enough and you'll find it...or invent it



  • Reply 24 of 122
    alladdinnalladdinn Posts: 60member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gmcalpin View Post


    I posted a link to it. It's 47% black, 45% white. So Apple's 8% ratio is way off.



    And whites very often find light-skinned blacks less intimidating or threatening than dark-skinned blacks, and lighter-skinned blacks are often considered more beautiful by whites, because they have "whiter" features. That's not puzzling or surprising if you've ever actually worked with or talked with black people? or any minorities, really? about this subject.



    They say statistics are for losers, again, do you have an axe to grind?
  • Reply 25 of 122
    alladdinnalladdinn Posts: 60member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tigernetic View Post


    I've shopped at this store regularly since 2006, and have a pretty good idea who this plaintiff is. If I do, her inability to deal with difficult customers is not the only reason she would've been passed up.



    Most of the staff as a whole has been fantastic and I've worked with Proffer a few times (concerning exchanges of defective MacBooks and in the course of spending almost $10,000 there). I've never detected any issues with racial bias there, and this is from someone who is at that store at least once a month. The court can dig into the nitty gritty, but my guess is that this is a severe overreach from someone creating an excuse to justify her lack of performance.



    Law suits are often used as the fast track to wealth and position. An attempt for the "unearned."
  • Reply 26 of 122
    tinman0tinman0 Posts: 168member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gmcalpin View Post


    I posted a link to it. It's 47% black, 45% white. So Apple's 8% ratio is way off.



    Wonder what the racial breakdown of Apple's customers in that store are?



    We can all play this "race game by numbers".
  • Reply 27 of 122
    prof. peabodyprof. peabody Posts: 2,860member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    ... That is why I think anybody complaining about any sort of discrimination should have to submit to a mental evaluation. Frankly there is a mental component to much of this. ...



    This statement goes way too far IMO.

    I think you are either going off the deep end in an attempt to make your point, or you are a strong racist (or at least inclined that way) yourself.



    Black people *are* discriminated against by the white folks, as are gays and asians and all kinds of other groups. It *does* happen and not everyone who makes a complaint is crazy. They certainly shouldn't just be immediately assumed to be so without any evidence whatsoever.



    The last story on Apple Insider that covered the racism topic was those two "gangstas" that got thrown out of the Apple store for looking like crooks. Only going *slightly* below the surface on that one revealed all kinds of indications why the persons in question were making a big deal out of essentially nothing. In other words, their case falls apart on even the most cursory examination.



    In this case on the other hand, (even though it may also turn out to be nothing in the end), all the details the lady is able to give seem to prop up her assertions.



    Given that there is *nothing* in what this woman is saying (at least that we know about so far) that is questionable or unreasonable or unbelievable, the fact that you immediately dismiss it out of hand kind of smacks of racism.



    You have no rational basis to disbelieve her, yet you do, and vehemently.



    The USA is one of the most racist countries on Earth, if not the most racist. It's not *that * unlikely that what she says is true.
  • Reply 28 of 122
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post


    I know this because the diversity across Apple's Campus is a true melting pot. They promote capability, professionalism, intelligence and talent in the position you hold and want to achieve.



    This is true of most big corporations these days. However that is a goal or ideal they would like to achieve, corporation however are made up of people and people can often stray from the party line.

    Quote:



    If only the rest of the US was as ethnically diverse as Apple we wouldn't have a Tea Party



    don't you mean the Democratic Party?
    Quote:

    that is chalk full of fundamentalists, bigots, fanatics and shallow thinkers.



    You see you demonstrate the same sort of ignorance that you accuses the Team Party members of being involved in. Frankly it is pretty easy to demonstrate that those in the Democratic Party are shallow ignorant thinkers, self centered, thieves, lazy and not concerned about the welfare of their fellow man. In fact one could easy see the parties name being changed to the Lazy No Good Thieves Party with the result that it would be a more accurate name.



    In any event it doesn't support your point to fall into the same behavior you are trying to use as a negative indicator.
  • Reply 29 of 122
    Oh cry me a river.

    I'm not advancing, so lets play the race and gender card.

    Really?

    good luck to you when you have no job and no one else will hire you because of this lawsuit.

    Oh wait, that is your plan isn't it? Sue Apple and live off the money.

    my bad.
  • Reply 30 of 122
    ronboronbo Posts: 669member
    ... or maybe she's just an asshole. I've heard that made promotion difficult too.
  • Reply 31 of 122
    tcphototcphoto Posts: 65member
    There was enough evidence for the EEOC to allow the employee to pursue a lawsuit. I grew up in St. Louis and the racial demographics can change greatly from one community to another. Is Apple simply employing people or are they committed to training professionals? If the Manager only documents an employees positive attributes, is he or she doing the employee a disservice by not giving them constructive criticism on things that they can work on in order to progress within Apples system? Let's give her the benefit of the doubt until all the facts are revealed.
  • Reply 32 of 122
    blackbookblackbook Posts: 1,361member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post


    This statement goes way too far IMO.

    I think you are either going off the deep end in an attempt to make your point, or you are a strong racist (or at least inclined that way) yourself.



    Black people *are* discriminated against by the white folks, as are gays and asians and all kinds of other groups. It *does* happen and not everyone who makes a complaint is crazy. They certainly shouldn't just be immediately assumed to be so without any evidence whatsoever.



    The last story on Apple Insider that covered the racism topic was those two "gangstas" that got thrown out of the Apple store for looking like crooks. Only going *slightly* below the surface on that one revealed all kinds of indications why the persons in question were making a big deal out of essentially nothing. In other words, their case falls apart on even the most cursory examination.



    In this case on the other hand, (even though it may also turn out to be nothing in the end), all the details the lady is able to give seem to prop up her assertions.



    Given that there is *nothing* in what this woman is saying (at least that we know about so far) that is questionable or unreasonable or unbelievable, the fact that you immediately dismiss it out of hand kind of smacks of racism.



    You have no rational basis to disbelieve her, yet you do, and vehemently.



    The USA is one of the most racist countries on Earth, if not the most racist. It's not *that * unlikely that what she says is true.



    Great posts.



    I for one am not going to write this case off as many of you have and I believe its racist of some of you to quickly call this fine girl names claiming that the Apple store was most likely in the right. I believe that her claims could be true and I hope that she finds the justice she deserves. If her claims aren't true, I hope that her case begins to shine a light on the issue of racism in high end retail such as Apple stores.
  • Reply 33 of 122
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post


    This statement goes way too far IMO.

    I think you are either going off the deep end in an attempt to make your point, or you are a strong racist (or at least inclined that way) yourself.



    What deep end, people mental state is and has been used in courts of law for years. Heck if you are far enough off the deep end you can get away with murder. This has nothing to do with race and frankly would nip a bunch of these lawsuits in the butt.

    Quote:

    Black people *are* discriminated against by the white folks, as are gays and asians and all kinds of other groups. It *does* happen and not everyone who makes a complaint is crazy. They certainly shouldn't just be immediately assumed to be so without any evidence whatsoever.



    Ah but there is evidence that people have mental issues and if that is the case it should impact how a lawsuit goes forward.

    Quote:

    The last story on Apple Insider that covered the racism topic was those two "gangstas" that got thrown out of the Apple store for looking like crooks. Only going *slightly* below the surface on that one revealed all kinds of indications why the persons in question were making a big deal out of essentially nothing. In other words, their case falls apart on even the most cursory examination.



    As might this one, we don't know yet. The whole point of forcing these people into mental examines is that it can effectively weed out those that are having issues from those that are suffering from real discrimination.



    You see I have no illusions about discrimination, harassment and the like, I've seen it myself. At the same time I've seen many cases where people simply don't grasp how far out of the norm they are.

    Quote:

    In this case on the other hand, (even though it may also turn out to be nothing in the end), all the details the lady is able to give seem to prop up her assertions.



    Actually nothing I've heard works in her defense. You either are reading between the lines or know something the rest of us don't know. For me this is a classic example of somebody that for what ever reason can't adapt to the expected behavior in the work place. Now we can speculate as to why but lets face it if the store feels they are loosing customers because of her then I have to wonder why she even works there anymore.

    Quote:

    Given that there is *nothing* in what this woman is saying (at least that we know about so far) that is questionable or unreasonable or unbelievable, the fact that you immediately dismiss it out of hand kind of smacks of racism.



    This is very ignorant of you as you have twice called me racists with absolutely no justification. Everything I've seen says she has no credibility what so ever. Obviously you are biasing your reading of this article, because everything I've seen says this woman has a huge issue dealing with people.

    Quote:

    You have no rational basis to disbelieve her, yet you do, and vehemently.



    Did you red the article? It has all the indicators I need to judge what is going on. That could certainly change with more info but it is interesting you are the only one here defending her with any vigor.



    Look again at the article and explain to me how you would support this woman. Honestly she is stretching things to the limit to try to make a case. References to a baseball cap is just one item that condemns her to the looney tunes bin.



    I say looney tunes because if she was trying to rationally make something up she would have documentation. Instead she has a complaint that rambles on and is incoherent.

    Quote:

    The USA is one of the most racist countries on Earth, if not the most racist. It's not *that * unlikely that what she says is true.



    Actually I'd have to say that you are way off base here. You need to travel to other countries to really get a flavor for racism.



    As to what she says it might be true in her mind but I suspect nobody else even comes close to believing her. It has all the markings of somebody complaining about their job and not getting what the responsibilities and personal characteristics are required to be successful. In other words she is living in a dream land.
  • Reply 34 of 122
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by blackbook View Post


    Great posts.



    I for one am not going to write this case off as many of you have and I believe its racist of some of you to quickly call this fine girl names claiming that the Apple store was most likely in the right. I believe that her claims could be true and I hope that she finds the justice she deserves.



    Look at what the woman has written and referenced. If that is your idea of a fine girl then you have some very serious issues you need to work out. Of course you won't go back and look closely at what was written as you have already made up your mind that she is a fine girl.



    By the way you can take all references to race out of the posting and come to the same conclusion. It has nothing to do with racism and simply is an example of a person that can't grasp what is required of them to be successful. It is seen all the time in the work place and has nothing to do with racism.



    In any event I will urge you one more time to read carefully what is written in the article and more specifically what she is alleged to have said. If you think she is a fine girl then you really need to spend some time thinking about how you came to that conclusion. Here is the thing; most stores would have zero tolerance to somebody pissing off customers, so in my mind it looks like this store went out of its way to try to turn her in the right direction. So in reality they are getting screwed over buy this woman for trying to help her out.



    Frankly this is a really sad commentary on the state of America.
  • Reply 35 of 122
    mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    This is an interesting post:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by blackbook View Post


    Great posts.



    I for one am not going to write this case off as many of you have and I believe its racist of some of you to quickly call this fine girl names claiming that the Apple store was most likely in the right. I believe that her claims could be true and I hope that she finds the justice she deserves. If her claims aren't true, I hope that her case begins to shine a light on the issue of racism in high end retail such as Apple stores.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by blackbook View Post


    I for one am not going to write this case off as many of you have



    While I agree that the claim should not be automatically dismissed and further information is required to make an informed judgement here. You then turn around and seem to do the same thing:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by blackbook View Post


    I believe its racist of some of you to quickly call this fine girl names claiming that the Apple store was most likely in the right.



    You make unwarranted assumptions about those dismissing the claims.



    But it's your last statement that's most interesting:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by blackbook View Post


    If her claims aren't true, I hope that her case begins to shine a light on the issue of racism in high end retail such as Apple stores.



    You are saying that if her claims are not true, if she's either mistaken in her perceptions or deliberately making a false accusation then you hope this will "shine a light on the issue of racism in high end retail such as Apple stores" which would appear to not have happened if her claims aren't true.
  • Reply 36 of 122
    blackbookblackbook Posts: 1,361member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    Look at what the woman has written and referenced. If that is your idea of a fine girl then you have some very serious issues you need to work out. Of course you won't go back and look closely at what was written as you have already made up your mind that she is a fine girl.



    By the way you can take all references to race out of the posting and come to the same conclusion. It has nothing to do with racism and simply is an example of a person that can't grasp what is required of them to be successful. It is seen all the time in the work place and has nothing to do with racism.



    In any event I will urge you one more time to read carefully what is written in the article and more specifically what she is alleged to have said. If you think she is a fine girl then you really need to spend some time thinking about how you came to that conclusion. Here is the thing; most stores would have zero tolerance to somebody pissing off customers, so in my mind it looks like this store went out of its way to try to turn her in the right direction. So in reality they are getting screwed over buy this woman for trying to help her out.



    Frankly this is a really sad commentary on the state of America.



    I don't see anything that she said that would clearly show you that has mental problems. I think it's interesting that in the 3 years she's worked there no minorities have had any promotions. It could be a coincidence or it could be a real legitimate issue going on.
  • Reply 37 of 122
    Apple, the new Abercrombie and Fitch. Well, I could be wrong but until recently I have not seen many minorities in Apple advertisements. Just shiny happy snowboarders, or mountain climbers, or people at the beach.



    Personally, I believe her story. Not that Apple per se is bad, but in this case the store may have had such a policy or problem with minorities.
  • Reply 38 of 122
    blackbookblackbook Posts: 1,361member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post


    You are saying that if her claims are not true, if she's either mistaken in her perceptions or deliberately making a false accusation then you hope this will "shine a light on the issue of racism in high end retail such as Apple stores" which would appear to not have happened if her claims aren't true.



    The case making headlines and being in the news is itself shining the light on the issue.
  • Reply 39 of 122
    myapplelovemyapplelove Posts: 1,515member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post


    Apple, the new Abercrombie and Fitch. Well, I could be wrong but until recently I have not seen many minorities in Apple advertisements. Just shiny happy snowboarders, or mountain climbers, or people at the beach.



    Personally, I believe her story. Not that Apple per se is bad, but in this case the store may have had such a policy or problem with minorities.



    Rubbish
  • Reply 40 of 122
    myapplelovemyapplelove Posts: 1,515member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by blackbook View Post


    The case making headlines and being in the news is itself shining the light on the issue.



    Boy, verbose no? Shinning the light, haha...
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